How Apple could crush Dell

Dan Warne
18 February 2007, 3:48 AM


Imagine a Windows PC where all the correct drivers could be automatically installed after a fresh Windows install with a single software tool. You've just discovered Apple's secret weapon in its war against Dell.


What is it about the PC industry? Within a single laptop model number, it's not uncommon to find five completely different hardware configurations.

It appears PC makers are obsessed with cost savings at the expense of everything else.

An Ethernet chip that's 20c cheaper here for the discount-retailer version of that laptop. A sound chip that's $1.00 cheaper there for the corporate version.

The result of this short-sighted thinking is thousands of man-hours down the track as users and support staff try to identify the right drivers for a system when it comes time for an operating system reinstall.

For example, look at this list of drivers available for the Toshiba Satellite M30.

Should I download the wireless LAN drivers for the Intel Pro 2100 chipset, Intel Pro 2200 chipset or Atheros WLAN chipset?

For some godforsaken reason, Toshiba has decided to use three entirely different wireless chipsets within the same model number of Toshiba Satellite.

Of course, branded system manufacturers do supply a system restore disc which has all the drivers preinstalled into a copy of the OS that came with your laptop.

But inevitably, we mere mortals lose these discs and can't be bothered paying $40 for Toshiba/Dell/HP/whoever to send us another one.

Apple's secret weapon

All the coverage of Apple's Boot Camp dual-boot installer has revolved around the fact that it makes it possible to run Windows on a Mac. Fair enough, that's the sexy, killer feature.

But there's another powerful side to it that the press has barely focused on: the all-in-one driver installer.

Apple is applying its integrated hardware-and-software model to running Windows via Boot Camp.

One install CD has all the drivers you need no matter what model of Intel-Mac you're using.

It's downloadable from Apple's website, and it doesn't require you to make any choices about which flavour of Intel-Mac you're using: it senses the hardware and figures it out for you.

Admittedly, the current betas of Boot Camp are far from perfect -- probably by design, since Steve Jobs wants to sell upgrades to Mac OS X 10.5 with the final version built-in.

In the long run, maintenance of Boot Camp will become a major pain for Apple, because it will inevitably have to manage 20 different wireless chipset drivers as its hardware engineers move to cheaper or newer designs. Already Apple's "Airport Extreme" brand has a generous handful of different chipsets in use.

But unlike every other PC maker's drivers, it's Apple's problem to sort out the driver mess, not yours.

As an Apple customer, you just get one driver CD that does it all.

Dell's missed opportunity

Arguably, Dell is Apple's biggest competitor: it has made buying a PC a beautifully smooth process.

But Dell's achilles heel is customer service. It has openly admitted on its blog that it has a long way to go and that its call centre staff need better training and resources at their fingertips to help customers.

Imagine how the volume of calls to Dell support could be slashed if there was one single downloadable tool which would install all the right drivers onto any Dell PC.

Yes, it'd be nearly impossible for Dell to do that now given the enormous variety of configurations of Dell PCs out there, but it's something that Dell could start doing from some point forwards.

Perhaps you might even like to vote for this idea at Dell's new IdeaStorm site to encourage Dell to consider making a single driver CD/DVD for all Dell machines.

However, if you're looking to buy the best Windows machine out there, the simplest solution might just be to buy a Mac.


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Crazydiamond:

Well,

As a long time (15 years at least) mac user - I bought a dell e1505 as a second computer/notebook. My old eMac is still my prefered computer for most things - and I will get an intel iMac in the future - but the E1505 dell notebook was much cheaper than the mac offerings - mainly because it had the option of a decent GPU (at x1400). Only the macbookpro's come with a decent graphic card (x1600) and they are much more expensive. The ability to fully customize with dell - a little slower CPU - a lot faster GPU - smaller hard drive - more memeory - resulted in a feature set i wanted for a lot less.

It was a painful process to get it all configured and set up - but no that it is running it is okay - and has a place in our home as the #2 machine.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

Nice dream but. Apple haven't coo-ee's chance of getting near Dell's price competitiveness if they have to maintain the PC architectures flexibility.
The mass unthinking in the MP3 market may cop one size fits all but the tight pressed IT manager or the savvy PC buyer will see through such a strategy in a moment.
For all the inflexibility of the Dell web interface, Dell still has a lot to show Apple how to suck eggs about.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

FactChecker:

Keep in mind that Apple Macs can run Mac OS X, Windows and Linux, while OS-limited Dell's can't run Mac OS X or any of the best-in-class Apple Mac-only apps like iLife, Final Cut, etc.

