Install Linux... from Windows?

Ashton Mills29 January 2007, 10:14 AM

Just when Microsoft wants you to forget about alternatives to Vista, along comes the Debian based project that allows you to not only install Linux on a Windows system, but do it right under its nose.


Install Linux from the Web through Windows: What next, Microsoft Linux?Install Linux from the Web through Windows: What next, Microsoft Linux?


 

Just when Microsoft wants you to forget about alternatives to Vista, along comes the Debian based project that allows you to not only install Linux on a Windows system, but do it right under its nose.

Linux is renowned for being a compatible operating system, catering to all manner of protocols, filesystems, and co-habitation with other operating systems including Windows.

But usually you need to install it from a clean boot. Now, thanks to Debian coder Robert Millan it's possible to not only install Linux alongside Windows, but through it as well.

While the Ubuntu team initially announced exactly this concept earlier this month along with a downloadable prototype, Millan appears to have completed a finished version replete with a promotional (if not controversial) website to boot -- goodbye-microsoft.com.

By simply clicking the 'install Debian' link the installer will download and, when run, install Debian through your Windows desktop. Aside from the obvious ease of use this sort of install mechanism provides, Millan also listed the following benefits in his announcement post to the Debian lists:

- Migrating to Debian on hardware without CD drive (or USB boot
capability).
- Migrating to Debian for users who have no idea how to burn an ISO and/or how to configure their BIOS for CD boot.
- Migrating a system to Debian immediately, at any time, wether
we have a boot CD at hand or not.
- Advocating Debian to Windows users. Rather than give them a CD (expensive), give them a piece of paper with an URL.

It all sounds good, but how does it work?

The idea of booting Linux from a Windows partitions isn't entirely foreign -- for a long time we've had distributions capable of installing to a FAT16/32 partition and boot directly from it (see loadlin), but we've long since moved away from those days.

And in fact this new method isn't too dissimilar. Here the appropriate Debian images are download and configured, and installed as a loopback ext3 filesystem on the NTFS Windows drive -- for those unfamiliar, this means a self-contained filesystem created as a single large file on the NTFS partition -- then mounted as a loopback device within Linux when the kernel boots.

Which is the second part of the magic -- the installer finishes by using GRLDR from GRUB4DOS to load the loopback image directly after being booted from the Windows boot manager. So effectively both Windows and Linux are loaded from the NTFS partition, although to Linux it's a world within a world. No partitioning, no data moved, and aside from updating the boot loader, uninstalling would be a matter of deleting the image file.

It's definitely a nifty trick, easy to do, and from the average Windows user's perspective, transparent. It should probably explain however that the Windows NTFS partition becomes home to both OSes, lest they later decide to update or even remove Windows in favour of Linux and nuke their Debian install in the process.

It's also not entirely clear how one could extend the disk space for the ext3 container file, though of course Linux can read the parent NTFS filesystem (and potentially delete said container file, now wouldn't that be interesting).

On that note it's probably best to wait until this mechanism has had the pants tested off it before you forward it around to your soon-to-be-converted friends, but it is none the less an ingenious use of loopback filesystems and a Linux install that hits Windows users where it matters most -- at the simple click of a button.

It also bodes well for future installs of Linux regardless of distribution. The Ubuntu system, while still being developed, apparently goes a step further and pulls in necessary information from Windows itself, streamlining the process for the new Linux user even more.

If you want to give either a try, the Debian installer is here and the prototype Ubuntu one here.


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guacamole:

Just when Microsoft wants you to forget about alternatives to Vista, along comes the Debian based project that allows you to not only install Linux on a Windows system, but do it right under its nose.
-----------------------------

You can bet that that MS will not continue to allow this to be done "right under its nose" for long, what with Vista being released from its Redmond cage!!

Debian installer to be tested and modified for Vista OSR's/SP's 1, 2, 3 ... etcetera.



29 February 2008, 8:29 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymous:

My money says it won't be long before we discover that VisDuh software will not run under WINE. This is simple enough to accomplish if your loader or dynamic linker require digital signatures from MS and part of the application start time is the verification of signatures. Of course this also requires you to be connected to the 'net to start up Wordpad, but this is no different from your 'product activation' procedures.



29 February 2008, 8:37 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Michael:

This is priceless...I love the concept...purely from a fun thumb-yer-noses-at-'em viewpoint.

