Firefox designer slams ‘pick your browser’ option in Windows 7

David Flynn
18 October 2009, 5:22 PM


Microsoft’s ‘browser ballot’ for European editions of Windows 7 ranks Safari and Chrome before Firefox on the menu. Apple and Google seem happy, but not Mozilla...


Install a European copy of Windows 7, Vista or even XP in the near future and instead of Internet Explorer automatically installing, you could choose from up to a dozen browsers listed on a menu.

Good news for consumer choice, open competition and the anti-monopoly crowd? You’d think so. Especially given that Microsoft’s own browser doesn’t even get the first slot on the menu – that potential ‘donkey vote’ goes to Apple’s Safari, of all things.

In response to the EU’s push against the bundling of Internet Explorer with Windows operating system, Microsoft opted to load the installer file for a range of browsers into the bare OS image and then allow users to select which browser (or browsers) to install from a simple menu called a ‘browser ballot’.

Microsoft’s proposed system ranks the five leading browsers according to alphabetic order of the vendor or parent company: so Apple’s Safari gets pole position followed by Google’s Chrome, Microsoft’s Internet Explorer, Mozilla’s Firefox and, err, Opera’s Opera.



Sounds fair? Not fair enough, according to Firefox designer Jenny Boriss.

Sounding off on her blog – with the caveat that this is her personal opinion “and doesn’t reflect Mozilla’s official position or any formal statement from Mozilla” – Boriss slams the layout because it doesn’t take into account Firefox’s market share.

“A ballot is simply not a good way to create more ‘user choice’ on the Web”, Boriss argues. “While literally giving users a choice, the ballot is unlikely to let users make an informed choice.”

Boriss claims that the current ordering of browsers “is about the worst option possible, both for user choice and the Web as a whole. Windows users presented with the current design will tend to make only two choices: IE because they are familiar with it, or Safari because it is the first item.”

“Users selecting the IE logo because it is the image they associate with using the internet isn’t too surprising. After all, many users do not know or care that other browser are available. But the disproportionate advantage to Safari is what really makes this design poor.”

Boriss’s suggested alternatives include randomising the browse orders for each Windows installation, and ranking browsers according to “order of market share, excluding Internet Explorer” – which would see the first five listed as Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari and then Internet Explorer.


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Douglas (New user):

What a load of rubbish. Firefox can't be "the" browser. Boohoo. They might have to share. How will the world cope?

Perhaps this Jenny Boriss person needs a reality check. If people see Firefox and know what it is (most people do, funnily enough), they will probably choose it... oh goodness! What a revelation. Opera aren't complaining and they're last, for goodness sake!

18 October 2009, 6:19 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

tombo (New user):

Mozilla shouldn't really worry, believe it or not most users will make an informed choice on their browser. People are not drones and have often gone out of their way to install Firefox hence their existing market share.

18 October 2009, 6:41 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

martyfmelb (New user):

lol... something tells me they picked the positioning first (IE in the middle - why of course!), and described it as 'alphabetical ordering by vendor' after they realised the pleasant coincidence :)

18 October 2009, 6:49 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Penguin (User):

Quoting David Flynn:

Install a European copy of Windows 7, Vista or even XP in the near future and instead of Internet Explorer automatically installing, you could choose from up to a dozen browsers listed on a menu.

So how do you pick the browser you want if there is no browser installed to use the internet with?


18 October 2009, 7:20 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dazweeja (New user):

Um, using the app shown in the post that downloads (via FTP presumably) and installs the browser of the user's choice...

19 October 2009, 10:19 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tony23 (New user):

This is one of the dumbest things ever foisted on Microsoft. The user has been able to download and use whatever browser they wish. Sure MS has an advantage because they make the OS. So??? Firefox, the best alternative is provided free. If users want to keep popping their ignorance pills and use IE, then that's their problem. Firefox is waaaay better based on: functionality, security and add-ons. I wouldn't be caught dead using IE, no matter how it is presented. The weirdest thing is that business keep using the product - I have no idea why..laziness I suspect.

18 October 2009, 7:32 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

AnthonyBrisbane (User):

Quoting Tony23:
This is one of the dumbest things ever foisted on Microsoft.


