How eBay trashed its brand for the sake of profits

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Angus Kidman12 June 2008, 7:17 PM

The ACCC's rejection of eBay's compulsory PayPal plans is good news for consumers, but eBay's naked grab for cash has done irrepairable damage to the entire online auction market.


As APC reported earlier today, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has decreed in a draft ruling that eBay's plans to make PayPal the only accepted payment scheme in Australia for everything except for personal pickup transactions would be a violation of competition law. eBay's argument that making PayPal the sole option would reduce fraud was given short shrift by the commission, which argued that consumers were in a better position to judge risk on individual transactions than eBay's management. While eBay can appeal the decision, with only five days until it planned to kick the plan off on June 17, its options appear somewhat limited.

eBay's scheme, first announced back in April, has always been dependent on ACCC approval, although that wasn't always apparent in its aggressive marketing of the plan. And it is that aggression which is likely to be remembered by its most loyal sellers long after the current brouhaha over its now-failed attempt dies down.

When I attended the first public meeting to promote the scheme in Melbourne last month, the thing that astonished me wasn't eBay's ridiculous description of people who rejected compulsory PayPal as akin to drug dealers. Nor was it the company's inability to acknowledge the truck-sized holes in its own security efforts. It was the fact that eBay was so willing to ignore input from loyal sellers who had invested years of effort into selling on the platform, and who knew from direct customer feedback that many people simply weren't interested in registering for PayPal, no matter how much noise was made on the topic.

eBay simply repeated its mantra that its own figures showed that PayPal was safer, no matter what individual sellers may have experienced. It's worth noting that this argument appears to have singularly failed to impress the ACCC, suggesting that the pages of data which eBay had excluded from public display in its submissions were far from convincing. Secrecy notwithstanding, its arrogance pissed people off royally, and I'm not surprised. If I was a regular eBay seller, I'd have wanted to hit somebody, fairly hard.

Almost as disturbing was eBay's unwillingness to acknowledge that if the plan went ahead, it stood to make far more money from individual transactions than is currently the case. The way eBay officials told it, this shift was a public service and money had nothing to do with it. It seems no-one believed the spin, including the ACCC.

That's good news for the many small sellers who didn't want to force their customers to use a single payment method. But it's bad news for eBay shareholders, and not just because they've lost out on a potential effort-free revenue stream from forcing people to use an eBay-owned payment method.

It's bad news because it provides a permanent and irrevocable confirmation that eBay really doesn't give a damn about any of its sellers. Long-term eBay users have long suspected this to be the case, but the PayPal push provided an absolute bucketload of evidence to demonstrate that in the word of eBay, the company comes first, second, and third. Buyers rate a passing mention, and sellers are just a conduit for cash.

That doesn't mean that sellers are going to race off to use alternatives such as the Trading Post, if only because eBay still has the bulk of the eyeballs in this market. But it has delivered a solid kick in the goolies to the concept that eBay sellers will remain loyal to the platform. Given eBay's behaviour, why on earth would they bother?


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Dan Warne (Administrator):

Certainly was an ambit claim on their part...

12 June 2008, 7:22 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

PfftGreedbay (New user):

Angus, Brilliant reporting!!! Thank you on behalf of all current and EX Greedbay sellers.

Now, could you please reveal what the moronic so and so's have done to the feedback system which is seeing honest sellers being suspended at the drop of a hat through, oft times, no fault of their own.

Go to the Round Table chatboard on ebay.com.au to read about the f/back system which has driven sellers away in droves and to see the celebrations re Greedbay & Paypus' karma confronting them squarley in the face today.

12 June 2008, 8:50 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

thanatos (New user):

Ebay has had it's day I say Go away eBay. I'm of to join www.bidmate.com.au => at least they are friendly there

12 June 2008, 9:05 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

thanatos (New user):

It is possible that eBay will ignore the direction of the ACCC and wait for someone to challenge them in court, or it's possible they will delay the process by appealing, hoping that we all fall in line by the time they need to comply. Remember, I think, the ACCC must give 30 days’ notice to eBay to cease and desist.


