Can IE's architect explain why it's so bloated?

Angus Kidman04 October 2007, 12:59 AM

Microsoft's platform architect for Internet Explorer, Chris Wilson, admits Microsoft has done both good and bad things in IE over the last 14 years.


Good and bad: Microsoft's IE platform architect, Chris Wilson, admits he has done both in the last 14 years. The good: the first implementation of CSS in IE, the bad: overlapping <B> and <I> tags.Good and bad: Microsoft's IE platform architect, Chris Wilson, admits he has done both in the last 14 years. The good: the first implementation of CSS in IE, the bad: overlapping <B> and <I> tags.
My attempts to interview Chris Wilson, Microsoft's platform architect for Internet Explorer, appear threatened by technical difficulties even before the discussion begins. His temporary-conference-visitor speaker phone in Sydney won't work, then my computer crashes just before the interview starts, which in the sub-planet of Vista I'm forced to inhabit means a ten-minute reboot time.

Although annoying, this seems a strangely appropriate way to commence a discussion about Internet Explorer, the world's most widely-used -- and thus almost inevitably most widely-reviled -- web browser. There's nothing IE users like more than whining about performance and rendering problems.

So I kick off the discussion by asking about IE's ongoing difficulties with displaying PNG files, which started out as a transparency problem in IE6 and progressed to a downright refusal to display PNG images for some Vista IE7 users.

Wilson is quick to suggest the IE6 problem is no longer an issue -- "we have certainly some problems with PNG files in the past," he says, but that was confined to "narrow cases". However, it turns out he's unaware of the IE7 issue that is causing end-users much frustration.

Fixing this particular bug requires bizarre solutions such as switching off User Account Control, effectively meaning you have to choose between a browser that's more secure and a browser that actually works. That highlights one of the inevitable dilemmas in IE development: tight integration with Windows which means that troubleshooting can relate to almost anything but the browser itself.

"There's benefits and there's costs to it," Wilson concedes, but he doesn't see much merit in trying to separate IE from its Windows underpinnings. "To ship an operating system that didn't have a browser in it wouldn't be sensible. It's a system service. The interesting part for us is we get to rely on the Windows system to provide capabilities for us."

And yet, despite relying on Windows to provide many capabilities, a standard download for IE7 weighs in at 15MB, compared to Firefox's comparatively slimline 6MB. What's that about?

"The big challenge for us is we don't run on just one version of Windows. We can't rely on things that are just in Windows Vista." Relying on anything in Vista might be dangerous, I want to suggest, but that might just induce my PC to crash again out of spite.

Wilson is still talking as I fume. "A lot of the things that make IE larger are really that it's delivered as a set of system services that are essentially atoms for Windows. You can use just parts of the browser. It's componentised very specifically so you can do that.

Plus there's the ongoing dilemma of backward compatibility to consider. "We have a lot of code specifically around compatibility. There's a lot of functionality in there to make sure that code will continue to render older sites correctly."

That problem in turn highlights the other big issue in browser development: the fact that hardly any browser ever seems to properly support W3C standards. After more than a decade of browser development, why is it still not happening?

"It's great when there is a clear and well-defined standard," Wilson says. "I've spent a lot of my career working on developing standards with the W3C, and unfortunately they're not that well-defined the first time out."

And then we're back to the compatibility argument. "We may have done something that wasn't really clearly specified in the specification. We need to change that in a browser release, but the behaviour we used to do is already out there. Once we do that in a new browser, we break a lot of content if we're not very careful." There's light at the end of the tunnel, Wilson believes: "We've gotten better in the IE7 cycle and since then in figuring out how to deprecate that code slowly.

Speaking of new browsers: although Microsoft PR had suggested that Wilson could "talk about what's next", he turns out not to be at all keen to do so. "I can't really comment on any of our plans for the next version of IE" is his opening gambit when I ask.

OK, I'll try another tack. Given that the most obvious change in IE7 was the introduction of tabs, a feature rather obviously filched from Firefox, what feature from a rival browser would Wilson most like to adopt next?

"When I look at the other browsers out there, I can see a number of features that are admirable, but most of them I wouldn't want to put in directly," he says. As an example, he cites the Firefox add-in sub-culture, which he describes as "a really great user community". Microsoft wouldn't do that, though, because it would make troubleshooting so hard, he says.

One hint he does offer is in the equally contentious area of browser security. "There's some new developments underway -- though they're going to take a couple of years -- trying to figure out ways that are safer to share data from different domains, so we won't have to keep asking the user security questions. Asking the user questions doesn't really work. As a user, I've got a 50% chance that you're actually going to read it."

