CHRISTMAS SHOCK: Australian government to trial P2P filters

Angus Kidman
24 December 2008, 6:22 PM


The Rudd government didn't tell voters before the election, but now it has revealed it will filter illegal P2P transfers at a government level as part of its ISP filtering plan.


One of the many trenchant criticisms of the proposed Australian Internet filter is that in its originally proposed form, it didn't include anything other than Web-based content. The government solution to that quandary? Add P2P to the list of the content types that the still-murky filter systems will have to try and sort through.

Since releasing its murky and contradictory guidelines for ISPs participating in filtering trials, the Federal Government has been largely silent on the issues surrounding the filter, despite widespread public protests over the event. In the past week, however, more details have emerged, albeit largely due to pressure from elsewhere.

On the somewhat derided governmental blog, broadband minister Senator Stephen Conroy revealed that the trial was expected to include a variety of platforms, including peer-to-peer content. "Technology that filters peer-to-peer and BitTorrent traffic does exist and it is anticipated that the effectiveness of this will be tested in the live pilot trial," Conroy wrote. Conroy did not identify any such technology, and it is not mentioned in the briefing documents on the proposal.

On the blog, Conroy has provided responses to a number of common criticisms, but few are definitive and most leave plenty of wriggle room. For instance, Conroy noted that there were no plans to publish details of the contents of the blacklist of banned Internet sites, noting that the majority of that content was child pornography. However, he did not respond to the suggestion that content which didn't fall into that category but which was banned should be identified.

In the same way, Conroy noted that ACMA uses the classification guidelines which apply to movies and games when monitoring sites, but didn't discuss the fact that these impose different judgements on game content than on movies. That leaves the Internet wide-open to judgement by the more restrictive rules much-ridiculed rules applied to games.

As for concerns over speed, Conroy wrote: "We're undertaking a live trial of filtering technologies in order to collect evidence of the technical dimensions of internet filtering." However, that statement doesn't actually leave open the possibility that the plan would be dumped if (as many suspect) it creates a major slowdown. In other words: we'll know exactly how much we'll slow you down before we do it.

Conroy also this week belatedly issued a response to a much-discussed analysis of filtering technologies by the Internet Industry Association (IIA), which had been commissioned by the Howard Government but remained unreleased until widespread media discussion of its content. The IIA report echoed much of the criticisms of the current filtering proposal, pointing out that it would be virtually impossible to manage and easily open to abuse.

Conroy said that the document was merely a literature review, unrelated to Labor's specific plans and not an empirical test. However, he has previously shown a willingness to be highly selective when looking at empirical tests. For instance, when looking at ACMA's review of how limited-scale blacklisting had worked, which was released in July, Conroy welcomed "advances in Internet filtering technology" without remarking on the speed impacts and large number of false positives which ACMA had also identified.

Conroy has also confirmed that broader filtering trials will begin in mid-January, making it one of the more slowly implemented policies of the Rudd government's initial terms. Participating ISPs have not been named, although Telstra, Australia's largest ISP, will not be participating.


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Your Average Joe (User):

Can this be getting any worse from Kim Il Rudd and Co. !


24 December 2008, 6:35 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

marsvolta (New user):

this wont affect the next election... maybe 1 in 100 people are nerds who download illegal stuff off the net

not a big loss.



25 December 2008, 3:23 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Sylvia Else (New user):

marsvolta, it's not just people who download illegal material. It's all those who don't like the idea of the government spying on them, and controlling an important source of information.

25 December 2008, 3:32 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (User):

Quoting marsvolta:
maybe 1 in 100 people are nerds who download illegal stuff off the net


Are you serious? You think this only effects 1 in 100? And only nerds who download illegal stuff?
Any filtering effects everyone it's applied to at some time. Whether it be slowdowns because the filtering device can't keep up with demand, or simply because some rule blocks things it shouldn't.

Frankly, I'd be pissed if I ever got hit with a false detection. Mostly because I spend all day dealing with that crap at work, where I enjoy slowdowns and false detection from a government implemented filter quite regularly.

25 December 2008, 3:35 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

McBanjo (New user):

I know the easiest way to loose an election. Do exactly this. People don't forget something like this.

24 December 2008, 7:12 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

buddy411 (New user):

Cool, now Australia has about as much freedom as China! When does the great wall go up? This is so f'ed it is beyond belief! Why doesn't the government try dealing with real problems before they go creating new ones... I will drop my ISP so fast if they get involved with this it isn't funny! I'd rather go without internet than be associated with censorship at this level!

24 December 2008, 7:45 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

buddy411 (New user):

Oh, did I mention this is a crock of sheeeet!

24 December 2008, 7:49 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (New user):

I had enough brains not to vote these bastards in, sadly many dreamers did not! At least two more years of damage to go, and it'll take a decade to put right when they're gone and enjoying their plump pensions.

Just like NSW labor uses public holidays to slip through their endless toll increases, Kev and Conroy choose the Christmas break to launch another hair-brain scheme that will not work and that no-one, other than a few fanatics, wanted.