29 February 2008, 8:29 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymous:

Just attempted to install this windows patch in windows2k running under debian etch and kqemu.

It wouldn't install though :(.

It would be good to get working on my PC at work.


Keep up the good work.

29 February 2008, 8:29 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Robert Millan:

I'm the author. And I've tested it on win2k. Please, would you report the error via email ? My address is at the website.




29 February 2008, 8:37 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Bobzilla:

This is a clever and neat install but seems to be more in the line of a demo install.

I see mention only of the NTFS filesystem. Will this work on Win98 with a fat32 filesystem?

29 February 2008, 8:29 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

smygel:

ah finaly! this look realy good! i can not wait too try this thing! but is that somthing i shuld think abaut? i got xp media center now.. i had linux one time and then the usb dident work! doo this thing that?

29 February 2008, 8:29 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Andrew Donnellan:

The *Ubuntu* one installs into a loopback image.

At the moment the Debian installer ONLY loads the normal installer and it uses the normal partitioning tools.

29 February 2008, 8:29 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

fixrouter:

Hi,

I tried installing the debian following the link and the instructions with no luck.

I'm stuck on the part where you're going to partition the HDD. I thought there's no partitioning required because of the loop back thing(ext3 inside ntfs).I don't want to reformat my whole HDD, all I want is to put the debian OS to one of the HDD partition(NTFS).

I hope you can enlighten me with this one.

Cheers,
fixrouter

29 February 2008, 8:37 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

aek:

You do not need to format your Hard disk to make new partition of Suse Linux,but i will give you some steps before installation of Suse Linux

What you have to do in windows before installing Suse Linux


I think is very important to fallow this steps in Windows before installation.

First you need to back up all your data you need.
I mean you have to save all your file you need in Cd or Dvd or hard drive D.

You have to check which file System you have FAT System or NTFS System
To check that in Windows click on my computer properties and you see which file system you have.

If you have FAT File system follow FAT File System procedures .

FAT File System.

In Windows. first run scandisk to make sure that the FAT partition is free of lost file fragments and crosslinks. After that,run defrag to move files to the beginning of the partition. This accelerates the resizing procedure in Linux.

1-Check disk. This option will check the volume for error.

Click on my computer right click on hard drive C click on properties then tools click on check now and give you two option
Click on Check Disk .


2-Defragment disk . This option will defragment files on the volume.

Right click on hard drive C click on properties then tools click on Defragment now.


If you have NTFS File System fallow NTFS File System procedures.

NTFS File System.

In Windows ,run scan disk and defrag to move the files to the beginning of the hard disk.
In contrast to the FAT File System,you must perform these steps. Otherwise the NTFS partition cannot be resized.


1-Check disk. This option will check the volume for error.

Click on my computer right click on hard drive C click on properties then tools click on check now and give you two option
Click on Check Disk .




2-Defragment disk . This option will defragment files on the volume.

Right click on hard drive C click on properties then tools click on Defragment now.


Important: Disabling the windows swap File.

If you operate your system with a permanent swap file on an NTFS file system. this file may be located at the end of the hard disk and remain there despite defrag. Therefore, it may be impossible to shrink the partition sufficiently .In this case, temporarily deactivate the swap file(the memory in windows).
After the partition has been resized,reconfigure the virtual memory

3- Disabling the windows partition.

Click on start click on control panel click on performance and maintenance then click system and click advanced then setting and advance again click change then click on no paging file and OK.

After these preparation, return to the Linux partitioning setup and select Shrink Windows partition.
Don't Shrink windows partition to mush.

When you finish start your installation of Linux 10.1 and 10.2 ,and i will give you the link show you how you make installation of Suse Linux 10.2
http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_suse_10.1
http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_opensuse_10.2
If you have any problem in the future you can contact me by e-mail and i try to help you.

29 February 2008, 8:37 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Mark:

More betaWare, just like Linux! The Debian.exe gives me the debian start up option which when selected scrolls a couple of pages of text on the screen , till the screen goes blank. Even after leaving the machine for 2 hours it is obvious that nothing is happening.

I just wish that SOMEONE would refine Linux enough to make it a viable producyt. I would not object to paying for it if I knew I could install it and run it.

In the last four years there is no OS or program that has wasted my time as Linux has, and it still contues to be BetaWare.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

william Ashley:

Great to see this - as long as you arn't a total moron you should be able to use this to install linux from windows. A+++ on this.

29 February 2008, 8:40 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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