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No, this isn't a DirectX 11 screenshot. This is what Microsoft promised us with DirectX 10. No wonder we're sceptical of the new version...

DirectX 11 announced: too much too soon?

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Bennett Ring25 July 2008, 6:00 AM

Considering that the vast majority of users still run DirectX 9, is Microsoft making a Vista-sized mistake with its latest multimedia API?

There’s no stopping the march of technology, even when folks don’t actually want or need advancements, and Microsoft’s DirectX API is a great example. Even though Valve’s recent hardware survey showed that a paltry 9.66% of gamers have a DX10 compatible PC (both Vista and a DX10 compatible graphics card is necessary to make it into this elite club), Microsoft this week officially announced DirectX 11.

At this week’s Gamefest 2008 game technology conference in Seattle, Microsoft first reassured existing DX10 and DX10.1 users that their thousand dollar video cards aren’t about to become dangerous Frisbees. The new version of DirectX is totally compatible with these ancient APIs, unlike the split between DX9 and DX10. While that’s great news for existing DX10 card owners, it’s not so good if you don’t want to upgrade to Vista. There was no mention of Windows XP support, but it’s safe to assume that we’ll probably see an end to global warming before that happens, especially considering DX11 is built on DX10 technology.

Despite the fact that we’re still yet to see significant visual or performance improvements from today’s DX10, Microsoft announced that one of the major features of the API will lead to an “incredible step in the evolution of graphics”. This feature is tessellation, yet it’s not exactly new. ATI has been working with the technique for years, but because it wasn’t a standard part of DirectX, there has been little support for it from game developers.

The second major feature discussed at the event was DX11’s Compute Shader. Neatly stepping past the gobbledegook, this feature is meant to “enable faster and simpler implementations of techniques already in use, such as imaging and post-processing effects”. To us it sounds eerily similar to the performance improvements promised by DX10, which have yet to live up to their bold claims. Other features that were briefly covered include improved multi-core support, as well as using the GPU as a processor for tasks other than just graphics.

No release date for the API was announced, but given the fact that it will likely demand Vista support, we’ve got grave concerns for its adoption by the gaming community. Then again, if this version of DirectX can deliver the kinds of visuals that DX10 promised, it could be a very potent reason for Windows XP owners to upgrade their OS.

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Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Why is it when MS relesases something new, it is a mistake ?
Come on APC, these headlines are just sensationalist to drag more comment onto this dying new forum of yours.
I, as a gamer, welcome any new technology associated with this field.
Statements like .... "There’s no stopping the march of technology, even when folks don’t actually want or need advancements," ..... would have held back development of such things as EVERYTHING technological !
Give credit where credit is due, or at the least that they are constantly looking for new ways to do things better.
As I remember it, people said text based games were great in the early 90's ..... I for one would not like to revisit those days again !
I am glad it is backward compatible with my new Graphics card though :)

25 July 2008, 8:12 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

AndyCee (Advanced member):

In fairness, APC don't always bash new MS - see the last MS article[http://apcmag.com/microsoft_live_mesh_sync_files_between_PCs.htm]

I'm interested in DirectX news as i used to be a gamer (no time now - too much apc/zdnet posting to do) and I'm keeping an eye on technology that may enable upcoming blizzard games to run on my wife's aging laptop. I think it currently runs D9. What does yours?

25 July 2008, 8:38 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

agami (User):

I think they're just call it as they see it. It's not just APC, top tech journalists with many worldwide outlets have been just as critical. It's true, MS are just as capable of producing good products, though the recent trend suggest a loosing streak. Another trend is that PC gaming is dwindling as a direct result of increased console gaming popularity. At the recent E3 the MS event didn't even have a Games for Windows segment.

There are many ways to save gaming on the PC, taking what is essentially DX 10.2 and labeling it 11 is not going to do the trick. Microsoft themselves have had some really cool ideas in the past, my favourite one is having the PC go into console mode when playing a game. Not an easy thing to accomplish but I think it'd be worthwhile.

25 July 2008, 9:44 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting agami:
Another trend is that PC gaming is dwindling as a direct result of increased console gaming popularity.

This API is relevant not just to PC gaming, let's not forget what games are written and tested on.

Quoting agami:
my favourite one is having the PC go into console mode when playing a game.

I'm with you on this one, as a native option not just as an emulator (which are availible now for all the consoles).

Personally, I don't think it will happen because of the staggering rate at which PC hardware is evolving. Just look at how many new graphics cards appera every 3 months or so ! PC hardware and gaming thrive off each other and it seems like they are trying to outdo each other !

25 July 2008, 10:02 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

FostWare (User):

I hope that DX11 integrates the nVidia, AMD/ATI, Cell, and Intel 3D physics processing engines. Physx is almost dead because no-one licensed it or thought it useful enough and AMD and Intel haven't really pushed their platforms hard either.

By creating a standard that would allow these devices to "just work", we may find PPU become more mainstream than they are now. Look what it did for 3D sound - before now, the only 3D audio was Creative and their acquisition targets (Aureal) so it was gimicky more than anything.