12 June 2008, 9:05 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

gfh462 (New user):

Well written story because it is so true. They have now shown their true colours to their sellers and I for one will never forgive them. I have started selling at www.oztion.com.au as have 35,000 others since they made their greedy announcement and will never go back regardless of the ACCC decision.

12 June 2008, 9:44 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Sick of eBay (User):

Feebay are not to be trusted, it they dont get this through all seller's will pay another way, it wont be over.bang4bucks apparently hit 10,000 members in 4 weeks running , now that is a big number and all because ebay have been shafting people.

12 June 2008, 9:54 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

gfh462 (New user):

Great article and so true. I will not be going back egardless of the ACCC decision as they have now shown their true colours in their attitude toward sellers (The ones that keep them afloat). I now sell on Oztion 300,000 all Australian memebrs with over 700,000 items. Why would I ever go back?

12 June 2008, 11:14 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

mbbarnes (New user):

Great story ANGUS.
Finally someone has the guts to say what most of us dare not say on ebays own discussion boards.
Now that this policy seems to have been consigned to the scrap heap, its time to celebrate.
Regardless of what the final outcome is I wont be going back to ebay.
They have treated me like garbage lately and i will NEVER forgive them.

13 June 2008, 12:14 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Clapton*is*God (New user):

Paypal ONLY, that's not the half of it. With ebay's NEW changes, sellers are NO longer able to leave neutral or negative feedback, EVEN if the buyer doesn't pay. So, someone can bid on your item, ignore your emails, not pay and then leave you a negative feedback, for no reason. We have no way of warning others of these kind of buyers, since our rights have been taken away. They can also buy your item, pay and then say it was damaged and 99.9% of the time, ebay sides with the buyer and gives them a refund. So, the buyer gets to keep the item, for FREE, plus they get to give the seller a negative, on top of ripping them off.

Another idiotic change...ANY previous "neutral" feedback which was left with the intention of NOT harming the sellers ratings, have now retroactively, been turned into negatives. Even if the feedback reads "Great item, thanks" How does that equal a negative?

And then not to mention the padding of listings, that is going on. We have so many sellers boycotting, so we KNOW that the listing count, should be dropping SOME. But, ebay's way of taking it on...FRAUD & DECEIT...The ebay seller "BUY", whom we assume is BUY.COM, is listing millions of ads and then they are ending them early, so they don't lower the sell through rate. So, they are getting the listing count up, buy adding the millions of ads and then ending them, saying they are no longer available and then immediately relisting them to further increase the listing count 2 fold. When you are doing this, with millions of listings, it is wrongfully inflating the listing count and making boycotters think they are having no affect, when in fact, they are making a huge dent.

I just wonder if the stock holders are aware of this. But, more and more people, are finding this out and realizing, that we ARE making a difference. If they removed Buy.com, from the equation, there would be several millions less listings, every day. It's as obvious as the nose on my face.

Tracy

13 June 2008, 3:14 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Amanda (New user):

Wonderful article thank you! Aussies aren't the only ones who are mad at ebay. U.S. sellers are also pretty mad about recent fee and feedback changes.

13 June 2008, 4:58 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

redINKdiary (New user):

A point to be aware of regarding the much touted PayPal Protection is that the purchase MUST be made from a seller with at least 98% positive feedback. eBay has been busily fixing and manipulating feedback so that there are now very few sellers who qualify, and the system is no longer stable. A seller who is fine today can be restricted or on a 30 day suspension tomorrow; caused simply by the amount of feedback received in a given period, not necessarily by getting bad feedback.

It is comparable to my saying 'I will give you $100000 on the spot if you can drop this ball into my bucket within five minutes', but the fine print says you will be in a straight-jacket, blindfolded, gagged and I am allowed to move the bucket whenever I want.

