Regrets, I've had a few, but not over NBN tender: Conroy

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Conroy truly is the new Chaplin, a comic genius for slap-stick disaster.

The true cost of building the network? How did he work that out? Get Kev to roll a double six?

[Quote]
“I am pleased to note that the [Australian National Audit Office] considers that the process was conducted well and in accordance with the Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines,” said Conroy, pointing out the auditor had not made any formal recommendations to improve departmental work.[/quote]

Does this guy even realise? He makes a complete balls up, but is oh so glad it was documented neatly and that none of the writing ran over the lines.
Aubrey was right, he should be netted for his own protection at the earliest opportunity.

Phred (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
He makes a complete balls up, but is oh so glad it was documented neatly and that none of the writing ran over the lines

He probably got into politics because no one else would employ him :O.

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

So I read it like this:
"We technically didn't do anything wrong, so that means we acted perfectly".... Is he trying, and failing miserably, to spin this into a good thing, or is he really that stupid?

petert (Senior member):

Quoting Tin:
Is he trying, and failing miserably, to spin this into a good thing, or is he really that stupid?

Conroy is stupid, but he is smart enough to know that a large part of Australian voters are even more stupid!

wormal (User):

The department and Conroy have acted appropriately and skilfully averted the embarrassment of none of the tenders being viable and we will end up getting a state of the art fttp network. Try not to be too partisan, Raindog's relentless and baseless attacks are really tiresome, does he work or have relatives in the Liberal Party?
I seriously want the government to drop it's filtering plans and I think the IT community should focus on this without resorting to ad-hominem attacks or even mentioning bloody China or communism at all --the pressure for the filter is coming from social conservatives within both parties.

petert (Senior member):

Quoting wormal:
the pressure for the filter is coming from social conservatives within both parties.

"Social conservatives" would seem merely to be code for "Christians"!

wormal (User):

Yes, but I think their may be some liberal Christian's that are opposed, I wasn't trying to use tricky language but rather point out that the desire for the filter is coming from the right and not the left, let alone some crazed communist conspiracy.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting wormal:
I wasn't trying to use tricky language

good because if you were you'd have failed. we call it doing the Conroy!


Quoting wormal:
that the desire for the filter is coming from the right and not the left

So Senator Steve apart from being incompetent is a closet religious right zealot, because after all he is the one pushing for a stupid and ineffectual filter. Or perhaps he is just a puppet of zealots, after all Labor has many puppets, look at the NSW premier or those empty heads cleverly arranged to do the nodding from behind Kevin in sitting days in parliament.


Quoting wormal:
let alone some crazed communist conspiracy.

Given you are the only one babbling on about communism and that your also the one intent on rabbiting about filtering in a thread essentially about the NBN, have you consider the idea of a long rest and a good lie down?

wormal (User):

Quoting Raindog:
So Senator Steve apart from being incompetent is a closet religious right zealot, because after all he is the one pushing for a stupid and ineffectual filter. Or perhaps he is just a puppet of zealots, after all Labor has many puppets, look at the NSW premier or those empty heads cleverly arranged to do the nodding from behind Kevin in sitting days in parliament.

Stephen Conroy is a known, not closeted, conservative Catholic apparently (unconfirmed though widely assumed and has not been denied) a member of Opus Dei, so you were more right when you were trying to be sarcastic. Labor has the policy of solidarity and block voting which the liberal party also follows but less strictly. the idea being that policy is fought for in the party room, when the party adopts a policy, then you vote for it for obvious practical reasons, no mindless puppets, though quite a few idiots and inevitable members will have to vote against their personal beliefs.

Quoting Raindog:
Given you are the only one babbling on about communism[...]


I shouldn't have mentioned it in this thread, but surely you know what I mean; there are countless comments all over the net that fall into conspiracy theory when talking about the filter.

wormal (User):

Conroy IS a conservative Catholic. Allegedly a member of Opus Dei.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

The man is also a practicing idiot with a known refusal to listen. A very expensive idiot.

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting petert:
"Social conservatives" would seem merely to be code for "Christians"!


Nope. It's exactly what it says. Most people are against this filtering, church-goers included. Some of the big pushers of it may be Christians, but they aren't the spokes-people for all Christians. Please ignore them as the idiots they are and stop lumping all others with them.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting wormal:
The department and Conroy have acted appropriately and skilfully

skillfully? Are you barking?


Quoting wormal:
of none of the tenders being viable

viable for what?


Quoting wormal:
we will end up getting a state of the art fttp network.