Merry Christmas Kev, I hope you get your tongue caught in the Christmas lights, you smug self serving vandal.

Fuel Watch - pointless ineffectual and now shelved
Grocery Watch - Another pointless and expensive bungle
Net Filtering - Watch this space for upcoming disaster and bungle

24 December 2008, 8:25 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (User):

Quoting Raindog:
another hair-brain scheme that will not work and that no-one, other than a few fanatics, wanted.


Heck, even half the usual fanatics don't want it!
And we've also got Telstra agreeing with their competitors about it!

25 December 2008, 12:55 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Henry Chim (User):

Wow thanks Mr Krudd

24 December 2008, 9:11 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Sylvia Else (New user):

Any p2p filtering would remain effective for at most a few weeks after it went live, because as soon as open source developers can see what it's doing, they can develop counter measures. Thus will start an expensive development arms race that suppliers of the filtering software will love, but will cost the paying public an arm and a leg for something that will spend most of its time scarcely working at all.

24 December 2008, 10:17 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

S.Hedgehog (New user):

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever come across, I bet if we knew exactly what was going to be done when cRudd was voted in i bet NO ONE would have voted him in except for the nancy pants wishy washy 'family first' people which are a VERY small minority therefore this would not have happened..

cRudd F off and stop this monstrosity from ever coming to pass, we never asked for this nor should we have it.. if it does come to pass we should as responsible adults should be the ONLY ones making the decisions regarding this matter not those in their cushy seats who dont have an inkling of how bad the service is going to get (its bad as it is)..

NBN ??? PAH! thats stupid.. in the usa they are rolling out FiOS (FTTH) not to the FTTN) which is pathetic to start with.. So Kevin cRudd, we all VOTE N.O.!!!! to this filtering process. So stick that up ur pipe and smoke it.

25 December 2008, 12:01 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Morphware (New user):

Who here knows what HTTP tunnelling is? No matter what "filtering" they try to use there is always a way to circumvent it, that is the nature of the internet.

25 December 2008, 2:37 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Moose (New user):

Senator Stephen Conroy’s has lied over and over again he knows this isn't what people want but continues to push forward. He should be sacked. Who want slow filtered internet like china, letting our government suppress us like china does to it internet users. The internet is meant to be unrestricted. How about teaching people to be adults/kids to use the internet responsibility. How many paedophiles have been caught all around the world through tracking on the internet. Police use it as a tool. This would never happen in America they have freedom of speech we don't. So other country's around will be able to use the internet for their own progression while we will be left with sloppy, filtered slow internet.
Looks like were all voting Green Next time.

25 December 2008, 9:52 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Sylvia Else (New user):

Conroy says that the IIA report was not an empirical test. But Conroy's plans don't amount to an empirical test either, because the filter will not be exposed to the challenges created when open source developers decide to implement countermeasures. So all Conroy will show (and possibly not even that), is that p2p filters can work in a benign environment. Since the Internet is not such an environment, the tests will prove nothing useful.

25 December 2008, 11:26 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Horry (New user):

Hi Sylvia,

Why do you specifically nominate "open source" developers, rather than developers in general?

Merry Christmas,
Horry.

25 December 2008, 2:29 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Sylvia Else (New user):

Horry, I think it would be foolish for non-open source software to be trusted to contain genuine anti-filter mechanisms. Any closed-source software might have been developed in collaboration with the government. The people who develop anti-filter software may work in the closed-source industry as well, but while they're working on open-source software, they're open source developers.

25 December 2008, 3:28 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Brucey (New user):

It's time we've had a ref random over this issue.
If all Kev & his mates want, is to protect us from "bad content".
Then he should ask us if we want to have a net nanny or not.

Bruce

25 December 2008, 4:32 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Max Rock (New user):

How can the government filter something they don't understand without stuffing it totally. Not only is it immoral but it goes against the ideals of a free society within a secular state. We must, more than ever keep the overtly religious types in line as they will have us all thinking like them-selves given halve a chance.

25 December 2008, 7:47 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Darth Garfunkel (New user):

Conroy isn't fit to wipe the sweat of my musky taint.

25 December 2008, 11:12 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Darth Garfunkel (New user):

Conroy isn't fit to wipe the sweat off my musky taint.

25 December 2008, 11:12 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Darth Garfunkel (New user):

Conroy isn't fit to wipe the sweat off my musky taint.

25 December 2008, 11:15 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Morsolo (New user):

I've got no issues with the filter, because I know that no matter what it ends up blocking (HTTP or P2P) I can get around it...

I am simply worried about the speed hit...

Filter = Slow Down
Proxy/VPN/Tunnel = Slow Down

That's a lot of slowing down, I pay extremely good money to get Internode ADSL+ (8mbit) because I can't get ADSL2+ on my exchange and this is what I get? If the estimated 80% speed cut drops in and then the extra little from bypassing the filter, I'll be paying 8mbit money for a 1.5mbit connection (At most)

26 December 2008, 7:25 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

zag (New user):

Labor has already lost the votes when it came into office the alcohol pops laws and the net laws is just proving why they'll never get in again with the current people.