Date of configuration: Feb 15 2007 from respective online stores

Dell XPS M1710 Formula Red
Processor: 2.33Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
OS: Vista Ultimate
Display: 17"
Memory: 2Gb DDR2 (667Mhz)
HDD: 160Gb 5400rpm SATA
DVD: 8X CD/DVD Burner (double layer)
VideoCard: 512MB NVIDIA GeForce
Wireless: Intel PRO/Wireless 3945a/g || Wireless 355 Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
Connectivity: Modem (Assumed built-in) || ethernet
Camera: None (Assumed)
Softwares: None (or Vista addons)

TOTAL US$3,921

- - -

Apple MacBook Pro
Processor: 2.33Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
OS: OS X Tiger
Display: 17"
Memory: 2Gb DDR2 (667Mhz)
HDD: 160Gb 5400rpm SATA
DVD: Superdrive 8x (double layer)
VideoCard: 256MB ATI Mobility Radeon
Wireless: Built-in 54Mbps AirPort Extreme (802.11g) || Built-in
Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
Connectivity: Apple USB Modem || ethernet
Camera: Built-in iSight
Softwares: iLife06

TOTAL US$2,848

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Jon_Doh:

I've known for years that when configured with comparable components Macs are cheaper than Dells because I have priced them myself when building laptops. Not only are the Macs cheaper, but their laptops are much thinner and lighter not to mention light years ahead in the operating system.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

LucasC:

Of course macs are cheaper spec for spec. But how many people go to Dell for higher-end spec machines? Not that many.

Most of Dell's customers are the average Jo Bloe user on a shoestring budget looking for a cheap PC or laptop in the $500-$1500 price-range.

How many complete computer packages does Apple sell in that price-range? None.

Apple is no competitor to Dell's key market, and vice-versa.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

xmattingly:

"Most of Dell's customers are the average Jo Bloe user on a shoestring budget looking for a cheap PC or laptop in the $500-$1500 price-range.

How many complete computer packages does Apple sell in that price-range? None."

Ahem. What do you consider a "complete" computer package?Every heard of an iMac or MacBook?

Oh, I beg to differ about Apple competing with Dell. The consumer market (as you referenced) is where Apple has gained a strong foothold -- they have a stellar package of "lifestyle" software + hardware which no PC manufacture has a good product to compete with. Unless you count 3rd party crapperware that comes preinstalled on your machine.

There is a very substantial reason why Michael Dell suggested Apple license Mac OS X to them, and subsequently switched to AMD after Apple made their switch to Intel. Dell is running scared, and will have to run over some very hot coals just to MAINTAIN their market share.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

jeffharris:

Yes there are numerous Mac models available under $1500. Be aware that unlike Dell, Apple does NOT sell stripped down boxes.

ALL Macs are full-featured, with wireless and a full array of ports. Airport wireless, Bluetooth, ethernet 10/100 gigabit on Pro models), USB2, FireWire 400 (plus FireWire 800 on Pro models), audio in/out, built-in camera and mic (except for the Mac mini and Mac Pro). All laptops and iMacs support a SECOND external monitor for the cost of an adaptor cable ($20).

They ALL include the FULL version of Mac OS X (there's only ONE), so you get everything, even developer tools, plus a full array of software. iLife (iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie HD, iDVD), etc., etc..

Also, you don't need anti-virus or anti-spyware software.

So:
2 - iMacs - 17" $999 and $1199.
1 - 20" iMac $1499

2 - Mac mini $599 and $799

3 - MacBooks $1099, $1299 and $1499

Do some research:
http://store.apple.com/

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

me:

Apple seels no PC or laptop within the $500 - $1500 range? Me things you had best visit apple.com sir.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

dirk Kennedy:

Now with the release of Vista. The days of the $399 box are over. You cant even run Vista on a bare bones wintel machine. You need a fast processor AND a very high end video card. he dya sof the on board graphics chip are history as vista will not display a 1/4 of its shiny new interface. Microsoft dumped longhorn and came up with an OS that has to compete with OSX.
Fortunatly almost all of apples machine can run vista flawlessly.
So the Joe Blow's of the world wont have the ability of buying an emachine that runs the dinosaur known as windows.

Face it kids, Its game over,


29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

d3p0:

"while OS-limited Dell's can't run Mac OS X or any of the best-in-class Apple Mac-only apps like iLife, Final Cut, etc."

Don't be so sure about that. I have OS X running stable on my Dellintosh performs quite well and is capable of running the applications mentioned.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Susan:

This article starts with what I refer to as "lazy journalism". That is the author did very little to research before writing - as did the users.

Facts;

- Dell is not Apple's biggest competitor. The entire WINTEL world is Apple's biggest competitor.

- Dell offers an abundance of online tools, software management tools etc. that TRUMP the tools the user spoke of above with regards to LENOVO. Dell knows where 100% of every Server, Notebook, PC is and what they are. Lenovo doesn't. Neither does Apple.

- According to 3rd party research Dell is now on TOP of the industry again for service. 80% of calls are handled without dispatching a technician and getting users up and running immediately.

