APC feels Telstra fury over unfavourable poll

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Dan Warne11 May 2007, 6:09 AM

We received a torrent of angry emails from one of Telstra's PR minders after we published a story yesterday about a poll result on the Telstra website that was unfavourable to the company.


Yesterday, APC reported that nearly 100% of people responding to an online poll on Telstra's corporate blog website voted to say Telstra was responsible for Australians not getting a fibre optic network. That story brought on a torrent of emails from one of Telstra's PR minders.

Feeling Telstra's rage: APC's Dan WarneFeeling Telstra's rage: APC's Dan Warne

I'll start at the ending and work back.

One of the last emails from Telstra PR spinblogger Rod Bruem said "the poll issue has been more great publicity for the site, not at all bothered by it."

Bruem was so unbothered by it that he'd spent his day writing me numerous emails, accusing me of being involved or knowing who supposedly manipulated the poll results, being a liar because I didn't warn him I was publishing the story in advance, and not being a journalist (full stop).

Naturally, it was that last barb that really hurt, because the measure of my success as a journalist is a Telstra PR's opinion. Crushing.

The background to this unprecedented stream of emails was that I contacted Bruem the night before I wrote the story, asking for some basic stats about Telstra's corporate blog, Now We Are Talking. I asked about visitor numbers, composition of the audience, and whether Telstra uses the feedback gathered at NWAT to inform its decision making.

I didn't tell Bruem I was writing a story that summarised the more amusing results of Telstra's research because I didn't actually need any further information from him about it - the results were there in black and white. Nor did I need Telstra's spin on why the research data may or may not have been valid - it was Telstra's data after all. I (wrongly, it seems) assumed they'd stand behind it.

According to Bruem, this was strike number one for me. "Why weren't you upfront about why you were seeking my comments and why didn't you actually ask for a comment on the issue were actually going to write about. Why are you so dishonest?" wrote Bruem in his first email to me.

I responded that I asked direct questions, and that there was no deception in my questions. Quite simply, a journalist doesn't need to ask a company's permission to write a story about them, and since I was simply summarising Telstra's own research data, I wasn't seeking further comment on it from them.

(For the record, Bruem knows I am a journalist, has dealt with me for years, and knows that I frequently ask Telstra for comment, especially if someone's lobbed an accusation against them.)

"You should acquaint yourself with the journalist code of ethics... But then of course you're not a real journalist are you?" Bruem replied back in a one-line email.

As graduate of RMIT's B.A. Journalism, a graded member of the journalism professional body Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance and an online editor at ACP Magazines, I queried what Bruem's definition of 'journalist' was.

Bruem's response? "You could apologise and I will apologise for attacking your credentials."

"I've never been lied to before by anyone in the media about a story as trivial as this," he snapped.

For a "trivial" story, Bruem sure was taking it to heart and spending a good part of his day sending me emails.

At about the same time, Telstra pulled the poll from its own site. Bruem told me it had been "rigged" and that he knew "because when [sic] can track it when someone votes more than once."

I asked why on earth Telstra's voting system allows people to vote more than once. "Isn't that a basic design no-no in any kind of polling system?"

Bruem also took the opportunity to put a conspiracy theory to me: "your ready-to-go-blog on the subject makes me suspect you perhaps know something about who was behind the rigging."

Actually, the first I'd heard of this poll was when a friend of mine IMed me and pointed out the result. I jumped on the story because I figured readers would be pretty interested to see Telstra's own research data revealing some inconvenient truths.

To my query about the robustness of Telstra's polling system, Bruem responded: "The poll voting system requires some engineering to vote more than once, as you probably know, ore [sic] perhaps your 'friend' does."

I hadn't even seen the poll until the result was pointed out to me, but in response to Bruem's theory, I suspect it's likely that Whirlpool.net.au members who saw mention of the poll in their online forums flooded it with their votes. If that's indeed the case [and I actually have no idea if it is since Telstra hasn't released the referrer stats for the votes], it's not ‘rigging', but simply a group of respondents that Telstra doesn't agree with.

Rod Bruem's comments seem to corroborate this theory: he told News Limited today that "Telstra-haters were directed to vote in the poll via popular blog http://www.whirlpool.net.au/"

"I guess Bruem had been hoping that only the Telstra-lovers they had been sending mailouts to would participate," said Whirlpool news editor Phil Sweeney.