Firefox has reintroduced competition to the browser market, aided by other rivals like Opera and Safari, so Microsoft can't afford to coast with IE the way it did in the early part of the decade. What factors does Wilson think influence people to move away from what is, for Windows users at any rate, a deeply embedded default choice?

"There are many answers to why people might choose to try another browser. One of the ones that is most frustrating to me for people choosing to try a different browser other than IE is security. We've developed a real culture of security inside the product development team. The hard part is that when you have the bulk of the market share, hackers are going to try and exploit you first."

Perhaps predictably given that Wilson doesn't want to separate IE from Windows, he doesn't have much room for the view that the browser on its own will become the main means of delivering applications. "There's two ways to think of a browser: one is as a user interface and the other thing is an implementation of a particular platform." The latter is deficient, he suggests: "The Web platform doesn't leverage local capabilities anywhere near enough. It doesn't have local graphics support, for instance, or local data."

What are his thoughts, then, on Google's Gears initiative, which sidesteps the first problem by providing an interface that's basic but functional (rather than, say, needlessly bloated like Vista's Aero), and is working hard to solve the data issue?

"I think it's an interesting step. I'm not totally sure why they choose the set of functionality that they did and not the other things that went along with that, but some of those things would be really hard to do." For instance? "Developing real offline control and writing real offline Web applications is really hard to do without a deployment model that the browser is managing." Whether Microsoft could do that any better is a question we'll have to wait for a future release to answer, I suppose.

Even without the technical problems, shifting into browser mode also be confusing for typical PC users, he suggests. "As a user paradigm, I just don't think everything fits. When I'm using email, I don't like the Back button working the same way as it does in a browser. I'm not convinced that the browser interface will take the place of everything."

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alistaircase:

This may be a bit off topic, but it is something I have been wanting to say for a long time.

First, a query about the article: why does your computer take 10 minutes to boot Vista? Mine takes about 1 minute, and I think that is slow.

Second, I have never found a problem with IE7 on Vista. This may not be the case with others, but I am just providing my own experience. I have had my computer for 6 months, and haven't even had to install Firefox or any other alternative browser at all.

Finally, online apps. I don't know much about online apps, but in anycase I would prefer to have something that I can use if I have no internet or I have reached my donwload quota. I have a download usage of 2GB peak and 4GB offpeak, so this in my understanding could happan quite a bit, because I already come very close. Before you say it, I am not complaining about long downloading times and such as I have a cable connection, but I think it is just more convenient to have them on the computer at the moment with current technology. Maybe in the future when the online apps have developed to the same extent that normal apps have then I would consider it. If someone replies to my comment saying online apps can work offline, then what is the point? It is like a normal application.

Sorry. Rant over. Thanks.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dr_Venture:

Skipping around and addressing your pre-addressing of the purpose of online applications, it's a simple way to access and work with your date from any computer on the planet, without having to install, for instance, Open Office or Microsoft Office.
You have a daily peak? Get a new ISP this week. Seriously.
Booting: When I have to upgrade Windows Vista, it takes the computer about 8 minutes from hitting the button to signing back into my services like pidgin( like AIM). I don't know why this is, but it's pathetic, and pretending that you're shutting down by sleeping is like pretending that I was sleeping when my parents checked on me when I was 10.
Going to the last thing I missed: I have no idea... I don't use IE 7 because Firefox has add-ons and because people always tell me that Internet Explorer is faulty. It may or may not be, but downloading updates for it and being told of that over and over and over again makes me question its stability, That's all.
Anyway, that's my take.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

alistaircase:

I'm not pretending - a full restart - shutting down, posting and so on, logging in, the whole schmozzle, takes about a minute. As soon as my desktop is displayed (which is after about 3 seconds from clicking my username) I can run Outlook, IE, Word, anything straight away. This is also with NIS 2008, which I have to say is an excellent program. Sleeping: about 8 seconds to sleep, 2 seconds to get back on.

it's a simple way to access and work with your data from any computer on the planet,

Yeah - it requires an internet connection and a fast one at that to provide the convenience. If you are referring to your files as well, thats what a USB drive or an FTP server or any other online storage centres are for. Most computers have notepad or wordpad or something anyway, even Microsoft works.

