Hot damn: Dell to preinstall Linux

Tony:

Microsoft has put a bunch of parallel Internet technologies into Vista e.g.:

XAML - (Microsoft's rival to HTML)
HD Photo - (Microsoft's replacement for JPEG)
PNRP - (Microsoft's way of giving every Vista PC its own proprietary based DNS)

Microsoft will cosy up to developers and over time lots of Web sites will use the parallel technologies. If XAML etc is better than the Web of today (e.g. WYSIWYG viewing and printing will probably be improved to a Windows App type experience) Microsoft may well succeed. This will freeze out Ubuntu and Linux who won't be able to use the new Microsoft technologies. Could it be that Ubuntu and Macintosh will go the way of Novell, WordPerfect who once were King in their own realms until Microsoft decided it wanted it all for itself?

Microsoft doesn't like the W3C and clearly wants to make the Internet its own.

The question is: Can Ubuntu and Linux win against Microsoft?

Answer: Maybe, if they address this head on. Of course, if people stop buying Microsoft that would help too.

Roman Balitsky:

Users don't need a XAML, HD Photo, PNRP or any other technology. Users need a solution. There is a huge amount of Windows XP machines, which suits users wery well, and will continue to be, I suppose for a 5 years or more. This means that new software will be created without the hold on new MS pegs.

Ubuntu is a nice system it self, but it has a lack of solutions for it (absolutely as any other distribution). For example there is no real replacement for Photoshop and ImageReady. Not much of new games developed to run on Linux (they are, but only some).

I think we can say that: Linux is mostly ready, users are mostly ready, desktop Linux market is not widely ready, but it will be shortly ready because of the growing on demands.

tin:

The internet runs on open standards. MS gave in and made IE 7 standards compliant because people were getting too annoyed with the proprietary crap.

The answer is that these proprietary formats will do nothing other than annoy people and standards will win in the end.

Vista is turning people away from MS in larger numbers than ever. XP ticked some IT people off. Vista has managed to outrage normal users aswell. Not many people will buy Vista just for a stupid website that uses proprietary file formats. They'll just go elsewhere.

raindog:

DELLux, bring it on Dell-AP.

What Ubuntu is saying about Dell

What Dell is saying about Ubuntu

Then maybe an option for pre-installed CentOS? It's not too much to ask for!

prilvesh:

i just dont like ubuntu i just dont i,d prefer if xandros oor debian or suse were preinstalled

0ld_m15eRy:

i aggree the ubunu linex is just 2 dumb lol only l00sers us it adn deban is wrse just read it there not lying loll!! http://community.linux.com/community/07/04/27/1211211.shtml?tid=16
u will see lol even Linux.com hate it so if Ubutnu is fromdebiam than there just wasting theiyre time lol

raindog:

Clearly Ubuntu Linux has a further to go if it is to appeal to the cretin sector of today's marketplace. Perhaps future editions could benefit from the inclusion of a "Stupid" to "English" translation utility?

old_misery:

Good idea! Maybe they could include a sarcasm dispersal system or a humour enhancement device too. :(

I actually switched from Debian to Feisty when the second beta was released and am pretty pleased with it, except the wireless drivers for my PCMCIA card don't seem to support monitor mode.

Wes:

Whatever Linux flavour chosen some people wouldn't have like it and so I think they had to choose one and they chose Ubuntu. Whether it was a bad choice or not only the market will tell but I reckon it was a good choice but I admit I am a bit biased towards Ubuntu.

raindog:

That's fine prilvesh, you are free to load whatever version of Linux you desire, although do not expect the level of support you would get with a pre-installed build.

