Windows 7 promises fixes for Vista taskbar screw-ups

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Angus Kidman29 September 2008, 10:27 AM

Microsoft has promised that Windows 7 will fix two minor but highly annoying features of Vista: the near-invisible 'shut down' menu and the overcrowded taskbar.


As Microsoft readies for the first widespread distribution of Windows 7 at two key conferences later this year, details of planned changes to the software continue to emerge. And while the issue of how much Windows 7 needs to be differentiated from Vista remains in the air, Microsoft has committed to making some interface changes that will firmly differentiate the new Windows from its predecessor.

One of the more obvious (and annoying) changes to the Start menu in Vista was burying the options for shutdown and restart in a tiny fly-out menu, while making the sleep button much more prominent. In the latest post on the Engineering Windows 7 blog , Microsoft core user experience program manager Chaitanya Sareen effectively admits that this plan backfired and confused users.

"We did encounter some challenges with the power options in Vista's Start Menu," Sareen wrote. "The goal was to bubble-up and advertise the sleep option so that customers enjoy a faster resume. However, we now know despite our good intentions, customers are opening that fly-out menu and selecting other options. We're looking into improving this experience." Hopefully, the experience improvements will include making sleep actually work reliably, especially on notebook PCs, as well as ensuring the other options are more visible (and keyboard-accessible).

The user experience team is also grappling with how to make changes to the taskbar area, which is one of the most widely used features of the Windows interface. While Sareen largely shied away from specifics, a number of key elements in the plan have emerged:

  • Getting rid of the endless pop-up notifications that appear in Vista. "Based upon the feedback we’ve collected from customers, we recognize the Notification Area could benefit from being less noisy and something more controllable by the end-user," Sareen wrote. (I'd love to be able to tell Vista's security systems not to freak out while my security software is updating itself, for a start.).

  • Cleaning up the taskbar. "The taskbar is almost 15 years old, everyone uses it, people are used to it and many consider it good enough," Sareen noted. However, on powerful machines running large numbers of applications, it can still got crowded. Thus another key design goal: "The taskbar should have a cleaner look and feel." (This ties in with Microsoft's previously announced intentions to cut down on the amount of third-party 'crapware' visible within Windows.

  • Rethinking the concept of Desktop Toolbars, such as the Windows Media Player mini-control. "After extolling all the greatness of Desktop Toolbars, we must also admit they introduce several challenges," Sareen wrote. "For starters, they aren’t the easiest thing to discover. They also take up valuable space on an already busy taskbar. Most importantly though, they don’t always solve the customer goal. Sure you can have a folder’s contents accessible off your taskbar, but what if the files you want quick access to aren’t located in a single place? These are design challenges we intend to tackle."
Some other features of the Windows desktop are likely to remain, but won't get much emphasis in terms of future development or planning for integration with new features.

For instance, Windows has long allowed you to shift the taskbar from its default location to either the top or side of the screen, but Microsoft's user data suggests not many people care. "Less than 2% of sessions have a taskbar that's not at the bottom of the screen," Sareen wrote. So don't be surprised if the Windows 7 interface doesn't look so crash-hot if you belong in that select 2% group.


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agami (User):

Windows 7 is increasingly sounding like a service pack for Vista. Many will criticise the full version number increment and Microsoft's marketing department will no doubt rename it closer to the release date.

Aligning it with it's current US$300m Not Walls campaign it wouldn't surprise me if they called it Windows Freedom.

29 September 2008, 12:35 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting agami:
Windows 7 is increasingly sounding like a service pack for Vista.

Service pack? Now way! It'll be a bloated and hostile rework of a bloated and hostile rework of XP. which was after all a bloated and hostile rework of W2K.

it's been a long time between drinks since MS were innovators. If people forked big time for aero then I guess they'll fork out for a revised stop bar too.


29 September 2008, 1:16 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

Quoting Raindog:
bloated

Full of features and apps that Raindog doesn't like and/or uses ?


Quoting Raindog:
hostile

Not too sure what you mean here !


Quoting Raindog:
been a long time between drinks since MS were innovators

Who knows ! You may be pleasantly surprised :)

Quoting Raindog:
If people forked big time for aero then I guess they'll fork out for a revised stop bar too.