Will we? 30 million spent and all Conroy has to show for it is misguided self belief.


Quoting wormal:
Try not to be too partisan

If partisan is calling a disgrace of a communications minister a disgrace of a communication minister, then partisan is what you shall hear from me.


Quoting wormal:
Raindog's relentless and baseless attacks are really tiresome

Relentless yes, baseless no. And get used to them. besides Raindog has done more to get difficult broadband connections happening than Conroy has and it didn't cost anyone $30Mil. Even if you don't want to hear that, I am sure you are aware of your options! If a little relentlessness is what it takes to stop the dreaming and make a few take a simple reality check then that's how it's going to be.



Quoting wormal:
does he work or have relatives in the Liberal Party?

No, on both counts! Are you a paid apologist for Kevin? And no I'm not Dan Warne either for some of the other conspiracy theorists. Something I'm sure Dan is quite pleased about.


Quoting wormal:
I seriously want the government to drop it's filtering plans

There is away to do that sometime between now and November.


Quoting wormal:
and I think the IT community should focus on this without resorting to ad-hominem attacks or even mentioning bloody China or communism at all

Is that what they are doing on your planet, back here at Australia, Earth we were sticking the boot into Conroy for multi-dimensional ability to stuff-up all he touches. But hey if it's a China thing to you well again you know your options.


Quoting wormal:
the pressure for the filter is coming from social conservatives within both parties.

Yes and both of those fly about in unmarked black helicopters which are barely distinguishable right? Nurse! We have another one!

wormal (User):

Are you sure that a Liberal vote will get rid of the filter? I believe the greens are the only mainstream party thoroughly against it.

Quoting Raindog:
Yes and both of those fly about in unmarked black helicopters which are barely distinguishable right? Nurse! We have another one!


I honestly do not know what you are talking about here.

apt.pupil (Advanced member):

Quoting wormal:
Quoting Raindog:
Yes and both of those fly about in unmarked black helicopters which are barely distinguishable right? Nurse! We have another one!


I honestly do not know what you are talking about here.

Denial is the first symptom :)

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting wormal:
Are you sure that a Liberal vote will get rid of the filter?

Not entirely but I damn sure they wont blow $430bn down a hole for an unworkable broadband deal. And that alone is worth a vote.


Quoting wormal:
I believe the greens are the only mainstream party thoroughly against it.

The greens are against everything they have no clue.

apt.pupil (Advanced member):

Quoting Raindog:
Not entirely but I damn sure they wont blow $430bn down a hole for an unworkable broadband deal. And that alone is worth a vote

erm, that figure should be $43bn.
And i do not believe a Liberal vote will get rid of the Filter. Everything that has been said, protested, tested and proven against a National filter, and i am yet to see Liberals pipe up and say "this is clearly a bad idea", which leads me to believe that if the Liberals were in charge, no change would take place

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting apt.pupil:
erm, that figure should be $43bn.

If what they thought would cost $17million inflated to $43Bn in three under Conroy, where do you think the $43Bn will be in three years. $430Bn is far closer the mark.

wormal (User):

Well I want a fibre to the premises network, no matter the cost (hopefully managed well so that costs are contained obviously and being closer to 43bn then 430bn.) I truly believe there will be some amazing revolutionary changes come about through the very high speed interconnection with the world and although government involvement may have it's problems I trust government more then the private sector when it comes to monopolistic infrastructure. I feel that this government has been less chaotic then the former, and we have to remember that they have a very hostile senate to deal with, so it is pretty hard for them to do anything other then just talk.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting wormal:
no matter the cost

Hell yeah, why spend money on roads or hospitals, or defence when you can get better ping times any side of Coonamble.


Quoting wormal:
I truly believe there will be some amazing revolutionary changes come about through the very high speed interconnection with the world

It's a wonder then why you still back a team that promised lots, deliver nothing, spent millions and still has no real plan for progress. The same team who despite having pulled a budget figure for a network of undetermined specification have no contracts, no completion dates, no actual new connections. Yeah I can see how a team like this could be the basis of a dream.


Quoting wormal:
and we have to remember that they have a very hostile senate to deal with

And thank the good sense of Australia's forefathers for that. Without a Senate Rudd would have already bankrupt the nation with fanciful and fruitless schemes.


Quoting wormal:
so it is pretty hard for them to do anything other then just talk.

Oh I don't know Conroy seemed to find the time to scrap signed contracts and to waste $17million for zero return.

