Apple won't work on Macs owned by smokers

texasboy1 (New user):

this is something that is ridiculous. once again, apple trying to man handle and control everything by refusing service to customers who smoke. that is not only discrimination, but i smell that apple has screwed themselves over by stating that smokers will not be cared for. as if they needed any more negative impacts on their company.

Tin (User):

How is it ridiculous? Warranty is denied if they find the user has tipped liquids in. They would also void the warranty if the user kept an ant farm inside it. Neither of these have ever drawn comments from people denied warranty.

There are 2 options if you really really find this offensive:
1) Stop smoking. You'll see other benefits aswell, such as increased cash to spend on other things, better health, and less stench.
or
2) Stop smoking inside where the computer is.

Tin (User):

I say good on them. I hate opening a customers computer only to discover you have a layer of moist, stinking, sticky tobacco gunk. It's horrible to remove, and usually gets itself into every nook and cranny.

Raindog (New user):

Why stop at smokers?

Apple could refuse warranty for all machines used by women, because heaven knows how much decaying food stuff is lurking under the keys of each and every keyboard they use. Definate biohazard.

And as for masturbators, well the less said the better, but none the less, Warranty Voided again.

BrownieBoy (User):

Quoting Raindog:
And as for masturbators, well the less said the better

Far be it from me to cross swords on a subject that's obviously a strong suit for you, but I think that if you aim your ermm... discharge away from the keyboard, you should be okay.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting BrownieBoy:
Far be it from me to cross swords

What you do in your bedroom, bathroom, dungeon or trapeze, with or without a partner are your own private business and best kept that way.
And you will not it was stated the less said the better.

Quoting BrownieBoy:
but I think that if you ............

Again while you may wish share your personal experience/expertise with the world and think it may be of benefit, I'll once again remind you, the less that is said the better.

BrownieBoy (User):

No sympathy for smokers at all. For years, they were able to blow their disgusting, poison-laced cloud over the rest of us, and didn't seem to care all that much about it.

Now, at last, we've kicked them out of the workplace, the pubs and restaurants; the only down-side being that it's almost impossible to enjoy the beer garden, which has become "the smoking area" for these pathetic addicts.

And it's not discrimination: you're not born a smoker. You deserve whatever you get, IMHO. Give it up and do everybody a favour, including yourself, not least.

Hicks (New user):

As someone who deals with Warranty repairs a lot I am wondering if Apple get away with this how long before other manufacturers follow this, if Nicotine is present on the lists they are within their rights though, it will be an interesting story to follow. Wont be long before Tech's will have to carry out warranty repairs in a clean room with a bio hazard suit.

I've informed my boss about this story as being a retailer I try and keep him informed of changes in the industry from the Tech point of view, people don't realize that if something like this comes into effect it's going to have wide reaching consequences.

Aubrey (New user):

Well there you go. And I thought computer components were full of toxic stuff by design. But by all means let's reinforce popular social predjudice by isolating a group we can all agree are less worthy. Let's punish them! I think paedophile's computers should not get a warranty at all. And queue jumping refugees and financial advisors while we are at it.

Surely the issue is what's actually inside the box, not the personal habits of the owner?

Is this a case of Apple being PC? Now that would be confusing.

Aubrey (New user):

Is this Apple being PC?

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Aubrey:
I think [censorship keyword]'s computers should not get a warranty at all. And queue jumping refugees and financial advisors while we are at it.

Not sure about all of those but certainly medical practicioners, religious organisations and financial advisors should be denied warranty. I mean after all what kind of warranty do they offer their own clients?

Tin (User):

Someone's job or social status is extremely different to someone's toxic habits.

Would it any different to refuse warranty if they found an exploded bag of cocaine in the computer?

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Tin:
Would it any different to refuse warranty if they found an exploded bag of cocaine in the computer?

Is that common, where you work?

Tin (User):

No, but it's pretty much the same thing. If someone is going to abuse the hardware by operating it in an unsuitable environment, then they deserve to have the warranty voided.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Tin:
by operating it in an unsuitable environment,

What is a suitable environment, no such thing for a portable. Where does it end? Is a private schoolboys satchel a suitable environment? Surely it's a matter of degree, common sense, and individual circumstance.