Some did ! .............. Depends on your occupation ;)



29 September 2008, 1:40 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
Full of features and apps that Raindog doesn't like and/or uses ?

So why would I want to pay for them?


Quoting Your Average Joe:
hostile

Not too sure what you mean here

Then you have not had to get Vista boxes to play nicely on a variety of Domain and workgrop based networks.


Quoting Your Average Joe:
Who knows ! You may be pleasantly surprised

That would be great, but I wont be hold my breath while I wait.




Quoting Your Average Joe:
Some did ! .............. Depends on your occupation

What does my occupation have to do with the inability of others to recognise poor value for money at best and negative investment at worst?



29 September 2008, 2:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

Quoting Raindog:
What does my occupation

I wasn't belittling your occupation but pointing out mine. As an importer and procurer of products, I have never paid MS's exhorbitant prices :)


Quoting Raindog:
Then you have not had to get Vista boxes to play nicely on a variety of Domain and workgrop based networks.

I have always found Vista's networking a pleasant experience.
But then again I have only dealt with MS products (ala XBox and other late MS OS systems).




29 September 2008, 3:08 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Julius (New user):

mate Quoting Your Average Joe:
Joe Quoting Raindog:
bloated

Full of features and apps that Raindog doesn't like and/or uses ?


Quoting Raindog:
hostile

Not too sure what you mean here !


Quoting Raindog:
been a long time between drinks since MS were innovators

Who knows ! You may be pleasantly surprised :)

Quoting Raindog:
If people forked big time for aero then I guess they'll fork out for a revised stop bar too.

Mate Windows xp m1 had the windows me build name

...

Some did ! .............. Depends on your occupation ;)






29 September 2008, 6:44 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

TV Bis (User):

It sounds like they are struggling to make this OS different to Vista. I'm really going to buy the new version for a better shutdown button location - No! Nothing wrong with the original location! In fact a lot of 3rd party software packages now add a shutdown icon etc., where it can be easily seen - on your desktop. If you are waiting for a better experiences with Windows 7 then don’t bother, enjoy Vista now before you end up with Vista Lite.

29 September 2008, 12:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

FostWare (User):

Quoting TV Bis:
If you are waiting for a better experiences with Windows 7 then don’t bother, enjoy Vista now before you end up with Vista Lite.


You mean Vista ME?






29 September 2008, 1:57 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Bry (User):

Perhaps this will be the Windows Vista Ultimate Extras pack that so far seems to have been Windows Vista Ultimate Sucked-In Experience

29 September 2008, 2:36 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Jeff (User):

Quoting TV Bis:
enjoy Vista now before you end up with Vista Lite


Wouldn't a lite version be a good thing?? If you go to the supermarket and get something lite it usually means 99% fat free (or similar) so maybe the lite version will be 99% bloat free?? I won't be holding my breath for that, but if they even get it to 10% bloat free that's still a hell of a lot of crap they'll be getting rid of...


29 September 2008, 11:08 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

GTR42 (User):

In regards to the 'start menu' sleep/power off/etc options... obviously people were too dumb to read how to change these 'main start menu' buttons?

Vista works perfectly fine within a domain network. We use it on approximately 50% (and growing) of our laptops within a worldwide 2003 domain without a single change to the domain... obviously we turn off IPv6 as none of our systems use or support it.

I see the usual time wasters, posers and unknowledgable people are still commenting on "how bad Vista is" as well... maybe they could give their opinion on the latest Ubunta that trashes hardware??

29 September 2008, 5:31 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

tim2hawkes (Cornerstone member):

it ok
but the beta i have has all the features that vista has and more
so i may skip win7


29 September 2008, 7:55 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting GTR42:
maybe they could give their opinion on the latest Ubunta that trashes hardware??

Well there is a heads up folks! Watch out for this Ubunta it trashes hardware and must be masquerading as the popular Linux distribution Ubuntu.
Destroys hardware? And just a moment ago I heard some lone rant about time wasters.

Raindog shakes his head in dismay. Still when you have to defend the honour of a badly designed task bar i guess grasping at random fact or fiction could only help the cause.


30 September 2008, 8:34 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

GTR42 (User):

ah raindog... you're still here stating your opinion as gospel and fact. How quaint of you...