Get a new ISP? I only know 2 cable providers, one is Telstra, one is Optus, I am on Optus, am perfectly happy with my plan atm and dont want to change. If i upgraded my plan, it would cost another $20 per month, therefore throughout the 24 month contract $480 whereas I got my full copy of Office 2007 Ultimate for $75. Online apps are beaten on price and convenience at the moment.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Filbert Alderpont:

This is a pro-Linux site. If you believe for one second that his Vista computer *really* took ten minutes to boot then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like you to consider buying...

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

tin:

There's nothing IE users like more than whining about performance and rendering problems.

Then switch elsewhere... Best thing I ever did was choose to use Firefox back in the old days. If for some reason you still don't like Firefox, try something else (Safari, Opera, Mozilla, and even Netscape is still around I think).

If it's a case of not being allowed to install Firefox at work/school... Point the admins to "FrontMotion Firefox". It will allow them to do most of the same locking down and pre-configuring that they can do with IE.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Psychotic Ape:

Firefox was great in its earlier days, but now it has become more bloated then IE. Too many features cause it to be slower then IE, for example the phishing detector (which I have disabled) is unnecessary for experienced users, and it adds to the bulkiness of an otherwise great program. Also the auto-suggest for the search and there are endless features that aren't all that useful, plus Quirks mode on Firefox is pretty bad in itself - overall Firefox needs to be redone from scratch or from the earliest working build which was something like .075. Memory consumption on Firefox is the biggest problem, and right now IE outperforms in that area.

But Opera kicks every browsers behind in all these aspects, the only problem is that some sites don't show up properly because Opera enforces standards compliance.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

nickg:

I'm in 1000% total agreement with you here. Yes, Firefox was a great alternative to IE, and I started using it when it first came out.

But I decided to give Opera another try after not using it for many years. First thing I noticed is that it is about 1/4 the footprint of Firefox, which shows how much bloat FF had gained over the years.

And true, some pages may not render properly, but those are really few and far between.

And I'm not an "add-on" or "widget" fan so I couldn't care less about any of these "fancy" features no matter whose browser I'm using.

I've found Opera to be quicker, an easy to use browser, just as feature rich as any other browser and, as stated, much smaller then both IE and FF.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

dateman:

They dont want to separate IE from Windows??? Microsoft really need to get a clue. He's right that you can't ship an OS without a browser but come on, how do you make the jump and say it has to be integrated with the OS???

The functionality and stability of FF/M/O just makes most of his points laughable...especially about how good security is now!!!

You can never believe a closed-source shop that they have produced anything stable or secure...until it is out there, and then it is usually too late.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Techni:

I am a Windows developer, and I've made apps that use Internet explorer. That's why I'm glad it's integrated. You CAN'T make apps that use firefox/opera, you can't count on them being there, and they aren't setup like IE to let you use them.

IE is integrated because it HAS to be for developers.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

dateman:

You cant make apps for ff/m/o?

Google apps don't appear to give a damn which browser you use...as it should be. Proprietary hooks might make it easier, but they'll bite in the long run.

If IE is primarily there for the convenience of developers, then go right on developing for it...I won't be using IE or your apps.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Techni:

"I won't be using IE or your apps"

I don't care about you though. I have a significantly large enough group that does. And the main program they use, uses IE.

Thankfully, I can count on it being there in 100% of the PCs that use my app.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

blank:

What, praytell, features of IE do you _actually_ use?

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

irCuBiC:

Actually, depending on what you mean by "using" (I'm going to assume that you mean using the IE engine to render/handle net-related things), you can in fact use Gecko (the rendering engine upon which the rest of firefox and other Mozilla products are built) in any application. In fact, my RSS reader uses it to provide rendering of feed elements.

Of course, you can't rely on it being always present, but that's a dependency issue which is also present in many applications and could be solved by bundling (the de-facto solution on Windows it seems, at least for DLLs), or informing the user where to get the dependency (the "nix" way).

Not perfect, of course, but it IS certainly possible, and yes, they HAVE set it up so that it is reusable.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Stanley:

Firefox can just as easily be used as a component of any application and you can bundle the Firefox runtime with your application if you need to have it "just be there". In addition, due to the way Firefox is architected, you can also create cross platform applications so that your app can run on the 6% (and growing) of systems that don't run Windows.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Techni:

"What, praytell, features of IE do you _actually_ use?"

I use IE itself in my programs. Unlike FF/etc, IE is an object I can embed in a program, then access it completely.

I am not interested in turning my programs into firefox plugins, as then I'd be forced to work within the limitations of that, with reduced debugging capabilities and reduces target audience.