The emails from Bruem ceased as quickly as they started and now the company has removed polls from the homepage of its site altogether.

The twist in this odd tale is that Telstra itself has been implicated in poll rigging. Some years ago, a Telstra staffer discovered that a ZDNet Australia poll about people's opinion on Telstra BigPond had a loophole allowing individuals to vote more than once.

ZDNet reported that he arranged for the results to be hugely inflated in Telstra's favour, prompting ZDNet Australia to do some digging about the source of the votes. It soon discovered a single IP address on Telstra's corporate network was the source of the votes.

It was investigated in a Senate Estimates hearing at the time, and Telstra's response was to blame ZDNet for making it possible to vote more than once.

"...it might seem unreasonable not to apologise but there could be quite reasonable reasons why, if we felt that a survey was not appropriately conducted, we would not see it as appropriate to apologise," said Telstra's Managing Director of Human Resources, Bill Scales.

The contractor involved then told Whirlpool that Telstra PR staff had found it "incredibly funny", but despite that, had told him he was no longer required at the company.


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tin:

Don't worry Dan... You are a real journalist. The Telstra-paid ones, like those writing for Telstra's NWAT site, probably don't get this many readers. ;-) 



29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Rob G:

Very amusing. You made my day by publically exposing the rubbish that Telstra PR seem to 'con' the masses with.

Love it

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Charles:

Great story Dan. Perhaps if Telstra didn't waste so much money on PR and marketing, they could afford to charge reasonable, fair rates for access, and the rest of the industry wouldn't be so against them.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Alpha_Numerical:

Telstra got what it had coming. It's lucky they are still alive and working to full capacity.

A little bird told me many internet groups are ready to serve Telstra with a deadline to improve internet services and remove their deathgrip on the industry for internet data and communications.

Be sure to put out some seeds, maybe it will fly over and tell you more.

CultDeadCow.com
BOW TO THE COW.


29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Marty H:

Makes me wonder if it was cDc's finest who was behind this particular exercise in "democracy" (apparently it was you who coined the term 'hacktivism'!).

Perhaps after that deadline you speak of you're going to pwn the big T.

That's what someone could perhaps read from that. But you're not really suggesting that, are you?

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

P Burgess:

Hi Dan,
What's This rubbish about it being rigged?
I'll bet London to a brick that it wasn't at all rigged.
I first I heard of it was in the whirlpool forums and bulk e-mailed off many like-minded friends who would be interested in voting on that propaganda sight, as did many other whirlpoolians.

Who on earth would bother repeatedly deleting cookies so they can vote again?

Rigged ? - No Heavily inundated by voters on a public poll ? - Yes !

NWAT by it's very existence is a blog-site one should not take seriously, It's there to humour us, and otherwise brighten up a dull day ... the fictitious stories told by there editors are there to entertain us and make us laugh,
Nothing More.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

tin:

Using wget would allow a one line command that votes every time you run it... No need to manually delete cookies and such.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Macca:

I have to laugh at Telstra, who do they think they are fooling with their ridiculous propaganda like this now we're talking site? Obviously not the readers of the site haha. Blaming Whirlpool or anything else for "rigging" the poll results is a joke.

Keep fighting the good fight Dan, as long as there's good journos out there like yourself calling Telstra on their rubbish hopefully the majority of the public will continue to see through Telstra's deception.

You will fail Telstra, you will not have your stinking monopoly back over this countries telecommunications.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Peter Sbarski:

This story is shocking! Bruem ought to be ashamed. He should apologize immediately and so should Telstra as his employer.

 

Don’t let this get you down Dan. Keep up the good work. We have your back.



29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dave:

This certainly isn't going to prove positive for Telstra's cause. Instead of employing these 'now with added rhetoric' people to degrade the face of their business, Telstra should actually act on the issues that they whinge about.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

It's exactly these kind of tactics that has whipped public hatred of Telstra into a frenzy! I've less than eloquently tried to make many of the points you have neatly summarised in this post. The "Now We are Spin-doctoring" website and the documentation being enclosed with Telstra's customer and share holder mail-outs is scurrilous.

That website is a sad joke of Telstra positive propaganda, anyone taking the time to read it should also google "Tell the Truth Telstra" and go read the T4 website for a few honest debunks.