Aubrey (Advanced member):

Conroy seems to be capable of many different kinds of incompetence and stupidity. This one relates to his capacity to ignore advice that doesn't suit his short-term political interests and he is by no means alone. That particular trait is one that crosses party lines. He is, of course, compounding the error by trying to justify the unjustifiable and blame shifting (although I tend to believe that Rudd's Office is in the frame on this one too).

His undoubted social conservatism and narrow mindedness is irrelevant to this particular bout of insanity.

At this stage of the political cycle, only the Party can deal with Conroy and I really hope they do something about him soon - but they have tolerated Michael Atkinson in SA despite even greater lunacy, so I'm not hopeful. The Senate may protect us from some of his excesses and schemes, but the idea that the public is about to ditch the Government in current circumstances is ludicrous and actually distracting.

And Raindog: Settle! Down! Stay! One more outburst and you will have to spend 2hrs listening the the Opposition Finance Spokesman explain government finance and his theory of balanced budgets.

apt.pupil (Advanced member):

Wromal,

Raindog puts a pretty good point there. We got told last year that it would cost approx. $34bn and take approx 8 years to set up, and i read somewhere on smh.com.au the other day they were starting the rolling out soon- but as for the rest of it(apart from this report) we as a population have been kept in the dark about most of it. I know that i like to be let know about something that the government is up to with our tax paying money

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting apt.pupil:
Raindog puts a pretty good point there.

I only ever do good. :>


Quoting apt.pupil:
and i read somewhere on smh.com.au the other day they were starting the rolling out soon

What was starting was of course not specified. Never is. And you can have all the starts you like but it remains meaningless until a substantial number of public connections (preferably rural or remote)are realised. Trial suburb plans in the ACT do not count.


Quoting apt.pupil:
we as a population have been kept in the dark about most of it.

As is the industry! The whole nation is set on permanent pause, at the whim of a buffoon quest for political advantage.

apt.pupil (Advanced member):

Quoting Raindog:
I only ever do good. :>

well sometimes i find you seem to enjoy starting up an argument, though even i have my days where a healthy argument is on the menu


Quoting Raindog:
What was starting was of course not specified

their specifications was within 2 weeks iirc, but i can not confirm it, so i did not say specifically the timeframe before. And i certainly do not remember what area was started- i can only assume that they are continuing with their plan to give Tasmanians(why them? they are hardly Australian anyway) the first section of the FTTN rollout

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting apt.pupil:
well sometimes i find you seem to enjoy starting up an argument,

No I simply choose to correct rather than ignore much of the complete bunkum that is said.


Quoting apt.pupil:
their specifications was within 2 weeks iirc

within 2 weeks for what? spending another $17 and waste more time?


Quoting apt.pupil:
to give Tasmanians(why them? they are hardly Australian anyway)

That's rich coming from Queensland which has been Australia sunny little welfare project for decades. The place floods annually and you cant even manage an adequate dam.
Queenslanders are so dim they think daylight saving fades the curtains so they'd be too stupid to take advantage of broadband anyway.

apt.pupil (Advanced member):

Quoting Raindog:
Queenslanders are so dim they think daylight saving fades the curtains so they'd be too stupid to take advantage of broadband anyway.

shush troll. Daylight savings is not an essential part of life, and i would rather not have to set my alarm clock one hour earlier just so i could "finish work before daylight finishes"

Also North and Central Queensland may flood all the time, but in the Brisbane region, floods are few and far between(last year was the welcomed exception). The state government has been for the last 3 years- trying to set up catchments in the areas that rain the most between Caboolture and Gold coast(closest proposed area for me is Beaudesert), but the stupid locals have a tendency to not want their unused land to be turned into a catchment so we can have reduced water restrictions and less stress about water(or the lack of)

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting apt.pupil:
and i would rather not have to set my alarm clock one hour earlier

And neither would the cows,eh?


Quoting apt.pupil:
but the stupid locals have a tendency

yep queenslanders "strange one day, dim the next".

apt.pupil (Advanced member):

Quoting Raindog:
yep queenslanders "strange one day, dim the next".

Not all of us are set in our ways and illogical.
Plus- i have travelled interstate, and honestly, what i have seen scares me.

NSW: local government has not heard of the word "teamwork", and public transport costs are ridiculous and their services are unreliable

VIC: Melbourne is the only place in Australia that i can comfortably call a city, but a lot of it's deniz- err citizens are troublemakers

TAS: When someone from the "mainland" comes, they hide their extra, abnormal bodyparts. But in all seriousness, the locals have a tendency to be untrustworthy. My former employer did a show in one of their RSL clubs a few months ago, and the RSL manager rewrote the contract that was arranged, and didn't notify my former employer's manager, and in the end, they actually lost money at the end of it all. If i was working at the time, i would not have been impressed, being unable to be paid.

