Netbooks hurting Apple sales

Halcon (Advanced member):

It was time to know that, Apple has the most expensive computers in the world, and this does not mean that will be good, once again it has been demonstrated the utter arrogance of this company.
This only summarise to one thing: greed.
Apple is losing its grip in the market because is monopolist company, with such mentality it will disappear from the face of earth for good!

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

but for individuals who are seeking a device out of need, and want it to be affordable, the sale of low cost netbooks will continue

What need exactly is the netbook filling? Yes, I am well aware of a few niche applications that netbooks suit, but they don't actually suit the needs of most computer uses.

How many of the current Netbooks are being sold as a users sole computer or their everyday workhorse? Not that many I'd expect. I'd guess current Netbook sales are more to do with them being the latest must have fad gadget than any practical application.

For Apple to participate in such a market could well remove a lot of their established brand image.

Your Average Joe (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
the needs of most computer uses.

Speaking for the masses again !

Quoting Raindog:
Not that many I'd expect.

And you know this how ? Posting some survey data would help here.

Quoting Raindog:
For Apple to participate in such a market could well remove a lot of their established brand image.

Absolute garbage ! Unless you have inside info from Apple, you are just guessing (one of the things you despise, right ?).

Apple would be crazy not to follow soon with a Mac Netbook.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
Speaking for the masses again !

No just simple common sense! (you should try it some time)
You have stated on many occasions that Netbooks do not suit your sector of interest, with much more highly specified solar flare gamesmasters being the order of the day.
Netbook keyboards do not lend themselves to writers.
Cad and design on such a machine would never even be considered.
I could go on, but clearly most users needs will not be met by a netbook.


Quoting Your Average Joe:
And you know this how ?

It's that common sense thing again YAJ, why not give it a go?



Quoting Your Average Joe:
Absolute garbage !

Why? How do the compromises seen in every netbook thus far fall in line with the Apple product philosophy?


Quoting Your Average Joe:
Unless you have inside info from Apple, you are just guessing

I do not guess. I've made clear statements, the evidence is all about you. Your wish to personally attack my post does nothing to diminish clearly demonstrated policies and product images.


Quoting Your Average Joe:
Apple would be crazy not to follow soon with a Mac Netbook.

Crazy? There is plenty of evidence to show why Apple would be crazy to delve into an already oversubscribed market and a market that is likely to reduce in proportion over time. If apple were to present a mobile device it would make more sense offer a product like an upgraded iPod touch incorporating some netbook like features.

Agree or disagree, the choice is yours but please refrain from your bitter and disaffected personal attacks.

cp21yos (New user):

OMG these comments are funny. Halcon's appears to be jealous that he can't afford better than average gear and therefore like any fanatic has to take the extreme point of view. Really "it will disappear from the face of earth for good!" You probably want Ferrari to go the same way.

Raindog - you dog - you're just waiting for Apple's interpretation of the space, maybe a "Front Row to Go" type of device (google it).

Your Average Joe - Apple have already said in their quarterly financial calls that they are 1. not going to produce a product at the Netbook price point that would be rubbish in terms of quality and 2. that they have ideas for this space and are keeping a close eye on it.

More interestingly though don't you think APC's bait and switch article titles that seem to always have a negative Apple vibe are interesting for a member of the MSN stable? Note the title of this article "Netbooks hurting Apple sales" this appears to be a positive statement of fact but then you have the actual URL of the article "http://apcmag.com/are-netbooks-hurting-apple.htm" which poses a question.

Turning to the "article" the question posed is supposedly answered by this statement "Regardless of the drop percentage, for Apple to come off their price something is having an impact, and I am going to wager a guess that it is the netbook."
I would have the thought consecutive quarters of increasing laptop unit sales would have meant better buying power meaning Apple could negotiate better prices from suppliers... you know standard economics. Of course, standard economics should mean in a tighter fiscal economy Apple would be prudent in reducing it's margin to help maintain it's unit numbers, both more likely reasons for reducing your margins.

Full disclosure: I enjoy the occasional dips of Apple's stock price as opportunities to pick up a bargain.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting cp21yos:
Raindog - you dog -

Personal attacks will not help your argument.


Quoting cp21yos:
you're just waiting for Apple's interpretation of the space, maybe a "Front Row to Go" type of device

Sorry to blow your thunder but I'm waiting for nothing from Apple on nothing in the way of a Netbook. But don't let that stop you second guessing, no matter how far of the beam you are.


Quoting cp21yos:
(google it

You google it.. I'm not interested.

Halcon (Advanced member):

Quoting cp21yos:
Halcon's appears to be jealous that he can't afford better than average gear and therefore like any fanatic has to take the extreme point of view

Apple has never got anything usable, always locked in anachronic monopoly.
You can't compare Ferrari with any kind of computer.

agami (User):

Quoting Halcon:
You can't compare Ferrari with any kind of computer.


What about Kit from Night Rider?