Yet the EU say nothing about Apple and their inclusion of Safari and their media player with Mac OS

18 October 2009, 7:51 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

apt.pupil (User):

Quoting Tony23:
The weirdest thing is that business keep using the product - I have no idea why..laziness I suspect.

because businesses often use software that can only be launched through Internet Explorer.
at work(where i am now)- i have to suffer through IE6 for anything work related.



19 October 2009, 10:12 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

petert (Cornerstone member):

I would have thought it more reasonable to have the various browser options display in a random order.

Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see if the stated order makes any difference in the long term.

18 October 2009, 9:25 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

todd_h86 (User):

Why do they care so much? I mean browsers are FREE, no company makes money from people installing browsers. Firefox is NUMBER 2 anyways without being installed from scratch. I think the making it a random selection will just confuse people more than anything, which will result in more tech support calls and more people criticising Windows. In the first draft that was submitted IE was 1st in the line not in the middle. This is just a stupid decision by the EU, why should a manufacturer have to include competitor's products with theirs? Why don't Coke have to give you a bottle of Pepsi in every carton of Coke? Cause its STUPID.

18 October 2009, 9:36 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

e1 (New user):

sorry for the double post

19 October 2009, 12:28 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

e1 (New user):

It's a Derren Brown moment. Look, designers and professional magicians all know how to use color, patter, and misdirection to force seemingly free choices. This is the whole point of UX - to subtly guide users so that it feels "intuitive." Ms. Firefox should know this.

Many branding studies show users instinctively "choose" brand logos they've seen before, the ones most familiar. This would tend to favor Google and IE. This is why MS likes this design! IE is right in the center, with its familiar logo. The well-known Apple logo is missing - the less familiar Safari icon is displayed. Most people recognize the Apple logo, not the Safari!

So this design actually disfavors Safari, not favors it, although the alphabetical ordering seems logically "fair." The whole design is cleverly slanted toward IE.

However, MS should ensure that the install process is stress-free - a new study suggests that in moments of stress people may be actually more open to new brand choices: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_90305.html. The study is seeming about food, but look at it from a branding perspective and you'll immediately see how it could also apply here.

19 October 2009, 1:04 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

AnthonyBrisbane (User):

Quoting e1:
This is why MS likes this design! IE is right in the center, with its familiar logo.

MS actually don't like the design. In their submission to the EU, IE was first on the ballot. But the EU opposed that. Also others have mentioned noobs being familiar with the IE logo. No they won't. IE is only used in computing. Computer illiterate people will know know what the IE logo looks like. This ballot vote is blatantly biased towards Apple. The EU would know that; they also avoid issueing Apple the same demands that they do to Microsoft.


19 October 2009, 7:05 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

andor9x (New user):

there's nothing "unfair" about the browser ballot screen, just because it's alphabetical and Firefox falls behind IE in the ordering

plus if their are any inexperienced Windows users (/noobs to some) then the first thing their going to go for is either IE or FIrefox since a day does not go by without those two names being mentioned

so whatever this Mozilla lady thinks is unfair is stupid, in Europe alot of people are happy that Windows 7 europe is getting a browser in the first place

19 October 2009, 1:56 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dazweeja (New user):

Seriously, when you look at that screen does it look alphabetical to you? Why would MS choose to make it alphabetical based on the company name instead of the name of the actual browser? Oh, maybe because then Firefox would appear second (before IE).

19 October 2009, 10:17 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

AnthonyQLD (New user):

Quoting Dazweeja:
Why would MS choose to make it alphabetical based on the company name instead of the name of the actual browser?

Because the EU told them to. Microsoft had a different order which the EU rejected and said they needed to order the browsers in alphabetical order by vendor.



19 October 2009, 3:15 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dazweeja (New user):

Where is your evidence that Microsoft didn't propose this order after their first try was rejected? All the Microsoft statement says is that "Microsoft agreed with the Commission to make approximately 20 substantive changes to our proposals". Are you suggesting that there wasn't a negotiation process and Microsoft just accepted the EU's directives?

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/oct09/10-07statement.mspx

19 October 2009, 3:44 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Aubrey (New user):

I really doubt that the "donkey vote" will be all that high. And this does at least introduce the concept of choice. I hope we get some stats about the outcome (I love stats! So much more comforting than journo's musings or internet memes).

Maybe the Europeans should force Apple and Linux distros to have a similar chooser.

And the Good People at Google should be way pleased to be on the page at all given their browser is so new.