To put this another way would you rather purchase a Linux based Dell, erase it and reload the Distribution of your choice, or would you prefer to buy the same hardware and be forced pay for a Microsoft License you never intend to use?
Even if Ubuntu is not your distribution of choice you are still on a winner.

prilvesh:

yeah your right rain dog windows and its drm licenses and money hoging software sucks face it linux rocks whether its xandros or ubuntu they still are better than windows

Aubrey:

Spot on, raindog. This is great news for all Linux users (at least those who want it to prosper beyond the wankergeek user-base). Its a hardware win for all of us, but it also gives reviewers and testers a chance to compare apples with apples for a change. Now reviewers (like that Ashton Mills character) can actually compare professionally pre-installed Ubuntu with professionally pre-installed Windows or OS/X and stop putting potential Linux users off with all this nonsense about drivers and codecs. We may even see hardware reviewers asking about Linux performance of new gizmos and widgets - wouldn't that be neat?

And Ubuntu is the perfect test run if Linux is to attract ordinary users, whatever the niche distro users think (I am a big fan of puppy myself).

Yay.

snadra_madness:

Forgive my igmorance, but who pays for the hours invested by Ubuntu developers? Last time I looked the distro was free, so there is no sales income. Or will Dell pay a licensing fee to Ubuntu. My concern is Dell's motivation. They can now seemingly drop prices on the already dubious range of hardware by adding what I fear will be an OS that is not yet suited for the consumption of "Joe Consumer". Although this is what Linux needs, a commercial reality to test its viability in the long term, and hooray for that, I am concerned about Dell's motivation. If the prompting for this move is discounted price point, then it may do Linux more harm than good if the OS needs a high level of support from Dell, Software and Hardware vendors and it is not forthcoming.
Yay for change and choice, but please make sure "Joe (Turn it on and it works) Consumer" has the tools they need to make it succeed. Cheers

Aubrey:

Once again, raindog is spot-on. The business model behind Ubuntu is a very different one from MS's. Check out Canonical and recent interviews with Mark Shuttleworth. Nobody seems to be saying that this will be a cash-cow (or even a profitable experience) for either Dell or Canonical. But it is an important step in re-aligning the market towards having more than one option available for both consumers and producers. Right now, I think that MS dominance and power would make it pretty much impossible for anyone to make an indent if they played by the "rules" (which have been pretty much written by MS anyway). It will be really interesting to watch MS's reaction - legally, commercially and politically. I am expecting a deluge of the usual FUD from Redmond.

raindog:

However ignorance of how the "Free Software Model" can work needs to be explained.
For dell to deliver preinstalled Linux OSs on their machines is far from a free exercise.
They have to produce documentation, train support personnel, develop or adapt drivers etc. Those costs would be passed onto the consumer as part of each linux machines purchase price.
The difference is that there are no monopoly constraints on modification or distribution of the OS code. IT companies charge to service and install Linux software, but they do not charge for the OS product which they themselves obtained freely.
There is cash changing hands and it is in manufacturers interests to provide support to open source developers. This can be in the form of dollars or in the form of hardware or use of premises and resources. With linux moving past that 2% novelty market share it is moving into the radar of interest of manufacturers.

Do you honestly believe that $751 sticker for Vista Ultimate has been levied on just development costs and a meagre margin?
The big difference with a free Operating System is the costs are covered to make its use and distribution viable, it is not a license for its creators to produce a perpetual revenue stream. A hack level coder at Microsoft or any other organisation will be paid a comfortable salary for his work but he wont be paid again and again for what he produced yet the company feels entitlted to endless revenue. The charges for much commercial software reflect a lot more than the cost of production plus a reasonable margin and sufficient dollars to keep the lights on for ongoing development.

There is no moral justification whatsoever for Microsoft's charges there are onerous license terms supplied as a condition of sale. What justification is there for Microsoft to tell me the product I have legally purchased on machine "A" cannot be legally removed and reinstalled on machine "B".
With Linux there are costs to be met but you wont be charged again and again for the same thing. I am free to load as is a OS or application, but if I want an application developed or modified to my needs then I must pay for this to be achieved and this CAN be done under the OS's license terms. It's not utopia its just a fairer model which encourages rather than stifles developers.

Bill Gates can shoot around the planet playing philanthropist all he likes, what a human being (swoon), but this wont change the fact that for decades MS has gone all out to stifle and hamper the small developer. The only way for smart kids to cut expert Windows code has been to pirate something like Visual Studio. "Whats that kid? You want to cut code but dont have the cash? Here buy one of our crippled versions of VB." In those terms that freely down-loadable GNU compilers becomes very attractive and worth a steeper learning curve.