The have lost every vote since they got in.


26 December 2008, 12:13 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Concerned Citizen (New user):

What a load. The second headline makes the distinction that it will filter illegal P2P downloads, but the truth of the matter is that it will filter all.

Or is APC trying to insinuate that there are no such thing as legal P2P downloads?

26 December 2008, 4:56 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

quantocks (New user):

hi guys,

don't worry - the filter WILL slow us all down, just use a private VPN to access the sites regardless of what is on their list.

going by what Conjob is saying, anything X-rated will be instantly blacklisted. Half of the sites I go to have porn advertisements = banned.

http://www.openvpn.net/

26 December 2008, 10:51 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

$teeve Pink (New user):

The Jesus Freaks may be having a silent giggle along with the likes of AFACT whilst they now have the politicians dancing to their tune however the silent majority WILL change that tune before the next election.
Then we will watch them dance for US not the religious fruit cakes, political zealots or the financial number crunchers from the big end town worried about the loss of profits to their overpriced products.

27 December 2008, 4:05 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (User):

What makes you think it's the "Jesus Freaks" that are the ones pushing this? The biggest people speaking *for* these laws are random idiot parents. None of the ones I've heard speak up about it have ended their speech with "God bless" or similar.

For the record, $teeve... I've not heard anyone at my church say anything positive about this filtering proposal. And it's been discussed a number of times.

27 December 2008, 7:08 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

$teeve Pink (New user):

Quoting Tin:
What makes you think it's the "Jesus Freaks" that are the ones pushing this?

Use your computer and find out!

From news.com.au

"But the Australian Christian Lobby yesterday welcomed the Government's proposals.

Its managing director Jim Wallace said he expected resistance from the industry but the measures were needed.

"The need to prevent access to illegal hard-core material and child pornography must be placed above the industry's desire for unfettered access," Mr Wallace said."

Apparently the Catholic priests are very quiet on this issue!



28 December 2008, 9:48 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Tin:
The biggest people speaking *for* these laws are random idiot parents.

Just the random idiots, those who are too stupid to run their own lives and want everything done for them. Chairman Kev knows how to work that crowd.

You can expect the usual suspects from the religious side too doesn't make them representative. There is a lot of similarities between Fred Nile and K Rudd, both see fit to push whatever they choose and then ti claim it is representative of the views of others.

A lot of regional Australia would now have fast broadbrand if Conroy had not been given the keys, look what we now have as an alternative.

Next time a politician offers you something for nothing remember he intends talking or taxing you somethings and delivering you sugar coated nothings. While ever the population are apathetic enough to accept this it is what they will receive.


28 December 2008, 11:15 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Jeff1 (New user):

Not worried. If they introduce this, then they will send millions of Australian dollars off shore when everyone goes and buys Virtual Servers in America to setup a VPN on to do all their surfing and P2P, and they will make it that much harder for law enforcement to police P2P simply because Australian homes won't have 100's of connections coming from their IP - they'll only have one - the VPN tunnel carrying the 100's of P2P connections instead, and that will be encrypted and impossible to monitor in itself - add to that that traced connections will ultimately come back to America, not Australia, further hindering law enforcement efforts. Well done Conroy! Are you going to ban VPN's now, because a lot of Australian business rely heavily on it!


27 December 2008, 7:38 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Morsolo (New user):

Just filter the whole goddamn Internet I suppose, that'll protect us.

And don't small children get porn every day with breast feeding? Haha.

28 December 2008, 8:23 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

quantocks (New user):

some of the people commenting are absolutely ridiculous. No wonder there is a mandatory filter coming in, when you can't look after your own children and have less than half a clue about anything it's probably an idea to filter YOUR internet.

The mandatory filter should only be mandatory after you take an intelligence test. If you fail the test, you get the filter. It's only when you can pass and prove your worth that it gets removed.

28 December 2008, 8:33 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

todd_h86 (New user):

Is the internet a right or a privelege.... lol Maybe we should push to pass law to make internet access a right so therefore they cannot put a filter on it as it is violating our right to use it! Im sure it would pass especially as the government is 'supporting' the broadband for all (With the Australian Government Broadband Guarantee" so therefore it would make this new filter invalid! O its nice to dream about things.

29 December 2008, 10:10 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Bry (New user):

Who determines what is illegal? How do they determine what is illegal and legitimate? Is it just a blanket look at extensions? What?

It's one thing to protect kids from predatory individuals, and adult oriented sites, but to do the kind of filtering the government plans perhaps it's not just Kevin's speaking Chinese that he's brought back from China!

29 December 2008, 11:27 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (User):

Quoting Bry:
Is it just a blanket look at extensions?


Well, I guess they could blacklist pirate torrents... But there's billions of them so that would be hard.
They could blacklist torrents containing known filenames, but that would be just as bad.
Or they could whitelist the known legal torrents. Hmmm, there's millions of them too.

I'd say either blanket ban or a small list of current bigname movies.

29 December 2008, 12:17 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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