30 September 2008, 9:44 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Ummm. Cluttered taskbar? Just drag it to 2 or 3 rows high if that's a problem. It's not rocket science. If the vertical space loss is an issue, switch on autohide. I've run mine 2 high for about 12 years, and recently gone to 3 high in Vista.
I think 90% of cluttered taskbars are PEBCAK anyway, so no matter what MS do, users will make a mess of it.

Good to hear they caught the idea that 15 popup balloons at boot is bad. But I do have to agree with the questions as to whether it's going to be more than a Vista service pack. Sounding that way at the moment.

29 September 2008, 8:13 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

agami (User):

Tin, I've noticed that you too have been knocked back to a 'Regular User', any idea why?


29 September 2008, 10:14 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

GTR42 (User):

I agree with Tin... its a PEBCAK issue. People are generally too dumb to use computers.

If people actually bothered to READ and UNDERSTAND the FACTS, they would know that Microsoft changed the "shutdown" button upon majority of users and businesses requesting a change "to support a green computer policy".

Microsoft did this... they also provided an EASY method to change the "power button" into a plain old shutdown like XP.

IMHO, there cannot be ANY complaint about it. <- that is my opinion, the rest of the above text is fact.

While a normal Microsoft installation of Vista DOES NOT result in 15 popup balloons... its the crapware that companies like Dell, HP, Sony install that causes that issue. That is NOT Microsoft's DOING or FAULT. Again, that is FACT, not my opinion.

30 September 2008, 9:58 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

FindTheWalrus (User):

We'll see if Microsoft is capable of learning from their mistakes.
But it's OK not to give a toss about windows 7:)

30 September 2008, 11:41 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

GTR42 (User):

But what REAL mistakes did they make?

Microsoft implemented most of the new technologies that the people wanted;

Less crashes and better stability - 89% of all XP crashes are due to graphics drivers
3D and better graphic subsystems - WPF delivers
Better audio - the new audio subsystems deliver the highest audio definition possible
Realtime and integrated search
"Visually" pretty
Gadgets
Green policies and technologies
Support for new hardware technologies

Microsoft did all those things... people just haven't moved on from 2002 when XP came out. People are stuck in their little rut... unwilling to try new things and attacking those "new things" because they don't understand them.

The media commentors keep their heads in the sand and are surely getting dizzy by now from being on the same stupid bandwagon for two years.

While other people keep touting Linux... but they forget... people don't like change, no matter the cost or the gain.

30 September 2008, 12:58 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting GTR42:
The media commentors keep their heads in the sand and are surely getting dizzy by now from being on the same stupid bandwagon for two years.

The anti-MS lynch mob will never be swayed. It's the tall poppy syndrome and the 'sticking it to the establishment' mentality. MS doesn't care and I don't think us 'believers' should either. We use it and we 'love' it :)

There is no perfect OS, and for every whinge about how long it takes to get a Vista install 'right' there are just as many trying to get a Linux or a Mac install 'right' !

It's just that no one whines about it because Linux and Mac are not the market leaders !

The fact that any Vista thread attracts the most number of comments is indicative of how influential MS's marque product is (love it or hate it) !


30 September 2008, 1:41 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting GTR42:
89% of all XP crashes are due to graphics drivers

Sounds like an arse-statistic to me.

Quoting GTR42:
unwilling to try new things and attacking those "new things" because they don't understand them.

Or perhaps they did try it, found it unsuitable for their needs. Anyone that works off network shares a lot would have good reason to not like Vista for example.

Quoting GTR42:
While other people keep touting Linux... but they forget... people don't like change, no matter the cost or the gain.

Oh... So change for Vista is right but change for anything else is stupid? Aha.


And now on to Me In Oz's comments:
Quoting Me In Oz:
MS doesn't care

Yeah. I guess that's what the Mojave Project was about then. Not caring.
Simple fact is MS DOES care. MS care a lot. As more people start getting pissed off at them, they risk losing billions of dollars. Plus, like Telstra, there are plenty of people who seem to think the best thing to do is act like they ARE the company and any attack is personal.

Quoting Me In Oz:
It's just that no one whines about it because Linux and Mac are not the market leaders !

In some markets, Linux is a leader. Still no one whining apart from Steve Ballmer.

