Google targets ISPs: is there a dark side?

Angus Kidman19 May 2007, 9:34 PM

Google's plan to offer co-branded Gmail to ISPs might sound like a good idea, but is there a ... dark hand ... at work here? Could Google be the ... next Microsoft? (Yes, we're hamming it up a bit.)


All your ISP email belong to Google: but will it be good for all humankind?All your ISP email belong to Google: but will it be good for all humankind?
Pretty much every Internet service provider on the planet offers email as part of their package, but that doesn't mean they do a particularly good job of it.

OK, the majority don't suffer embarrassing outages like Australian ISP BigPond's infamous email meltdown in October 2003 , but limited download speeds, variable quality web mail interfaces, tiny online storage quotas and the tie-in effect of choosing an email address linked to a specific provider mean that using an ISP-provided email service often winds up looking like a pretty poor choice.

That's especially the case with providers that only offer a limited number of email accounts for each customer (such as the single inboxes offered by BigPond or Unwired, for example, on their cheapest plans).

Search giant Google is hoping to change that attitude with the latest expansion to its Google Apps software platform, designed specifically to attract ISPs and other Internet businesses.

In a characteristically Google-esque move, Google announced the new program in a posting on its blog. "This new version, which we're calling the Partner Edition, makes it easy for large and small service providers to offer your subscribers the latest versions of powerful tools, like Gmail, Google Calendar, and Google Docs & Spreadsheets, without having to worry about hosting, updating, or maintaining any of the services yourself," product manager Hunter Middleton wrote.

The slick Gmail interface and multi-gigabyte inbox limit might seem might good selling points for an ISP-branded Gmail service, but Google's fundamental selling point is a single one: laziness. "You can quit spending your resources and time on applications like webmail -- and leave the work to our busy bees at the Googleplex," Middleton wrote.

Google may well be on the money here -- APC's past discussions with ISPs has indicated that running the email system for customers and dealing with spam while offering an acceptable amount of reliability is a major cost and headache for companies that, frankly, would prefer to focus on the 'tubes'.

However, despite that, there's a few elements of Google's new offering that might give ISPs (and their customers) pause for thought.

Unlike the individually accessible Google Apps services, which are primarily supported through advertising, ISPs will have to pay for the service. Google is being rather coy about the pricing, merely inviting ISPs and other interested parties to apply and learn more, but does suggest in its product information page that the service will be offered "affordably".

Secondly, while Google talks up the potential for ISPs to customise the service, that might not always be good for end users.

For instance, a key selling point of Partner edition is the ability to "offer subscribers the latest Google applications on your domain". If a Gmail account is tied to ispname.com.au, it suddenly becomes a lot less appealing, because, like any other ISP email address, changing ISP means having to tell everyone you know about your new email address.

Google hasn't indicated yet whether customers of this ISP-sponsored Gmail will be able to easily port their mail over to a new Gmail address, either.

Similarly, the promised storage volume is "up to 10GB". If Google offers ISPs the choice of how much storage space to offer customers (and if less space costs an ISP less dollars) then the chances are that ISPs will offer a minimal amount.

For Australian ISPs, there's also the question of whether Google will consider them worth their time, or offer sufficient differentiations. Google's application form categorises ISPs into five size groups, with the smallest covering up to 200,000 customers -- a number that would cover all but Australia's very largest ISPs. Size, in this case, might not be everything.


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Camandco1:

Or you could just do the smart thing, and completely ignore your isp's email and just use the free version of gmail....!

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

tin:

I started hosting my own email at home because it was easier than relying on 3rd parties.
My mail server (Exim4 and Dovecot) sorts my mail into folders (thanks to procmail) for me, and I can access it via IMAP from whereever I am. Or webmail (Ilohamail) if I'm somewhere with a restrictive firewall.

