First look at Fedora Core 7: installer problems abound

drewhiggins2:

What about for those of us who haven't got it? Can you get it on the next cover disc?

Stimpy:

Not to be a TA but they dropped the Core tag, it's just Fedora 7. :)

SamArthurAllen:

Ubuntu Gutsy has already started to show improvements over Feisty. Now don't get me wrong here, but Fedora core is one of the highest rated and one of few distros I would recommend (along with Xandros and Ubuntu).

Installation, it seems, is one of the biggest jobs for GNU/Linux projects now. Feisty keeps insisting that one of the PCs running here has Serial ATA, although it's only IDE. I like the acronym PITA, so what does SATA stand for?

snowman:

One the the first things I do after installing a new Linux distro is edit /etc/sudoers (via 'sudo visudo' of course) and add a line like this:
Defaults:snowman !tty_tickets,timestamp_timeout=240

!tty_tickets means you don't have to authenticate on a per-tty basis.
timestamp_timeout means you won't be asked for your password again for 240 minutes.

webmonkey44:

that's a STUPID bug!

sandra_madness:

Just goes to prove all you linux nuts are well...nuts. How is linux ever going to gain real momentum over Windows and Mac if just getting the install disk recognised is such a drama. For my time and money buying an OEM copy of Windows XP ($120.00-$140.00) is a cinch. No stuffing around, install, update and install Security Suite and you are off and running. I know I am going to get attacked but I wish all the distro's, all the linux nuts would get together and rationalise the OS, make it work out of the box and give us all a real viable alternative. Rather than just hooting and hollering about how great they are and how MS users are stupid.

Al Nonymous:

sandra_madness: I've spent over two weeks trying to get a retail copy of Windows XP installed on some machines (*cough*Sony*cough*). The installation is easy with the OEM version, as the vendor of the specific machine has already included all the needed drivers and made all the necessary tweaks for XP to run properly on that particular model. Without that disk (mine was damaged) a Windows installation can be a nightmare that makes a Linux installation seem easy. For example, you don't have the "network install" option with a retail copy of Windows, if it doesn't like your CD drive. I don't recommend any new user perform an install of Linux, any more than I recommend they install Windows. Just buy a machine with a pre-install. Dell, System76, and dozens of other vendors sell machines with Linux pre-installed.

SamArthurAllen:

Us? Attack you? Nooooooooooo, not all of us are like that.

I'm actually in for OS diversity - I don't want every computer to run GNU/Linux, just _most_ of them. The rest can run whatever they want.

GNU/Linux worked for me where Windows didn't, and I've even passed it on to my dad who is surprised at how many devices work as soon as they're plugged in to the system. The CDs that come with digital cameras and multifunctional printers can be used as coffee coasters. Now that's what I call plug-and-play.

So to me, GNU/Linux _is_ a viable alternative. I am aware that not every computer can run it comfortably, and very few can run it with 100% functionality, mainly due to driver restrictions, but that's changing -- and faster than what most people notice, right Ashton?

--Sam

guest:

You have to wonder why windoze trolls like sarah madness have nothing better to do than hang out on linux related forums and spew nonsense, lol.

zenarcher:

It's what they do for entertainment, when they are taking a break from removing spyware and Trojans from their computers. *LOL*

sandra_madness:

Actually, I dont "hang out", I have APC as my primary feed and i want to hear whats going on and that includes alternatives for the mum and dad user, which I fear does not get met by linux...Yet.
Believe you me I want change for the mum and dad user and change to increase options for the home buiness market but this change needs to be smooth while not impacting on productivity and user experience. I get this with mainstream windows/pcs and macs...oops does that mean I am a Mac Troll too?

zenarcher:

That's the usual old spin one hears about Linux...that it's not ready for "mum and dad." A couple of years ago that may have been true....but with most modern distributions, that is not the case today. I don't have a single piece of hardware that doesn't work with Linux...that isn't installed straightaway, during the Linux install process. That includes multi-function printers, LCD displays, video cards, multi-function card readers and so forth.

As for the "mum and dad," I'm a great grandparent, so I think I fit the description quite well and have been using Linux for only two years.