Enough Said....Susan.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Matt L.:

If you're going to get technical about who is Apple's largest competitor, it would be HP as they are now the #1 selling PC brand.

As for the online tools, you don't really need anything out of Apple when you reinstall the Mac OS, all of the drivers are installed and work, out of the box. Nor do you need a driver for 3rd party components. They just work. So, that is really a moot point as for an Apple you don't need the online tools nor do they need to know where/what their servers/laptops/desktops are.

And how much of that 3rd party research says that most of those 80% of calls end with 'insert the restore disk and restore your PC because I'm not technical enough to fix it outside of this script they've given me'? Just because your hardware isn't failing and causing a tech to be sent doesn't mean that the support is performing greatly.

I've had my 12" G4 PB for 4+ years, and the only time I've had to wipe it was to install Panther, then Tiger, and back to Panther because my wife didn't like Tiger.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Eyeball Kid:

You can talk all you want about "price-point", but when you've got driver problems, or compatibility problems, you can put a lot of time into getting everything working right. Many years ago, before I used OS X, I spent many a night trying to get my mac functioning with a degree of smoothness. I was also operating Wintel machines at work, and the problems were worse. All of it took time away from what I wanted to do, which now and again was simply to sleep.

Now, with OS X, I really don't have to worry about any of it. I don't have to worry about getting my machine infected. I don't have to worry about crashes I don't have to worry about freezes, or reformatting the hard drive, and I don't have to worry about software malfunctions of any kind. IMO, OS X is simply the most advanced and tightest OS around, and if the Mac doesn't compare penny for penny with any Windows box, the savings come through in spades when compared with the TIME spent on getting a machine to work right, day in and day out.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Super Chump:

Unfortunately that would imply that Apple is even a blip on their radar. Don't kid yourself. Apple is a poodle that thinks that it's a rottweiler.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

macbones:

Blip on the RADAR? Apple has 25% of the market cap of microsoft right now, and is 10X more manueverable. Apple's market cap is higher than Dell's at the moment. Remember, Apple dips on the hardware side and the os side, so double their market share in terms of revenue stream. So who is really the 800# gorilla?

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Mort Blort:

Windows is a poodle. UNIX is a Rottweiler. Apple is a UNIX.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

me:

Apple is tied for being the third largest PC manufacturer.

That's much Much MUCH bigger than you're giving them credit for.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Mac Daddy:

Apple is the #1 producer of Macintosh computers in the world, and it's been that way since 1984! What more could you want? :)

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

wizard:

....Dell is on top for service.... ???
This is almost too funny for words. Dell sat by while lap and houses burned. Videos of Dell laptops burning brightly were posted everywhere on the net.... ever tried to get warranty service? LOL Dell employee Susan sound wake up and smell the BURNING plastic.


29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Gorp:

Yes, but Dell is still a Juggernaut to contend with...case in point: Electronic Data Systems (EDS) Navy-Marine Corps Intranet (NMCI). Which in fact has netted almost 1 billion (yes, that's with a "b") in revenue for EDS.

Even sadder, is that the US Govt is going to have to stick with EDS (whose primary supplier is....Dell! Surprise!) due to the sher amount of $$$ it's alreaady invested. And even the Commandant of the Marine Corps has come out and stated that he's unhappy.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dr.phil:

I want to comment on Susan's article. First off, Dell has the very worst customer support that a consummer would ever want to deal with. Let me give you an example, I have a customer who bought a new Dell Computer two years ago and the hard drive just went out last month. The customer called Dell Tech Support they sent out a technician who installed the drive started Windows for the customer and walked out of his home. Keep in mind that the customer paid $375.00 for an extended warranty. The technician from Dell said to the customer we don't install the drivers you do that!

Susan,you might think PC is wonderful, but don't forget that there are 275,000 viruse, and over 500K of spyware files that can steal your identity. I have both PC and Mac at home. Still the Mac is a much better machine all around. At least it works. Apple's Tech Support is so much better then Dell. At least the people at Apple can speak English compared to Dell's tech support (meaning over Seas)

The average consumer gets a virus in 10 minutes. I haven't seen a virus on an Apple machine since the Auto Start worm back in 1997.

Enough said! Buy a Mac and dump your PC.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tranz4m:

Dell XPS M1710 weight 8.71 lbs
Macbook Pro 17" weight 6.8 lbs
Dell is 28% heavier.

Dell XPSM1710 size 1.69"H x 11.3"D x 15.51"W
=296 cubic inches

MacbookPro 17" size 1.0"H x 10.4"D x 15.4"W
=160 cubic inches
Dell is 85% larger!

I guess with Dell you get a lot more for more money!