OK, I'm not normal.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

chris nhac:

no that's fine! that's what i do too =]

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Yiorgos:

and quite rightly so!

postfix, dovecot, squirrelmail, clamd, amavis-new on Centos 4 are my tools of choice.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

socketwiz:

>I started hosting my own email at home because it was easier than relying on 3rd parties.

same here, been doing it for years mainly because I got tired of my email address changing so I registered my own domain and host my own mail now.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tristan:

I did it for many years till I went to put my server in a datacenter. Every downtime I had was a pain I couldn't afford. Now I am in heaven.



I know I am less normal than you are ;-).


29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Beldin:

you have a business account with your ISP, but most ISP's do not allow you to run servers with a residential account. It violates the TOS and will probably get your account suspended. My ISP's (Bellsouth) email is the pits. I just have all my email accounts setup in Gmail and no more worries.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Rod B:

APC just can't help itself. Of what possible relevance to this story was the gratuitous reference "Australian ISP BigPond's infamous email meltdown in October 2003" except to continue the anti-telstra bias of the entire site? Did you check this with Telstra PR before you included in the article? It never happened, and even if it did it wasn't Telstra's fault. Graham Samuels is to blame. Or the Government. Why don't you "whirlpool" guys just leave the poor company alone? That Dan Warne put you up to this didn't he? APC is single-handedly waging a mis-information campaign against Australia's greatest company. Clearly Singapore Optus or some other foreign company - is paying you all! Telstra is really, really, really good. Really. Get with the pogrom!

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Joseph B:

> Get with the pogrom!

... gave me a good laugh, thanks.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Pedant:

Just because you don't know what a word means, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

chris nhac:

Yeah, except that that word generally refers to widespread massacre/persecution and has absolutely no relevance here.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anony Mouse:

Maybe you should leave the pogrom and let him have his laugh.

po·grom
n. An organized, often officially encouraged massacre or persecution of a minority group, especially one conducted against Jews.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pogrom

/Hates grammar nazis

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tristan:

This comment was to early to apply to Godwin's Law, and by the use of a cryptic word nobody is complaining but, hell this should be the end of the thread!!!


29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Jack:

What a load of spin by Rod Bruem, again! Regarding "Australian ISP BigPond's infamous email meltdown in October 2003", Telstra's Kerrina Lawrence admitted she had no real idea on when the problems would be solved.

How's the poll going at your site? Ouch, Looks like Telstra will be voted yet again by the people as blocking high-speed affordable internet in Australia! Keep it up Rod, i can't stop laughing at you.



29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

APC administrator:

I'm sure "Rod B" posting here is another "Rod B", not Rod Bruem. I think it's designed to be satire :)

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

Muhahaha, too funny. Wish I'd thought of it. Is comment of the NWAT faux pas to invade all threads now?

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymouss:

no no their not!!! telstra are freakin rip offs!!!

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Ziggy:

Yeah, another poor excuse of an article to rubbish Telstra. Well done :).

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Andrew S:

On the subject of ISP accounts, I have never signed up to an ISP based on their email provisions. If you do then you obviously don't value your email account at all. If you did you wouldn't tie it to a specific ISP as you would lose your email account when you crack the sads with your ISP and move.

If you are serious about email you have your own domain name and email servers that are exclusive of your ISP, which costs bugger all.

Email accounts are not a value added service. Especially when you can have unlimited email accounts and 20GB+ of storage for $10 a month elsewhere.



29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dan Warne:

Me too. Unfortunately, though, you and I are very much in the minority. The proportion of people who actually care about their tech and ever go beyond the "defaults" (or what's offered to them by their ISP) must be less than 10-20% I reckon.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

Why do you need your own mail server? (Yes I'll come clean I run one too.)

But for email portability all you require is a domain name and a good DNS service. Use something like zoneedit and you can fire your mail and other individual named mail under for your domain straight into POP3 mailboxes.