I'd like to see Telstra offer the same tolerance of varied opinion on their site that are available on Whirlpool or on this APC site, but I'm not about to hold my breath waiting for it to happen. The Telstra propaganda site has insistently encourages its readers to mail and e-mail government, and that is good advise!

I encourage everyone to do this and to let the Government and regulators know in no uncertain terms what they think of Telstra's tactics.

We need to let Government and regulators know exactly who we the public think is responsible for holding Australian telecommunications back. Telstra say they want a level playing field, so I'm sure Telstra wouldn't object to open opinion. And dont forget to CC those emails to Sol and to the Telstra PR department, if they believe it is fair game to mail bomb individuals with a preset propaganda piece then they should be more than happy to receive a similar volumes of the public's open minded correspondence!

Trust score

Dan Warne 97.5%

Other 2.2%

Telstra 0.3%



29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

justthething84:

This topic is all over the news. When is Telstra going to finally realise that it's not as well liked as it thought?

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

For the record I wasn't quick enough to a vote on the Telstra poll it had been removed by the time I'd read of it.
Any poll system simplistic enough to allow multiple votes just by clearing cookies is a poor reflection of the professionalism of the organisation posting that poll.
I doubt the real truth of who responded will ever be known!

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

necrokingston:

How dear you claim the Telstra reflected poor professionalism!!!

Damn, I'm surprised you placed professionalism and Telstra in the same sentence. lol

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Lowell:

And Telstra wonder why they're reviled so much at times. Unbelievable.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Ryan:

Just recently it seems that Telstra is acting like a child, it wants everything for itself and doesn't want to share (FTTN), doesn't want to own up to money owed (NRL) and now this. Ok the poll may have been rigged, but the comments by Mr Bruem just added to the reminder that the new Telstra is like a spoilt brat.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

meeeee:

I wonder where they think all the Telstra supporters were hiding then if they didn't vote. :)

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

He has his RDO Fridays!

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Ben Anderson:

Hehe, not good for this guy. Now anytime I hear Telstra and Breum in the same sentence I won't be all happy and cheery.

The thing that sucks for Telstra is that we pay them, so we get to attack them all the time. But they bathe in the riches. If they don't like it, give the many dollars of profit back.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Aubrey:

Seriously - it was a good story and certainly in the public interest (in the proper sense - not just "of interest"). The behaviour of Telstra is of real concern to your readers. I am not someone who has had a strong opinion either way on who is to blame for the poor state of Australian broadband services, but seeing that phony (and quite juvenile) fan site and reading your articles has given me a fair idea who not to trust. The FUD they throw around rivals the efforts of another large ITC corporation (that also enjoys a monopolistic market share) I shall not name.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

T-BONE:

Seriously awesome work Dan. Glad you wrote the truth about this and I am particularly glad you remembered to mention the poll rigging Telstra did those few years ago. I can't believe how Bruem is behaving. It does seem the other news websites are sinking the boot into Telstra about this current poll going against them. It is truly hard for me to stifle laughter about all of this. Once again good work Dan.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Return Ziggy:

I recently attempted to publish on the NWAT blog that despite the telstra advertised coverage claims that when I attempted to use my Telstra wireless modem on three trips out of Sydney- to Palm Beach and Manilla in NSW and Palm Cove in QLD- my contribution was witheld. All I got was an offer of an inquiry into why it was so.
This defeated the purpose of honest reporting by me and headed off the supposed free speech where it was against their self promotion and corporate interest.
The site is a sham on the subject of public opinion and the only surprise is that they published the result of the poll that Dan drew to our attention.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Paul:

I had to cough when Bruem described whirlpool as a popular blog, as its actually a news site + forum + ISP listing. Its Telstra own NowWeAreSquawking site which is the blog.

At a very basic level Whirlpool supplies the sort of information Telstra refuse to, like how to (maybe) get off pairgain so you can actually get ADSL.

While most phone companies around the world are spending to money to give their customers the products they actually want, Telstra so far refuse to. Treat your customers as Cash Cows and you deserve any form of retribution they give in return.

APC got it right, I'll bet lots of people on whirlpool voted. As those who have been most dudded by Telstra in the past (or present!) and found out just what the full problems out there are, they are the best people out there to make an educated vote.

Having talked to a few of Telstra engineers and linesmen, they too resent management. The general concensus they give is "sure if it were up to us you and the other 260 odd houses would have broadband. And we know we would get the money back on the install".