30 September 2008, 2:56 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting Tin:
In some markets, Linux is a leader

Which market Tin ?
And please cite some references !

edit: My comment was in reference to the desktop OS market !



30 September 2008, 3:07 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
Which market Tin ?
And please cite some references !

Counted what proportion of the Internet is running on Apache Linux in comparison to the MS equivalent lately?


30 September 2008, 3:19 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting Raindog:
Counted what proportion of the Internet is running on Apache Linux in comparison to the MS equivalent lately?

See edit above :)





30 September 2008, 3:21 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
See edit above :)

You quite correct most of the boxes would be tower and rack mounted Linux boxes. :>




30 September 2008, 3:34 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting Raindog:
most of the boxes would be tower and rack mounted Linux boxes.

Yes ! Beige in colour, most probably ;)




30 September 2008, 3:37 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
See edit above :)


So say that then. Mind you, MS don't lead in desktop market either... They follow. They might outsell, but that's not leading.

Regardless of that particular meaning, the reason for whining isn't because MS are the biggest. It's because their products tend to be unfit for the purpose.
* Vista's networking for example would have cut it in 1998, but with XP outshining Vista, it doesn't work now.
* Exchange Server simply can't deal with the numbers of users many other open source servers can.
* And pricing... If you're going to pay for first class, you damn well expect some service! MS couldn't give a flying firetruck about your problems. Especially if you find an actual bug (they charge you to report it!).

30 September 2008, 3:37 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting Tin:
They might outsell, but that's not leading.

80% of the desktop OS market is leading no matter how you look at it !


Quoting Tin:
It's because their products tend to be unfit for the purpose.

I don't have the experience in your field or Raindog's so I can't comment on that side of networking but my experiences with a network of 50 odd pc's at a gaming LAN has always been a smooth operation.

But I guess the difference is that I deal with systems that are up to date and running 'likeminded' software. Where you may have to deal with many legacy devices and apps. And let me tell you from where I sit XP was never as stable and as easy to network as Vista at a LAN.



Quoting Tin:
And pricing... If you're going to pay for first class, you damn well expect some service! MS couldn't give a flying firetruck about your problems. Especially if you find an actual bug (they charge you to report it!).

This point I heartily agree with !

30 September 2008, 3:46 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

GTR42 (User):

Quoting Me In Oz:
Quoting Tin:
And pricing... If you're going to pay for first class, you damn well expect some service! MS couldn't give a flying firetruck about your problems. Especially if you find an actual bug (they charge you to report it!).

This point I heartily agree with !


Actually this is quite wrong, Microsoft have a long standing, publically known, "stand on bugs"... if you find one, you WILL NOT be charged for it.

Over my past 20+ years in this industry I have found quite a number of bugs and after raising them with Microsoft, I have NEVER been charged for any of the support they have given.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for other companies; Sun has charged "me". Apple has charged "me", SAP has charged "me" and so on. "me" being the business I either worked for or contracted to.

30 September 2008, 5:54 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Jeff (User):

Linux leads in a number of markets:

High Performance Computing:
http://blogs.computerworld.com/where_windows_is_2_to_linux

Web Servers:
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html
http://www.securityspace.com/s_survey/data/200808/index.html

30 September 2008, 3:24 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

plutonium210 (Advanced member):

Quoting Jeff:
High Performance Computing:

I just love the way the Linux fanboys whip this out !
Linux is an OS that may run 'high performance' apps.
The Linux OS itself is hardly 'high performance' :)




30 September 2008, 4:34 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

GTR42 (User):

Quoting Tin:
Sounds like an arse-statistic to me

Sorry Tin, it is an official and public statistic. Proven and recorded. Research it, you will find the truth.

Quoting Tin:
Or perhaps they did try it, found it unsuitable for their needs. Anyone that works off network shares a lot would have good reason to not like Vista for example

Anything is possible :) but if you READ what I wrote, I never mentioned Vista, I just referenced CHANGE itself.


Quoting Tin:
Oh... So change for Vista is right but change for anything else is stupid? Aha

I never said or inferred that people should move to Vista. You did. Re-read what I wrote.