Its the first thing I recommend for start-up businesses all the web sites mail servers etc can be added as required.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

(duplicate post)

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

AC:

Recently I set up Google Apps as the business email system for our company. While email via Outlook worked just fine, we had a terribly tough time connecting our staff's Blackberrys to email via G/Apps ... because Blackberry's Internet Service (BIS 2.0) is just not designed to work with G/App's POP settings.

We eventually had to set up mail forwarding to our staff's Blackberry email addresses ... of course that raises whole lot of issues with BBRY/Outlook Data Sync.

Also, in Google Apps, you can't send yourself an email via a POP client like Outlook or Outlook Express.

And Google Apps does seem slower compared to our earlier email server.

The MAJOR positives ...

(1) NO SPAM. AWESOME.
(2) Great Webmail access via the familiar Gmail interface
(3) Other useful services like drawing POP mail from several different email services you may be using to your G/Apps account.

Net - G/Apps is a good thing - but they need to resolve issues before they roll out on such a huge scale, in a B2B context.

It'll be a huge blunder if ISPs come back to sue Google over these trifles. Because ISPs will flounder if a few hundred thousand subscribers fuss over their Blackberrys.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

APC administrator:

I had the same problem, but I got my telco to escalate the issue to Blackberry support, and what they had to do was add my domain name to the Gmail profile at Blackberry. Apparently they have a special deal with Google that provides true push email for Gmail users, and the same SHOULD apply to Google Apps, but you have to get your domain added into the Gmail profile on the RIM BIS servers.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Josh:

One thing going for Google though is that you have the ability to get your mail OUT without any additional price (POP, forwarding, etc..) Which you can't do with any of the other big, free webmail/email providers... So, if anything else, it might be perpetuating the "lock in", but without the "lock".

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Smithee:

This article doesn't cite one way in which a person would be *worse* off with Google than with ISP based mail, and yet it claims that it should give us pause?

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

carl0ski:

I sent this as a feature request to Google in 2004 since it already offered POP access and
absolutely every Webbased ISP Email is terrible.

I'm a little disappointed of no mention of migrating mail

however knowing how google thinks

the ISP email aforementioned will really be an alias or redirect to the current Gmail Feature
(send email as other email you own

eg i can send from with outgoing address as
@gmail.com
@msn.com
@yahoo.com
@work.com
@ISP.com

all from my gmail, Google also mentioned Gmail automatically fetching emails from other POP email account automatically
(no need to check all email individually)

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

knus:

If a Gmail account is tied to ispname.com.au, it suddenly becomes a lot less appealing, because, like any other ISP email address, changing ISP means having to tell everyone you know about your new email address.

You don't get it. If someone changed their ISP from abcisp to 123isp they'd have to change their email address anyway. They are not getting assigned a @gmail.com email address from Google's offer. They will still have a @abcisp.com email address but the email will be hosted by Google. This is no different than the Google Apps for Domains.

Nowhere in your article do you indicate that you have knowledge they'll be assigning @gmail.com or @.com email addresses. This doesn't sound any different than the service they already offer. I have all of my personal and my business domain's email hosted by google and every single one of them use @.com.

It's a really slick service they're offering. Even if they charged $50/per user per year, like they do for their current pay service, it would still be cost effective for ISPs to dump their mail servers, spam filters, mail administrators, etc

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

bobwool:

Actually, the e-mail address you use for Google Apps is the domain address (i.e. bob@domainname.com), not your ISP. If you change ISP's, you'd be taking your domain with you, thus your e-mail address would not change. We've been using the Google Apps now for several months to handle our e-mail, as well as dabbling with the Docs & Spreadsheets and the customizable Start page (portal). We have maintained our plan with our hosting company and just modified the DNS records to direct webmail, etc., over to Google Apps. We still use the host for our website and a shared calendar (via PHP-based Calendarix), though. Our host's e-mail was unreliable, and we've been happy with Google so far.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymous2:

There is a difference. Comcast is a major ISP in the US. DreamHost is a webhost. They perform completely different functions. An ISP (Internet Service Provider) gets you on the internet. A webhost hosts, well websites. They do not get you on the internet.