I'd agree completely that any machine lagen with nicotine goo to the point of fouling is a candidate for warrantee refusal, but not every smokers machine is in that condition. The blanket statement issued by apple is illegal with an accompanying clause of exclusion added to the warranty terms and conditions.

Yes I have had to open machines full of nico-cheese and it's not fun and warrantee is not appropriate. But refusing service because some narky tech is upset by a whiff of stale cigarettes is over-reaction to the extreme. My nasal senses have been upset more than once by the less than pleasant odors of backroom narky techs, should we ban them too?

And for the record Raindog does not smoke.

Aubrey (New user):

Quoting Tin:
Would it any different to refuse warranty if they found an exploded bag of cocaine in the computer?

Just out of interest, Tin, was that a Black Pentium M Tower with three DVD drives and a 500Gb Seagate HDD? I wondered where that one had got to.

petert (Advanced Forumologist):

I'm with Apple. I can only begin to imagine how disgusting the inside of a computer or laptop would be after a long period of sucking-in smoke. It does represent a bio-hazard! I would be interested in hearing from WorkCover on their thoughts on this matter.

Your Average Joe (User):

Good onya Apple!

We're starting to see alot more of this.
It's the same as barbers refusing to cut hair because of grubbiness or lice and service being denied if you are on your mobile while being served.

plutonium210 (New user):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
service being denied if you are on your mobile while being served.

Or pubs refusing to serve drunks ............... Damn them ;)

On a serious note, it is obviously not an isolated incident for Apple to put this potocol in place. And I certainly would not like to be in a work environment where I perceived my health was at risk.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting plutonium210:
Or pubs refusing to serve drunks ............... Damn them
.......I certainly would not like to be in a work environment where I perceived my health was at risk.

So you want to drink poison as a leisure activity and your worried about the obscure potential health risks associated with notebook service?

How many people expire in our wide brown land from alcohol consumption related incidents and then compare this with the number who have passed away due to laptop service related side effects.

Based on the popularist love of all things OH&S shouldn't we ban alcohol as soon as possible? Or are we selective where we perceive risks to be?

plutonium210 (New user):

Quoting Raindog:
Based on the popularist love of all things OH&S shouldn't we ban alcohol as soon as possible?

It is here at work.

Quoting Raindog:
So you want to drin poison as a leisure activity

Yes! At my leisure, not at my work.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting plutonium210:
It is here at work.

Have you worked out why that is?



Quoting plutonium210:
Yes! At my leisure, not at my work.

Maybe not your work but certainly someone elses.Like I said self interest, particularly when it all goes pear shaped, the bar staff, the hotelier, the brewery, Police officers, hospital and ambulance staff are all supposed to be now somehow responsible.

All this OH&S nonsense does is duck shove responsibility, it does nothing to protect people from their greatest risk, themselves.

While it's not exactly the most enjoyable task, there are no documented instances of death or serious injury ever occuring due to nicotine residue within a notebook.

The Big Baboo (New user):

Quoting plutonium210:
And I certainly would not like to be in a work environment where I perceived my health was at risk.
Heh he I was working in a factory full of glass dust for nearly 30 years,I still smoke,I still drink and god dammit,Neither "Raindog" or Apple are going to stop me.

Raindog (New user):

Stop you? If it wasn't for you complete inability to differentiate a forum from a chat room, and your innane and perpetual misuse of my forum tag, I wouldn't notice you at all.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
We're starting to see alot more of this.

Self interest?

We are going to applaud Apple for a dishonouring warranty based on their own personal preference and yet demand car manufacturers warrant all mater of absolute user abuse of their products? Consistancy where?

Hicks (New user):

I see PC's all the time covered in dust and dirt, people wonder why the fans stop working, I even have some photo's here in my tech bay to show people what they can get too, but I also have an Air Compressor to clean out those systems. Sadly enough though you cop a lung full of dust and dirt even when outside using a can of compressed air.