Nothing is going to change untill either Sol or Telstra itself vanishes.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

tin:

I agree on getting rid of Sol.
He's been extremely anti-regulation, even though the regulations themselves are not getting in the way of anything.
Sol's anti-wholesale thing is getting old... Wholesale customers are the ones you NEED to keep happy. They are the biggest customers you can have.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

It's not just Sol -- it's the board that brought him in as CEO to begin with. And any board that would green light a move like the NWAT website and give carte-blanche to PR staff has to expect much closer scrutiny from shareholders and regulators alike.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Paul R:

I too have friends whom work for Testra, mostly field work and there tracked by GPS constantly, It's a sad indictment on our society when  people like R Bruem and his ilk are allowed to run one of the country's biggest companies. Thanks Dan, for shedding light on this .. you're one professional Journalist who isn't afraid to tell it like it is.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Bill:

You can still view the poll results here

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Rod:

Ha ha and have a look at the latest poll....... "Have you ever tried to rig an online poll" Results: yes-2.4%, wouldn't know how-48.2%, no-49.4%

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

rellik:

The new management at Telsta have done no favours to its shareholders just because Sol managed to gain concessions in the USA does not mean he can achieve it here. All this money being wasted on advertising etc has yet to gain one concession. Personally I think maybe we should start a Yankee go home campaign

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

JR:

Telsta must start honestly trying to offer people the best deal instead of trying to extract maximum dollars. Until that day comes, they will continue to be publicly berated by one and all!

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

bill:

Alas Telstra can't just cut it's prices down because all the 3rd party ISPs will complain that they can't make money.

Also the current laws mean that Telstra has to pass all new plan changes and pricing through to the ACCC and if they deem them to be un-fair (IE: cut into 3rd party ISp profits) too much they don't approve the changes and you Telstra can't change it's plans.

Talk about ham string hey...

You want Telstra to put out cheap prices but you don't want Telstra to control it's own pricing structure and you wonder why the current system is screwed for everyone.


29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

Why does it have to affect wholesale customers. Telstra could leave wholesale exactly where it is still pocket the lions share like Telstra do now and concentrate on making the Telstra retail product salable rather than the overpriced lock-in trap for the unwary it is now.

If Telstra can't match the opposition providers for price they are simply incapable of operating efficiently.

Maybe NWAT could run a poll on who wants pay per view crud and other bundled rubish, verses who'd prefer a polite efficient well run service provider, but then that's another poll NWAT would have to take down prematurely.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

toby:

I find it interesting that a person will defend Telstra and blame the ACCC.

I suppose you're gonna blame ACCC for:

(1) Telstra being the ONLY company in Australia that meters uploads AND downloads? (While everyone else just counts downloads).

(2) Telstra being the company that started the "charge by the megabyte" once you go over your monthly quota?

And finally,

(3) Telstra sticking me on a "pair gain", so I cannot get ADSL/ADSL2+! (Even though my local exchange has third-party DSLAMs from multiple ISPs!)

You're full of it.

Telstra has been charging high internet prices for approx 9yrs now. Ever since their 500MB/month cable plans (35 cents per MB once over) during 1998, to today's so called "Extreme" or "Liberty" plans.

Telstra has NEVER been about value for money. Its about ripping off the average Jane/Joe computing user. Those who don't have a damn clue that they're being ripped off.

Any other BS excuse you wanna come up with? *rollseyes*

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

JR:

As pointed out by others on this post, RETAIL and WHOLESALE prices are seperate issues. When was the last time the ACCC prevented Telstra from offering the best prices to RETAIL customers?

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

john:

How about when Telstra offered Broadband for $29.95 last year and got slapped down by the ACCC for doing so as it's price was deemed to be un-compeditive. Telstra is not allowed to compete on price as it is bound to the strict controls the ACCC places on them. I wish that the playing field was indeed level, then we would see true competition and real investment by compeditors in their own infrastructure rather than just using Telstra's in the name of competition.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

justthething84:

ACCC is there to prevent Telstra from charging too much.