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Boulos:

Ah, you might want to do a little more reading FactChecker -- the ONLY reason non-Apple machines dont run Mac OS is ... because Apple wont let you. And you'll find there are a couple of Wintel machines that DO run Linux, just one or two, or three or four, or five or six.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

pg5150:

I'm almost willing to bet you work for Dell or own Dell stock. The reason I say this is because you seem delusional to the fact that Dell is in some deep do do right now because of their business structure. Design is an after thought in all of their products, they have horrible customer support, and just read the article above about hardware. I know where those lost PC sales at Dell are going, they are going to Apple. People don't want a laptop that looks like a bathroom scale. Obviously Apple is doing something right because sales and growth are both booming. The only reason PC's still have 95% market share is because most people are uneducated about their choices. About 95% of people that give the Mac a try never want to go back to a PC. The only thing is most people out there have never tried a Mac, thus don't know what they are missing. Because of current sales almost everyone out there will soon know someone that owns a Mac, once the PC user base at large gets a chance to try one the game will be over. I know people out there say the same thing happened to Apple in the early 90's when the IBM clones over took them, but things are much different today. First, Apple has it's own retain outlets now that are doing quite well so outsiders can't make business deals to get them pushed to the back shelf in retail. Second, the PC user base has had 15+ years of Microsoft dominance, and Bill Gates telling us the next version will solve everything. This is why the media hasn't been giving Bill Gates such an easy time recently, they've heard his song and dance to many times before and like most people out there they are sick of it. If I was to give Michael Dell advice it would be the same advice that he gave Apple years ago that's coming back to bite him in the butt. Mr Dell you should close the company and give the money back to the share holders...

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

jwbaumann:

I am a long-time Apple/Mac user/fan. Over the past 5 years, I have gone to Dell's site many times to configure a system comparable to Apple's basic iMac and iBook/PowerBook. In every case, the Dell system costs more, and it takes 3-5 times as long, and I ALWAYS encounter a "you can't get this with that" incompatibility message. Always.

It might be worth it if the final product from Dell was better, but the reality is that I would still have an ugly box that runs Windows, with all its security and management issues. I cannot imagine why anyone would voluntarily use/choose Windows or Dell.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

OS11:

Raindog - I don't think you realize but Apple now has cost advantage over DeLL. First of all DeLL machines ship with a Microsoft surcharge of about $60, Apple has no such expense since its OS is free to put on each machine. Second, Apple builds all Macs offshore, whereas DeLL is still trying to build them in the states. They are working hard to get everything out of the country, but until they do, they can't compete against Apple on price per unit, labor is killing them.

The entire high end (Servers and Towers) Apple now has a major cost advantage when an IT department is looking for Speed and Low Cost. Apple's Xserve buries DeLL in hardware and trumps them on Server Software since OSX Server allows IT Departments to lower costs by over 4 times compared to what Microsoft is offering. The Xserve is now the low cost leader of all top Server Vendors. Check it out:

http://www.apple.com/xserve

With Tower Configurations, Apple is about 20% less in price for more features.

Soon, Apple will eat DeLL's lunch on the low end as well.

Lastly, you need to understand Apple Inc. is now more valuable than DeLL Inc., so no matter how you look at it, Dell is imploding... so it's only a matter of time before we see DeLL fire "thousands", and shutter buildings all over Round Rock Texas. Apple is just too strong in manufacturing, design and distribution for DeLL to compete.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Terrin:

Dell, like Apple, builds most of its PCs in countries like China (do a Google search). Both Dell and Apple maintain some manufacturing capacity in the US. These are largely used today to customize computers. For instance, the stock configuration will come from China, but then will be customized to a customer's configuration in the US. With that said, I would gladly pay more for a Mac if it were manufactured in the US.

I firmly believe that it is hypocritical to be talk about how great it is be America, but then to turn around and happily buy products made in countries that supposedly are bad because they are not free. Products are cheap in places like China because they do not care about human rights. By buying products from China you are supporting all that CHina stands for at the expense of your own people who are trying to make a decent wage to live a decent life.

With that said, Dell is still able to kick Apple's butt in the low cost arena. It does so by using yesterday technology. For instance, dirt cheap Celron processors. To be fair, however, Apple does not compete in this arena. It does not make computers using yesterday technology. Accordingly, perhaps it is unfair of me to say Dell kicks Apple's butt here.

Apple is highly competitive with Dell when new technology is involved. For instance, the Core Duo processors machines. Dell usually, but not always, still wins for low end models of the Core Duo, against a comparable Apple offering like a Mac Book. Then again to be fair to Apple, Apple generally offers more technology in similar configured machines (e.g. motion sensors and ambient light sensors). However, Apple generally wins out in the high end Core Duo configurations like Mac Book Pros and Mac Pros.

