Experts to Microsoft: set your Windows patches free!

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David Flynn09 April 2009, 2:32 AM

There’s a growing call for Microsoft to drop its Windows Genuine Activation process so that every Windows user can keep their PC completely up to date.


WGA (Windows Genuine Activation) should become DOA – Dead On Arrival. That’s the opinion of Brian Livingston, longtime Windows specialist and creator of the best-selling and deep-diving Windows Secrets book series.

Writing for the Windows Secrets Web site, Livingston has slammed Microsoft’s claims that all Windows users can download security updates without the intervention of WGA, which determines if the Windows installation is legit or a cracked or pirated copy.

“It’s ridiculous to say that Microsoft provides all security updates to Windows users, whether or not they pass Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) validation” Livingston rails.

“A system that fails WGA is restricted in using Microsoft’s update and download sites. WGA has a reputation for rating some PCs as unlicensed when in fact they’re completely legitimate. For this reason, many people exit Windows Update at this point and turn off Automatic Updates (if it was enabled) rather than risk disabling their expensive computers.”

Turning off Automatic Updates, of course, leaves the user’s PC vulnerable to the latest round of worms, hacks and exploits.



"Enough is enough" cry the experts who want Microsoft to remove WGA for all Windows and Office updates

Livingstone cites an Ars Technica analysis carried out in January 2007 which reported that “a minimum of five million users worldwide, and probably millions more, have received false ‘nongenuine’ ratings from WGA. As a result, Microsoft has lost many consumers' faith in the auto-update process, because people hear tales that using Windows Update can cripple a PC.”

“I urge Microsoft to immediately start delivering all updates of every kind to users who are running any copy of Windows, whether or not it validates. Pirate profiteers should be thrown in jail, and Microsoft has a right to prosecute them. But our legitimate computers are the ones that unpatched users' computers attack. Microsoft has no excuse for not updating every system.”

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes, writing on ZDNet’s Hardware 2.0 blog, has taken up the cause.

Kingsley-Hughes points out that while Microsoft offers all security updates, service packs and other critical reliability updates for Windows XP and Windows Vista without WGA authentification, by virtue of putting them into the ‘Critical’, ‘Important’ and ‘High Priority’ categories that are WGA-free, you still need to ‘validate’ your copy of Windows and thus get a tick of approval from the WGA process on your first visit to the Windows Update and Microsoft Update sites.

Another issue is the stringent policy applied by Microsoft’s free Windows Defender tool. Kingsley-Hughes cites that according to the Windows Defender Web page, ‘only genuine Windows customers can receive product downloads... Windows Defender will validate that your copy of Windows is genuine before installation. Furthermore, Windows Defender will only remove Severe threats for machines that are not genuine. Low, Medium and High threats will be detected, but not removed unless your copy of Windows is genuine.’

Take into account the many times that WGA seems to kick in unexpectedly and require re-activation, sometimes turning a legitimate Windows installation into one of questionable origin, and Kingsley-Hughes says that “enough is enough.”

“It’s now time for Microsoft to disconnect WGA from all Windows-related updates. The same goes from Office Genuine Advantage and updates for Microsoft Office. The current situation doesn’t make good sense. I don’t have a problem with Microsoft demanding that users wanting additional content have to go through a validation process, but ALL updates should be available to ALL users, irrespective of whether users are running a genuine copy of Windows or not.“

“Users who have unwittingly been sold a counterfeit copy of Windows shouldn’t be penalised and have their security compromised. In fact, when it comes to security updates, even those who know they are running a pirated copy of Windows should get access to all updates. It’s in everyone’s best interests that as many machines as possible are patched.”



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Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Some points from my view on the topic:
* I've had genuine Volume Licensed boxes come up as non-genuine.
* The downloadable validator EXE comes up genuine when running under WINE.
* Pirated software needs to be kept secure too, because their insecurities later effect valid users by way of spam, botnets, etc.

I agree with WGA being pointless. It doesn't work.

09 April 2009, 9:19 AM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

agami (User):

I agree. Down with WGA.

09 April 2009, 9:29 AM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

SLi (Regular user):

“A system that fails WGA is restricted in using Microsoft’s update and download sites. WGA has a reputation for rating some PCs as unlicensed when in fact they’re completely legitimate. For this reason, many people exit Windows Update at this point and turn off Automatic Updates (if it was enabled) rather than risk disabling their expensive computers.” - APC

There is no case for WGA, it should have been wiped off the board on day 1.

Well-Written article D. Flynn.



09 April 2009, 10:12 AM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

if there are 5 million PCs out there reporting false WGA status as a guess there would be 50 million non genuine copies of Windows running.

I can fully understand Microsoft's piracy concerns, but their brute force WGA efforts have proven to be just plain dumb. The more sophisticated pirates have circumvented it, while many of the clicker variety fall into categories where their PC are not being security patched. It's botnet city and it's a policy likely to attract widespread use of unknown wares downloads of the OS.


The WGA approach has been tried and has mostly failed dismally. I'm still at a loss to understand why retail versions of any Windows OS are priced so far above the cost of bundled OEM versions. It is this price gouging and a failures of WGA on legitimate installations that encourage many users to consider pirated and hacked versions.

WGA is probably the greatest contributor towards the current levels of malware and spam doing the rounds. Time for a re-think Microsoft.


09 April 2009, 11:09 AM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

TV Bis (User):

I would like to know the reason why genuine copies of windows fail this test in the first place. Fix this problem and then see if WGA is still a valid worthwhile function.

09 April 2009, 11:45 AM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Big Baboo (Senior member):

Yea :( I don't know. Windows Validation doesn't seem to work for me and I'm still using the certified copy of WinXP that I got when I updated from Win98SP but all the updates seem to download ok except when I go to the Windows site and try to do any manually.Then it asks me to validate which I do and it fails miserably :( Any suggestions on this ?