Telstra's plans are too expensive because they are doing it in the interests of share holders.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Jon:

Wrong, the ACCC stops Telsta from charging prices which are deemed too low and anti-compeditive also, if Telstra lowers its price on a particular service and the competition whinges, the ACCC places a competition notice on Telstra. Telstra is not allowed to compete on price and therefore tries to compete in other ways such as value added services and providing a superior network/service to it's compeditors. If everyone in the Telecommunications industry could charge what they wanted, prices would definetaly be cheaper, but at this stage it is just competition for the sake of competition rather than competition for the sake of low prices.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

justthething84:

i called the accc weeks ago and they told me that they make sure Telstra doesn't charge too much for services (rather than charging too little).



29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dan Warne:

It's a bit of both -- the ACCC ensures Telstra doesn't charge too little at retail, or too much at wholesale.

Either situation makes it impossible for smaller companies to compete effectively at pricepoints similar to Telstra's, which is what the ACCC is charged by law with preventing, due to Telstra's immense market power. 



29 February 2008, 8:43 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

bill:

So after wasting my time reading this "story"

What's the point of the last story and now this story?

its only proved that the Telstra polls were rigged and that you use questionable ethics to get a story.


29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

David Perth:

Hi all,
My partner recently quit a telstra call center in Perth. Why?
Well lets see: If you dont sell 5 broadbands (submissions) a week you get your managers boot in your bum. You get counciled and manipulated into thinking that you wont have a job after probation and that its you is the problem - not telstra's pricing!! She mentioned it at many meetings, did management listen or care - absolutly not! Why? Well their on 80/20 salary - if their team (usually around 15 or so people) doesn't make the monthly stats for broandband submissions etc.. they only get 80% of their pay. (Team leaders are on about $65k anually whilst calconsulants are on $42k~ anually.) I remember my partner telling me about the high staff turnover in the call centers, I remember my partner telling me about the death threats from people and the lies that were told to customers so that they could meet their weekly submissions.
So from an internal ex employee point of view - you can also see what happens to the staff at the bottom of the food chain!

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Roggie:

The article in question doesn't prove anything about if the polls were rigged.

There is no collection of IP addresses recorded for the poll.

If there was, this would be proof that it was rigged OR the reality of the situation. (That is, Telstra doesn't want to face how people really feel about them...Especially on a Pro-Telstra site!)

I find it interesting that a person like yourself defends Telstra twice within the same hour.

And then you attack the purpose of the article! Wasting "your time"? You didn't have to read the article in the first place! It is YOU who chose to waste your OWN TIME. (You show signs of desperation, if you try to make trivial arguments such as this).

It leads me to believe that you are either: a Telstra employee OR you are a "rewarded third-party" paid to speak in favour of Telstra.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Stephen:

Telstra has sunk to a new low with all this viral marketing and now the polls backfire and they get upset. It is a disturbing trend to see Telstra devotees spamming comments for stories and forums, with comments that never stray from the company line. It is always easy to pick them.


29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

justthething84:

Telstra Bigpond will never beat the truth and that is it's a huge company that rips innocent people off through their OVERpriced broadband plans. Even if they bother to have their squadron of 'telstra active supporters' out there posting positive comments in favour of Telstra they won't beat the majority. We all know they are too expensive and something needs to be done about it. Polls and forums prove the truth about what sort of a company Telstra has always been.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Westly Russell:

I will do business with Telstra if there is no choice, otherwise I will not, even if the service I want is free from Telstra. I have had more than enough of what passes for "service".

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Peter Avram:

I just did some really simple maths. I calculated the number of votes that went each way in that poll.
(using the link posted above to the past results)
I then averaged the number of respondants from the last 30 polls. (some of these are abnormally high ~2000, LOTS of them are abnormally low ~100). so I figure it would all wash out. (the average you get strikes your mind as about 300, which wouldnt cut it for this poll as discarding telstra theres already more than 300 responses. I digress). The average of the last 30 polls (not including the 2 questionable ones most recently) without ignoring outliers, was 500. (525 rounded down). so, calculating out those numbers the new percentages for each response is as follows.

  • Government 15.13

  • ACCC 50.96

  • Telstra 26.43

  • G9 2.49

  • Don’t know 2.49

  • Truncated 2.49 (their percentages add up to 99.9)


Now, you might want to ignore some of the votes for telstra, but you can't ignore all of them. This does ofcourse only fix up the responses to the Telstra answer; there are telstra supporters on whirlpool (despite what telstra would claim), so it is conceivable that indeed some of the other responses would have been inflated also. (ie. this tries to edit out the whirlpool fudgery, but the other responses would have been atleast alittle inflated due to whirlpool too).