Most "mum and dad" users want to send email and surf the web. Most people in that category I've switched over, I've already switched them over to Firefox, OpenOffice and other basic applications, so there's really nothing new for them to learn in a hurry. Plug in a digital camera and it's immediately recognized. Updates, adding and removing applications are as simple as clicking in YAST, SMART, KYum or similar graphic installers.

The "not ready for mum and dad" argument is outdated.

sandra_madness:

Did you read the article above? If Ashton had problems you cant tell me its going to be sweet as pie for "mum and dad". And how often can "mum and dad" walk through a popular retailer and buy a new version of any distro? NO...linux is not mature enough yet. I am a dad and I can install and easily manage WIndows Server, that does not mean the majority of Dads can do the same.

Warder:

Something i think you all are missing is that its still in pre-release. They allow us to run the betas and alphas so we can report on these bugs so they can fix them. M$ does this with their MSDN subscribers, and im sure Apple does the same for Mac.

Its. Not. Finished. Thats my summary.

zenarcher:

As someone who started using MS with DOS 5.0 and ending with Windows XP, two years ago, I can tell you my reasons.

First off, I did an install of Fedora 7 on the day it was released (after downloading the DVD .iso) and a five year old kid could have installed it. Not one single problem as mentioned in this article.

Likewise, I run SUSE 10.2 on three other computers here, including a laptop. A five year old kid could have installed it, once again. No problems, whatsoever.

Now and again, I have to install Windows for a customer, which is really quite rare for me, anymore....and I can tell you...not doing installs all the time, it's more difficult for me that Linux.

Then, after installing Windows, it's not "off and running." Now, I can hunt all over the web for motherboard drivers. Then, I can hunt all over the web for free photo, anti-virus, spyware detectors and removers, and a dozen other applications, or I can tell the person to go buy the software. I can tell them to go dump a bunch of money for MS Office, or I can download OpenOffice for free and do everything I can with MS Office.

Then, I can sit down and try to teach them how to defrag the hard drive, do anti-virus definition updates, spyware program updates and on and on, which they won't do. Then, I can charge them to reinstall Windows a few months later, when they show up with a computer which will barely crawl, loaded down with a ton of spyware.

With Fedora or SUSE, or literally any other major distro of Linux, I can merely add a couple of extra software repositories and give the person choices for a few thousand applications, games and so on, which they can add or remove with a couple of clicks of the mouse. Same with updates....everything can be updated all from the same place. No chasing around websites looking for updates, or buying updated versions of software.

Oh yeah....and I've yet to have one single case of spyware or viruses on the Linux systems. They are stable and just run. The only time I've had to do a reboot is for a kernel update, video driver update or following a power failure.

So, there are a few reasons that "Linux nuts" run Linux. I gave the Microsoft software I had away to people I knew who run MS and have never looked back. Not a piece of MS anything on any of my systems...and everything just works!

KevinVerma:

I really liked reading your feedback blog/review. This is very balanced and compliments where it should.
(Regrets for my lossy typing, i am responding from my mobile device)

+ i hope you noticed its just 'fedora' 7, every thing is core since extras got merged.

+ sorry to notice your install problem, please do discuss more on fedora-list@redhat.com and report on bugzilla.redhat.com as required. I am hopeful that you will get best help.

+ seems sudo is not the best aproach right now. Policykit is better, underwork and target for Fedora8 check on fedoraproject.org/wiki

+ F7 was to promt you for third party codecs, seems that was finally pushed to F8 release target instead, seems you'll have to wait till christmas

overall nice review will love to read more from you, please also add your value to fedoraproject.org.

Thanks,

Nivag:

7.3 is currently under development, and is scheduled to be released in August 2007

Is F7 is using a pre-release?

Confused:

I worked for a major Enterprise Software manufacturer, in their Japan office, and I was responsible for, among many other things, maintaining the internal computer resources to support the Japanese operations. We had products that ran on several flavors of Unix (including Solaris), Linux and Windows. While our Japanese staff only knew anything about Windows that was the only platform they could work under. So I happily installed FC1, FC2, FC3, RH Ent. 2, RH Ent. 3, Solaris (several version) and HP UX... Now I did this for 2 reasons, 1 - so I could maintain privacy... non of them could figure out how find my data even if they tried... 2 - So I could support all the non-Windows ports of our applications...

