BigPond blocking VoIP on new modem

Jarrod Spiga:

How can you pay for a service Bigpond don't provide? Who says that anyone would pay for it even if they did provide it.

Does anyone else think that is actually bordering on being anti-competitive? I think that the REAL reason why VOIP is disabled on the modem is to force Bigpond subscribers to rely on using PSTN for their calls - which in turn provides more moolah for the big T.

Surely such actions is bordering on anti-competitive behaviour? Who is it for Telstra to decide that their customers should not be using alternate telephony services?

anti-competitive:

anti-competitive?

how so?

just like iinet modems support mutiable PVC's dosnt mean iinet have let there DSLAM's do mutiable connections.

its a feature that has to be released into bigpond product offering, and will be released in the future.

FutureFox:

"anti-competitive, how so?"

other VoIP providers can use the hardware to provide VoIP to the consumer, with telstra disabling VoIP on the hardware, they are in-effect cutting out all VoIP providers. The consumer purchased the hardware, so Telstra should have no right to disable a function on the device to prevent other people from providing cheaper phone calls, which will force the telstra consumer to continue to use telstra's more expensive pstn phone lines.

Troz

Jarrod Spiga:

Dear anonymous Telstra minion.

If you can't think about the issue for a second, at least have the guts to put your name on yoru post.

After you've considered that, chew on this - iiNet don't have to allow "mutiable PVC's" on their DSLAMs. If they don't want to offer the service, they don't have to.

But it's one thing to not offer a service. Its a COMPLETELY different thing to prevent users from accessing services offered by otehr providers. Said practice is anti-competitive.

To use your example, any iiNet customer could take their ADSL modem and subscribe to another provider who does offer mutible PVCs and it would work perfectly.

What happens if I take my Telstra ADSL modem and try and use it with a VOIP service? You get bupkiss.

So until you can a) come up with a decent argument; and b) have the guts to reveal who you are, you're argument is irrelevant.

Richard:

All they disabled is the ability of the 2Wire modem to act as a VoIP gateway, you can still use other devices to provide this functionality such as the Engin Voicebox etc

Jarrod Spiga:

That's not the point. The point is, why should you have to buy ANOTHER device to use VOIP when you already have a device that's capable of doing so until Telstra decides that you don't need that functionality.

It's an issue of choice - a choice that Telstra is taking away from you.

sojaded:

The sad thing is there appears to be no shortage of customers willing to sign up to Telstra, even though they clearly offer the worst value for money, the worst customer service and the least innovative and feature rich products. As long there are hundreds of thosands of people in Australia who enjoy paying to be restricted and over charged Telstra will never change.

Anonymous.:

Just like Microsoft :(

Andy:

What would you choose?
1. No broadband and being stuck on dial up; or
2. Broadband via Big Pond?

Not everyone gets a choice of service providers, so please be mindful before slamming users who are forced to choose Telstra when there is no other option.

PC:

Anyone who buys this modem is on ADSL and therefore has several hundred possible providers. This isn't about cable where there is little/no choice. As such, your comments are irrelevant.

Chill:

No, that is not right. I am in FNQ and the only ADSL supplier to my house is telstra. They definitely have the best coverage but I do resent changing over to them as I know there are better deals out there - I think from everyone. I am paying more and receiving less for this compared to what I was on on the Gold Coast.

werger:

amen to this..... bastardos

Jamie @ Darra:

Telstra knocked me back for an ADSL connection and an Optus DSL reseller said they could hook me up.

I smell the excrement of politics on Telstra's side trying to show how many people they've knocked back for ADSL because the Government hasn't rolled over for their FTTN plans.

Viva la Telekom!.... or whomever gets the FTTN contract. Pull the network from under Telstra please!!!

rocketscientist:

suprise suprise. Telstra should only be used by Masochists..... hurts sooooo good!