Now, my maths isnt flawless, (outliers etc.) but, it indicates that Telstra while it may not have copped ALL the blame, still got a sizable percentage, on a PR website for itself no-less. Indeed, with such a complex issue, all the blame cant be heaped on one entity, and 25% of such a big problem is still a huge percentage.


29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

justthething84:

im so confused

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

"Now, my maths isnt flawless" Clearly! And logic or reason are probably not your strong suites either.

How did that old saying go "Lies, Damned Lies, and Telstra Propaganda!".

The Whirlpool readership would be a quite reliable cross section of serious users (those to whom Broadband Capabilities would be most important) and as you said yourself it would include some masochistic souls that even favoured Telstra.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Peter Avram:

I will grant you perhaps my explanation is abit rough. Lets go through it again with very rough numbers shall we?
There was an average of about 500 respondants to the last 30 polls on their sites.
Ignoring responses to the Telstra answer, the other answers in this poll add to 350 responses.
So, if it were an average poll.
It may have alotted about 150 responses to Telstra. (500 - 350 = 150)
Now; this is a Telstra PR site, where the usual readers are only those able to stomach the Telstra PR line right?
So 25% in those circumstances is STILL very bad for Telstra!! I don't see how my post is pro Telstra atall. (as your post seems to imply?). This is a cherry picked cross-section, and they STILL think telstra is 25% to blame?

Your response implies to me you are a Telstra hater. Someone who jumps on anything they think is pro Telstra, not because they honestly think its a bad point being made, but simply because its somehow pro Telstra. All of which implies a lack of reason in your own comments. So please, read before you react, and take something more than just face-value from what people say.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

justthething84:

your whole maths thing was just confusing. let's talk about the poll and the situation Telstra and the government is in. I don't see your point in averaging numbers and clearly providing results that are just wrong.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

No I didn't accuse you of being pro telstra, hell that's something you wouldn't wish on a brown dog on a wet night.

I am unashamedly Anti-Telstra but I do try to accompany any argument with some form of reason.

Your averaging of previous poll result percentages is flawed, it would perhaps have some merit if the Telstra poll had been hacked or had received mass postings from a few individual IP's. But Telstra have refused to produce such evidence so it is most unlikely it exists.

Telstra mouthpiece Mr Bruem stated in no uncertain terms that this poll was influenced by a mass of votes from the whirlpool.net.au readers. Unlike the Telstra site whirlpool has no particular bias for or against any provider. Reading the posts on whirlpool they simply alerted readers that the poll existed, there is no call to arm for a massed Anti-Testra vote there.

So put simply whilst the Whirlpool notifications have almost certainly inflated the numbers of respondents.
Those extra votes are a more representative across the board sample of public opinions this pushes the pro Telsra votes bias of NWAT faithful back to a the statistical aberration of opinion they actually represent.

Anyway you look at it Telstra was the overwhelming winner of the "holding back telecommunications" stakes. Unless clear evidence of multiples votes can be produced the result stand as published.


29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

tin:

The reason there were so many extra voters in some polls was because people pointed them out to whirlpool readers. These polls were more or less the ones that people on whirlpool got upset about.

Just like the "poll rigging poll" they have now which would be mostly APC readers that have voted.

The other polls they've had haven't offended whirlpolians enough to bother loading the dodgy site.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymous34234:

The diatribes that these guys come out with are unbelievable.

In any case, Rod Bruem is nothing but a puppet to Telsta's agenda.

Great work on exposing Roddles two-faced behavior, very reflective of TLS as a whole.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Mark:

Sigh, what a cheap shot Dan. A professional journalist should seek context behind figures before publishing a story. Also bagging Telstra is just the flavour of the day, all you have accomplished here is perpetuating hate for your own gain. I for one am bored of this kind of cheap shot reporting. Have you nothing better to report on? Is this biased airing of dirty laundry all that APC has to offer these days?

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

OS:

And what authority do you have on the ethics of journalism Mark? The development of a high-speed broadband network is an issue of national interest - Telstra went so far as to survey its readers as to who is responsible for its delay. Just a little embarrasing for Rod and team to find that that the spotlight's on them - Telstra is anti-competitive, period. They're blogging strategy is self-serving. Thank you Dan for putting the spotlight on these agressive PR practises.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Aubrey:

Cheap shot? I don't think so. Telstra's behaviour and ethics is an important issue of public interest. The fact that such a big controller of vital infrastructure appears to be dominated by people that seem to focus on personal attacks is something I take pretty seriously. Or are you saying that we should all know this already and that the story is therefore redundant? And I must say that, as a citizen and broadband user, I was more offended by the other content of the pro-telstra site than I was by Dan's article.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

How is this biased reporting? Where did the figures come from? Mr Bruem's replies were accurately reprinted were they not?

