Linus Torvalds on regression, laziness and having his code rejected

Angus Kidman21 January 2009, 9:20 PM

Want to know what happens if you suggest a way to fix Linux that might solve a major difficulty, but also introduce new problems? To quote Linus Torvalds: " I laugh in your face!"


Linux originator Torvalds is following his long-standing policy of attending the Australian Linux.conf.au conference but not appearing as a presenter in the formal program. However, he offered a number of comments from the floor during a presentation by LWN.net founder Jonathan Corbet on the kernel development process.

Corbet noted that regression — introducing code which helps fix some issues in the open-source OS, but is also known to cause other problems — is actively discouraged. "There is a pretty strong ethic towards not breaking things and I think that has gotten stronger over time," Corbet said.

After an audience question as to whether regression was ever justified, Torvalds was quick to respond. "We've had security bugs that we have to fix and if we have some programs that break, we'll make [that change]," he said. But that situation was uncommon, he added.

"What happens sometimes is the regression takes a long time to be found. If it takes half a ear to find a regression then at that point, it's too bad people. It's clearly too late, it's over and done with, and it's too late to regress from the regression."

Torvalds added that trying to work out the proportion of systems that might be affected by a regressive fix was a waste of time. "The number of machines does not matter. you always hear about machines that break; you never hear about machines that work. If you tell me this fixes more than it breaks, I laugh in your face."

The policy explain why Linux doesn't suffer from large service pack updates a la Windows which are supposed to solve major security problems but often render entire enterprise application suites unusable.

Torvalds also revealed why he rarely faces the situation of having his own code rejected from the kernel. Despite what you might think, it's not because of any sense of awe from the wider Linux community.

"The thing that keeps me honest is I'm really, really, really lazy. The last thing I want is extra work When I want code written, instead of writing it myself I send out pseudo-code" — an approach which leaves both coding and testing to others.

When Torvalds does write actual code, he's also remarkably laissez-faire about it. "Sometimes I write a patch but I don't want to test it myself — because testing is for wimps — so I send it to the subsystem maintainers." That can have one of two outcomes: "I never reject my own code if it gets sent back, but if it gets dropped on the floor I never notice."

Torvalds probably wouldn't get away with that behaviour even if he tried. :No free software product wants to merge poor quality code, but the kernel is more insistent and intransigent about that than any other product," Corbet noted.


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Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting the article: If it takes half a ear to find a regression...

"Half a ear"? Don't you mean "half an ear"??? Oh, no... You probably mean "year"... ;-)

21 January 2009, 10:01 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Truckasauras (User):

Yeah a quick spelling and grammer check wouldn't go astray on this article.

22 January 2009, 9:09 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Your Average Joe (Regular user):

What this article shows is that development of new code/patches for a free open source product is, and always will be, a hap hazard and slapstick affair ......... As I have always suspected ;)

I also find Torvald's responses a little apathetic for a man seen as a 'god' in the Linux fanboy clubs

22 January 2009, 10:02 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
What this article shows is that development of new code/patches for a free open source product is, and always will be, a hap hazard and slapstick affair ......... As I have always suspected ;)

It shows nothing of the sort! Torlvalds mention of lazy code and the results that would likely occur, clearly demonstrates that a structured procedure is in place for Linux development.



Quoting Your Average Joe:
I also find Torvald's responses a little apathetic for a man seen as a 'god' in the Linux fanboy clubs

Well fan-boys are a dime a dozen. Torvalds didn't appoint himself as any kind of god, it not an illusion he has ever held. Notable heads of Apple and Microsoft could do well to follow the example.

Silly fan-boys serve no purpose other than to up the volume of pointless static. Did you actually read the article? it sure looks like you did not comprehend it's contents.


22 January 2009, 11:04 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
Did you actually read the article?

Yes he did !
Quoting Raindog:
it sure looks like you did not comprehend it's contents.

There you go with the presumptions .......... Again !




22 January 2009, 11:18 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
Yes he did !

And you know this, how?



Quoting Me In Oz:
There you go with the presumptions ..

No presumption about it, the statements made in reply were in direct contradiction to the information presented within the article.
End of discussion.


22 January 2009, 11:35 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
And you know this, how?

If you want to be pedantic (and it seems you just can't refrain) then I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE he read it, BUT ........
That's exactly how I read the article.
Showed Torvald to be just as apathetic and arrogant as the Jobs and Ballmers of the world !






22 January 2009, 3:01 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Raindog said was I was thinking...

Additional point... The likes of Steve Jobs & Ballmer are held up by fanboys of other flavours as kinds of gods too... I don't see them doing anything any better. They don't even get involved in the code at all.

22 January 2009, 11:11 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Your Average Joe (Regular user):

Quoting Tin:
The likes of Steve Jobs & Ballmer are held up by fanboys of other flavours as kinds of gods too

That was my criticism of him ........ he is no better than Jobs or Ballmer !




22 January 2009, 11:26 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Truckasauras (User):

My wife met Ballmer when she worked for a minister of the former government. She said he seemed very nice but way too energetic. His bodyguards had commented that guarding him was very tiring because he was constantly on the go. My wife refused to ask for his autograph for me despite my pleading(not that I'm that much of a fan of his, but it would be kind of cool to have his signature).

22 January 2009, 11:39 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
The likes of Steve Jobs & Ballmer are held up by fanboys of other flavours


Quoting Your Average Joe:
That was my criticism of him ........


So you judge individuals by the level of adoration they can achieve? Isn't that a particularly shallow criteria?

Sould people be judged on their actual skills IE: code creation?

24 January 2009, 12:52 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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