Daniel Sullivan:

The thing that dosn't appear to be mentioned here is that Bigpond provide this modem FREE OF CHARGE as part of their service. They aren't providing it in order for you to use with other ISPs. If you want a modem which is able to support other VOIP services, they allow you to supply your own. The fact that everyone is getting off over a modem which they recieved free for a particular purpose (In this case accessing Bigpond ADSL), is completely rediculous and petty.

Don't get me wrong here, I dislike Telstra and Bigpond as the next consumer. I find them overpriced and providing a comparatively low level of service, but in this case it's a lot of fuss about nothing

Dan Warne:

It ain't free, mate! Try walking into a Telstra shop and asking for one of those modems with no strings attached. They'll laugh you out of the place. 

Or, for a more realistic example, try calling Telstra as an off-contract BigPond customer asking asking for one of these "free" modems. You'll also be laughed off the phone.  

The cost of the modem is factored into the overall monthly fee and [x] month contract you sign. And as such, you should expect to have the functionality of the device available to you. 

The same thinking would apply to mobile phones with reduced functionality, except that it is now such a commonplace problem that you'd be clogging up your newsfeed by reporting on every instance. On the other hand, broadband providers removing functionality from modems for purely commercial reasons is really uncommon in the broadband scene -- in Australia at least.

No doubt the US telcos have pioneered this foul practice and Telstra's imported management team is simply importing the same tactics to Australia.

meh:

the cost of the plans are the same whether you use the old siemens/Thompson/alcatel modem, the new 2Wire modem, or if you bring your own modem to the Bigpond service.

it's still 29.95 a month for 200mb if you bring a Dlink DSL-504T or any other non alcatel/siemens/thompson/2wire modem. Still a rip off, but you're not paying for the modem on your contract. the only difference is the installation cost (which is the modem). and that's a 1 off fee. Or free for the single port modem with home phone

sure, it's not "free with no strings attached" but you walk into a non-telstra shop and ask for something free with no strings attached. Optus isn't giving me a modem free with no strings attached either, don't see you complain about them

Secondly, you're all a bunch of geeks complaining to a geek website. you know about the existance of the ATA in the modems. do you seriously think the old granny who doesn't even have dialup cares about this? Geeks don't rule the world, nor are we the majoriy. We could have ATA modems up the wazoo, enabled or not. How many of us are going to use it? how many Australians who have broadband are going to use it? BL clearly don't cater fo us geeks. but most ISPs don't cater for the mums and dads that would rather read new idea over APC.

I reckon, if we took out the BP equation and used any other ISP, but posted this news in a major national paper, people aren't going to care The only reason this is incensing people isn't because BP removed ATA functionality, but because this is another anti-BP article. And Telstra bashing is an aussie sport.

finally, it doesn't stop you from ataching an ethernet ATA adapter. Even if BP were to enable ATA support, you seriously think they're gonna open it up to Firefiy or Engin? Do Engin's ATA boxes allow you to use firefly? IInet's ATA modem routers with Engin? not gonna happen.

Seriously dan, get into the real world. this wouldn't make 1 iota of a difference even if they had enabled the ATA. BP ain't the best ISP out there, but i've had my fair share of the worst out there. And for the majority of mums and dads out there, it makes no difference to them as long as they have their internet. Wouldn't make a difference to me either, since i doubt BP would open the ATA up to Engin....

Falstar:

As Dan said, it ain't free. They say that it is free, but as with "interest-free" terms (to use an example), an amount is still shown as income in the accounts of the business from a reporting and tax perspective (in this case, for the modem provided).

Nothing is free in this world. It is simply packaged into the 24 month contract that you sign up when joining Bigpond.

tin:

Telstra's really struggling when they compare this to TV channels. The TV still has that feature enabled for starters.

And future proofing from Telstra is a load of bovine excrement too... The feature in question is a now thing, not a future thing.

billb:

& people find telstra doing this a surprise why?

Bending over for Bigpond:

While I don't agree with what Bigpond are doing, it's similar to a carrier locked mobile.