If ISPs jumped on board with Google, which I would be glad if they did. Your joeuser@comcast.net address would be moved to Google's servers.

To hit ISPs would be the smart thing. Ror Google, to hit webhosts would be dumb. They'd only get a few 100,000 email addresses at a whack from large web hosts and maybe a few 100 from small web hosts. Not to mention the number of web hosting companies far exceed the number of ISPs. Comcast alone would provide them with tens of millions of addresses.

ISP definition

Webhost definition

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymous293:

POP access is useless for people who share their desktop mailbox with a mobile device or second PC. The best way to sync multiple mailboxes is IMAP or (god forbid) Outlook with Exchange. POP3 is a distant third.

Google has shown no inclination to support IMAP, so I don't see why ISP's would be attracted to use Gmail, because this would be a competitive disadvantage for any ISP.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

disc:

Here in the US, Yahoo has been doing hosted email for awhile. http://edit.client.yahoo.com/cspcommon/static?page=tos

I don't know all the ins-and-outs of it, but I don't imagine it would be any different than what Google is proposing.

If the basic business model is not unique to Google, maybe you should be challenging that instead.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

DBL:

Do you really want all of your life's communication history to be stored on an American server and within the easiest possible reach of American laws? I think this question is something that needs to be considered even if you are an American, but if you are not, then there is a chance at least that you could arrange for your data to be stored locally (or at least under the control of a locally owned business).

If ISPs convert to Google then there will no easy email solution for anybody that does not put your data in the clutches of an increasingly draconian legal system tooled by representatives that none of us elected.

There is not a Westernised country in the world that I can think that would be a poorer choice to become by default the 'world's data basket'.

We should be pushing in exactly the opposite direction. We should be keeping locally owned ISP email addresses and asking for locally owned webmail alternatives, as well.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

AnonymousNow:

It took 32 replies, and a lot of the usual nerd pedant wastes of space replies before DBL hit the real issue square on the head.

29 February 2008, 8:42 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymouse:

The question to ask is: will Google still scan emails for content, as they do in the free gmail? (so as to give customized ads)
THat is one of the biggest privacy issues.
Another privacy issue is that with the consolidation of services under one company, a user's information and web habits become less scattered and more gathered under one company.
Do you restrict cookies to the originating server? If every ad comes from say doubleclick, then there IS a connection from page to page. The same may happen with google and your email. Too much consolidation means your information can more easily be mined (and even connected to you)

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Ben Duncan:

For an ISP, it's important to retain your customers and provide them a reliable email-service and Webmail interface.

Just passing on this critical part of an ISP to a big player like google, waters down your ISP offerings and you loose control over your customers, the ability to charge for added services, and not to mention the security.

Do you really trust moving all your customer emails to google? When customer xyz calls up about their email, do you really want to tell them to call google because as the ISP you have no control?

Just as Google sees the value in retaining customers, email, data, power, so should you as an ISP.

We develop Email-server & Webmail solutions based on Linux called @Mail, and have a lot of experience consulting ISP's in this area.





29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Walter:

Google already offers gmail for your domain. You provide your domain name to Google, create the mailboxes at Google, create MX records in your ISP's DNS that point to Google mail servers, and your done. GMail offers secure pop and imap, and webmail.

It works out great, and makes your e-mail be independent of your ISP. If you move your domain to a new ISP, just set up the MX records at the new ISP to point to Google. I did it once. It could not have been easier.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

NoGUI:

Does no one have serious concerns with permitting Google to parse, index, and search the contents of their e-mail inboxes? Come on people! How long do you think it will be before they start to mine their own databases for new engineering ideas, or market speculation opportunities?

Just because Google is a Corp does not make them any less of a threat than a major government entity. Google already knows too much about each of us, and they have indicated a sincere lack of compunction about using that information in whichever direction they choose.

29 February 2008, 8:31 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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