The conception that makes are more expensive is based on 1) the Apple of yesterday, which used mostly self owned proprietary technology, and 2) comparing low cost machines using old technology with Apple's lowest cost machines, which do not use yesterday's technology. In addition, people like to say they could build a computer for less then Apple sells it for. Perhaps (I am not into that). Then again, I suspect you could build a computer for less then Dell would sell you a comparable one.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Snowy_River:

Saying products are cheap in China because they don't care about human rights is a gross over-simplification. There are amazingly complex economic forces involve as to why products, or more to the point, labor is cheaper in China than here. Just as there are reasons why labor is cheaper in a tiny town in the middle of no where in the US than labor in down town NYC. Also, buy products that are made in another country is only supporting another country's system in so far as the company that is contracting to have their products made in another country supports those systems. There are companies that go to great lengths to ensure that the working conditions and the daily pay of workers is kept relatively very high.

As for being willing to pay more for made locally products, that's not a bad attitude at all. The big killer in all of this is that transporting things all over the world is pumping more and more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. If / when companies have to pay for *that*, they'll be pushed to reevaluate the cost of making things overseas.


29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Terrin:

I agree that it is an over simplification. I do not, however, agree that when Asian countries are being discussed the simplification is gross.

The Chinese labor force can be placed into three categories. First, prisoners. Second, the military. Third, the disenfranchised labor force. Moreover, 95 percent of Chinese industry is owned by Communist Party Leaders.

The prisoners, are often political prisoners. They are a free labor force. They often work from five in the morning until past midnight producing practically everything. There have been stories from reputable news-sources saying the Chinese government even kills political prisoners to sell their organs (e.g. prisoners who speak out against the government).

The disenfranchised workers work under similar sort of hours as the prisoners work, but do get paid a handful of dollars a day (often the pay is so little they have to live in factory provided housing in which they are charged to live). Apple's own audit of the Chinese iPod factory confirms this well known fact. More importantly these people do not get to vote. When they speak out against the politician owners of the companies they are forced to work for, they get killed. That is what Talliman Square was all about. Students shot dead for speaking out against their oppressive government.

So, it makes no sense for people to talk bad about companies like Google for bending to the will of the Chinese government in order to do business there, but to then go out and buy products made in China. When you buy a product from China practically always you are making a Communist Leader very wealthy. A leader who often uses free labor to produce the products you are using.

Before free trade agreements, US companies were forced to pay a tax when shipping product into the US. This tax often made it uneconomical to build product in some countries (e.g. Communist countries we did not like). The lobbyists paid off the politicians and now these companies 1) benefit from the not only cheap, but often free foreign labor forces, and 2) pay no tax coming back into the US. Moreover, they get tax breaks on the money involved in doing business there, as well as money earned there.

I used to work for a clothing company that made some product overseas. My job was to calculate the cost of making a garment. Often it would cost like five dollars in total costs to have the clothing made and shipped to the US (not considering previously mentioned tax breaks). These same clothes would retail in the US at around $80. Sure eventually, there would be sales, and the average person would buy it around sixty, but there is a lot of profit involved there.

Accordingly, my way of being a patriot is to buy American when possible. (all stated facts here can be verified by looking at news paper articles readily available on Google). American companies have been allowed to sell out americans in the name of being competitive, when in fact, it is mere greed.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

ChrisM:

I belive you meant to refer to Tiananmen Square.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

sydneyenergyco-op:

You've got a lot of stuff wrong, but your last comment is dead on:
Companies moving to Asia is not about competitiveness, just pure greed.

The treatment of local staff dished out by glamour labels like Burberry Chanel and other lessers like Billabong and Quiksilver is nothing short of atrocious

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

jmmejzz:

"As for being willing to pay more for made locally products, that's not a bad attitude at all. The big killer in all of this is that transporting things all over the world is pumping more and more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. If / when companies have to pay for *that*, they'll be pushed to reevaluate the cost of making things overseas."

Not companies but consumers will pay for that in higher retail costs.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

More flawed Apple PR, on one hand you guys are praising Apple hardware's ability to run MS Windows, then you come up to with this "Dell pays a MS surcharge guff". Try re-running those calculations with a copy of XP or Vista included, hmm, because like it or not it will be the OS that most will want/require on their office desktop.
And while you guys are re-doing the sums why not do some more realistic comparisons against suitably spec-ed optiplex or latitude models and don't forget to include the cost of all the necessary business software into that model because we wouldn't want flawed figures would we.
Server space now you are kidding, I see windows boxes everywhere, I see a reasonable representation of Nix boxes but those chrome and mesh apple things would rate as nothing more than curio status. Apple's boxes the IT departments server choice for savings in speed and cost what parallel universe does this happen in.
You guys have really got to to stop believing that everything that comes out of the top of a skivvy is gospel and regain some grip on reality.
Is the Apple world takeover penned in before or after the release of the DRM free Ipod with the replaceable battery?

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

OS11:

First of all you "assume" people would still need to run Windows once they have a Mac, but in the real world, most Windows Applications have been ported or can be run "without" Windows using CrossOver for Mac. The heyday of Windows died in 1999, it's just taking the business community awhile to understand what has happened.