And with that in mind, if you complete your Bigpond contract or cancel (and pay your contract out) then you would "own" the device, and Bigpond no long have any rights to the device and should be forced to unlock all features on it. But I bet they don't.

So this would mean you are effectively renting a device to connect to their network. So long as you are paying for the service, they should be forced to maintain the device, even if your contract has since run out, given they want to manage it and retain complete control over it. But again, I bet they don't.

So the end result is, you're going to get shafted at some point.

Jez:

"it's called 'future proofing' a product ..."

More like future proofing a market for Tel$ra. Next Tel$ra will be marketting their ADSL so that it can be upgraded to come with the option of web-browsing - of course at a cost well above competitors.

Does anyone know if this modem blocks VOIP services like Skype?

Anonymous1975:

Funny, just to the right of this article is the headline Pirates crack Vista Activation Server. I wonder how long it will be before someone in the telecoms industry that has access to 2wire firmware puts it up on the web, or on a P2P client or some other means that allows others to get it. Free upgrade insted of paying whatever Telstra might charge. Not that I condone this sort of activity but I'm afraid Telstra's attitude of sticking their head in the sand won't exactly encourage people not to do this. So Telstra looses again, as per usual.

Bob Fribber:

Goes to show what Sol could do if he was unleashed in his FTTN campaign. Limiting everything that a customer should be able to do freely. I wonder if Sol and Bill Gates are best of mates?

However mums and dads of this world who know no better will still sign up to BigPuddle.....

NG:

This rogue telco really needs to be pulled in and slammed for being so dishonest in their business practices!

Gladly, I do not have ANY Telstra services, and never will until they start playing the game fairly. I discourage any of my friends and family from connecting to Telstra, and it becoming easier and easier to convince them why.

Jonathan:

This modem isn't even marketed by BigPond as having VoIP capability, so I really can't see what the fuss is all about.

Furthermore, the modem itself doesn't "Block VOIP" as the article incorrectly states. There's nothing preventing people from using an ATA or SIP phone on their ADSL connection, so really, people are buying an ADSL modem which could potentially offer VoIP in the future.

Dan - you're surprised BigPond has not responded to your third attempt at this?

Dan Warne:

You can play semantics if you like (yes, it can be argued that the modem doesn't block a user from attaching a SIP device) but why the hell should a user have to buy a SIP ATA and attach it to their modem that already has a SIP ATA built in -- and blocked? 

And no, I'm not surprised that BigPond did not respond to my third attempt at this, because there is no good answer to explain why they're stopping users from using the ATA functionality of the modem except for pure commercial greed ("if we can't sell you the service to go with your hardware, then we'll make damn sure nobody else can!")

Jonathan:

Dan, I'd expect more commonsense from an article from a respected magazine.

There's nothing semantical about this. People are not buying the modem on the premise that it has a built in ATA - Telstra just so happen to be selling an ADSL modem which could in the future have ATA functionality.

Realistically, would you expect any Telco whose profits largely come from telephony to start selling ADSL modems which allow VoIP services from a competitor? There's nothing about greed here - people aren't paying a premium for this particular modem because it has an in-built, but disabled ATA.

You are correct - there is no good answer to your third statement to BigPond. Why would a professional organisation want to get involved with such a nonsensical argument?

Realistically, there's probably little to stop people from getting this modem very cheaply and then reflashing the firmware to the stock firmware to enable the ATA. Those who have done their research into modems and have bought this modem on the premise it has an ATA could probably reflash the device anyway.

Falstar:

If I buy (yes, if you enter into a contract with a "free" piece of equipment provided, you are still buying that device) a product, I do not expect to have it crippled by the provider. The product they are selling already has ATA functionality. They are deliberately disabling it (for a price, I am sure) to protect their profits. Defend it however you like, it is a dirty tactic, but certainly not surprising, coming from Telstra.