I'm still dark at Creative for sinking Aureal. Technically superior, financially vulnerable :(

25 July 2008, 9:48 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Doubt it. It's likely to basically be DirectX 10.11 with a cool new number.
I agree on that though. Physics needs one API so we can get on with seeing it in games without having 16 different implementations around the place.

25 July 2008, 12:27 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

So what new features does DirectX 11 have? Let me guess... It only runs on Vista, thus increasing sales of Vista.

I wish OpenGL was used more. It generally has a better feature list than Direct3D anyway... And really, DirectX has barely changed since 7 for any other feature it has.

Edit: Another game developer wish I have is that more would release the source after a year or so from release. The game's source is useless without the data, so it's not like it's that big a deal. At the very least, they should release the source once the game doesn't sell much anymore.

25 July 2008, 11:02 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting Tin:
Let me guess... It only runs on Vista, thus increasing sales of Vista.

Of course it will !
Win is the majority holder in the pc gaming world .... and it IS MS DirectX !!!

25 July 2008, 12:48 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Look back at the article... Valve's hardware surveys show less than 10% use DirectX 10. That's 2 years on from when Vista started to get into the hands of the hardcore gamers and it's still a negligible penetration.

Windows might be the current platform for gaming, but most users are still running XP because Vista just pisses them off. Apple's now the number 3 vendor of computers too, so there is a change coming.

And to top it off, there's no reason DirectX 10 and 11 couldn't work on Windows XP. If SDL can run on Linux, MacOS, OSX, FreeBSD & various editions of Windows, why can't the people who wrote Windows pull that off?

25 July 2008, 1:25 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting Tin:
why can't the people who wrote Windows pull that off?

Because they don't want to ! ........ It would make poor business sense. MS is a company making money (as is Apple, just look at the iPod plug thread !). I will never understand why this tall poppy syndrome is so prevalent in Oz. If MS was your company with sharholders you have to look after, you would do the exact same thing !

25 July 2008, 2:29 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Tall poppy syndrome? How about looking at the rubbish MS churn out before you say that's what it is. And it's not just in Australia. Complaints about MS products happen everywhere. EU fined them a rediculous amount of money... Was that because they were at the top, or because they broke the law?

As for companies looking after shareholders... A good company looks after the STAKEHOLDERS, not just the shareholders. That includes suppliers, customers and anyone else that in some way benefits from the business.

25 July 2008, 4:55 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting Tin:
A good company looks after the STAKEHOLDERS, not just the shareholders.

Is there such a creature ?

26 July 2008, 1:13 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
Is there such a creature ?

Just in case you completely missed the point, that Tin presented in a concise and well explained manner, here are his words again in bold.

A good company looks after the STAKEHOLDERS, not just the shareholders. That includes suppliers, customers and anyone else that in some way benefits from the business.

A good company with good management has much more to consider than just a healthy return to it's shareholders. Leaving customers feeling short changed is of no benefit to any company or it's shareholders.

By way of example Optus etc are by no means Apple shareholders and yet they have invested considerably in the Australian release of iphone and are therefore just one of many Stakeholders.

So no references to served bovine portions and nothing at all to do with works by Bram Stoker. I trust this has helped ease any confusion you may have had.

26 July 2008, 10:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

For a company that is doing so much wrong MS is sure making a crapload of money ........... And THAT is the bottom line ! ...... for Apple and Optus and every other company out there in the capitalist world. And if you can't understand that, Raindog, then I'm not the only one that is 'confused'

27 July 2008, 8:57 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

Quoting Raindog:
Deliberately crippling your product offerings would surely be a poor long term business decision.

Do you and all the MS naysayers really believe MS does all the things you have pointed out to lose money and customers ?
Do you honestly think you have the marketing nouse to do better ?
If so, then why do you work for wages and not run your own development houses ?
And to you and Tin, don't bother turning up for any executive interviews because your business ethos would only get you hired as janitors !

27 July 2008, 7:07 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
Do you and all the MS naysayers really believe MS does all the things you have pointed out to lose money and customers ?

I see them putting their customers offside, I do no think they realise they are doing it, mostly because they have become stupid enough to ignore their customers.

Quoting Your Average Joe:
Do you honestly think you have the marketing nouse to do better ?

Well yes I do actually!

Quoting Your Average Joe:
If so, then why do you work for wages

well I dont as it happens, other than a wage i pay myself. OK my turn for a question. Why did you just make a stupid assumption?

Quoting Your Average Joe:
and not run your own development houses ?

I do much of my development in house, so I guess that another tick on your wrong assumptions sheet.

Quoting Your Average Joe:
And to you and Tin, don't bother turning up for any executive interviews because your business ethos would only get you hired as janitors !

Do you have even the faintest concept of how silly you make yourself look, by typing this kind of reply? Your big on insult, so how about you let us know how you would change the situation. How would you argue the case for DX11 to a cynical an untrusting marketplace?

29 July 2008, 7:02 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

Quoting Raindog:
Well yes I do actually!