I wouldn't be happy cleaning out a unit full of gunk from a smoker or any other user who didn't look after their unit, another point is I've pulled apart a laser printer for a customer before to discover it was full of cigarette butts, and that wondered why the paper would not feed and the ink tanks were stuck...

Where I stand on this matter though isn't important, I don't smoke at all, but I know people who do, and if they want me to look at their PC they know to clear away all the ash trays and so forth. If a computer only has the smell of smoke, fix it, if it's actually been damaged due to cigarettes, then the warranty is void. As I stated though in my previous post this is something I will follow with great interest to see what others do, ie HP, ASUS, Acer, Toshiba and so on.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Hicks:
I wouldn't be happy cleaning out a unit full of gunk from a smoker or any other user who didn't look after their unit

Agreed, but like many things about a job they have to be done.



Quoting Hicks:
If a computer only has the smell of smoke, fix it, if it's actually been damaged due to cigarettes, then the warranty is void.

A common sense reply, if only this kind of attidude was more common. :)

plutonium210 (New user):

Quoting Raindog:
but like many things about a job they have to be done.

No they don't. Not by Apple, at least.
It has been deemed a health hazard and thus no staff should be exposed to it. So when your filthy pc needs repair under warranty by Apple. Don't say you haven't been told.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting plutonium210:
No they don't. Not by Apple, at least.
It has been deemed a health hazard and thus no staff should be exposed to it.

So by your logic next time are inflicted with alcohol poisoning, you should be avoided due to the substantial proven and documented risk you will likely pose to the health of emergency staff?

Don't say you haven't been told.

Tin (User):

Quoting Hicks:
If a computer only has the smell of smoke, fix it, if it's actually been damaged due to cigarettes, then the warranty is void.


The refusals listed in the more detailed articles have been about gummed up fans and vents, and other such collections of crud. So basically Apple is seemingly doing what you agree with (I also agree with it).

Raindog seems to think Apple is doing drug tests on people coming in and refusing to serve anyone with Nicotine present.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Tin:
Raindog seems to think Apple is doing drug tests on people coming in and refusing to serve anyone with Nicotine present.

Not at all. What concerns me, is the blanket statement that if you smoke you void your Apple warranty, this is neither legal (in AU), viable or ethical.

No question at all, that if your computer is damaged due to large quantities of residue or any foreign matter the warranty should be void. But that is not what the Apple statement says! As it stands its just an easy loop-hole for possible refusal of valid warranty claims.

If it cannot be shown that there are excessive deposits within a machine, enough to affect airflow or coat terminations then there is no reason to void warranty simply because the owner smokes.

The possibility of health risk to notebook technicians rates up there with meteor strike. If concerned wear a dust mask, end off. Sometimes a dirty job but very few technicians have ever been paid simply for their good looks.

TV Bis (New user):

The Tech should be using a face mask in any case due to dust and other containments. I think the whole argument went out the window the day that computers left the clean rooms. I agree that any case full of crap should not be touched but I also think that when you buy a computer you should be made aware that it needs to be cleaned out every year or so due to warranty issues. But then again I can imagine 90% of the population getting the garden hose out for that purpose so Techs of the world just use gloves and a mask - it will be much safer for you in the end!

Raindog (New user):

Quoting TV Bis:
The Tech should be using a face mask in any case due to dust and other containments.

Exactly, whenever the job requires it.


Quoting TV Bis:
I think the whole argument went out the window the day that computers left the clean rooms.

Too true. One would asume to be suitable for task the machines could operate in any reasonable environment. Smoking that does not leave excessive residue, would have to be considered a reasonable environment for the machine, even if not so for other occupants.


Quoting TV Bis:
I agree that any case full of crap should not be touched

We are talking nicotine cheese not nuclear waste, while any machine laden with such contaminent should be void from warranty, there is no reason why it cannot be cleaned and repaired. Appropriate PPE used as required.