And I already said I can count on IE being present, you can't count on FF/etc at all. And that is a HUGE advantage to developers.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Jeremy:

"I use IE itself in my programs. Unlike FF/etc, IE is an object I can embed in a program, then access it completely."

Yeah, you don't seem to understand. You CAN do that with Gecko (like others have already said). Gecko is the rendering engine for Firefox, like Trident is the rendering engine for IE. And plugins are part of Firefox, not Gecko, like toolbar add-ons are a part of IE, not Trident.

I really don't understand the mentality among developers that makes one insist that there is no other solution then the one they have concocted. You apparently sell software that you have written. Yet you've intentionally chosen to be ignorant in your field. Not only that, but you're indignant about it.

Since leaving Windows, the biggest thing that I happy to get away from is its developers.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

xyz:

that guy's point was that if you install your software on joe blow's computer you can always use the IE component because it's part of the os. gecko may or may not be there.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Stephen Gentle:

It's not that hard to check if Gecko is installed and install it if it isn't in our app's installer though...

And with Gecko, you also get the performance of the Gecko rendering engine, and it's superior (to IE) rendering capabilities.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymuos:

So, in short, we'll be stuck at 60%, 70%, 80% standards support by IE8, IE9 and IE10 just for fear of breaking sites and backward compatibility. Doesn't MS get that IE is lacking so much standards support that a clean break is necessary, MS doesn't need to preserve backward compatibility with this product when so much is left to do, though many would say that it has "decent" support. Meanwhile, Firefox 3.0 looks to be a solid upgrade with many many many new features and improvements on all aspects (rendering, developer features, user features, extensibility). I'm finally switching, I'm myself surprised I've not switched yet. Or even the great Opera 10.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Steve S:

What many people don't realize is that when MS talks about backward compatibility they are not worried about joe websites. The real concern is the billions (yes billions) of dollars of custom software that was/is written for large companies. Most of this custom software relies heavily on IE to render. So from a web perspective... who cares if IE starts over... from the custom software perspective... who wants to tell corporate America that all the software has to be rewritten because MS is trying to please some internet goobers?



29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

derekguy:

As usual no direct answers from the horses mouth...

Opera 10? I think it is at 9.23 (that is what the website is offering for download)

I use three browsers to test websites and Opera is by far my favourite although it is not "supported" by my universities intranet system it still works well and it light and fast.

Opera has much of what Firefox plugins provide built in. Perfect.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

old fart:

As a reader who's old enough to remember quite vividly the "Browser wars" in the 90's (remember? IE vs Netscape in a quest to see who could make a more bloated browser?), I'm more than a little surprised to see Microsoft openly talking about integration of IE with their OS. Wasn't that at the heart of the antitrust lawsuit in the 90's that saw Microsoft punished by the justice department (for "bundling" a browser in their OS?).



29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

j.monty:

You had the opportunity to interview the architect of IE and this article is what you come up with? I feel like you missed an opportunity to ask some more interesting questions.

-10 minutes to boot vista? you need to get that fixed. I don't know anyone whose takes that long.
-Do end users really care if the browser is tied to the OS? do i care? not really
-"weighs 15MB" - 15MB is bloat? hardly.

I use firefox, IE6 and IE7 every day. They all equally browse the web site I visit without issue. Granted they all have their quirks, things are not quite as bad as you paint them.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Some web developer:

That is because the web developer who created those websites painstakingly made them cross browser compatible.

Adding IE support to a website is a drain on time/resources.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Fran Taylor:

because you don't have to deal with custom web sites for internal use by companies and such. These sites are invariably written using some sort of Microsoft tool that generates pages that only work with IE. A good example is the site that sets up Comcast cable modem service. These sites gratuitously use ActiveX stuff instead of the standard html controls. Often they are written by non-programmers who don't know the first thing about a proper user interface. These websites are just evil. Sometimes you can't even screenscrape them and provide a better interface because the screenscraper would have to emulate big chunks of IE.


29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Simon Cooke:

This problem also occurs on XP SP2. It's a bug in Quicktime. Quite why they feel the need to override PNG rendering in IE and do it through Quicktime, I have no idea. It's certainly not to give alpha channel support.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Borat Sagdiyev:

Adobe Air is a bold attempt at addressing the 'local capabilities' issue.


29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

DagMX:

I'd like to point out two things, mainly from being an opera user myself.

You point out that IE is a fatter download the firefox with similiar or less features. Firefox is in turn fatter than Opera, despite Opera having many more features.

