ISP filter tests: ideally, someone will get a clue

Angus Kidman05 December 2008, 12:12 PM

The government has released the spec documents for its proposed compulsory internet filtering system. The problem? They're a confusing mess of vague waffle.


The specifications documents for ISPs helping to test the proposed "clean feed" could do with some cleaning up themselves if they're going to be used as a basis for any kind of realistic testing.

One of the key reasons for running technical tests before introducing mandatory national ISP filtering is to determine the impact that such filters might have on typical Internet access.

As Senator Stephen Conroy explained during a speech to the Internet Industry Association back in February: "I acknowledge industry concerns that filtering will affect internet speeds or will result in over-blocking or under-blocking. These issues will be addressed through the trial process."

However, if the Technical Testing Framework document issued to ISPs who want to participate in the trials is any guide, no-one has much idea what approaches will be used, what's likely to get blocked, or what results will be deemed acceptable. There's so many appearances of the word "ideally" that it seems that compromise is the only likely goal.

The government gives ISPs the option to test either simple blacklist filtering (using the list of sites already banned by the Australian Communications and Media Authority, ACMA) or a broader range of technologies, such as dynamic analysis filtering, DNS poisoning and checking IP address lists.

However, even the blacklist requirement is rather vague. The testing system is supposed to handle "a blacklist of up to 10,000 URLs". Yet ACMA's own list of prohibited sites contains just 1,300 banned URLs. The numbers will apparently be made up with "internationally available blacklists", though even this is far from certain: "It should also be noted that this is also expected to fluctuate over time."

There are other contradictory elements in the test document. Testing companies will ideally offer "individual user and/or management controls (to switch filtering on/off)", but this isn't compulsory. "While customers may volunteer for the Pilot, during their participation they would not be aware at any particular point in time of whether or not they are receiving a filtered service, depending on the kind of filtering solution being tested," the requirements note.

However, one of the key factors to be considered is "ease of use from a user perspective", which would be near-impossible to measure via surveys if the user isn't aware whether they're receiving the service or not or isn't given the option to switch it off. Consumers are also supposed to be able to offer examples of incorrectly blocked sites or sites that should be banned; this hardly makes sense if they're not sure if the service is switched on or not.

The testing environment is supposed to cover speeds "from 56Kbps through to 12Mbps", which is inadequate at both ends. As any phone owner will attest, mobile broadband speeds can often drop below the prior figure, while the upper limit is well below what the much-vaunted National Broadband Network is poised to offer all Australians.

The contradictory nature doesn't help ISPs decide the vexed question of whether to participate. If they don't, they effectively lose the right to complain if the filter scheme ultimately becomes compulsory and renders their service so slow or ineffective as to be commercially unviable. If they do, they'll have to spend an inordinate amount of time and cost trying to make sense of the vaguely-specified rules.


Post your comment



Comments

RSS feed Email alert

DuckMan (New user):

I propose an New Parliment filter
This filter will prevent stupid backward legislation form being tabled.
If a polititian or other applicable party wishes to table legislation that will adversely affect the rights of the law abiding populas they must first run a gauntlet of Snake pits flame throwers machine guns axes and swords and If they survive the guantlet before they are allowed (A)medical attantion and (B) to table the legislation they must first eat a Beijing a-z phonebook and receit in full all the phone numbers and addresses and birthdays of all the chan wang xang and zans while hopping on one leg and drinking acid. after they have completed this they will then be taked to an insane asylumm for a minimum of 70 years and then after passing the gauntlet again they will be allowed to table their legislation.


05 December 2008, 1:27 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

pmx (User):

Poor ISP's. Its just soooo unreasonable to expect them to take some reponsiblity for the service they make all that money from.
Nasty corporates, not letting them make money from distributing someone elses content.
Nasty government, not letting them make money from distributing illegal material.
Its better if everyone lets them keep one and over their eyes and the other hand out to take the money.


05 December 2008, 1:49 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting pmx:
Its just soooo unreasonable to expect them to take some responsibility for the service they make all that money from.

Then is it so unreasonable that we expect you the user to take some responsibility for your own actions? Where is the responsibility of the individual?

An ISP is no more responsible for transfer of pirated or illegal material than a petrol station or phone company is for providing products or services which may be used illegally.

What's next demand voice screening and disconnection of telephone services when foul language or illegal suggestion is detected in conversation.

Business and government are not there to do your parenting for you. It's about time people took some responsibility for their own actions. We don't need a grab bag of new laws we need fair and reasonable enforcement of laws we already have.

A curse on Conroy and his Ilk for contemplating such stupidity, and a curse on those too stupid to run their own lives, who entertain these ideas of an Nanny state.



06 December 2008, 9:37 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Your Average Joe (Regular user):

It's inevitable and soon !
Here's the latest ..........
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/05/2439048.htm?section=justin



05 December 2008, 4:22 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

pmx (User):

The RTA is certainly accountable for ensuring that people who use the roads are not hurt by them.