And perpetuating hate? where did that come from, APC simply reported the facts as they stood. It was Mr Bruem who was making threats and questioning integrity even though he was fully aware of the qualifications of his recipient. Do a quick Google search on Rod Bruem you will soon see it's not just APC he is heavy handed with.

There is hardly an Australian IT journo working today that hasn't copped his vitriol for any non NWAT comment. I could print out a list but it's pretty much a who's who of current IT journos.

Bagging Telstra is no "flavour of the day" it's a groundswell that will not cease until the stranglehold is broken. APC just reports, the opinions are the public's own, around 97% of the public it would seem.



29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

justthething84:

This article is one of the most important articles to crop up on the APC website in a long time.

It is important because it fuels people's hate for Telstra even further – because it exposes the bull crap that Telstra has been feeding the public for years.

Shame on you Mark for being such an imbecile. Of course this article is important just look at the numbers of people interested in this topic compared to other comment pages. Are you another spin doctor trying to turn the volume down on these issues?

Congratulations to APC for bringing these important issues to us readers. It's companies like APC and forums like Whirlpool that give the average person a chance to express their frustrations over ugly monopolies like Telstra.

If anyone says these issues aren’t important is just plain ignorant.


29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Not Mark (I don't work for Telstra):

I wouldn't post positive Telstra comments without putting some content in them

If the effort exerted in spin this stuff was directed at entering into a dialogue with the community we may have some hope

I would NEVER use telstra unless I had no option

I would rather be ripped off by someone else (At least they pull my pants down first)

My Name is not

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Storm:

While I was reading all the press about it, including the the piece in The Age yesterday, I figured I'd have a look at the Telstra site in question and found an article called "Slipping Standards" where the brief outline reads: "Blogger Rod Bruem meets the 7.30 Report presenter Kerry O'Brien and shares his concern for slipping standards in journalism". Oh and look at the date of this, the 12th -- the day after his petulant war of words on Dan!  The irony must be lost on Rod. Well, I think I'll leave it here before I cop the wrath of Telstra too ...

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Mark:

Ah the accusations fly about being a telstra lackey! When it comes to Telstra products and services I suggest you read the contracts and compare the products. I did and I voted in the only way that matters, with my feet. With that out of the way I stand by my comments on this article being biased, by his own admission Dan states that he didn't get the full story before writing this up. All this article amounts to is a bunch of quotes from a private email exchange taken out of context. As for this article being important based on the number of comments; any journo knows that bagging an already unpopular target and throwing in a few saucy quotes from personal emails means you're set to go for a good time. Don't mind printing facts, obviously most readers don't care. Which is why articles like this one are still allowed to be published. I would suggest that Dan settle his personal arguments out of the public forum and get on with real journalism.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dan Warne:

Mark (and others who are interested) can read the entire email exchange (which is almost entirely quoted in the article anyway).

As for your accusation that I don't 'print facts', do feel free to highlight any factual inaccuracies in my stories.

And as for whether it's a 'personal argument' -- how a company spokesman deals with the media is not 'personal'. The media is an advocate of the public, so when a company spokesman treats media with contempt, he is, by association, treating the public with contempt -- and that view is pretty well reflected by the vast majority of the comments here, Mark.

The only point you've raised that has any contention at all is whether I should have given Bruem the full context of the story I was going to write when I first contacted him. I've already explained in the story above and numerous comments why I didn't.

You and Rod may think that I should have given him my whole story for the Telstra rubber stamp before publishing it, but the reality is it wasn't necessary. There are many circumstances where seeking response it is necessary, but this was not one of them.



29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

How is this a personal argument, Mark?. When Rod Bruem attempts to nobble any journo who wont act as his personal copy boy I'd like to know about it! And it would be poor ethics indeed not to expose such actions from a PR person.

Bruem's latest reference to junior journalists while greasing up to K.OB was clearly a reference to Dan. Yet the position Dan holds, "Online Editor" is exactly the position from which Mr Bruem demands respect.