Secondly, you mention tabs being stolen from firefox. Opera had tabs first. In fact a lot of modern browser features have been available in opera for quite some time.

I appreciate the interview, but there is more than a little bias towards one browser.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymouse:

MSIE has a long way to get to Opera's level.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

cogidubnus:

Trouble is with IE (and I speak as a long long long term user) it's now SO bloated and full of "features" it's actually non-functional...Vista ditto...I've reverted with no great regrets to XP and decided to try out Firefox, which a little to my surprise I've discovered to be a superb little browser...MS have maybe, another chance after Vista to persuade me an OS upgrade might be worthwhile...but I'm lost to them forever as regards IE...Firefox really is THAT good...

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

That one guy:

My biggest gripe about this article is about keeping IE embedded into Windows. I have never been a fan of this approach and it has only proven time and time again that it is detrimental to the OS. Sure you can make a patched up framework that stops this exploit or that one, but you are going to be constantly doing that. Why not just break the two a part so that one doesn't effect the other?

Ugh, when will MS get a clue.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

ktk:

Say there, it would be a good idea to let the Microsoft guy respond to this ridiculously obnoxious fanboy rant you're trying to pass off as an "interview", which I'm sure he didn't get to read before you published it. That "Vista takes ten minutes to boot" bit is hilarious, BTW. You should definitely consider writing copy for The Onion.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Angus Kidman:

Of course Wilson didn't get to read the interview before it was published -- as a professional journalist, I'm not in the business of granting copy approval to corporate spokespeople. Are you actually accusing me of making the quotes up?

Regarding Vista: believe me, I wish I could laugh about the fact it takes 10 minutes to boot -- but that's the reality on my current system (and I think the article makes it clear that this is my experience, not a universal claim).

 



29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Skuff:

This interview again demonstrates the "school yard name calling" approach some so called OpenSource (to coin a phrase) supporters are turning using.

Also, I believe Opera was the first browser to introduce tabbed browsing. Do we mention Firefox nicking that idea from the mighty Opera? No, of course not. But as soon as Microsoft use this approach with IE7, well, they've just nicked it off Firefox.

Here I am thinking that sharing ideas and technology improves the over all experience for all of us, isn't that the principle and belief of OpenSource? Practice what you preach people.

What a biased interview.

10 minutes for Vista boot up! I would suggest calling your IT department. Thats is not right.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Hexx:

Opera was the first. I stopped reading the editorial after I read that and just read the meat.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Matt:

When you write something like "the most obvious change in IE7 was the introduction of tabs, a feature rather obviously filched from Firefox," you are positioning yourself as an ignorant writer with an axe to grind. Opera had tabbed browsing before Firefox even existed, but who filched what shouldn't even be a part of the article. The interview itself is fairly decent, and the snippy commentary is unnecessary.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

knoid:

"...the introduction of tabs, a feature rather obviously filched from Firefox..."

Opera had tabbed browsing before Firefox, but an IE plugin gave it tabbed browsing prior to Opera.

Per Wikipedia, the first browser to use tabbed windows was Internetworks in '94.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

BinaryDemon:

'OK, I'll try another tack. Given that the most obvious change in IE7 was the introduction of tabs, a feature rather obviously filched from Firefox...'

You do realize Firefox filched tabs from Opera, right?

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

warpozio:

They both weren't the first to implement tabbed browsing ;)

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

techdribble:

"which in the sub-planet of Vista I'm forced to inhabit means a ten-minute reboot time."
If you machine is taking 10 minutes to reboot then I suggest you have other problems. Dont a blame an OS for a badly configured machine or crap hardware.
Neither my Vista laptop or PC take anywhere near 10 minutes.


29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Michael Ott:

10 minute boot time? Your machine sucks dude. I am running Vista Ultimate on both a desktop and Laptop, and boot timers are only around 1 minute.

Maybe uninstall all those IE toolbars and other bloatare you have launching at startup.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

xxdesmus:

Off topic: I dislike IE just as much as the next web designer/developer/user, but when you start off any article looking at Internet Explorer by mindlessly blabbering about Vista being horrible, slow reboot, IE crashing, blah blah blah ... you ruined any credibility you might have had. You clearly dislike Microsoft products, and you clearly are incapable of writing an article that is not biased.

I'll file this article (and this magazine for supporting you) under steaming pile of s**t. Thanks for your "hard work" on this article.