I cannot understand your suggested conspiracy theories of Dell's motivation, they want to sell hardware and want to do it for profit, no question about it and nothing to have a problem about.
Dell wont be dropping Windows anytime soon, they are simply responding to a market groundswell for an alternative offering.

If the Linux based Dell is cheaper than the Windows version of the same machine then the consumer has a choice they have been denied for some time. Your assertion the Linux offering is unsuited for consumption is from a very narrow viewpoint, the Linux offering may be a bit rougher around the edges, but nothing a bright student or any clever human cannot manage and given a price advantage the learning curve can become more than worthwhile.
I cannot see Dell dumping and running with any preinstalled pack they offer and there will be a choice for those who prefer the time old software they know. Or will there? The only choice that will be glaring by its omission will be Windows XP, MS will soon refuse to allow it to be sold by Dell despite the Market demand. Go figure.

Do some research on the GNU license and on free software, once you grasp the concept of what Free is you can understand that it is a model that can and does prosper in a commercial environment.

sandra_madness:

I hope it is for the better. I would hate to see the effort afforded by the Linux community be set back by a multinationals desire for a bigger bottom line. I ony hope that the support offered to consumers is all it should be and that Dell does not assume that people who buy these systems have enough tech savvy to deal with some of the teething problems, then again they sell Vista right??!! Anyway I just do not want the Linux future to leave a sour taste in the consumer's mouth. Although I support Microsoft in many of its efforts, I do want to see an alternative come into the consumer market and be everything it can be without a particular vendor letting the community down in a half arsed attempt.
Cheers

davidl:

?

smellyoulater:

Wouldn't it have been better to have waited until Dell actually gave an official announcement before posting this headline? Otherwise it's rather misleading by just using a second hand reference which quotes "inside sources".

raindog:

Is this Official Enough for you? Ashton's article clearly states that at this time it is a USA only move so I dont see how you can bleat deception, things just take time to reach us in the colonies.

I hope Dell AP are on the ball enough to be ready before end of financial year.

smellyoulater:

As quoted from the first few lines of the article

(quote)
Popular news site Desktop Linux broke the story first and quotes 'inside sources' since, officially, Dell hasn't made an announcement yet.
(end quote)

I don't think I need to say any more.

raindog:

Quoting single lines whilst ignoring all other fact in the article and in replies, in a vain hope to make a point, is a practice generally used by religious zealots, talk-back radio shock-jocks and nut-job lunatics.

You've read the article, you have the links available, the rest is a matter of rational comprehension.

At least we agree on one point and that is, that you dont need to say anymore.
Your petty bitching about non issues is neither helpful nor entertaining. If other sources were to never be quoted in these articles there wouldn't be a lot to say. The sources were quoted, links were provided and considered comment and information was added, it's how thinks work.

If you wish to labour on the trivialities then go right ahead but perhaps keep the output for your diary, you could share the findings with your analyst or warden and leave the rest of us to get on with news and education.

smellyoulater:

The issue here is not whether Dell is going to preinstall Linux (thank you for your hyperlink), but the lazy journalism being represented here by APC, perhaps in some kind of attempt to get a news scoop.

I have noticed that Ashton has added a postscript to this article in order to back up his story - this, however, was not present when the blog was initially posted. There would most definitely be more weight to the story if your provided link was quoted from day one of publishing it.

Dan Warne:

It actually was -- the story, with the postscript were posted simultaneously. We'd held the story until Ashton got the confirmation.

Tony:

Dell is Heading in the right direction but Ubuntu not there yet. The prices should be alot chepper

Thomas Hansen:

It's about time if you ask me...!!
Btw for those that still wants to have the fancy Vista design on their PC still running Ubuntu, check out our Hasta La Vista skin for the Gaia Ajax Window ...

No reason to ditch the Vista skin just since you're using Ubuntu. You just need to run it through FireFox... ;)

.t