Quoting TV Bis:
but I also think that when you buy a computer you should be made aware that it needs to be cleaned out every year or so due to warranty issues

Cleaned out by qualified persons, the thought of home notebook cleaning is a scary one.



Quoting TV Bis:
But then again I can imagine 90% of the population getting the garden hose out for that purpose

indeed


Quoting TV Bis:
so Techs of the world just use gloves and a mask - it will be much safer for you in the end!

exactly.

K (New user):

If Apple starts getting narky, then surely all you have to say is "dunno what you're talking about, I don't smoke"?

I think this is ridiculous as well. It's fair enough to void a warranty if they item has been used in an unsuitable environment or misused, but a blanket statement like this about smokers is stupid. It's like voiding keyboard warranties on all people who eat food, any time and any location, because you can get crumbs in the keyboard.

Hicks (New user):

Sadly enough people don't know they can clean out a PC, from reading the replies most of the users here know how dirty the inside of a PC can get or how dirty a fan on a notebook can get, it's a simple matter to clean them out, but you need to take the correct measures, dust mask, well ventilated area's and so forth. We can't use the term "common sense" though because what might be obvious for myself as a health issue others might think, "I don't have to worry about that" so it's not common for another user.

Once people come in and see me, I'll open the tower up or have a look at the fan on the unit, if it's dirty I will explain to the customer they should clean it out, if it's in Warranty though I ask them to bring it in and I will do it, thus not voiding it on them. Once the 12 months is up though, clean the suckers out.

With what Apple are doing it seems to be a loop hole where they can not fix units due to reasons that seem flimsy, then again I've been contacted by repair centers about liquid spill in note books, trying to explain to customers though that spilling your Coke, Milk, Coffee on your notebook is not a good thing and voids the Warranty can be met by various reactions. Some will scream at you, threaten to take you to the ACCC, some will say "oh well, kids don't have a PC now" and others will either get it fixed or get a new one. The first one I have had a couple of times now, but I get copies of the Tech reports, pass them on to the customer and they can take it from there, it's normally extended Warranty issues though, I can understand not wanting to pay for repairs or purchasing a new unit, but spilling something on the unit isn't covered.

Now we've all seen what smoking can do to your lungs by all the ads out there now, but what I would like to see is what Nicotine does to a PC, give us Techs some more information, can nicotine on a unit actually cause a health risk to a tech who is looking at the unit and performing repairs, if there is a risk, show us some evidence. It will probably start another panic for employers though if staff can be affected, then again, wouldn't it be like getting a computer to fix that was owned by someone with H1N1 (Hamthrax) or anything, how many times do we as Tech's cut ourselves on sharp cases?

Then again, I just get in and do the job, if it can't be fixed I will tell them, if it's going to cost too much, I will inform them.

PeopleString (New user):

We should revere the smokers because it is their committment to their habit that cares for our nation's children's health care! (SCHIP) Apple should do more to take our poor children's health into considration here.

Mrpanicy (New user):

Quit smoking. Done.

I don't want to have to be around smokers. I have kept my body clean of all substances that could be hazardous to my health yet I am still enveloped in the stench and acrid clouds that smokers give off from their severely bad habit if I want to go outside. Anyone who inhales smoke ON PURPOSE is a moron IMHO.

Really wish governments had the balls to ban smoking around the world.

Tin (User):

Quoting Mrpanicy:
Anyone who inhales smoke ON PURPOSE is a moron IMHO.


And those who show total disreagard for people around them by lighting up in public are incredibly selfish on top of it.


Quoting Mrpanicy:
Really wish governments had the balls to ban smoking around the world.

I don't travel much, so I only wish the NSW government had the balls to crank up the taxes - the non-smokers are still subsidising their medical treatments, business losses due to their health, etc. Why should I be paying for someone's medical bills when they brought it on themself?

The Big Baboo (New user):

Are we still flogging this dead horse? I thought we decided that Apples can be hazardous to your health years ago.And I'd really like to know where Mrpanicy hangs out that he's surrounded by clouds of cigarette smoke everywhere.Does he perchance work in a tobacco factory as a tester?