If this is a personal battle then Mr Bruem is having more than his fair share of personal battles with journalists.

Your assertion that the public are idiots is offensive to the extreme and though it is probably accurate generalisation, there are still many members of the public that can walk and chew gum at the same time.
I've checked up the facts on this story as I do for most things I read. Personality clashes are inevitable in any ideological battle but when checking the facts it is clear Mr Bruem has clashed with almost everyone.

Reporting on the behavior spin and misinformation coming from NWAT is good and valuable journalism, the public has a right to know and a right to varied opinions.

If Sol, Rod and the guy with the crotchless business suit are at loggerheads with Government, with the opposition, with the regulator, with the public, with industry analysts, with thier customers, and with many of their shareholders, then dont you see a pattern emerging? Where is the common denominator in this picture?

Thanks for these articles APC, they dont form opinions, they simply provide pieces of information to help rational opinions be formed.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

justthething84:

Some of the wording Mark uses above is what Bigpond employees use in their reply emails to customers. He mentions "I voted in the only way that matters, with my feet" which are similar words that were used in a reply email from Bigpond manager to me recently with the same comment using the words "voted with their feet".

It's funny to notice how much he also hates Telstra by looking on the other comment page "What Telstra didn't want to hear" at http://www.apcmag.com/6078/what_telstra_didnt_want_to_hear The other comment page is to do with the same topic as this and he says "BTW i do actually hate telstra" and then Kevin goes on to reply and say "mark i agree with u fully".

By the way Mark, Dan doesn't need to write articles like this to stir people up because as you can see by people's comments WE already hate Telstra.

Thanks Dan this is a great opportunity to express how we already feel and to get it out in the open. Non IT people use Bigpond because they are unfamiliar with other ISPs and Telstra takes advantage of this. There are no regulations causing Telstra to charge their ridiculous amounts, in fact the ACCC tries to prevent companies charging too much in the first place.



29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Potoroo:

In an article in yesterday's Age the ubiquitous Mr Bruem said Telstra hoped to have a new and improved Whirlpool-proof version of that poll up but as of late today it's still not there. Keep tracking it though!

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

The Poll is back up! So feel free to vote. "One per customer" we wouldn't want them to dismiss the results, would we.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

robert:

Given the standard Telstra response to anybody who has the temerity to criticize them, check out the revealing photo of Sol in full cry in page 22 of yesterdays Sydney Morning Herald (15/5/2007). Is it just me or does the photo inspire images of Nuremburg 1938? A wonder Telstra hasn't complained about the bias in publishing the photo.  robert

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

The latest piece of spin article associated with the return of the Telstra poll still has Bruem getting stuck into Dan and Whirlpool. Dan even gets credited with the creation of Whirlpool. (again incorrect)

The replies to his piece show more than a few media heavyweights chiming in, in Dan's defense. Interesting reading!



Update:

Mr Bruem has removed his latest editorial piece, citing the reason as "Complaints from Dan Warne". Despite taking a pasting from numerous media commentators Mr Bruem still had to sink the boot in one last time. Bruem however does concede that he no longer believed Dan to be associated with rigging of any poll. I guess that's the mark of the man and as close anyone could expect from him in the form of apology.

Further Update:

As predicted by many the new improved and tamper proof Poll2 dissapeared without trace or comment from Telstra or NWAT.

Last word from Craig Middleton was to call it a "silly poll". Questions as to why Telstra or NWAT would post a silly poll still remain unanswered.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Scott:

I am a voice Telstra!! and I vote..

I don’t have faith in your integrity or confidence that you a Telco company, regard your customers as important entities that create your business. You, like your mouth pieces, have become ever increasingly arrogant and seem to embrace the schoolyard bully tactic. And Telstra does seem to think that this aggressive and argumentative behaviour is better than actually listening. Well it might work for the moment, and on the minority, BUT watch out if Australia bands together. Our voice can be loud, and our pockets can be closed to corporate greed. Have you felt this yet ?

With each trick and each side step, your competitors become ever more powerful. And maybe, with some saying this is a little naive, one day a Telco will listen, not just preach to listen, but take up the needs of the people... Will the headstone then read RIP Telstra?

But hey, as long as you keep getting your bonuses, immediate profits is all that is required!! At the sacrifice of........


29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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