Unifex:

I LOL'd when i saw the link to this article from a link in Whirlpool, talk about a beatup over nothing! Sure, Tel$tra have disabled the VoIP for the modem in firmware for the moment - but they *don't* market the device as VoIP capable. It may be marketed later as a feature, but they make no claims about it at the moment and it does not "block" VoIP from a separate sip device...
I have a Billion 6404VP router/ata hanging off my Bigpond cable modem at home and no longer pay Tel$tra for a landline because VoIP has more features for far less cost. Took all of 3 months to recoup the costs of the router/ata vs paying Tel$tra for the exorbitant line rental costs ($29.95 per month) for a basic service + PSTN call costs. I just pity the poor average "mum & dad" users that don't know about this and still put up with paying to line Tel$tra's coffers when there is an acceptable alternative.

Meh:

I don't see a problem, so long as they
A) Don't market the modem as having VOIP capabilities
and
B) If they state the model of the modem in their sales pitch, they mention that the modem has its VOIP capabilities disabled.

This way nobody expects to receive a VOIP modem, and people who do their research into the modem and see it has VOIP capabilities realise that VOIP is disabled on Telstra supplied models.

Charles:

"My TV has capacity for 100 Free to air channels, but I only get five. Can Sony send me a 95% refund?" What was Middleton thinking when he said that? Did he even understand the question?

A comparable analogy would be if the Seven Network sold televisions and they had them modified so that you couldn't display Foxtel, or if Ford own petrol stations and modified their cars so that use could only use fuel from their stations.

Be honest Craig, the reason it is blocked is because Telstra are too scared that forward thinking companies (VoIP providers) are going to steal customers away from Telstra's old fashioned business practices (PSTN dialling).

Rather than innovate or compete on price or performance, they hold back progress for the sake of filling their own back pockets.

Dan:

Dan,
I think you are on the black list now with Telstra. There is no way in hell they would ever actually respond to a media outlet with the sort of smart aleck responses. It just shows their contempt for their customers and those trying to help them/protect them.

Juffy:

A great retort would be "My ADSL modem is capable of 8mbps, but for 8 years Telstra artificially restricted me to 1.5mbps. Can I have an 81% refund for all my access charges for that period, preferrably with interest?"

What's that? More deafening silence?

Martin:

Sony does free-to-air broadcasting in Australia ? Craig...

Folks ... if this modem doesn't do it for you, exercise your democratic right and buy something else. "Caveat Emptor" and (like any well-informed consumer) don't forget to do your homework (which is why these articles exist, yes ?) Bless you Dan, for keeping the average consumer informed.

Aliensf:

Oh it is good to see telstra struggling. They're slowling losing the war.

telstra sucks:

telstra have always played dirty, i remember when optus first came on the scene telstra started a scare campaign "take our jobs...blah blah blah" looking back i think to my self thank god optus and the likes are still around offering a lot more reasonable prices and business practices, i guess thats what makes them so successful.

cal:

I expect to try to reason with people that, because of their own selfish business interests, go to diabolical lengths (lies,distortion of the facts,comments that hold no logic, indeed anything to damage Telstra and possibly keep the Government handouts coming. Cannot the Telstra haters understand that Telstra is a privately owned company whose management are duty bound to run the company in the most efficient manner while providing a service to consumers that is attractive to the customer. Let us hope that the fact that Telstra is no longer a monopoly is realized by the Howard Government and all subsidies of taxpayer money ceases to all, and market forces decide the outcome as one would expect in our Australian free market, competitive system.

wired076:

I am not shocked that as my parents are Telstra customers for over 10 years that they would do things like this. I had a similar experience when my modem Bigpond provided us with started acting as a hub and my router wouldn't work that I got put lower down on the pecking order and my technical support and customer service that we received was just ridiculous. I believe that Telstra should have sent out a technical support person to look at the issue and replace our modem that they provided at Telstra's expense not us having to pay an IT person to come out and have a look at it and then buy a new modem and router and asked for some money back from Telstra only for the modem's expenses they declined even that. Which would have only been in the interest of keeping long time customers happy instead they are only interested in signing up as many people as they can. Hopefully through gentle persuasion we will change Telco's. Only this month our speed was shaped to dial up speed at only 8 and a half gigs download when we have a 12 GB download limit. Personally I would like to see better customer service, cheaper prices and a better overall service provided by Australia's biggest Telco.