SA: Well, currently Michael Atkinson is the Attorney- General there. nuff said

NT: If you think Queensland was bad, over in NT, the company i work for has a procedure where if a person comes in at 10:30 intoxicated(which happens often- i have a mate who works up there)they have to call the shopping centre security to remove them, so as to prevent the damage of property

WA: not a great deal of things to say except that for an area where your local shop neighbor is anywhere up to a leisurely 2 hours drive anywhere almost directly outside of Perth- it is a nice area to live in. Over in WA though, they have even worse broadband restrictions than i do in my area soutshide of brisbane. Its either Telstra or 2- way Satellite. Take your pick.

of course- i have picked out one negative for each other state, just as comparison. Australia in a whole will always be a backwater country when it comes to modern technologies such as internet and IT, because the general Demographics of the country has everyone parked right next to the coastline or near a major river inlet. When you look at other countried such as the bulk of the U.S or UK, you will find the country's population is far more densely packed all over the countryside.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting apt.pupil:
Australia in a whole will always be a backwater country when it comes to modern technologies such as internet and IT

No it doesn't have to be that way, but it will be while ever enough dills like you vote for dills like him!

apt.pupil (Advanced member):

Quoting Raindog:
No it doesn't have to be that way, but it will be while ever enough dills like you vote for dills like him!


and you would have recommended Howard again, even though he was not going to serve a full term, and even though the name of his replacement has slipped my mind, i remember this much: i did not want the other guy to take over either. I voted the way i did, because i believed at the time, i was voting for the lesser of two evils.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

sadly dills will always be dills and the rest of us just have to bear the burden.

Zig (User):

No-one said building the NBN was going to be easy.
At least Conroy and Labor are trying.
The Liberals had over 10 years to come up with viable broadband for all Australians and did absolutely nothing. Who can forget the bumbling technology illiterates Alston, Coonan and so on.
The only mistake Conroy has made is to copy the Liberals plans for a porn filter.
Unfortunately, it is a massive mistake which could politically de-rail the NBN.

apt.pupil (Advanced member):

Quoting Zig:
At least Conroy and Labor are trying

a great movie hero once said, and i quote:
Quoting Yoda
"do or do not- there is no try"

the same factor applies here. I do not back the spending of money on a censorship filter that does not actually do what its supposed to do on the surface: protect Australians from murky things such as child pornography, ect.

I also do not back judicious wastes of taxpayer money for beating a dead horse on such matters. Senator Conroy is second on my personal hate list- right below Michael Atkinson

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Zig:
No-one said building the NBN was going to be easy.

Who knows they haven't struck a blow yet, 3 years and $30m later.


Quoting Zig:
At least Conroy and Labor are trying.

They said that about Icarus!


Quoting Zig:
The Liberals had over 10 years to come up with viable broadband for all Australians and did absolutely nothing.

What like the OPEL deal which would be serving thousands of Aussies now, well before Conroy reneged on signed contracts. Some thing that was real do-able and fully costed.


Quoting Zig:
The only mistake Conroy has made is to

The first mistake Conroy made was to think he had something clever to offer, the second mistake he made was to offer it. After that it's just been a succession of bumbling and mistakes.


Quoting Zig:
Unfortunately, it is a massive mistake which could politically de-rail the NBN.

No it was simply an evil grab at taking media control. As for NBN will you still be apologising about it's difficulty in 3 years time? I know Conroy will? How long will it take you to work out?

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

"A FORMER Labor politician caught up in electoral fraud allegations was appointed to a job with the new broadband network after a recommendation by the Communications Minister, Stephen Conroy.

The Queenslander Mike Kaiser was appointed in November to the $450,000-a-year role as the head of government relations and external affairs for NBN Co, the government-owned company set up to construct the $43 billion broadband network."

Something new this buffoon doesn't regret. More money out and gone forever, and we all know how a season of corrupt ALP politics is the ideal precursor to equip one with the skills to network optical fibre. Another $450K pa and how many connections now achieved?

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

The blunders never cease.

Todays Conroy Headline -

"A FORMER Labor politician caught up in electoral fraud allegations was appointed to a job with the new broadband network after a recommendation by the Communications Minister, Stephen Conroy."