This from PayPal TOS:

13.9 eBay Items Eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection. Every item on eBay (except Live Auctions and vehicles) that meets the above requirements is eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection up to $200.00 USD (Basic Tier Coverage Amount), but items are only eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection up to $2,000.00 USD (Top Tier Coverage Amount) and should be identified as eligible items in the eBay listing if:

1. The seller's eBay feedback rating is at least 50;
2. At least 98% of the seller's eBay feedback is positive;

13 June 2008, 6:18 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

mezzy (New user):

Never been a member never wanted to be one. However, at teh end of last year I joined www.oztion.com.au and it been amazing how the site has grown over the past couple of months. Ebay members have arrived in their thousands. And good luck to them! Ebay managers need to learn that you don't bite the hand that feeds you!!

13 June 2008, 6:57 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

McBanjo (User):

Now are we realising why they got the 'Vice'-President to announce and support these plans?

I feel sorry for Simon, poor guy.

Just want to let eBay know that if Simon gets fired or demoted, I'll still think of you just as bad.

13 June 2008, 1:21 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

exPowerSeller (New user):

"...it provides a permanent and irrevocable confirmation that eBay really doesn't give a damn about any of its sellers."

I couldn't agree more. I was a seller on eBay for 10 years, but have just had enough & quit as of April. It's really sad - it used to be wonderful.

13 June 2008, 1:23 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me In Oz (Regular user):

eBay will still thrive because it still has a global market and the consumers will always consume. We whinge about the price of petrol every day and yet we haven't sold our cars. We whinge about the evils of alcohol and tobacco and yet the governments are still getting recird revenues from them. We whinge about MS and yet they are still market leaders by a country mile ........ etc etc

13 June 2008, 1:50 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

altomic (New user):

so, I pay money to list, money when I sell, then I have to pay money to get my money.

plus if I sell internationally then I get shagged on the crap exchange rates.

13 June 2008, 4:10 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

charlie (User):


Good Day all, below is a graph from EBAY it speaks for itself the damage they are doing in Australia - The Economy is in a down turn with retail sale falling across the board all retailers having to have sales and its just the beginning = The new EBAY boy on the block is typical of the american whiz kids, here today gone tomorrow and takes the company down with him , he has to realize that you cant fit a square peg into a round hole every country is different, the way its going it will be another Bear Sterns or Enron saga "it wont happen overnight but it will happen"
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll281/lark-1/17-06-08eBayLoss.jpg

18 June 2008, 6:14 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Floss (New user):

I've started selling on www.bang4bucks.com.au due to the ridiculous eBay changes with great success. eBay you have lost a very loyal seller.

21 June 2008, 10:52 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

martin2008 (New user):

Ebay was a great tool for a while, but once the idiots tried to force its growth, at whatever cost, then it just became not worth the the stress it caused or the cost to use it.
Even for those sellers that are left on ebay, after a while of waking up in the morning with that gut ache, as you wonder if you will still be able to use your account is going to tell, and they too will leave ebay to what ever idiots want to stay on an over priced discount store.
And ebay may then realise buyer seller is that same animal not two species, most peopel used ebay to do both.

And ebay will blame it on everyone but ebay, as the rats at the top start jumping ship trying to get work someplace else before anyone realises what a mess they made of their last job.

Would you hire anyone connected to ebay? Those at the top, have proven that they have no idea of the long term, and those at the bottom are subservient morons, that struggle to think on their feet.

But things are looking up, as the alternative auctions and our own websites are starting to pick up and as ebay sellers keep having to hike fees to try pay ebay their cut. Then the prices off ebay are looking better to the buyers.

So good bye ebay, it was nice knowing you but, I think it is time you left the party to those of us that know how to do the business, I am sure that your love for data, and stats will open doors in jobs like data entry, or maybe government. Oh I forgot one of you have already thought of that, My comiserations go out to the people of California...

22 June 2008, 11:11 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

mandiangel1963 (New user):

excellent article, you might also check out the US ebay feedback discussion boards to see that US ebayers are running away in droves, due to their new greedbay policies

26 June 2008, 7:47 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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