Linux may lose Windows file system

John Carl Villanueva
06 April 2009, 7:00 PM


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Linux may lose a key Windows file system after a patent lawsuit from Microsoft.


Recently, TomTom and Microsoft reached an out-of-court settlement agreement to end a dispute that started when Microsoft sued TomTom over alleged patent infringement over its aging FAT file system.

The settlement included TomTom agreeing to pay licence fees to Microsoft, and fully remove the controversial code from their navigation system within two years. 

Now, Jim Zemlin, Executive Director of The Linux Foundation, posted his reaction to the settlement.

In his post, Zemlin points out that, "at the heart of this settlement is the FAT filesystem". Reacting to Microsoft's acknowledgment in a press release that the FAT file system "is easily replaced with multiple technology alternatives", Zemlin adds that "The Linux Foundation is here to assist interested parties in the technical coordination of removing the FAT file system from products that make use of it today." and ends his post with, "Maybe it’s time developers go on a diet from Microsoft and get the FAT out of their products." 

This issue has far-reaching effects mainly because of the ubiquity of FAT. USB flash drives; memory cards used by numerous electronic devices including cell phones, MP3 players, video game consoles, and digital cameras; and even other operating systems, Linux being one of them, all support FAT. 

While there are a number of file systems out there, the common ones under Linux being ext3, XFS, JFS, and ReiserFS, and Microsoft even having moved away from FAT to NTFS for Windows a decade ago, FAT still remains the most widely used. This, despite the fact that many of the file systems are far more advanced than FAT, which still traces its origins to the mid 70's. 

Is the Linux Foundation sure this is the direction they wish to take? Could it be that this is the direction Microsoft wanted them to take in the first place -- in the process, making Linux incompatible with a vast array of devices out there?

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Raindog (User):

Pfft who uses FAT or FAT32 anymore, they've become as unnecessary as the Windows OS that ran them.

Incompatibilities? What incompatibilities? Those migrating away from that Microsoft diet will be amazed just how quick a format to a better file system can be.



06 April 2009, 8:59 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Your Average Joe (User):

"Linux may lose a key Windows file system after a patent lawsuit from Microsoft."

LOL !!! The Empire Strikes Back :)
As if Linux doesn't have enough compatibility issues now !

06 April 2009, 9:21 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
As if Linux doesn't have enough compatibility issues now !

what compatibility issues? Linux can read any file system you want to throw at it.

Every time MS throws one of these cheap stunts they alienate another section of users, before long all they will have left, will be the Zombie clicker fan boys.


06 April 2009, 11:15 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Regular user):

I'd happily give up FAT... Except for the staff and students who keep bringing me USB flash disks with FAT filesystems. Usually to recover a Word document that Word won't open (yet Open Office copes with just fine).
My personal opinion is that MS should get off the bloody high horse. They've flogged half the concepts introduced into Windows over the years from other people!

06 April 2009, 10:26 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Tin:
Except for the staff and students who keep bringing me USB flash disks with FAT filesystems.

Just re-format them and show they work fine on anything but Windows. Problem solved. :>


07 April 2009, 12:44 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Aubrey (User):

Quoting Tin:
My personal opinion is that MS should get off the bloody high horse.

Yeah, one minute they go all lovey dovey with the FOSS community and the next they are suing some small company over the "infringement" of 20 year old patent on an old technology.

It really does show up the craziness of a tech patents system that has goes on extending the life of patents well beyond what is "needed" to protect innovation and investment. Companies like MS just become annoying and anti-competitive patent trolls.

The FAT issue will be resolved by Linux quickly - probably by removing support for it from the kernel and doing what we all already do with proprietary codecs - providing modules that can be installed at the user's discretion. A pain - but not a fatal blow even to those who need FAT compatibility.

I'd really like to see the Linux community open their own patent warchest and give one to MS where it hurts - they infringe hundreds of Linux/Solaris/BSD and Unix patents but rely on the closed-source nature of their product and a phalanx of lawyers to protect them.


07 April 2009, 8:10 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Aubrey:
I'd really like to see the Linux community open their own patent warchest and give one to MS where it hurts

I see that as wasted energy, why direct community effort towards fighting a monopoly already crumbling around the edges.

The community should be providing unified support for the individual targeted by these cowardly attacks by the corporates, and should be mounting a public education effort to highlight the tactics of these bullies.

MS are terrified by better code, and by better alternatives. The best way to take the corporates on is keep "rolling out of better code" out as the main game.


07 April 2009, 8:59 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

BrownieBoy (Regular user):

This isn't a problem for Linux, but rather one for makers that use FAT as their default file system, as Tom Tom appears to have done.

Linux doesn't make use of FAT for anything internally. In fact, I'm not even sure it's possible to set up a Linux installation using a FAT drive, is it? I mean, surely none of the Linux file permissions would work.

As for blocking Linux's ability to access other devices that are formatted as FAT, well I'd really like to see Microsoft try! The EU would not sit still for that one, and Microsoft knows it. (Love 'em or hate 'em; the EU are the only ones with the balls to stand up to Microsoft.)





06 April 2009, 10:51 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Aubrey (User):

Quoting BrownieBoy:
Love 'em or hate 'em; the EU are the only ones with the balls to stand up to Microsoft.

True - don't you wish our own regulators would get onto this one. I still can't believe that MS discounting XP licenses for netbooks and imposing a 1Gb limit on RAM isn't dumping and anti-competitive behaviour.


07 April 2009, 8:14 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting BrownieBoy:
In fact, I'm not even sure it's possible to set up a Linux installation using a FAT drive, is it?

It is! (Though why anyone would want to escapes me)
As a guess I'd say the real motivation by MS to legislate Linux away from FAT (or more importantly FAT 32 and NTFS), is to try to stifle Live CD Linux builds, rather than any real concern with Tom-Tom.

Id' hazard a guess that very few of the memory cards used in most of the embedded devices ever move from their locations, auto format would soon solve at least some of the issues.



07 April 2009, 9:09 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Penguin (User):

No FAT filesystems here!

06 April 2009, 11:22 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Ash (New user):

Hmm. I use a FAT32 partition to store my media between Linux and Windows. I don't really want to use NTFS on it, and Windows can't read Ext3, and it seems to do the job (as long as I don't have any > 4 Gib files). What's the problem, honestly? It works nicely and everything reads it.

07 April 2009, 2:57 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Ash:
and Windows can't read Ext3

Try these

http://www.fs-driver.org/
http://www.diskinternals.com/linux-reader/
http://www.howtoforge.com/access-linux-partitions-from-windows

That's the beauty of open source, no onerous restriction to hamper how you work.


07 April 2009, 8:04 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

BrownieBoy (Regular user):

>> I use a FAT32 partition to store my media between Linux
>> and Windows

So do I. At least, I did. I recently reformatted it to NTFS because I had a number of VirtualBox disk images that are larger than 4 Gig.

More fool me. I should have used Ext2 (or 3) and then installed one of the drivers to which Raindog links so that Windows could access the new partition.

I still stick with my original point though: FAT is not an integral part of Linux. Sure, Linux *works* with FAT, but FAT is not a default Linux format, which I think was the problem for TomTom.

A couple of years ago the EU forced Microsoft to disclose information that would allow Samba (amongst others) to work better with Windows servers. I think the EU would look at this situation in much the same way.






08 April 2009, 4:44 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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