30 September 2008, 5:49 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

CBR1100XX (Advanced member):

Quoting Me In Oz:
The fact that any Vista thread attracts the most number of comments is indicative of how influential MS's marque product is (love it or hate it)

A truer sentence has never been uttered !
Just visit any Mac and Linux forum and see the amount of MS bagging to confirm just how dominant it really is. Even people who are IT challenged bag 'Windows' when anything goes wrong because they heard it through 'word-of-mouth'. Our department used to run MAUS POS, and it was a dog of an app, but guess what got all the blame from the admin girls ........ 'Windows' ! Not because it was 'Windows' fault but because they heard others blame 'Windows' !




30 September 2008, 4:10 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting GTR42:
people just haven't moved on

Quoting GTR42:
People are stuck in their little rut...

Quoting GTR42:
because they don't understand

Quoting GTR42:
The media commentors keep their heads in the sand

Quoting GTR42:
from being on the same stupid bandwagon


Quoting GTR42:
While other people keep touting


Quoting GTR42:
but they forget...

Quoting GTR42:
people don't like change

Ah, the sanctity of a closed mind. You expect other to accept you diatribe as opinion, how about showing others the respect you seem to expect for yourself.

XP and Vista both exhibit long term limitations, there is nothing to suggest their successor will not be the same.


30 September 2008, 2:31 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

GTR42 (User):

Quoting Raindog:
Ah, the sanctity of a closed mind. You expect other to accept you diatribe as opinion, how about showing others the respect you seem to expect for yourself.

XP and Vista both exhibit long term limitations, there is nothing to suggest their successor will not be the same.



30 September 2008, 6:01 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

CBR1100XX (Advanced member):

The kernel itself needs a bit of tuning before MS should start worrying about the taskbar !
It's unobtrusive, tidy and highly configurable anyway :)
And a small 3-button shutdown gadget from the MS download page is a treat if you can't 'find' it on the start menu ....... Sheeeesh !

30 September 2008, 4:15 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

plutonium210 (Advanced member):

As a self-confessed MacTard, I am really disappointed and flabberghasted as to how MS has, not just survived, but flourished through the last decade of derision and condemnation. Why can't Apple/Mac and the like steal some of this thunder.

They produce inferior products and charge exhorbitant prices and give poor support ................. So why do consumers keep buying and supporting their products .................. Arrrrrrrrrgh !!!

30 September 2008, 4:28 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting plutonium210:
So why do consumers keep buying and supporting their products .................. Arrrrrrrrrgh !!!

Time for those tablets, radioactive man !
Seriously, it will always be the case that the dissatisfied vent their anger out on any stage they can access. There are more satisfied MS product devotees than forums like this one would suggest :)




30 September 2008, 4:48 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
There are more satisfied MS product devotees than forums like this one would suggest :)


Doubt it. The number of "satisfied devotees" is far outweighed by the silent majority who don't know there's options. No forum or other media would show their opinions.

30 September 2008, 5:21 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

GTR42 (User):

Tin, you know what they say about assumptions... if you were right, then honestly, do you think Microsoft would STILL be selling XP and Vista by the millions upon millions per month???

Think about it... people vote with their wallets... You can easily buy linux and mac's in the shops for the past few years - the market would be VERY different if the masses were truly unhappy with Microsoft.

Seriously, forums and blogs are the only REAL place that you hear the vocal anti-Microsoft minority... while the rest of the world continues on its so-called merry way (excluding any banking meltdowns LOL) using the software and systems THEY KNOW.

Once again, it comes back to the same old thing; people just don't like change, whether its good for them or not.

30 September 2008, 6:16 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

agami (User):

None of these platforms are worth the lather. Not a single release from Microsoft, not a single distro of Linux, and certainly not OS X or any of the UNIXs. Everything every one of us is running is a colourfully masked echo of systems designed and developed in the 80's and 90's. None of them deserve to be "Dominant" or "Leading", these are mere trends subject to whims of the public.

Sociologically I know you're arguing about your decision to use one tool over another, I mean come on, who is Ug to tell me that my 7-chipped elongated stone knife is inferior to his 6-chipped broad-back stone hammer. The nerve of some folk :)

30 September 2008, 6:19 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

jake (User):

woohooo the task bar is almost 15 years old, iv'e always wanted to know that...

02 October 2008, 7:45 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Actually, the Taskbar is older than that. In 1987 Acorn had a taskbar on their systems. That's 21 years.

02 October 2008, 9:02 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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