We wouldn't even be having this discussion if the clowns who run the ISP's had demonstrated some understanding of the issues. At the very least they could have got together and formed some toothless self-regulatory paper tiger like FACTS to provided a forum for grievances.

But no, that would be too much like community responsibility. They're all content to stick they're heads in the sand, arrogantly putting forward this BS about freedom of speech and how they're only the carriers.

Thats the problem with young industries, like ISP's, they need to grow the f*ck up.


05 December 2008, 4:36 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

McBanjo (User):

I just think the ISPs just have absolutely no incentive to be doing your parenting for you. They see this solution to the problem as totally futile, where the costs far outweigh the benefits.

The ISPs are more in the know than you might think. They are the ones shaping the future as leaders in their industry. Most of the time it's them telling the government what they should do and what should happen. Just look at the NBN. So maybe the government should listen to the ISPs, and not the 'all-knowing,' Stephen Conroy.

It's vital, on a matter of principle, that the internet remains as free and as open as it can. This stands as something of fundamental significance. If crime is committed on the internet, that should be dealt with without punishing the rest of the community, even if it's in the slightest.

I maybe want to visit a website about euthanasia, for research. No better place than the internet. Nothing should (and for that matter can) stop me from finding out about this stuff anyway. So it's futile in the first place, and just a plain nuisance everywhere else.

"Those who give up their liberty for safety, deserve neither."

06 December 2008, 12:52 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

*Sigh* (New user):

(Directed at pmx)

You, Sir, are an idiot!
You are pushing a personal, morality-based agenda!

I have seen NO ISP opposing this filter on the grounds, as you assert, of morality, nor even profit-motive. I see ISP's commenting on the technical infeasibility of the proposed censorship mechanism.

As to the ISP's forming a group to oppose censorship - why bother? The general populous, i.e. voting public, is doing a fine and worthy job of demonstrating their thoughts (thoughts that the very definition of censorship aims to eliminate)!


Edit: Did you ever consider the possibility that ISP's care not about the cost of mandatory censorship implementation? The costs will be met by either government (i.e. tax payer) funding or an increase of fees to the customer, or both ... food for thought, perhaps?


06 December 2008, 6:31 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting pmx:
The RTA is certainly accountable for ensuring that people who use the roads are not hurt by them.

They are? How do you figure that one?




Quoting pmx:
We wouldn't even be having this discussion if the clowns who run the ISP's had demonstrated some understanding of the issues.

So your suggesting all ISP principals are ignorant, that's a wild one. Run a few ISPs have you?


Quoting pmx:
At the very least they could have got together and formed some toothless self-regulatory paper

So your solution is the formation of an industry body that by your own admission would be of negligible value. Have you actually thought this though?


Quoting pmx:
arrogantly putting forward this BS about freedom of speech and how they're only the carriers.

What is arrogant about it? Are you suggesting freedom of speech is trivial? Oh and yes ISPs for the most part are only service providers(carriers).


Quoting pmx:
That's the problem with young industries

So it's young industry that's the problem is it? Do you think we should have all young industry legislated against too?

Quoting pmx:
they need to

No YOU need to consider what the hell your ranting about and perhaps after that you could put together a coherent argument without the swearing and accusation. If you cannot mange your affairs without legislative intervention that is your concern and not something which should affect a whole community.


06 December 2008, 11:28 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

lawrencemach8er (New user):

communism I thought this was a free country. What's next are they going to filter the media so if some one says kevin rudd is a failure as a government it will be blocked out and the person who said it will be shot dead?

07 December 2008, 1:05 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Oh fantastic... A filter no one wants being trialled in a way that proves nothing.

Looks like we're getting it regardless of how the trial goes :(

07 December 2008, 9:13 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Tin:
A filter no one wants being trialled in a way that proves nothing.

Brought to you by a man who cancelled signed contracts on a high speed Internet delivery system for rural Australia, essentially because it wasn't his idea.

Conroy doesn't know how to listen. Conroy refuses to answer questions addressed toward him and his actions. Those who empowered this industrial vandal to meddle with our telecommunications must now be very proud now.



07 December 2008, 10:31 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Carmar (User):

pmx - you say that the ISPs don't understand the problem. Surely the whole issue is that the ISPs DO understand the problem, it's Sen. Conroy who doesn't understand the technical issues. The fact that the proposal is so vaguely worded that it is going to take a team of corporate lawyers to unravel it points to this. If internet content upsets you so much, then install your own "net nanny" program. Oh, and don't have a letter box in case you get junk mail, don't go to the local newsagent in case they have sex content in magazines, don't turn on the TV, dont.....
The average virus filter software can be set up to get rid of most nasties, or is that just too much trouble for most people?