Second, the Xserve outguns DeLL's Optiplex by a factor of 4. IF you want the most for your money, least hassle and smoothest running systems. There is NO WAY a DeLL machine can compete if they are still running Windows Server. OSX Server is nearly 8 years ahead at this point in the game. MS is standing still.

Here's a nice chart that duplicates the services of what you get with DeLL & Microsoft for about 75% less.

http://snipurl.com/1amzu

Trust me, I run the numbers all day long and DeLL and MS are no longer able to compete in the server space with the strong showing of Apple into the marketplace.

Yes, I agree... IT departments are some of the slowest on the planet to implement better technology... a funny fact is when you mention Apple... their is a distinct fear that their JOBS are now on the line. True... but fear or not Apple is moving quickly into the enterprise and nothing short of total dissolving Microsoft's server direction can stop it. Unix Trumps MS Exchange EVERY TIME.

I only look at facts, while you appear to be trying to prop up the old MS/DeLL company line. Times have changed and Apple has completely changed the rules that you lived under when you were stuck using MS or Wintel products.

And by the way, any iPod ever made has a replaceable battery. They start out about $19 and you can do it yourself. Gosh, another ignorant myth has been blown out of your water.

-

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

IT departments may be slower to implement new technology and with good reason. Reason One: in the business sense a computer is just another tool. You use the tool you have as long as it can adequately do the job you require of it.
Reason Two: when you rely on a tool for business, it had better work, and had better be be the right tool for the job.
Reason Three: You dont use a hammer to drive in screws. (well competent professionals dont) Runiing requred windows business apps on some Mac emulator is not the best tool for the job.

While you may enjoy lathering your skivvys off at the latest new thing, (and good on you, glad you got a hobby) that same new think may not be the universal panacea for the IT world.

I'm no Windows fan, far from it, but by the same token I'd be damn fool to turn proven systems on their head just because Steve has built a pc that looks like a desk lamp. Cool as they may be chrome handles dont stand for squat in the TCO arguement.

PS: It is creditable that nondescript Chinese companies have provided a replacement battery solution which serves as a work-around for Apples poor design. But then again us conservative types would only buy Genuine, so that MP3 player would be destined for the bin in which it belongs.

Watch the blood pressure, wont you? Foaming at the mouth can be detrimental to your health. :>

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Mainyehc:

What does the industrial design of a consumer machine have to with a SERVER?

"I'm no Windows fan, far from it, but by the same token I'd be damn fool to turn proven systems on their head just because Steve has built a pc that looks like a desk lamp. Cool as they may be chrome handles dont stand for squat in the TCO arguement."

That would be the venerable iMac G4, a.k.a. Flat Panel iMac or "the new iMac", and it was you who brought it up to the argument, or so it seems to me... Now, I had one of those and it was seriously cool (my first Mac ever), and I have to agree with you in one point, and disagree with you on another: the TCO for that machine, chrome handle notwithstanding, was most definitely lower that that of many faster, better spec'ed Wintel machines of it's time (mine was a last Rev. 17'' 1.25 GHz G4 with a "whopping" 256MB of RAM, bought in Dec. 2003, and I could care less about it being under-spec'ed; the real value was Panther, duh), as "time is money" (ever heard of that?). OTOH, that friggin' chrome handle, while gorgeous and ergonomic, was VERY expensive; that's why the subsequent revisions, the iMac G5 and its look-alike sucessors, the iMac Core Duo and Core2Duo, feature some also stunning, yet much cheaper industrial design.

As for the XServe, if you did your research properly, you'd have found that all its iterations, the G4, G5 and Xeon XServes, feature an impressive industrial design. I won't go into specifics, as I admittedly don't know squat about servers, but I can assure you: I can recognize smart design when I see it, and common sense dictates (or it should, dammit!) that smart design saves money, BIG money. Also, it doesn't take an IT degree or whatever to understand that OS X is leagues ahead of Windows, and why.

If you still won't believe the XServe, coupled with OS X Server, will revolutionize IT, then read this, and tell us what you think:

Apple Takes On Exchange Server

P.S.- This may all seem to be pure fanboy-ism on my part: so sue me. That's what you get when you show contempt for a "rabid Mac fan"'s favourite computer design (and btw, it's not fanboy-ism, it's my FUD-sensor at work)... Peace ;)

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

Quote:"as I admittedly don't know squat about servers" .... There endeth that argument in a flourish.

The evangelism continues yet another link to another nondescript fan-boy website offered up as the absolute truth. Why do you people bother? Don't you guys realise you were born 100's of years too late to take part in the crusades?

Like I said good design is a little more than chrome handles and no visible screws. But believe what you will, hell there are even people out there that think French cars are good. Go Figure! :>




29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

FUDmeister:

" savvy PC buyer" ??
isnt that a contradiction in terms ?