19 October 2009, 6:53 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dazweeja (New user):

They're not forcing Apple and Linux distros to have a similar chooser because they are only concerned with monopoly behaviour, they don't care about the small fish. Maybe you'd like to live in a world where MS dictates the internet but I don't.

19 October 2009, 10:22 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Aubrey (New user):

Quoting Dazweeja:
Maybe you'd like to live in a world where MS dictates the internet but I don't.

Have MS found the internet? Better late than never, I suppose. Perhaps they and Rupert Murdoch should divide it up between them before word gets out and people start using it without paying.



19 October 2009, 2:17 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

AndyCee (User):

You'd think Mozilla would be happy to get free advertising on every Windows machine. Oh well, boo hoo.

19 October 2009, 7:41 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Big Baboo (User):

Damned if I'd ever try to use Opera again :( I remember trying it about five years ago and the first time it opened,about fifty windows popped up and I almost ran out of the room screaming.Hopefully,I'm a bit less of a geek now and possibly in a year or so I'll lose Windows permanently.

19 October 2009, 9:29 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Fornax (User):

I bet MS spent alot of money doing market research as to what location on the screen would get them the best result. Firefox should be happy with the result because they are very close to the best location which is centre of screen.

19 October 2009, 10:02 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

AnthonyQLD (New user):

Quoting Fornax:
bet MS spent alot of money doing market research as to what location on the screen would get them the best result. Firefox should be happy with the result because they are very close to the best location which is centre of screen.

No they didn't. The EU told them to order the top 5 alphabetically based on vendor. MS were 1st on the order they submitted to the EU (forget the formula Microsoft used). The EU rejected it.

19 October 2009, 3:19 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

K (User):

Did they check out what heppens when you select another language? Some languages are read from right to left, in which case Opera has the 'unfair advantage'!

19 October 2009, 10:05 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

apt.pupil (User):

oh boohoo Boriss.

just because your memory hog of an interwebz browser is not in the number 1 slot, doesn't mean that Microsoft's choice is misleading.

*sigh* if only Mozilla didn't kill off my all- time favorite browser- Netscape. Towards the end of their days- even though the were not allowed to use the updated mozilla engine, it was a very powerful and secure browser. i do not remember any issues at all with netscape.

though i must say that the chrome browser i am now using is becoming more and more of a memory hog for some reason. when i first installed the win7 beta, my chrome would only spike my RAM useage up to 37%. now i have RC1 and my usegae for running 2 tabs with chrome spikes up to 78%.

i have 4GB DDR2 1080MHz kingston RAm by the way, so it shouldn't have spike that much. but then again, idle useage is up to 22% from 12% too.

i think it may be time for me to sort out startup programs and system utilities.

19 October 2009, 10:10 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

TV Bis (New user):

For goodness sakes people - wake up! Who really gives a rats about where your browser sits. It seems that everyone is becoming too pedantic about stupid computer software. It's all becoming boring and really stupid in the way people are behaving in regards to who has the better software.

The quote from Todd_H86 says it all "Why doesn’t Coke have to give you a bottle of Pepsi in every carton of Coke?"
Well? Any answers anybody?
Everyone really needs to take a reality check and break away from their stupid little machines.
And yes before you give your two cents worth "Rain Pet" I would load IE even if I had to go out and buy it separately. My choice and if you cannot handle it then stiff cheddar…………

19 October 2009, 10:28 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting TV Bis:
And yes before you give your two cents worth "Rain Pet"

Your answer to tirades of ranting is your own tirade of ranting? Curious indeed!

I have no idea (nor any concern) why you should single out my good self, particulary given its a subject I could not care less about, and one I had not offered a position on. I guess that's just one of the many issues you need deal with.

Oh and just a hint, attempts to mangle someone else's user name may seem like a clever and cutting barb to you, but it has no effect on me, and simply results in making your posts look like the work of a infantile school boy. :>

By the way if you still see fit to pay for a free MS browser, you could make a cheque out to Raindog for $100 per copy. You can send these cheques to Raindog c/o APC, I am sure the operators of this site will inform me upon arival of any such cheque.

19 October 2009, 11:32 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Ausman (New user):

I think this is about creating some (small) level of competition by the EU to address the dodgy tactics MS used to get it's OS in the dominant position it is. Regardless I doubt most workplaces using Windows as standard would have the guts to install something like Firefox instead of IE so it's probably more about raising awareness at the consumer market level.

22 October 2009, 1:06 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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