07 December 2008, 9:14 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

pmx (User):

I was hoping that one you "Forumologists" would jump in and say 'But the ISP's do have a code of conduct or a forum or something' .. but no. This just confirms my belief that the ISP's are only in it for the money. The "Free Speech" argument is just a convenient excuse for the ISP's to continue to take money for shifting around large amounts of illegal content. If P2P traffic and access to porn was restricted or stopped, that would put a huge crimp in their business model and there would be a lot of sad shareholders.

An internet filter will make no difference to business. If anything it'll save them some money because the government will be providing a service that they currently pay for themselves (either with an internal filtering system or an external filtered proxy server).
Business filters are even more draconian than anything proposed by the government as they limit internet traffic to business related activities only (no FTP, no P2P, no facebook, youtube, myspace, chat .. and certainly no porn) .. and despite of these restrictions, usage of the internet by businesses continues to grow and grow.

Also, would someone please explain how the government doing you parenting argument applies here. Currently TV, movies, books, magazines, computer games .. these are all subject to censorship and / or classification. Is this not the government doing our parenting for us ? Why would this concept not apply to internet content ? Is someone set up a TV station and started transmitting the type of material that is currently available on the internet, they be shut down and jailed in no time. Yet despite all the terrible cencorship restriction we still have robust open polical debate and a reasonably free media .. go figure !

You are kidding yourselves if you think that the mutual admiration society here on these forums passes for wider communitity attitudes.

17 December 2008, 3:37 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting pmx:
An internet filter will make no difference to business.


Except to the speed, occasional random incorrect filtering, loss of business to the website owners who are occasionally accidentally blocked, etc.
And then there's the times where unexpected things happen, like recently happened in the UK with Wikipedia (which could have been heaps worse).

Quoting pmx:
Currently TV, movies, books, magazines, computer games .. these are all subject to censorship and / or classification. Is this not the government doing our parenting for us ?


Again, no. They aren't. As a parent, you can still choose to buy an R rated magazine for your child. You shouldn't, but you can. Under this filter, there would be times when your choice as a parent is restricted.

Quoting pmx:
You are kidding yourselves if you think that the mutual admiration society here on these forums passes for wider communitity attitudes.


You're kidding yourself I think. Go look outside and see the mainstream media where people are all against this (except for the occasional IT illiterate who thinks it's a great idea).
I know about 50% of the people who attend our CHURCH think it's a bad idea. The rest are either under 12 years old or simply don't use a computer so don't care. If that's not a part of the wider community, then I'm a great big teapot with pretty flowers painted on the side.

17 December 2008, 5:35 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting pmx:
You are kidding yourselves if you think that the mutual admiration society here on these forums passes for wider communitity attitudes.

You are kidding yourself if you think everyone should fall in line with your insular and myopic point of view!
If you dont like the comments of others then you know what you can do!


18 December 2008, 7:53 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting pmx:
You are kidding yourselves

No, not in the slightest?


Quoting pmx:
if you think that the mutual admiration society here

Mutual admiration? If you insist on holding unpopular and unrealistic points of view you can hardly complain about being on your own with those same views.



Quoting pmx:
passes for wider communitity attitudes

And what section of the community do you suggest you represent? You'll be hard pressed finding wide acceptance for a narrow outlook.


Quoting pmx:
Also, would someone please explain how the government doing you parenting argument applies here.

This has been explained to you several times but you refuse to listen, you look after what comes onto your monitor without interfering with what and how fast things appear on mine and we can all get along.


Quoting pmx:
An internet filter will make no difference to business.

You really do not have a clue. Have you ever managed a corporate network? Ever implemented network security or tried to manage the conflicting aims of content control?
Your observations from the cheap seats show no understanding of what is required, what the costs are and what is and what is not effective.
Want to know what the most effective control on a corporate network is, it's not a filter, not some magic software, it's a signed acceptance of the corporate network usage policy. The only filter solution that ever worked was to unplug all the machines and lock them in a cupboard.

You've hadd the implications of the DET filter system explained to you. You've it explained that even this level of filtering does not stop all the nasties. Likewise you've had it explained to you what a negative impact that same filter system has on everyday usage. So if you choose to ignore those that have explained first hand the impact of such systems and you still choose to ignore such evidence, then frankly you choose to remain ignorant.


18 December 2008, 7:53 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply
17 December 2008, 3:45 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Big Baboo (User):

Yup it's me again ( the whole room groans as he walks thru the door )I think if this idea definitely does go ahead and it seems like it :( I reckon I'll go back to dial-up and save myself at least $35/month. I mean why pay for extra speed if you won't be able to use it.
Hope everyone had a good New Year

07 January 2009, 9:42 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Big Baboo (User):

Yup :) It's me again ( The whole room groans as he walks through the door )If this idea goes ahead and somehow I think it will :( I'll definitely be going back to dial-up and save myself $25/month. I mean why pay for high speed broadband when you won't be able to access it.
Oh and I hope everyone had a Happy and Safe New Year

07 January 2009, 9:47 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

anonymous user Anonymous user


Tags