90% of the computer-buying public know little or nothing about computers, and when they go to Best Buy (et.al) to see whats available.. the zit faced kid behind the counter shows them a WinTel Box .. not a Mac !

Since they have nothing to compare WinDoze to,
they end up buying it, thinking thats all there is..
When these consumers are told that Macs arent affected by viruses, trojans, spyware, porn popups and the like .. and they ask .. "Why is that ?" .. and they are informed that "Macs dont run Windoze" .. they usually are shocked to learn that there is a legit alternative to choose from ..

However, to those Wintel fanatics out there.. there is some good news ... for about $600 USD.. you can get a brand new Mac, and load Windows XP on it.. today !
Go to http://www.apple.com/bootcamp .. to find out how easy it is to do ..

And yes... your old VGA monitor, and USB keyboard and multi-button mouse will work just fine on the new Mac !!

Have you ever noticed that about 99% of the crap being spread around, comes from those too lazy to research their topic ??

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

pf:

Hi,

Apple innovate, Dell does not.

Paul


29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

JR:

It will never, ever , ever happen.
The reason is logical.
It would make Dell customers happy.
Therefore Dell will never consider it.
It's the way of the PC world!

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dave Hanks:

For years IT has forced WINDOWS solutions upon the masses. They did not want to "support" two boxes. (Who could blame them if each box was as difficult to support as those with WINDOWS? Besides, many realized that this was GREAT job insurance.)

Macs now run native WINDOWS/ (Hey, Dude it's an INTEL Inside!). Last week, I needed support for one "WINDOWS IE" issue. The help desk used remote control to take over my "WINDOWS" box and helped me solve the problem. He NEVER KNEW I was using a Mac. One month earlier I called the same department and asked if the applicaiton ran under WINDOWS on Mac... their answer: Mac WINDOWS is NOT SUPPORTED! (My new motto: Don't ask, don't tell!) That app runs only 5 minutes a day. The rest of the day that iMac is pure Mac OS X.

Overnight it is harder for IT to block an Apple Mac purchase... the argument "it doesn't run WINDOWS" no longer stands. Many Mac users only load WIDOWS if IT forces them to do so. Once they experience Mac OS X and no longer need IT to keep their systems running, these users celebrate! They tell their friends... who buy Macs, and so it goes.

Mac market share increased from 2.5% to 6.5% in two years! Quarterly year-over-year sales show increases of about 35%—that compounds quickly. [A concept few people appreciate with regards to market share!] University sales of Macs are appoaching 45% of all computers sold on many campuses. This bodes well for Apple. Some estimate a 50/50 market share WINDOWS/Mac OS X by 2011.

This long time Mac user is finally vindicated!

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

davidlt:

There was one website which is tracking what OS is controlling the market. (marketshare.hitslink.com)

I was trying to count how much market share does Apple have and it is about 6.22% as I can remember. There could be some inaccuracy so the real number should be between 6.00 and 6.50 per cent.

IntelMac (Mac based on INTEL CPU), took 2 per cent of market share in 1 year of existing. That's really, really amazing. The bigger market share Apple has, the faster it grows, I even could consider that Apple will have 8-9 per cent coming March (2007)

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Richard Dib:

Food for thought...

Think Apple is Small... Apple is worth more than Dell (Market Cap is bigger for Apple). Take a look at Yahoo Finance.


Does Apple has to complete with the WHOLE Wintel market?
Why? Does Gateway? Does Toshiba? Does Sony? Apple makes PCs like anybody else. Apple's PCs just happen to run more than just Windows (Linux, OS-X, Windows, Vista... all of them)


Will Apple dominate the complete market? I don't think even Steve Jobs expects this. I do believe eventually Apple will be #1 in the PC market, over Dell. Give it a couple of years.


At the moment, Windows PCs are Virus magnets. It is a fact! Will OS-X get their own Viruses? Who knows. But the fact remains.. OS-X has NO viruses... I have not seen one on ANY of my 5 Macs.. EVER!


OS-X does not lock up like Windows does. It is a fact. Unix computers are designed to run for a year with no reboot. I run several Linux servers with over 300 days uptime .. Unix/Linux is just rock solid stuff. Why is it that Windows is not? Microsoft decided to re-invent the wheel. Apple did not. Apple used long standing Unix as the base for OS-X. Unix has been out there for a VERY long time, prior to Microsoft being founded.


Are Apple computers cheaper? Does it matter? Do you buy a computer because is cheap or because it is the best? Do you buy a barebones Dell to install pirated Windows and software and save money that way? Well, maybe you should keep buying Dells. That is where Dell is cheaper... There is a HECK of a lot more pirated software installed on the average Windows PC than on Macs... and I mean LOTs more. Maybe you are one of those.


Apple's offering is the most intelligent. You get to try something new and better, but if you do not like it, you can still run Windows. Can you do that with a Dell? (Oh well.. I guess you can "hack" OS X to run on a Dell but it will never be the same.. no automatic updates... posibility of OS breaking down.. no support... yes.. it is worth the savings... NOT!


After all this... do you want to buy a Dell? Go ahead.. it is a free country ! (I presume it is where you are too)



29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Aussie1:

Guys

Let's not kid ourselves there only bloody computers.

Also if there are not Mac viruses why does Mac antivirus software exist?

I did a vivisimo search on Mac Visuses it cam back with 207 hit this was the first


05.25.06 MacVirus.org News posted by kta00
First MAC OS X Virus
a description can be found here: http://www.avira.com/en/threats/MacOS_Leap_A_details.html

more...


05.25.06 MacVirus.org News posted by YeeFam
New Malware - Mac OS X
New Malware discovered. Not dangerous if you do not click on executable. Also, you must acknowledge yes or ok to let it infect your computer.

more...


05.31.04 MacVirus.org News posted by admin
Widget Vulnerability - Tiger - Mac OS X Vulnerability.
With Apple's latest release of Mac OS X Tiger (10.4) along came the first security issue that effected the Apple portion of the operating system directly. The security issue revolved around the ability to automatically install Widgets when a user accessed a website that contained the code. Example c



29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tranz4m:

Now find a real article about a real Mac infected with a real virus. There is a difference between a security issue and a real virus. Find an article about an infected Mac that sends emails without the owner knowing it. Or Zombie Macs. Show me an article not written by a virus company trying to sell Mac users worthless software.
Good luck.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

The Skivvy Virus has infected a good proportion of Macs worldwide, while it has no effect on the machine it has turned many users of infected machines into a clueless prats who will spread the gospel according to Jobs in a tireless and ill-conceived crusade. At this time there is no apparent cure. :>

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tranz4m:

Like you said the Skinny on Skivvy is that it has no effect on Macs. Can't hurt them.
Effects Windows outlook only as another of the wonderful Active X viruses.
Your 0 for 1. Try again.

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

raindog:

Perhaps you'd like to look at Nathan's piece here just one of hundreds of examples.

Now this has been said many times before TransUm but read carefully and even you might be able to catch on.

Linux for example has very few viral attacks targeted at it, same applies for Mac because for the most place no-one would notice. No script kiddy bothers targeting minority operating systems.

If your Mac utopia ever arrived you'd find the virus attack as prolific as teenage acne. Face it you and irrelevance go hand in hand.

Do you still need to buy a clue or would you like to ask the audience?

29 February 2008, 8:38 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

David Flynn:

I've lost count of how many notebooks (and desktops) I have used, and the whole issue of "which driver go I need?" almost always drives me around the bend, especially when it comes to checking for updated drivers or doing a rebuild from scratch (ie not even a Ghost image to start with).

By memory, a few vendors (such as Lenovo's ThinkPad range, and Gateway) have offered utilities which check what hardware yo have and then looks up the vendor's online support site to advise what drivers (and other downloads and updates) you need. If I recall, the ThinkPads even have an update manager to ease the whole process, although it was never quite as smooth as I'd have preferred (for instance, it unpacked drivers into folders hanging off the the C directory and you never knew if you could safely delete those or not, post-update).

And there's no reason why each vendor can't do something similar, except for lack of effort or a feeling that it'd cost too much (but believe me, knowing that updates would be seamless would be a BIG incentive for buyers to choose one brand over another). There's already the DriverGuide Toolkit from www.driverguide.com, which can detect almost all hardware on your PC and then (for a fee, of course) help you download the necessary drivers. But why should I have to pay for this? If it's so easy for a third-party developer to do, why should not at least the top tier vendors be adding a similar feature to their checklist of "Reasons to buy my brand?".

In the meantime, it one again appears that Apple is showing PC vendors the way it should be done, and demonstrating why so many Apple users are also Apple fans, while PC users are just, well, users...



29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

whatif:

Here is where the basic logic of your arguement breaks down. It is rooted in a simple misunderstanding of basic PC market facts. The reason Toshiba does this...The reason any PC maker of notable size does this is a simple matter of capacity. It is not uncommon on many basic components within the PC market to be forced to utilize multiple suppliers simply because no one supplier is capable of meeting the demand for the manufacturer.

It's been great to see ATI and NVidia reach a size that they can supply enough video chips for a single model of a manufacturers line. It's been great to see Intel and Broadcom grow to the size to do the same for the NIC market. But the wireless market still is in this embattlement.

This isn't Toshibas fault, nor any other PC maker fault. Rather it is the markets fault. The reason that Apple isn't plagued with this (and history shows at times they are) it that their share in the market places them behind most of the major PC makers globally.

Size matters.

29 February 2008, 8:30 PM (5 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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