Simon Smith:

good to see that Telstra/Bigpond still lives up to it's minimal "Service Charter"
A bit like McDonald's; you know exactly what you are going to get no matter where you are!

jc.d:

The modem is not advertised as having VOIP functions, nor does bigpond make any claims that it can.

So why get into a teary of a feature that was never advertised in the product that was being sold.

U pay the same ammount for this modem as you did for the old Speedstream ones and that had no VOIP capability.

The product provides as much functionality as the old one ,and allows for some realy handy methods for activation and customer management.

When bigpond are ready they will release VOIP as an option.

Dan Warne:

I'm not suggesting in the story that it's a trade practices (false advertising) issue -- I'm simply pointing out that BigPond is shipping modems with a useful feature which has been intentionally disabled by BigPond.

This could obviously be annoying to users who receive this modem -- as evidenced by the large number of responses to this article!

Meh:

Like I said earlier, if Telstra specify the make and model of the modem, and the manufacturer of that modem states that it is VOIP enabled, then Telstra should have to specifically state that the VOIP functionality is disabled. Otherwise, they aren't supplying what has been promised.

gtkp:

Because their prices are so high they have not worked out a way to competitvely offer Voip. It needs to be offered such that it does not cut into their current income and does not anger the ACCC.

Basically they cannot offer it such that they are not undercutting themselves so I would expect it will be about another 8 years before they can offer Voip. Much like how they had to be dragged ball and chain before they offered greater than 1.5 on ADSL lines.

DJShotty:

Yes we've got no idea when Telstra are gonna wake up to themselves. But why don't we all as a group wake up to OURselves and kick this company in the ass damn hard for it's total incredulity?
Remember, they wasted TWO YEARS and over a billion dollars on a network that anyone will tell you is overpriced CRAP, so they've gotta get that investment back somehow. And what better way than to rip us off with their sky high pricing structure? I mean, come on. $59.95 a month for 512Kbps on their FTTN net?
If you choose Telstra for anything, you deserve to be treated like shit (with apologies to those who don't have a choice)

Sydney Lawrence:

Heavens DJShotty you make it a bit obvious that you have some financial interest in badmouthing Telstra. As a customer of Telstra of many years, and having tried the Telstra opponents, I can assure you that I am happy with Telstra service and equipment. If it is a fact that Telstra are so horrible how come customers are flocking to them in droves.

Sickofthespin:

Would Mr Lawrence care to state which providers he has tried previously? Was this after or before you bought Telstra shares and became a Telstra Active Supporter?

If you're going to accuse someone of having a financial interest in a company, at least have the guts to state your own position.

DJShotty:

I have no financial interest whatsoever in bagging Telstra. I do so because of my inability to tolerate stupidity of any kind, and the fact that they are totally ignorant to the ADSL demand that's being shoved right under their noses. Wake up to yourself, Mr. Lawrence, and see what a bunch of self-serving gooses these Telstra exec's really are.

The reason why many flock to Telstra is because they either, (a) have no alternative or, (b) have no brains. I mean, paying an absolute fortune for miniscule data limits whilst competitors do it cheaper with more data? That's no brains for you.

The people of the outback who are the ones you seem to be referring to as 'flocking' to Telstra via the Next-G network? Well, there's the No Choice part.

Michael Casha:

aka they'll bring out vOIP which'll include "free firmware upgrade" - without this you can't go to another provider unless you purchase a new modem.

Robert:

My broadband service has capacity for up to 8 megabits but i only get 1.5

Just tell the truth Middleton, its not rocket science that Telstra are trying to protect their income.

Who do you think your fooling?