09 April 2009, 11:58 AM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Michael J (Cornerstone member):

i love and support piracy!!! down with WGA!!!!!!

09 April 2009, 12:52 PM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Halcon (Advanced member):

For too long, Microsoft have abused of its position as software maker to become judge, jury and executioner to its user base.
This is outrageously a lack of respect to the users of its products, with the facade of running a process to know if every copy of Windows is "Genuine" Microsoft has been spying the contents of every computer user.
Every time I went to get updates for my system, I get the annoying message to "validate", this has become the last straw I got just to get the needed updates, I have paid a lot of money to get my system with the damned OS.
its time to ditch out that stupid scheme or else!!!!

09 April 2009, 12:59 PM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

K (User):

I've been using a *cough* liberated *cough* copy of Windows XP via BitTorrent for over 4 years. WGA is installed and everything updates perfectly. Just goes to show how useless WGA is.

09 April 2009, 1:59 PM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Big Baboo (Senior member):

Quoting K:
I've been using a *cough* liberated *cough* copy of Windows XP via BitTorrent for over 4 years. WGA is installed and everything updates perfectly. Just goes to show how useless WGA is.

Where did you get it from "K" I'm just about to completely rebuild my computer and I know WGA is going to spit the dummy when it comes to "Activation" because just about nothing original will be left in the box ?




11 April 2009, 9:19 AM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

sandra_madness (New user):

I might be in the minority on this forum but I am all for WGA, sure it has its failures, but why should non-genuine copies get updates? Why should shonky PC builders get away with supplyng non-genuine software. Customers should be enlightend to the dodgy techies out there and if there software is not legit go back to the builder, get their money back, buy genuine and tell all there friends not to deal with them. Who knows what nasties may be included in the fake copy as well.

09 April 2009, 7:50 PM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting sandra_madness:
but why should non-genuine copies get updates?

For the security and sanity of everyone who DID buy a genuine copy... That's why. Botnets are mostly running on boxes where people figured they didn't need updates anyway.

Quoting sandra_madness:
Why should shonky PC builders get away with supplyng non-genuine software.

They shouldn't. But by the same token, why should genuine copies get flagged as non-genuine for no apparent reason? Why should genuine business people be accused of selling pirate software because MS cocked up an algorithm?

09 April 2009, 8:37 PM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

sandra_madness (New user):

I get your first point and this hence makes WGA useless, maybe there is a another solution, allow updates to non genuine, but disable features in the software, or lock it alltogether.
Second point, I can live with WGA, i have had a number of clients in this situation and due to minor hardware repairs or driver updates they have been flagged, but I have not had one that has been a major problem. I think better to be safe than sorry.

10 April 2009, 4:27 PM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Halcon (Advanced member):

Quoting sandra_madness:
I am all for WGA

You are misguided, WGA does absolutely nothing, this is an spyware in disguise to transmit Microsoft information about the contents of every computer.

Quoting sandra_madness:
why should non-genuine copies get updates?


The real problem is Microsoft fault, most people can't afford to buy "legitimate" software because is expensive, preferring to take risks because the economic constrains are more prevalent than bothering of anything else.

Quoting sandra_madness:
Why should shonky PC builders get away with supplyng non-genuine software


These scrupulous scum-bags try to dupe unwary people and then disappear from the scene, this is a job for Fair Trading to get rid off these parasites.

Unfortunately, some people goes to buy a computer system, the seller convince the buyer there is a good deal too good to refuse and the buyer ends up buying a dodgy equipment with or without installed software, this practice is made by many asian sellers.
Back, to our topic, WGA should be abolished altogether for being an illegal practice.
Legitimate users should not tolerate this nuisance by all means.

09 April 2009, 8:45 PM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

sandra_madness (New user):

I disagree with the second point, most licenses are sold OEM and compared to the cost of the system, OEM XP Home adds maybe $100 - $120.
I believe for what you get $100.00 is not much and it provides some level of confidence in the integerity of the system. For all the programs, utilities, tools and resources provided in a copy of MS WINDOWS the price is more than fair. If people have cost contraints then use a Linux Distro, sure there may be learning curve but it more than likely will be benificial long term. I totally disagree that it is MS fault. It is cheating, cheap arse people at fault.

10 April 2009, 4:36 PM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Halcon (Advanced member):

Quoting sandra_madness:
I disagree with the second point, most licenses are sold OEM

Wrong, the cost for the OEM licence falls into 2 areas Home and Professional, the first one has few features and the later provides security and more stability. the price tag would be around $230 or even more for the professional version and a little less for the home version.
Those who are not lucky enough to have either versions are forced to spend more for the full version, this price would be around $400, this does not sound a good value.

Quoting sandra_madness:
If people have cost contraints then use a Linux Distro


Sure, that is if people are willing to go that way, many hate linux because is not in the same level as the Windows Operating system.
So you see, this makes up 90% of the total user base around the world, this is where Microsoft is abusing of its position.
As no one can match it with a better offering, Windows is the indisputable OS of preference, followed by the other tiny alternatives.
The Linux movement is making an heroic effort to overtake Microsoft Windows, this will take many years away.
As I said Microsoft WGA is a total disgrace, the sooner it vanishes the better.

10 April 2009, 10:18 PM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

MiCCAS (Frequent poster):

Funny how you use a number generated over 2 years ago to back up the claim that WGA sucks - it's not perfect, but it's certainly a lot better than it was back then.

10 April 2009, 9:12 AM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

jake (User):

i have had problems installing xp sp2 on my old xp box as it came up as not genuine. it told me to i thing install xp sp1 but that didnt work either

10 April 2009, 11:34 AM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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