Microsoft still struggling to kill off Win XP, IE6 and Office 2003

Peter Dockrill
01 September 2011, 6:00 AM


Its older products are so hard to get rid of that Microsoft has assigned a senior executive to hasten their demise. APC spoke to him at Tech.Ed Australia.


As the worldwide head of Microsoft's application compatibility program, it's Chris Jackson's job to help migrate enterprise customers to the latest MS platforms while officially “retiring” outdated software. This includes old favourites (and legacy enterprise touchstones) such as Windows XP, Internet Explorer 6 and Office 2003. So if it's his job to kill off support, could he rightly be considered the hitman for pre-loved Microsoft products?

“It's funny," Chris says, "because the word 'retire' was recently put in there [in Chris's bio] because it used to be 'kill', and then there was this notion that 'That's not politically correct... we might want to think of a different term'. So we actually have an initiative right now... It's not just saying the new product is so awesome but the old product is something that no longer is meeting the awesomeness requirements that you [as a customer] have.”


Microsoft's Chris Jackson.

Chris, known within Microsoft as the “App Compat Guy”, keeps a “support countdown gadget” on his desktop, which tells him exactly how much longer legacy systems will be maintained. He didn't have it on him when we met at this year's Tech.Ed, but off the top of his head... where does XP stand now? “900 and some odd days... [support will end] somewhere in mid 2014.”

For the kinds of large-scale enterprises that Chris helps with their migrations (pretty much the biggest entities you can imagine, like the approx. 500,000-seat strong US Air Force), it can be a pretty major task. So one thing organisations should strive for is not just being up to date but to consciously manage as much as possible their “technology agility”.   

“The reason why enterprises standardise is not because they are control freaks. [These days] everyone is so busy they're just like: 'Whatever I can do to make it possible to do my job and keep costs down, I'll do it'. It's all about managing the risk. I don't want to have to be constantly testing and doing what I call running in place.”

“At the same time one of [Microsoft's] goals is to help customers become more agile so that we don't have as many really deeply baked independencies that make it so that every transition is a large project. So [the question is] can you make yourself better able to make the next transition less expensive and less time-consuming by taking some pro-active actions now?”

The particular benefits of upgrading vary depending on the platforms organisations utilise and what they want to achieve, but in terms of Microsoft's offerings -- with its current promotion of Windows 7, IE 9 and Office 2010 -- the common incentive, Chris says, is large-scale businesses will ultimately save money in the long term.

“It depends upon the platform. Each platform has its own value proposition that comes up in terms of what sells it.” According to Chris, the potential cost savings of deploying Win 7 can range widely. He gave examples citing the ease of implementing standard user accounts through to power savings made via the broad eradication of unnecessary screensavers.

“In the IE[9] space, [user] capabilities are what I see as being the big sell, particularly when you look at what you can do with HTML5... With Office [2010] it's end user productivity.” He readily concedes deploying Office 2010 often requires staff training to overcome the likely post-adoption productivity dip, but says afterwards productivity goes “way up”.

“The [common] thing is it's all about money right? ... It costs you something to get there, but the end result is you should [save] more and if you plan it correctly, I can't think of a platform we're pushing right now where it doesn't come out that way.”

The writer travelled to Tech.Ed as a guest of Microsoft.



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BrownieBoy (User):

Anybody know how to tweak Adblock to block "articles" like this?

01 September 2011, 6:27 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Peter try hard (Cornerstone member):

The article is a blatant ad for microsoft software. The problem is that microsoft has made ahuge error from office 2007. Not everyone wants a ribbon interface. In fact, who asked for the changes? Also, Office 2010 shows just how many mistakes Microsoft can really make. Why didnt they include the undo and redo button as part of the ribbon? Why force users to google to find how to get these buttons? Doesnt Microsoft understand its users needs?

01 September 2011, 6:28 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Your Average Joe (User):

Quoting Peter try hard:
In fact, who asked for the changes?

Who asked for power steering, abs, esp, fuel injection ... etc.
It's called evolution.
By your reckoning we should still all be on horseback because it 'worked'.




01 September 2011, 8:34 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Jeff (New user):

fuel injection - useful and completely transparent to the driver.

abs - useful if you don't know how to brake properly and again is completely transparent to the user apart from the fact they can feel it kick in if they don't control the braking properly themselves.

power steering - again, completely transparent to the driver; requires no change in the way they use the vehicle, just uses less strength to turn the steering wheel.


The ribbon on the other hand is a fundamental change in they way you interact and use the software. Sure, it might make things easier for those who don't know how to use it properly, but for people like me who know how, it's slow, cumbersome and a complete waste of screen real estate

01 September 2011, 10:06 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Your Average Joe (User):

Quoting Jeff:
The ribbon on the other hand is a fundamental change

I would also suggest that moving from a horse to a 'horseless' carriage as a fundamental change too. And it looks like its here to stay.




01 September 2011, 11:40 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymousewiuu2945u389 (User):

Quoting Peter try hard:
Why didnt they include the undo and redo button as part of the ribbon? Why force users to google to find how to get these buttons?

Aren't they just on the toolbar up the top? If users are needing to Google to find them, they probably aren't looking hard enough. (Also, anyone who really knows what they're doing though would just use Ctrl-Z for undo anyway.)
Other buttons though are more of an issue...

01 September 2011, 7:33 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

KevinP (User):

While I agree that XP's security issues means it should be replaced by Win 7, the new Office versions are Microsoft's other Vista, once good software that was changed for the worse and is just a blatant attempt to keep screwing money from customers. Who needs to pay a few hundred dollars every 2-3 years for a new word processor or spreadsheet???? Why do I have to upgrade, particularly when the new Office products, like Word, come with a UI and an i-d-i-o-t Ribbon that actually makes usability worse? A Ribbon which has added more clicks in front of simple tasks then the previous version. If Microsoft can't convince people to shift to new versions of their software, I am not surprised.

01 September 2011, 10:14 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

ken04031960 (New user):

If Microsoft didn't charge so much to upgrade,maybe there wouldn't be as much an issue!
Why would you expect people to spend 100's of $$ if they don't need to!
Plus,I should have received a refund for vista...

01 September 2011, 11:16 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

TV Bis (New user):

Why do you think these software companies are in buisness?
Do you honestly think Micosoft or any other company would develope one product and then just stick with it?
The name of the game is to make money not to please every users who gets use to one product and refuses to update.
Anyway no one is forced to update. If you want to keep using older software then please do so. The only thing is that it will not be supported.
Developers take input from users and try and include these ideas in new realeases. Devolpers are not there just to make your computing lives more difficult. Yes sometimes it tends to look that way but in the end you cannot please everyone.
THE NAME OF THE GAME PEOPLE IS TO MAKE MONEY!
There sre three options for users:-
1. Upgrade if you can afford it,learn new and better ways of doing things.
2. Keep using old software, and struggle when you really do need to update.
3. Give up using computers and get a life.

01 September 2011, 1:46 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

DavidM (New user):

I am an XP user. My needs are simple, My earlier computer systems were all reasonable, especially considering the mobile phones are just 1.8ghz, AGP produces S3 trio32/64 output. The whole idea of TCP binary transmition protocol has macs takling pc's to mobile phones. Why do I need to change ? I bought an poperating system to fulfill a need, and am continually bbeing forced to upgrade/update to another bigger Moors's Law system, while May's Law erodes my productivity. If they did not stuff around with change for the sake of change i could get on with my needs and those that wanted toys could go out and play.

01 September 2011, 2:47 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

CCCMikey (New user):

Well, Access 2007 is a massive improvement on Access 2003, and 2010 a minor improvement on 2007.

Microsoft Word hasn't changed much since when I wrote a book in Microsoft Word 2.0 back in the '90s. The main features were pretty much all there back then and ran on a 386. (There was something different back then about using frames and then putting images inside them to control layout, but that's the only difference that comes to mind.)

01 September 2011, 3:47 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonimuos (New user):

There are plenty of reasons why people do not upgrade from Windows XP. Some of them are covered by strangely voluminous lists [1], [2]. Microsoft refuses to fix them, it is showing no signs of fixing them in Windows 8. All of them are extremely annoying.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_Vista

[2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_7

01 September 2011, 6:22 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Nato (New user):

The hardware vendors should not support outdated software with there new offerings, i think a intel i7 2600k or gtx 580 should not have drivers writen for stoneage software. Im on microsofts side, i love there operating system and i think they should be able to make some money as well.

01 September 2011, 6:36 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Peter try hard (Cornerstone member):

Your average joe - as quoted by senior management of a company that no longer exists, I dont want to see change for the sake of change. Cahnges shoudl be made to improve a product not make it worse. I did test the Office 2010 beta, and made sugestions - particularly about bringing back the undo/redo buttons.
So you really agree that microsoft have greatly improved their software by burying these features?
Why is Microsoft making it so hard to open files created in other programs. undfortunately, i use software that creates reports in lotus format. Until Offioce 2007, I was able to open Lotus files in Word and Excel as required. with 2007, that option was gone. then Microsoft decided that older versions of Office woudl not be able to open lotus files. The fix - rename the lotus file as a csv. this worked for a while, but then Microsoft changed their software again. Now I have to use open office.org to open these files. then I can save it in a format suitable for Microsoft Office to be able to open. So how does this endear me to Microsoft products?

01 September 2011, 7:00 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Your Average Joe (User):

Quoting Peter try hard:
as quoted by senior management of a company that no longer exists, I dont want to see change for the sake of change.

There you have it, change or die.

Quoting Peter try hard:
So you really agree that microsoft have greatly improved their software by burying these features?

No, I don't particularly like it, but it's getting more tolerable.


Quoting Peter try hard:
Why is Microsoft making it so hard to open files created in other programs

Why don't Holden tyres fit on Fords?

Quoting Peter try hard:
So how does this endear me to Microsoft products?

It sounds like MS will never endear themselves to your ilk.
But they are not designing for you or me, but for the majority.
The package seems to be doing great for the shareholders.

Of course, in the end, you don't have to update and just keep using OpenOffice .............. Best of luck with that.




01 September 2011, 8:13 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

deusexmachina (New user):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
It sounds like MS will never endear themselves to your ilk.
But they are not designing for you or me, but for the majority.
The package seems to be doing great for the shareholders.


I for one would like to thank AverageJoe for providing such helpful insights on here and wish him well in his quest to win Microsoft's Employee of the Decade!

The truth of the actual topic being discussed is that WIndows XP and Office 2003 are still completely functional for the vast majority of users which is MS's challenge. You could view this as they were good products which are still doing the job today and I think that's a fair assessment. One of the issues I have with all of these 'improvements' is that Microsoft are forced to come up with something shiny and new to try and justify to people to pay significant amounts of money to learn new ways of doing the same old tasks. I think they need a more streamlined evolutionary path for their products instead of the attempted big-bang revolutionary approach that worked so well with Vista...

02 September 2011, 12:12 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

plutonium210 (User):

Quoting deusexmachina:
for one would like to thank AverageJoe for providing such helpful insights on here and wish him well in his quest to win Microsoft's Employee of the Decade!

You're welcome.
I will try and remember to bring up your concerns at the next MS Design meeting :)




02 September 2011, 12:24 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Your Average Joe (User):

Quoting plutonium210:
will try and remember to bring up your concerns at the next MS Design meeting :)

Hey Bill, you better not turn up with your iPhone and iPad :)



02 September 2011, 1:12 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymousewiuu2945u389 (User):

Double post strikes again

01 September 2011, 7:14 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymousewiuu2945u389 (User):

Anonymuos, are you the same guy who goes on the crusade on every related website telling people to hold onto their XP licenses (of which I have none, by the way)?

Quoting Anonimuos:
All of them are extremely annoying.


No, not all of them are. Some will be to certain people, but I really don't care about not being able to manually hide the Windows Vista taskbar. Or only being able to see the Power taskbar icon on laptops and desktops with a USB UPS.

Or to be blunt, to me none of the features removed from Windows Vista matter anywhere near as much as the features removed from Windows XP compared to Vista, and the pain of finding installation media and time to actually perform the downgrade.

01 September 2011, 7:14 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymousewiuu2945u389 (User):

Personally, I've moved on from XP and Office 2003. Truth is, I don't have much legacy stuff to support, and my XP machines are all dead now (prematurely... thank you very much HP!) - and I don't see a reason to downgrade to XP if I get Vista working, which I have done. As for Office, I didn't find the Ribbon much of an issue (although there are a few things I still don't have my head around...) and I find it a small price to pay in exchange for being able to create PowerPoints that look (nearly) Keynote-quality, but without the restrictive techie-unfriendly hardware.

But I also understand that not everyone is in this category. Many people get on fine with XP, and I know people who prefer Office 2003 - and if that works, then stick with it. Simple as that. IE6, on the other hand, can't die soon enough - well past its use-by date!

01 September 2011, 7:27 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Peter try hard (Cornerstone member):

Your average Joe comment
It sounds like MS will never endear themselves to your ilk.
I actually lover server 2008 and I dont mind Vista. So I am not entirely anti Microsoft products.
i guess it all comes down as to whether I am too old to adapt to all these changes. I did find it quite hard moving from dos to windows. I started with lotus - written for DOS and Wordperfect!
i actually found the intial excell/word programs quite good. I wrote macros without any problems. And yet at some stage, the later versions of Office suites has passed me by!
i guess the real question is - shoudl Microsoft be writing software for the coming generation, or also making sure that new software meets the needs of current and future users. An example of writing software to suit bioth the old and the new users must be Windows control panel. It is called choice.
If I had my way, I would happily stop using XP at work and move on to Windows 7 - no problem at all!

02 September 2011, 12:02 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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