:)

Halcon (Advanced member):

I WISH I could have a Knight Rider clone fitted with the latest Intel Core i7 Processor, but alas, I can't have one :-(

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Halcon:
I WISH I could have a Knight Rider clone fitted with the

Er, you may want to google Kit from Knight Rider, it's not a brand of PC parts. The only people who actually want Knight Rider clones are those who wear their trousers around their armpits.

The Penguin (Advanced member):

Quoting agami:
What about Kit from Night Rider?:)



KITT isn't a Ferrari.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting The Penguin:
KITT isn't a Ferrari.

It could be, but only during live performances from the Top Gear team.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting cp21yos:
More interestingly though don't you think APC's bait and switch article titles that seem to always have a negative Apple vibe are interesting for a member of the MSN stable?

How do you explain these APC article titles? And how do they support your suggestion of an always negative Apple Vibe from APC?

"OS X 10.5.6: what's inside this whopping update"
"Is BlackBerry crumbling against the iPhone?"
"MacBook Air: top 10 things to love about it"
"Show me the money! Apple posts record fourth quarter, ships over 2 million Macs"
"Mac sales outpacing industry 3:1"
"The era of the PC is over: why Apple is beating Microsoft"
"Resale value makes Macs better investments "
"Why most people should buy a Mac"

Tin (Regular user):

Quoting cp21yos:
You probably want Ferrari to go the same way.


I sure wouldn't... But since when have Apple's products been built well and go faster than other brands?
Comparing Apple to Ferrari is just plain wrong... Lexus maybe, since they're really tarted up Toyotas, if you see where I'm going.

agami (User):

Whoopty-fricken-do.
It certainly isn't the first time nor will it be the last that a company's sales figures are affected by a new trend or entrant.

If, and I do say if, Apple do produce a netbook it will either be a stylish comparatively expensive unibody netbook or to keep the cost down it will be a 10-inch non-optical-drive version of the on-its-way-out white polycarb Macbook which will look like many other white 10-inch netbooks except it will run OS X and will have a glowing Apple logo on the back.

Do I have insider info? No. Am I stating facts? Certainly not.
Last time I checked this is the comments section, I'm just commenting.

kearnsy (User):

Grab a Dell Mini 9 from officeworks for $548 and a copy of OSX Leopard for $158 from Apple Store and you have a OSX netbook for around $700

gankul (Cornerstone member):

considering its illegal to put osx on the dell in the first place, im suprised you bothered buying osx.

Tin (Regular user):

But the logo wouldn't glow to advertise to all your friends just how silly cool you are....

MK500 (New user):

Or pick up a 2.1Ghz MacBook for $849 from the Apple Store and enjoy a 13" screen, keyboard you can type on, DVD burner, and FAR faster processor.

kearnsy (User):

Quoting MK500:
Or pick up a 2.1Ghz MacBook for $849 from the Apple Store and enjoy a 13" screen, keyboard you can type on, DVD burner, and FAR faster processor.

Maybe on the US Apple site you can get that $849 pricing for a "refurb unit". The pricing on that same refurb unit on the Australian site costs $1400!

Ash (User):

Apple cannot create a netbook. Netbooks are cheap and relatively disposable compared to standard laptops. What Apple would create as an entrance into the netbook market would be an ultraportable ($2500?), re-emphisising that they are completely out of touch with the mature consumer.

gtoews (New user):

I thoroughly enjoy using the well made computers made by the utter arrogant computer company. Turns out, they care about quality.

gtoews (New user):

I loving using the equipment made by those arrogant people at Apple. They have a reputation to uphold. They care about quality.

znosko (New user):

Will Apple disappear unless it meets demand for a netbook? No. It has a broad product base. Don't dismiss either the iPhone or the deferred compensation accounting that prevents reporting of profits from Apple's cut from subscriptions. Money streams in from a variety of sources, not just Macs.

Plus, Apple will release a netbook. It will be more expensive than most, but because people want Apple quality, they will pay more for this value entry, the same way many paid for, and are paying for, the Mini (the recent update of which some analysts are calling a sleeper hit). The kids will love it and make it successful, just like they did and do for the iPod and iPhone.

Why do we know that Apple will release a netbook? Because Apple is market-sensitive. It has released products that it previously denied developing - the iPhone, video iPod, and Mini (the "headless" Mac) come to mind as immediate examples. Thus, any statement by Apple that it is ignoring a growing market segment should be taken with a grain of salt.

Even if Apple never releases a netbook, its computer sales will recover. One of the primary forces driving the netbook (and Windows) market is, indeed, cost. It's the economy, stupid. Economies recover, and when they do, Apple will be ready with a diverse product portfolio of interesting, innovative products that people will have money to buy again. Don't dismiss the future attractions of OS X.6, dual-GPU notebooks, extended-charge batteries in full-service computers, iPhone OS v. 3, the iPod touch, the App store, the increasing viability of iWork, etc., etc., etc. Apple may have to tolerate some slow quarters to get to the good times again, but it's got mountains of cash and a steady stream of deferred profits to carry it through. Netbooks are compromise purchases - they offer little over full-size notebooks other than long battery life and extreme portability. When people have money to spend again, they won't compromise performance and high-quality builds for battery life and portability when Apple has alternatives for them that give them all of these things.

The computer industry at large recognizes this. Otherwise, why would Dell make the Adamo? Why would the major computer companies keep all-in-one iMac copies in their product list?

So what's the problem?

Fried Turkey (New user):

NPD, just like Gartner, never actually portrays true sales of Apple's products. Their "imaginings" are always well under Apple's sales numbers. So, why any responsible journalist would use their "pretendings" as Gospel is sad as these two companies try to portray fiction as fact.
Besides, trying to say that Apple's laptop sales have dropped due to these netbook toys-which describes these under-powered items properly- doesn't mean that Apple's income from laptops is less than it has been.

veggiedude (New user):

Poor journalism. The report comes at the time Apple just refreshed its entire line up. Whenever this happens, there is always poor sales leading up to the event, because wise consumers want to wait on purchasing to buy the latest and greatest. My guess is that the sales will pick up again for this next quarter, if they don't, then you can write another article, this time with some proper facts to back you up.

MK500 (New user):

I think netbooks are very cool; primarily because they are dirt cheap web browsing devices often running linux (which is reliable and easy to maintain vs. Windows). However, it's pretty hard to argue that netbooks are a highly profitable business. What is average margin on these? The margins are just horrible, and you have to pump out a lot of them to make any money. Generally they are cheap, disposable computers. This is so far off from Apple's business (reliable high-margin computers) that it would make no sense for them to dilute their brand by making one. For now, if you want an inexpensive Apple browsing device, you buy a Touch. My guess would be Apple may someday build a larger Touch that would be similar in price to a Netbook, but do away with a lot of the "PC Compatible" parts to make it higher margin (keyboard, ports for video, USB, etc). Apple is pretty savvy about this stuff, and I trust they are spending appropriate effort finding the most innovative approach. In the mean time, they have sold over 13 million Touch devices at a far higher profit margin than netbooks.

Waterloo (New user):

The economy is sinking sales. And the OS sells the Macs.

In my experience with Macs and PCs, Macs may cost a bit more to purchase, but in the long run are much cheaper to own than a PC. Been there done that, my old Macs still work, my old PCs are door stops. And I have all sorts of free time, as I am not wasting hours upon hours every week keeping the PCs up and running. Macs just work, and work, and work...

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Waterloo:
Macs just work, and work, and work...

Same with kitchen hands, although they do stop for cigarettes. What has your preaching got to do with possible MAC netbooks?

MK500 (New user):

I think netbooks are very cool; primarily because they are dirt cheap web browsing devices often running linux (which is reliable and easy to manage vs. Windows virus related overhead). However, it's pretty hard to argue that netbooks are a highly profitable business. What is average margin on these? The margins are just horrible, and you have to pump out a lot of them to make any money. Generally they are cheap, disposable computers. This is so far off from Apple's business (reliable high-margin computers) that it would make no sense for them to dilute their brand by making one. For now, if you want an inexpensive Apple browsing device, you buy a Touch. My guess would be Apple may someday build a larger Touch that would be similar in price to a Netbook, but do away with a lot of the "PC Compatible" parts to make it higher margin (keyboard, ports for video, USB, etc). Apple is pretty savvy about this stuff, and I trust they are spending appropriate effort finding the most innovative approach. In the mean time, they have sold over 13 million Touch devices at a far higher profit margin than netbooks.

Hemma (User):

Quoting MK500:
For now, if you want an inexpensive Apple browsing device, you buy a Touch. My guess would be Apple may someday build a larger Touch that would be similar in price to a Netbook, but do away with a lot of the "PC Compatible" parts to make it higher margin (keyboard, ports for video, USB, etc).

Heh yeah. $549 for a 3.5 inch touchscreen device that does not support flash. Yeah I'll go get five right now.

Just run OSX on the MSI Wind if you feel you NEED to use OSX (cost you $50 bucks more, so don't tell me you people with deep pockets can't stretch the budget that much more). How hard is it to learn to use windows or linux? If you have a single digit I.Q., then I'll let it slide.

Neroon (New user):

Number one, no one is making much money on netbooks -- Apple is not into losing money.
Number two, they will release an iPad later this year that will have a 10in screen, run a real OS, and have full usability along with a touch screen, not a nearly useless linux piece of crap.
Number three, Apple is doing just fine and will post another healthy profit this quarter. They are far better positioned then any other company in the computer busienss to come out of this econmy and thrive.
Number four, I tire of morons who make post like Halcon who are know-nothing trolls.

Keep dreaming about your cheap Mac -- it's called used and will still run fine in a few years, unlike your netbook.

Hemma (User):

Where did you come from? the Mac forums jus to defend the Apple? I've had 2 macs, and u don't see me running around talking schitt. Get back behind the velvet rope, we'll call you when we need you.

Tom_NYC (New user):

Real Men don't Netbook.
Real men don't diet soda, lite beer, decaf, or type on itsy bitsy keyboards and tinsy winsy computer screens.
Where the Hell am I going to put my Adobe Creative Suite?
Netbooks will go the way of WebTV, 8-Track Stereo and Walkmans.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Real Man's Netbook Prototype