On topic:
Microsoft is in a tough place. They cannot simply "break" from IE7/8's support of web standards. They simply cannot break literally hundreds of millions of websites around the world. They would likely be sued into oblivion if they did that (damages because of loss of business, downtime, and other such ridiculous things). The point is, they are in a very tough place. They know there (minority) users want better web standards, but they also need to maintain some vague notion of backwards compatibility. Oh, wake up call, 98% of IE users could not care any less about web standards. Mom and pop just want to check there email, view family photos, and maybe check Ebay. They do not care about web standards or web accessibility.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

derek:

"...you ruined any credibility you might have had. You clearly dislike Microsoft products, and you clearly are incapable of writing an article that is not biased."

This guy clearly only reads news reports. I found the article a good read. I think a writers job is expressing their opinion, and you have done just that. Saying your "incapable" of writing a "non-biased" article is a little extreme.

All of you have no clue, I use Lynx for all my web browsing. All text and no graphics. Who needs to see that dancing Apple I-phone you just won! And no, I don't want to meet sexy singles in my area.

But I'm clearly biased, and Ive ruined any credibility I might have had. I clearly dislike Microsoft products, and I am clearly incapable of writing an article that is not biased. Clearly.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tim:

Do you seriously use Lynx??

Cool.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

A. Bassler:

You really need to have someone with some expertise look at your machine if it takes 10 mintues to boot. I upgrade machines from XP to Vista evry day as part of my job and even the oldest hardware in our company with crufty hard drives never take 10 minutes to boot. Might be a good time to have someone with a bit of expertise take a look at your machine.


29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Fran Taylor:

What is up with ActiveX? Is it alive or is it dead? Why didn't you ask? I cringed when I first heard about it back in the 90's, it sounded like a security disaster from day 1. I can't imagine that it's even possible to fix it.

Bloat is a matter of perspective. They used to call emacs bloated, today it looks trim and spartan next to programs like Firefox and OpenOffice, even though it has also grown considerably over the years.

The problem with their security model is that IE has a huge API exposed to all the rest of Windows, and even if the entire IE team is on board the Security wagon, all it takes is one bad line of code anywhere else in Windows to result in an ugly security flaw. I bet they cannot say that every developer at Microsoft who writes code that touches the browser has been fully briefed on all the security techniques, and uses all the automated testing tools on all their code.

I also bet there is a lot of legacy code in Windows that fails lots of their internal automated code review processes, but is necessary for compatibility reasons, and nobody has ever been able to figure out how it works. NT code has been around for a long time. Microsoft developers burn out and turn over at an alarming rate (I've known several), so there's probably nobody left working there who understands how a lot of it works.


29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

SteveL:

"the most obvious change in IE7 was the introduction of tabs, a feature rather obviously filched from Firefox.."

and I understand Opera had tabs before Firefox :-)

SteveL

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me:

So much for your impartiality as an editor. It's clearly that you've made your mind up on the topic even before you started the interview, but the really sad thing is that you've actually managed to take an interview to yourself and output your own thoughts about IE and Windows Vista. If it wasn't for Chris, this would have made such a wonderful monologue. I really don't understand why do you people hit on Microsoft and their products like that? Do you think Linux is the answer, or perhaps firefox? Well, apparently, most people living on this planet and who are not Linux addicted/fanatic believe otherwise. Linux will be worth taking a look at when it will start being more user friendly. But that ain't gonna happen for me and Joe Doe. It'll be suitable for you geeks out there, who are just too blind to see that their personal beliefs can be so different from reality.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

g.m:

"Do you think Linux is the answer, or perhaps firefox? Well, apparently, most people living on this planet and who are not Linux addicted/fanatic believe otherwise."

No they don't 'believe otherwise', they simply use whatever is bundled with the computer when they buy it. If, when buying a computer, they were shown a demo (with pros and cons of each pointed out) and allowed to choose their operating system and browser, things may not be so clear cut.

That fact that firefox and linux are increasing in popularity shows that people want choice, and exercise choice. If the public is made more aware of the choices -and major PC manufacturers are starting to include preinstalled Linux options - firefox, Linux and other free open-source software would make substantial inroads in market share.

Don't be so afraid of choice, or afraid of change.

ps. - linux with firefox is being used by several non-geeks I know. They now enjoy browsing without all the security fears and hassles of antivirus, spyware, wga, uac, drm, etc

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

stx:

To be Fair, I really haven't had any problems with IE7, I just can't stand using it, I've never liked any of the IE browsers and as soon as a viable alternative arrives I use that instead.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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