Knowing *nix, and I am NO guru, made me very valuable to the company, it is not about hate Windows, just about being more well rounded...

Now, we bought Dell Laptops, and the idiot who ordered them bought XP Home, which is useless for a business such as ours... BUT he figured, since we had bulk license to MS XP Pro and Windows 2003 Server, etc. via MSDN, we could just upgrade the machines when they came... Well, drivers became a serious issue... We had to track down the drivers ourselves, no easy find it tool, windows update doesn't help... Dell tools didn't help much due either... So we spent hours finding all the drivers and had to create file shares to store drivers for each individual configuration of laptop we had... D600, D610, D620, 5000, 5100, 5200, M60, etc...

SO before people start barking about the trouble with Linux and tracking down drivers, and touting that as a reason Windows is better, they should know what they are talking about... Just as was mentioned above, OEM disk installs work because the vendor has provided the drivers as part of a custom installation routine... If you go outside the OEM setup, you are ON YOUR OWN... At least Linux distros are taking a proactive stance and attempting to provide features to track it down for you... Windows still needs help with plugins and codex for audio and video formats, as does Linux, so where's the overwhelming convenience of Winduhs over Linux...?
I have several Machines which will run Linux which won't run any Windows version newer than Windows 98... Why throw out old WORKING hardware just because the OS no longer works...

And speaking of which, it is NOT a coincidence that MS issues an "update" that checks whether you have a legal copy but the update is optional, then releases an "update" - as a "non-removable-security-fix" that BREAKS the windows installer... then has a "new" fix for that out the next day... BUT the fix "REQUIRES" the optional update to confirm you are legal before you can download the fix...!!! Can you say Federal Law Violation - intentionally damaging my PC and/or its software in order to force me to verify my legal use of their software... The Justice Dept. should look into "how" they are using the Windows Update to invade the privacy of users and to "attack" the users systems... This is why, as a product version nears the "end of life" it suddenly starts to crash more and more... they WANT it to... they FORCE it to... Now I sound like a conspiracy theorist, I don't think I am, but some patterns of behavior just scream out you...

SamArthurAllen:

Consiracy theory... no........ I wouldn't suspect that.

As if large and reliable companies such as SONY would do similar things like install software on your computer like rootkits with us even knowing it. They're a reputable brand, so people should trust them.

$sarcasm = true;
?>

SamArthurAllen:

(By the way, I was being sarcastic.)

Mimenta:

While you all debate the in and outs of one version of Linux and the technicalities of Windows form the Mum and Dads users it's very simple:

In a house with 3 teenagers and 4 computers, on a limited budget, what version of Windows can I buy that will give me ONE OS per computer and end up with an OS AND a full Office Suite on every computer?

If I have to fiddle a little to save over $3000 I can live with that.

Fungyo:

Read a lot of recent comments from people that sound like they must have used Linux about 2 years ago or someone told them Linux has a lot of issues.
As with Windows, Linux has it's share of problems, what I have found is Linux is moving ahead much quicker than Windows in regards to functionality, stability, security and user friendliness. Do you know anyone who hasn't had issues with Windows?
Microsoft are so caught up in forcing activation and regular validation checks that they're inheriting all kinds of problems into their software. Microsoft have lost touch and no longer appear to respect their customers (DRM hmmm...).
Linux is the future and is so easy most of the time and will ultimately get better as more people use it, Windows on the other hand looks to be going down hill.
Microsoft appear to prefer trying to shut out the competition using dodgy business practices, rather than offering innovative products.

Forget what has been said about Linux or is being said about it, just download a Linux distro and give it ago. If one doesn't work for you, try another distro, if that one doesn't work, wait a few months for the next release and have another go.
One thing to remember is Linux is not MS Windows, so don't expect it to function like Windows. H3ll if Linux functioned like Windows i'd be fully pi55ed at it by now.

For big budget pc games there is Windows, for everything else there is Linux.