And the web address is ..... so we all can visit the great Raindog at work ? Or as I suspect you're a frustrated coder in the basement of a 2 bit development house earning $35,000 a year ? ...... Please correct me if I'm wrong with some proof, not just more quotations drawn from the book on your desk !

Quoting Raindog:
cynical an untrusting marketplace?

I don't think it's the marketplace that is cynical and untrustworthy !

You really do sound like an angry man ! Time for a valium and chill because it's not all about you Raindog.

29 July 2008, 10:25 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
Please correct me if I'm wrong

Consider yourself corrected. You would think you would be getting used to it by now.
Quoting Your Average Joe:
I don't think

It's clear you dont think before posting. Did you think people would want to read your schoolboy taunts, we would all much prefer to dicuss the topics at hand without the fanboy static?

30 July 2008, 12:26 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting Raindog:
Did you think people would want to read your schoolboy taunts,

You did !

30 July 2008, 9:47 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
You did !

Yet again you mis the point. I may have read your deposit, that does not mean I wanted to read it and it certainly does not imply it added anything od value to a discussion on the relative value of DX11

30 July 2008, 10:12 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

CBR1100XX (Advanced member):

Quoting Raindog:
I may have read your deposit, that does not mean I wanted to read it

Read this sentence again, Raindog and tell us all what you actually mean ?

How could you have read it without wanting to ?

Man ! You are so screwed your reasoning is starting to suffer !

30 July 2008, 11:08 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting CBR1100XX:
Read this sentence again

I have no need to do that.

Quoting CBR1100XX:
Raindog and tell us all what you actually mean ?

It should be obvious even to a intellectual pygmy.

Quoting CBR1100XX:
How could you have read it without wanting to ?

Do you want to read a tax bill, a speeding ticket, even you should be able to comprehend the distinction. try a little harder.

30 July 2008, 11:20 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

CBR1100XX (Advanced member):

I think you need to expand your vocabulary Raindog !
The word you are looking for is "perusal" as distinct from "read"
Hope this helped :)

30 July 2008, 11:26 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting CBR1100XX:
I think you need to expand your vocabulary Raindog !

You can think whatever you wish!

Quoting CBR1100XX:
The word you are looking for is "perusal"

No! There you go making assumptions again. And again you end up getting things wrong.

Quoting CBR1100XX:
"perusal" as distinct from "read"

So you would reword my statement as, "Do you want to perusal a tax bill". Sadly your rework would be far from grammatically correct.

Quoting CBR1100XX:
Hope this helped :)

It help to make you look even more foolish! Was that your aim?

30 July 2008, 7:00 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

CBR1100XX (Advanced member):

Quoting Raindog:
You can think whatever you wish!

Finally ! ... The penny has dropped !

Quoting Raindog:
"Do you want to perusal a tax bill".

Change it to "peruse' in that context ... I assumed you would be educated enough to do that ! ... But you're right, this is another incorrect assumption !

Quoting Raindog:
Was that your aim?

To expand your intellect .... But this going to take some time with a more qualified professional. Actually we'd all be just as happy if you grew a sense of humour !

31 July 2008, 11:13 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
Because they don't want to !

So Vista and DX10 are a flop because MS wanted them to be? That is curious indeed.

Quoting Me In Oz:
It would make poor business sense.

Deliberately crippling your product offerings would surely be a poor long term business decision.

Quoting Me In Oz:
MS is a company making money (as is Apple, just look at the iPod plug thread !).

So you figure Apple will achieve a long term benefit from poor compatability of their products. It might wash with the fan boy market but even the dimmest of consumers can soon catch on to when they are being ripped off.

Quoting Me In Oz:
I will never understand

Clearly!

Quoting Me In Oz:
If MS was your company with sharholders you have to look after, you would do the exact same thing !

So shareholders will take kindly to practices that detriment the perception of a companies product. Short term traders might delight but do you see their funds being there to boost share prices later on in the product cycle.

Quoting Me In Oz:
Why is it when MS relesases something new, it is a mistake ?

You will have wonder why on that one, because MS have not really had a major innovate market release since Win95. Only the most loyal of fan boys could see any of MS's recent offerings as anything but eye candy revised bloatware.

26 July 2008, 9:13 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

gankul (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Tin:
Tin Look back at the article... Valve's hardware surveys show less than 10% use DirectX 10. That's 2 years on from when Vista started to get into the hands of the hardcore gamers and it's still a negligible penetration.

It does not help taht there are not that many games that use direct x 10, and even the ones that do, the benifits are not convincing enough to change.

If games were all starting to be made for only direct x 10, you would see a bigger uptake of vista.

The new intel p45 chipset, and soon x58 will help vistas uptake, due to increasing the ram limitations from 16gb to 24 gig respectivly, as well as 4 gig ram stick lowering in cost. (64 bit vista anyway as 64bit xp does not have much driver support)

25 July 2008, 3:19 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting gankul:
If games were all starting to be made for only direct x 10, you would see a bigger uptake of vista.

It's coming .................

26 July 2008, 1:01 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend