Macs too hip for PC users?

satanix:

Why buy a mac you dont need to, just install MAC osx on a pc alomg with windows vista and windows xp and any linux distro you want, and all this on PC hardware, no need to waste money on a crappy mac.

William K:

More like users too hip for Macs!


Is anyone still following this topic, or am I a loner?

soCram:

You know the saying "Why should i take plumb, if i can get gold?"
Why should i use a copy, if i could have the original?
After errors on Windows XP, that not even microsoft could dissolve, i switched to an iBook.

William K:

Really?!? - Was it a hardware issue or another program interfering, by chance!!!

Macs suck - and are out dated. LET GO!!!!

iron8monkey:

This whole Mac and PC argument is soooo boring. As an OSX, Windows and Linux user, from an everyday user point of view, the only difference between any of these systems is the software that one uses to get the job done.

I have a Mac at home, Why? because I like OSX but my kids use Windows at school and I can't afford two computers, so I run both OSs on the mac natively.

If there was a PC maker out there that let me do that, I would probably go with that one if the price was right. As for games, well, PS, Xbox ... Sooo much more comfortable than sitting at a desk.

Its about time we stopped comparing these systems and just left people to pick, play and enjoy.

davidrhoskin:

If there was a PC maker out there that let me do that...

you mean, "If Apple let me do that"

'IBM Clone' hardware is perfectly capable of running OSX, but Apple has chosen to only allow their operating system to run on their own hardware.

VannA:

You've raised a point I'd never thought of.

In all the posturing, are Apple digging themselves a business-type hole?

Anybody who wants a portable entertainment platform *probably* wants to be able to play games on it, as they come out. This rules out OS/X.

People who want a business focused portable solution will be put off by the 'hip' attitude.

All very amusing.

justthething84:

When was the last time you saw a mac in a professional environment. They must be so crap and incompatible that no one wants to see them - let alone use them.

Cmon who cares about Macs. Macs are ugly. They are boring white plastic blocks. PCs are heaps better looking - and especially the ones that are used in home theatres (like media centre). Macs suck in home theatres because when watching a movie in a dark lounge room they stand out like DOGS BALLS because they are WHITE - home theatre PCs are better because you cant see them and arent distracting (because they are usually made out of dark materials/or you can make your own).

I have NEVER been given a proper worthwhile excuse for buying a MAC. I feel sorry for people who know nothing about technology and buy a Mac and dont realise how much they are being ripped off – you guys are just feeding Apple with money who gives you less in return than what a PC company could offer you. That’s the reason PCs are the most popular type of computer. Even the name “Apple” is just wrong. What a crap name for a company selling computer equipment.

"If you by a Mac you'll want to go back" (to a PC)

roundaboutmusic:

Every day, but my professional environment is obviously quite different to yours, PCs have always been the minority in my line of work... no i don't work in an apple store. it's all about the right tool for the right job - a PC just isn't reliable or compliant enough for music production. Tell me, does it hurt to think that all the music you listen to on your aesthetically ball-less PC media centre was most likely made on a mac?

stuffman:

Yet it is interesting how the Mac does not have one single professional wave editing application. The industry standard wavelab is pc only.

frits:

you are just plain stupid. period.

fritjz:

you're a brainwashed moron. period. blah blah mac look ma I'm a slobbering mac moron, period.

mackentux:

well well you must have only driven a commodore or Falcon then!!!!!

Eric:

Want another reason that I just came by. I am using Windows PE to ghost some machines with RAID controllers right. No problem you would think. Well you have to download Windows PE off of Microsoft's website it is a free downlaod suprisingly (they usually dont give anything for free.) They used a disk image file of .img. Not only 1. there is not a program within windows to burn this image file. but 2. when you double click on the file and use web services to help you find a program it lists it as an image file and tells you to download iFranView32. I had to download a trial version of Nero to burn the image to a DVD. Disk Utility would have handle this for crying out load. I mean come on. So there is another reason for you.

Luke Evans:

The only good mac is a Big Mac. Viva Le Windows

justthething84:

well of course the only good mac is a big mac - why would you buy a pc made from apple? ;)

Katrina:

Maybe he won't buy an apple PC. In my opinion apple products are too expensive in comparison to the features and performance. Maybe in future it will be better, cause their products have a great design, no doubt.

tweaked:

i hate those ads. Windows can do all that a mac can do.

'windows movie maker' = 'iMovie'

'windows media player' = 'iTunes'

I HATE MACS and more so for these untruthful ads. thankyou. PCs FTW (custom hardware :))

justthething84:

I dont know how mac users have anything to be smug about. Their machines are neither useful nor better than a PC. i dont even know why people bother buying them it just beats me. you spend more money on a mac and yet you dont get the compatibility you do as with a PC (not to mention you cant upgrade them).

whats wrong with mac users. i would say one reason theyd buy a mac is to be different from everyone else but why buy something to please others? i certainly dont see how you would please yourselves with a mac because i can only see problems with buying one (nothing can be installed on them cause no one makes anything for macs! - except the very, very few companies out there spending huge amounts of money just to fulfil a niche market (mac market)).

Seriously tell me something that a mac can do that a pc cant. I can give you reasons what a pc can give you that a mac cant, so why would I be wrong. dont give me the story that graphics artists use macs - because we all know pcs can do the same thing.

why doesnt apple turn macs into a PC like Dells and just sell them with windows installed? im sure theyd make a shit load of money that way (maybe even provide the option of having mac os installed on a partition).

i just dont get macs im sorry. no ones ever pointed out to me why they are any different and why they appeal to anyone. i know some rta offices use them at their tellers (but dont use them in administration (which is where most of the action happens)).

Come on guys I put it to you: Give me a reason to buy a mac and spend more money on that then a PC. I ask for just ONE reason (and if its something a pc can do then forget it).

Mark Cowberg:

Drag a movie to the recycle bin/trash can from your hard drive and have it place the movie in the recycle bin/trash can while playing.

Setup-less install of programs (no need to run an installation program to install something).

Use a bulit-in unix terminal or ftp server.

Reinstall the OS without affecting any applications. Drag an application from one computer to other to make a copy and always have that copy work (no DLL's / dependencies / registry).

Run some very high quality mac software (iChat is far better than AIM and Mail.app far better than Outlook Express. May be a matter of taste, admittedly.

And I admit the Mac ads need a little more substance.

justthething84:

why would i delete something im using? you cant delete data that you are using. try removing a video clip you are watching off ur mac while ur watching it. if its deleted its gone lol. the install process is done once and is not even a problem. and you are using a unix terminal for? and ftp is widely available for pc. u can reinstall windows or even rollback to a previous state. how often do u drag an application from one computer to another? does the average person drag apps from on pc to another NO. and if we wanted to we just install it on another pc. as for high quality mac software that is a claim that is pretty pathetic as pcs have high quality software also, but i dont even know whyd u say something silly like that. high quality apps since when does the world run on macs i think im finally getting bored of the mac arguement as theres never been a reason to switch.

Karen:

Well you did ask for points on why Mac may preferable over a PC, you got them so stop complaining.

lenny k:

So just because you don't want to drag apps from one computer to another (of course copying or re-downloading the install program, running it, clicking "Next" a bunch of times and possibly rebooting is much more convenient than drag and drop) and YOU don't want to use a Unix terminal because you're a click and drool Windows kiddie, that means they are worthless?

I'll add that Macs come with dev tools like Python, Perl, PHP and Ruby. Macs are simple to use out of the box (if slightly different to Windows...the horror) and they have the more advanced UNIX-style tools if you want them as well.

Unfortunately the "Microsoft/MSN/Hotmail" generation can't appreciate this stuff cause they just don't know what they're missing.

Anyway use what you like but don't judge everyone else's needs on your narrow requirements and understanding, k?

justthething84:

i have a wide range of requirements that of which i wont bother to entertain you with. the simple fact is i cant stand the sight of an apple product.

Gianni Wise:

thats fine .. we all have our preferences - but it doesn't constitute an arguable reason why one product is functionally better than the other.

random_PC_Fan:

Play a game that was made within the last two years other than WoW.
Right Click.
Enuf said.

macguy:

My mac plays dozens of new games - some using Boot Camp and some playing in Native OSX.AOE3, SIms 2, Star Wars Lego, Star wars Empire at War all run on OSX and Boot camp is still the best way to run XP.

I right click on my Mac all the time with the Apple 2 button mouse. You need to research before you write.

Richie Eng:

Not a gamer so can't help you there.

As for right clicking, I can do that in one of 3 ways. Right click with a mouse with 2 buttons (easy), click while holding the control key, and of course tap a trackpad with 2 fingers. While I have 2 fingers on the trackpad, I'll also scroll left/right and up/down too. Now what?

ikyouCrow:

that's just a completely insane thing to do (the movie bit). i mean, why would you want to delete something you're still watching? and why in the world wouldn't you want the OS telling you you are about to delete something you're currently using?

there are lots of applications you can copy-and-run on PCs (i assume you are indeed refering to Linux as well and not just Windows bashing). on Windows, you don't need to install VLC or utorrent, but you do need an installer for apps that have to register libraries.

BTW, those apps that you copy-and-run on Mac OS actually "install" when you run them the first time. (see Photoshop issue below)

obviously Linux has these. Windows has a command prompt and an ftp server. surely you've heard of IIS...

i'd really like to see you re-install the Mac OS and have Photoshop, Aperture and the like "just work" without having to re-install them.

are you high? run Mac software? Mac software? 'Mac' software? "Mac" software? '"MAC"' software?


i do agree with you on the whole 'substance' thingee. the ads come across as really childish. like 'my dad is stronger than your dad' and not all dads are 'strong' enough to bend their backs being a plumber or something for the entire day.

Eric:

There are a lot of reasons macs a far superior then PC's. What is the standard fix for a PC??? REBOOT!! I have rebooted my mac 6 times in the last year. 2 times do to a power outage, 1 to take it to the apple store to have more memory added, 3 to install MAC OSX system upgrades. Another reason? How many viruses are there for the MAC? 2 and they are not really virsues per say you have to download the file through iChat then type in your password to install the file then go run the file what a bunch of crap if you do this you deserver it. Try running a PC on the internet for a week without antivirus, spyware, or any type of malware or firewall installed GOOD LUCK!!! Another reason? yes we pay more for the mac but it can work out of the box. Can you minimize your windows and have them show ACTIVE content while minizied no i think not. Windows Vista so called attemp at expose is horrible and again does not show active content. I can use expose to see what is happening with each window not a screenshot of when that button was pressed. Can you resinall the operating system leaving all data intact? I think not. Can you make PDF files right out of the box NO you need to go "BUY" software to do this. Can you make movies, DVD's, or have a good picture management software when you install windows NO!. Can you setup an FTP server in 2 clicks without downloading and installing software. Can you create webpages and upload them to a website without installing any software? (iWeb). When you install windows what can you really do with it? Get on the internet and play solitaire. When you install MAC OSX you can use it right out of the box. For the person that said the comment about no software being compatible for the MAC, I can do everything on my mac in a corporate environment that I can do from a PC AND! I am free from viruses. So unless you have used a mac or know about them you have no reason to say your opinion makes one product better then the other. This is simply my opinion and I am not saying that MAC is a better product or everything should switch to it There will always be a need for both. Why do some people by Chevy and some buy Fords. You wanted examples so there is some food for though there is plenty more where that came from if you want more!

csharper:

or just use free Ubuntu on the more flexible PC architecture..

DH:

a very important point often left out of PC vs Mac fights. PCs aren't the problem...Windows is. Running Ubuntu/Windows dual boot on a PC has worked great, spending most of my time on Ubuntu and switching to Windows when I want to use a webcam on Skype or if I don't want to look for a printer/camera driver.

macfromcanada:

This is something a PC can't do,
BE VIRUS AND MALWARE AND SPYWARE AND ETC. FREE
and, yes I can read your mind, you are going to say that my virus scan protects me, my spyware software protects me. It does, to all virusses it knows about, and has been updated to defend against. There will always be gaps in this type of protetion, such as a virus that is brand new, which happens all the time. You can even still get a virus if you hit download even if your software tells you not too, its called human error. Human error doesn't occur on a mac. Oh just so you know, so me something as good for the PC as Logic Pro

Not an idiot:

hmmm let's see... last time i checked, cubase, nuendo, ableton live and pro-tools are all better than logic pro and all run on both mac and windows. there is really no compelling reason (besides the snob-appeal) to own a mac for any purpose. They look great, and work great (for the most part), but so do my Windows PCs. I own both macs and PCs and the PCs get a lot more use. This day and age, the whole "easy-of-use" argument is a moot point, as both are insanely easy to use. Any moron can move a mouse and click on some things. Both platforms support drag-and-drop for pretty much anything. My Vista x64 PC has had absolutely ZERO issues to date (not even with drivers... it just works) and can run pretty much anything i throw at it. My mac, on the other hand, has driver issues with almost every printer i try to install, and just last week decided it was going to hang on the gray mac screen forever. I finally took it in to apple support and they had to reinstall the OS. haven't had to do that with any of my PCs yet. Most of the viruses, etc for Windows come from a) the fact that it would be stupid to waste effort writing a virus for a platform that nobody (by comparison) uses, and b) come in the form of trojans that slip by the dumbest of the crowd. The OS can't be blamed for software that people willingly (albeit stupidly) install on their machines.

When you can go to any major retail outlet and buy a piece of hardware (anything besides a harddrive, ram, speakers, printer) and have support for it on the mac, i'll be a bit more impressed. When one company controls the hardware and software together, they can dictate what runs and how. Something like Windows (or Linux) that will run well on an absolutely GIANT variety of hardware configurations and support them as well as it does deserves a LOT more credit.

Suk Sandy:

Dear,
I use both Mac and Windows and can tell you hundred of things; things that will make you feel the difference between appreciation and frustration. However, I just wish to point out only couple things.
User experience. Even your whole computing tasks could be well done with both systems but you will find so many small things that really make you happy, lots of times without a word to tell others who do not feel annoyance with Windows's nature. I don't know if your state of mind is OK with pressure to do or execute certain things in Windows. This is almost non-exist in the Mac. You will never know how salt tastes unless you put it in you mouth. I've tested both of them and I can tell you the Mac tastes a lot better. And this is, for me, the indispensable element besides getting your job done with other common tools. I thought I could tell you more about the reasons you should appreciate a Mac but I only pointed out one aspect. I'll try to continue next time, if I could.
Regards,
Suk S.

eldernorm:

"'windows movie maker' = 'iMovie'
'windows media player' = 'iTunes'"

YEP, right up there with
VW bug = BMW,
B&W tv = 52 inch Plasma tv,
115,000 virsus = 0 virsus,
ton-o-spyware = 0 spyware.

Yep, your pc can do everything. OH wait, iPhoto, iLife, wait, I have to stop laughing before I can go on.

en

Sodapop890:

Yes, it is trye that windows doesnt come with simple photoediting software, but with the price of a Mac you could spend $300 less for a PC of the same class and buy a simple photo editing program.

Also, there are no apple programs that can even touch windows media center. Media Center puts mac to shame with its usability and organization of media.

I own both Mac and PC, and i can say with confidence that there is nothing you can do on a mac that you cannot do on a pc.

I must admit that a mac (OS X) can be less cluttered than windows especially uninstalling programs, and the small touches throughout the OS make it nice. But windows can still do all that and more without the price through third party software. and if you are to lazy to spend an hour setting up your PC that it is justafiable to spen an unnesessary $200+ thats your problem.

The only reason to own a mac is for its case, but then you could just buy a custome case with the same appeal.

Rubarb:

Well said!
Windows movie make and windows media player are just a joke.
Because I have clients with both platforms, I used to try to give reasons for using a PC for certain tasks. Not any more. I have just given up. Windows is the most useless O.S. ever.
I develop 70% of my work for PCs but I do it all on a Mac and test it on a PC.
When so called experts say Windows is better than OSX, I just laugh out aloud. It's so, so, so obvious to anyone who has used macs that they leave PCs in the 80s.
Did I mention, DLLs, Registry, Spyware, Viruses, really bad mouse handling, awful screen rendering, font nightmares, SP1/SP2, Vista(HA!), uninstall, Java comaptablility, 20¢ keyboards, MS reliant, Zune...
I remember a survey from a few years ago that said 99% of switchers from PC to Macs DO NOT want to go back but 99% of Mac users currently using PCs WANT to go back to Macs.
PC Fanboys, Keep 'em coming, it's really funny.

blech:

I've used macs in the past for college, and I personally don't like them. It's about preferences.

I used to have itunes installed on my computer, and I didn't like it. I prefer Winamp and the Zune software over iTunes.
Macs are pretty and all, but why should you have to take it to a shop to upgrade?

If I want to get a faster computer, I just buy the parts to make it faster and install it immediately. With a mac, you're probably going to end up buying a whole new computer...

As for Viruses... not many are really targeted towards apple because it's not common enough to be worth infecting. I haven't even gotten a virus in two years! Even if I get something, I know how to get rid of it within 5 minutes... not a big deal to me.

Goldwing5000:

Have you ever try that awful thing called windows movie maker. I had been using i-movie before that but this time I didn't have access to a Mac so it ended up taking me a few hours, something tat would of taken half an hour.
Also i-tunes cant be put in the same category as "windows media player" because i-tunes isn't just a media player it's also a music and movie shop plus podcasts which is something your sissy media player cant do.
ALSO The Mac ads are some of the best and funniest ads I've seen in ages.

Tin:

I don't get that ad... What are they selling?

Why don't they actually show some stuff that make Macs better? Oh, probably because there's nothing particularly special that would make me spend thousands on it.

mattmuir:

And would recommend a Mac any day. All the applications are aware of each other, share information seamlessly, and don't freeze. And despite the common misbeliefs, Macs aren't expensive. A Mac Mini, bluetooth keyboard & mouse, and screen could set you back as little as $1000. And for that price it would do one hell of alot more than a PC, with no constant drive spinning.....

justthething84:

mattmuir can you upgrade your mac hardware seamlessly *giggle*

Anonymous:

justthething84, why don't you go do another virus scan.

*giggle*

justthething84:

mac = crap

*giggle*

Anonymous.:

You try doing anything other than a RAM upgrade (a thing you can upgrade on a mac) and not spend at least an hour looking for compatible drivers etc.

sum d00d:

True, true. But you would have to keep in mind that all applications for Macs are made for one particular combination of hardware and software. There are no variables and compatibility issues to contend with.
The closest a PC would come to this is the integration of MS Office, Explorer, Outlook and whatever other software MS has thought should be integrated.

But if you want your nanna to send you photos and emails, get a Mac. At least you won't be over her house every weekend showing her how to use it.

Renegade:

I agree with VannA
They say that they do fun stuff like music and phtos and movies but PCs do this just as good as macs. But PCs go an extra mile by sporting another fun feature GAMES and not just the two or three that mac support.

justthething84:

is the whole point of this mac stir debate to advertise macs or what

macs make me sick lol

Island in the Net:

I love the way the PC people defend an OS that with every version rips off the mac. Windows Vista = OS X clone.

nobody:

And I love that Mac users are too ignorant to know that OS10 rips off of linux. All your fancy OS10 features were featured on linux window managers before apple ever put them into the mac.

ripplebutt:

Actually a lot of the fancy OSX features came from NeXTstep, which wasn't ripped off from linux because, uh, it didn't exist yet.

steve_Anonymous:

I thought it was a debate about hardware more then software. I mean PC’s you don’t have to run windows if you choose not to, but with Mac’s now being able to run windows who cares really? But a PC is easier to upgrade

jail:

I grew up + out of the pc v mac fight 10 years ago - geez...they still milk it?!// both platforms have great elements depending on what your into. Main MAC downside (apart from games:) has been the prohibitive co$t.

jail:

p.s. Apart from losing sight of the marketing game as stated above - every one knows the Suit is the Mac - they know it + we know it.

Steve:

If you want to play games, you should buy a console. If you want viruses, you should buy PC.

media_lush:

with the latest intel macs you can now have a super fast (faster than just about any PC) PC should you want - kind of like the best PC is, er, a mac.
When Micfrosoft bought out Office 2004 for the mac it was actually a superior product to it's own PC version (this is backed up by numerous articles at the time)...and of course it does spreadheets....better.
FTR I have never known a mac person ever go back to a PC but over the years just about all my PC friends have switched to a mac (it's what we mac users just seem to do by proxy)...the killer thing that made them choose was nothing really to do with the OS per se but the fact that whenever I visited with my laptop and compared notes "their" laptop always seemed to be getting slower and slower because of all the bugs it got. A recent article said that if you added all the virus protection upgrades from Microsoft since they introduced XP they would total 2.7GB's!! - these were JUST the virus ones!

I've been using macs since they came out over 20 years ago and have NEVER EVER got a computer bug or virus.........'nuff said really!

Tris:

"with the latest intel macs you can now have a super fast (faster than just about any PC) PC should you want - kind of like the best PC is, er, a mac."

This is the part that confuses me. Wasn't I told over and over again at the Apple store, and online that there was a "Mhz myth" and that Macs under the old hardware were really much faster than the PC regardless of the specs?

Now they use intel chips and they're faster again? Someone should clear this up, since the nice folks in the Apple store seem to stare blankly when asked this question... in fact the whole "Mhz myth" idea seems to have just faded away.
I wonder...

davidrhoskin:

The old macs used the PowerPC platform, a RISC design, which is faster than a CISC architecture, such as X86, running at the same clock speed. RISC instructions are simpler, but consume fewer clock cycles, which, due to most compilers, etc, making little use of the many of the 'complex' instructions available on CISC chips, results in greater efficiency for most tasks.

media_lush:

and if my last comments weren't enough - this site just about sums up why mac users will never switch to PC

John:

I like the new Macs because they offer greater choice. Macs can boot OS X, Linux and XP/Vista all on the one Mac/Intel machine. Consumers can choose what OS and what apps they want to use. They all run natively. If I could afford a new computer it would be the new 24inch iMac. It is a beautifully designed machine. I think Apple has good reason to brag. They are cool.

Feldwebel Wolfenstool:

I just hate the thought of paying so much MORE $$$ for the same generic hardware everyone else uses. All that extra money just to feed Steve Jobs ego, I guess....

john:

“Can’t Macs do spreadsheets?”

!!!!!

Man, That is so funny!!!

:)

Average IT guy:

You are obviously misinformed, and a bit dense apparently.
Excel has been running on Macs as far back as I can remember.

Ignorance can be fixed, but stupidity is forever.

I wish you PC centric closed minded nerds would at least arm yourself with FACTS before you start bashing something that you obviously know nothing about.

I am a tech support IT person.
I use both Macs and PC's everyday, I can run both very well thank you. I use PC's at work, but when I come home... forget that crap! Why would I run such a painfully unstable platform at home, and risk losing personal data that means something to me. I can't even count how many XP machine I have had to fix over the past few years because of OS failure, typically Blue Screen of Death sort of crap becuase a driver puked.

Do a little research folks, and save yourself the embaressment of looking like a fool.

Windows is what it is. It is certainly not the end all.
The European community is dumping Windows for Government use like a hot potato.

Can you spell LINUX?

Wake up and smell the future, lots of IT guys are switching to Macs, and they ARE NOT more expensive than comparably configured PC's, that is a myth.

peacemaker:

RE: can't MACS run spreadsheets?

Go back and look at the original post, that is what his mother asked him after watching the mac vs pc ad..... its quite funny really.....perhaps this "internet war" between the OS is a little passe in 2008.

Actually, I'd like to change the paramaters of the current "A" vs. "B" vs. "C" thinknig that seems to pervade not only in technology, but also in arts. I mean if you go to youtube you'll see heaps of posts saying "so and so sang that better or she is better.

Proposed new model? You can like A, B, and C. If that wasn't too hard to incorporate, then you could consider, I like much of A, B and C, but there are things which I'd change about..... wait for it............. A, B and C.

Come on peoples, Jobs and Gates have burried their hatchets (at least in public anyway) We can burry ours, try to stand outside of yourself and think about what you'd think of 2 people trying to proove if VHS was better than BETA, its quite "petty" and small minded really. I think people outside the tech area would probably think the same about this mute argument.

Tony:

Dells are more expensive than Macs these days. The top of the line Mac Pro is $3000. A similarly equipped Dell is over $4200. Yea, its a $1200 difference. Also, Apple is using far more open standards today (and uses open source) and Microsoft is all about proprietary standards. Who needs that?

Angus:

The cult of Apple lives on. Apple is about as closed as it gets. Don't let the based on Linux crap fool you. I want a machine that will grow with me, and not be a waste of my investment. With Apple I buy something that is not cutting edge now, and is limited to a very small, mediocre hardware base, and throw it away in a couple of years. Or I can buy a PC, expand it as I see fit, and as I can afford. It keeps pace with me, not lags behind after 6 months. Watching the Apple ads is like going to an Amway convention. The believers believe, and the sane shake their head in bewilderment.

linqkster:

I have macs in my home that I still use that are over 4 years old and still running, and doing everything I need. How many people still have PCs that have not died and are being not being used as door stops?

raindog:

Four years, You hero!! Put on your best skivvy and award yourself a green elephant stamp immediately!!

Get a clue there are plenty of ancient Windows 9x boxes out there still doing what they were intended to do. Many students dream of leaving their current MS/Intel box for one less than 4 years old.

Why soil a good fanatical rant with a moments research!

Audio-MIDI:

Oh?
My current Mac is almost 10 years old and _still_ running strong.

dave:

Great to hear they're still pumping out 68000 software *just for you*!

Or are you running PPC software on a 68000 emulator?

Or maybe an Intel emulator on top of a PPC emulator on a 68000 machine?

And have you got an OSX emulator for your ten year old OS yet? That's some serious support you're getting.

stefcep2:

I have been using computers for 20 years now:PC's (win98Se.XPPro, Linux) Macs (68k,PPC no intel)and Amiga. The Amiga by far and to this day has the best balance of offering power and control to the user, but ofcourse its hardware is now dated and software support is nearly dead. I use a PC now and won't got to Mac because they become obsolete far quicker than PC's, because Apple chooses to make its hardware obsolete every 3-4 years by not supporting it in the latest OS, despite the hardware being perfectly fine to run the lates OS upgrade. The hardware companies for printers cameras scanners then follow suit eg you can't buy a printer unless you have OSX, and OSX won't run on anything thats 4 or more years old: why? Even a simple encyclopedia, will run on Win98Se with a PII but not unless you have OSX and a G4 on Mac> If you have any SCSI or ADB peripherals, well they can't work on new Macs. How long before $5000dual G4's are no longer supported (if they still are, i don't know, can't keep with Apples minimum hardware rqeuirements)> Apple milks its users with the its eye candy tarted unix, who think they are so cool because its different. WOW I have a CLI shell, WOW I have a dock, WOW I can run more than one program at a time. Windows vista=OS X=AmigaOS circa 1993 minus the 10 second boot time

tom:

"‘windows movie maker’ = ‘iMovie’

‘windows media player’ = ‘iTunes’"


No, No, NO! You have obviously never used the products.

As for the ads-- I like them; some people don't. Why would you want to limit yourself to a proprietary OS like Windows, when, at a comparable price, you can get Windows AND OS X, which is about half Open-sourced BSD UNIX--much safer and more relaible and BETTER apps. quality-wise?

Harold:

Your headline made the point. Get Your mom a PC and she will be fine.

Tony:

I'd like to add one more thing. Mac OS X does not confuse consumers with a whole bunch of different versions. Lets compare Leopard to Vista. There will be only one version of Leopard to get (as with all versions of OS X) and it is good for 32bit and 64bit applications. Vista has a 32bit edition, and then it has a 64bit edition, and then it seems to have another two versions that I'm not sure what the diffference is, even I am confused. On Vista, 32bit apps woun't run as good with the 64bit and visa versa. Not true with Leopard, there is no penalty, as both 32bit and 64bit apps will run native and at full speed. But all your mother has to know is, "it just works".

Easy speed:

Isn’t it just great when things just work?

PaulG:

PC users fool themselves that their PC's do as good as job as the Mac's iLife suite or media apps in general but the fact is the Mac runs rings around the PC in this area right out of the box. Sure eventually you might get similar though kludge-filled functionality that makes you jump through hoops to get anything close to the same result but life's too freaking short.

However I too wish Apple would simply state what makes the Mac better and IN FACT there are too many things to count and a wealth of material there if they but wanted to go that route. But Apple has never been as crass as the PC world who stumble about in their geeky, registry flawed, DLL hell and security joke world and don't know any better. They really don't know just how bad their systems are. Many will hate the Mac but have never used one for any length of time. Real geniuses these guys and gals.

Frankly if they're that stupid to have Gates and Ballmer's (fat assed aging nerds who are completely unworthy to man the biggest software company in the world - the world deserves far better than these Keystone Cops unnovative goofballs) uninspired tech solutions, I say let them suffer and pile on the future grief (Vista?) for their lack of real (OS X Leopard) vision.

enanton:

You supid PC users, in my book PC stands for "Piece of Crap" and XP "Xtra Problems". PCs just plain suck, with all your spy ware and viruses. The MAC commercials are great, you PC users dont get it because it hits too close to home. Oh, yeah the PC is so great but they're going out of their way to copy everything in MAC OS X and put it in sucky Vista, piss off you losers and get a real machine..... A MAC!!!!

raylward102:

Fact
PC holds +/- 90percent of the market share. If you are in the business of creating viruses/hacks and exploits that will benfit you possibly fianancially, why would you go after the small 10percent market share vs thw whole 90 percent. Think about it. If the tables were turned with the whole markaet share bit, it would be mac with the bad rap. No one is intersted in exploiting the few mac users that exist. Get a life!

fortyseventeen:

Here's why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GEDy042iNM&feature=PlayList&p=15731227A3AD7DC4&index=7

Although the video is pretty cheesy and overdramatic, the story it describes really did play out in 1983. Windows dominated the market because (among other reasons) they got their product out faster and marketed it better, not because of any real superiority in design or functionality. Now, with 90% of all personal computers running Windows, the market is oblivious to the thought of alternate OSes.

As for security, you're absolutely right that there will be more viruses for Macs if the 'big switch' comes, but FAR less than the >100k that plague Windows machines today. Mac OS X was built from the ground up with security in mind, from the insanely secure BSD/MACH-based kernel to the OS-level authentication mechanisms. Microsoft has only in recent years given much focus to security, and are struggling to keep up. Thus, although Vista makes huge improvements on XP in terms of security, potential viruses are already being passed around in pirate forums only a week after its launch. Macs could never host a crime market of that kind of magnitude.

muffbuster:

Anyone who thinks that Windows Movie Maker is the equivalent of iMovie has obviously NEVER used iMovie.

I work at a high school where Macs are the minority... all told, we have about 75 PCs and 14 Macs in our labs and library. Funny thing is that I have NEVER had a PC run out of space because too many kids have loaded video projects on the hard drives... because they're all using the Macs and iMovie. Last year, I was cleaning off hard drives all of the time on the Macs because so many kids were downloading and working on their movie projects...

Did I mention that the Macs were 700 MHz eMacs and the PCs were 2.6 GHz P4 boxes? How many geeks like us would choose a 700 MHz machine over a 2.6 GHz machine to get *real* work done?

Try it, you'll love it. And tweaked, no one loves a hater.

Stewie:

One of my clients is a "retired" electrical engineer who got into computers through the back door many years ago. He now does support work for three schools , 1) with 80 Macs, 2) with a mix of 20 macs + 40 PC's , 3) with 60 PC's. He kept logs of the original costs of equipment and hours spent at these schools maintaining /upgrading the above . This is also from about three years ago.The costs of the original macs were about 30% higher than the PC's but the time spent maintaining the networks and fixing hardware etc of schools 2) and 3) - remember school 2) had a higher proportion of PC's, eventually saw their costs balloon so that their budgets for IT were far higher than originally forecast.This is a common pattern. The initial cost may be lower for cheap crappy PC's but their long term cost may be much higher. One of the things that always gets overlooked in these PC's vs Macs debate is the TCO and ROI - total cost of ownership and return on investment , Macs being lower for the former and higher on average for the latter and this is according to independent studies by companies like American PC Magazine etc. Modern macs such as the Intel iMac are also now very competitively priced when stacked up against a big - brand similarly configured PC. Apple doesn't want to get into the cheap PC market nor do I blame them.I use both. I have a PC ( games mostly plus a few apps that I can't run on my Mac ) ) at home alongside a Mac and I do prefer OSX . Its just easier to setup and install stuff as well as work on in general. When I sell both of these machines ( within the next year hopefully ) I will buy an Intel mac and put both OSX and XP or Vista on it and run the OS that I need to run at the time. XP booting to Parallels is apparently very good and very fast running on all hardware natively. By the way , I hate these ads. They suck.
Stewie

Areyoukiddingme:

"Did I mention that the Macs were 700 MHz eMacs and the PCs were 2.6 GHz P4 boxes? How many geeks like us would choose a 700 MHz machine over a 2.6 GHz machine to get *real* work done?"

You cant compare intel/amd X86 processors with IBM/MOTOROLA PowerPC G4/G5 processors its like compareing grapefruit to bread.. you just cant do it.. they have different instruction sets.

As for the no right mouse click on macs, buy a cheap $15 usb mouse and it will solve that problem, while your at it throw out the mac keyboard as well.. crap, utter crap.

The only good mac i have seen is when it was turned into a thin client connected to a microsoft server Via Remote desktop (RDP) the only good thing a mac can do.

As for the whole mutlimedia thing for macs , go buy a new AmigaOne running os4, craps allover a mac... lets not forget the movie Jurassic Park and tvs series babalon 5 and seaquest dsv was created using amigas made in 1985.. can you say the same thing for macs or pcs for that matter!!

raindog:

You offer this as a reply to a 63 day old post?

Seriously! There are groups that can help! look in the front section of your yellow pages, before its too late!

Cowicide:

Wow... still seeing myth after myth perpetrated here by people who don't do the current research to back up thier fat mouths. Hey... in case you haven't heard... Mac hardware is now less costly than Wintel machines. Also, the cost of time & 3rd party support you are forced to deal with in the Wintel enviroment makes Macs FAR less costly over even the short term even IF they did cost more out of the box (which the now DO NOT).

And... as someone who uses both platforms... it's painfully obvious that Apple could be far more aggressive in it's ads to show how seriously lame Wintels machines are for productivity compated to Macs.

I think Apple should fire whoever is making these lame ads and really go on the attack with the truth... Your Wintel machines wastes your time... AND LOTS OF IT.

Oh.. and BTW, there are craploads of games on the Mac and if you are a hardcore gamer and need more... get a PS3 or XBox... or boot into Windows on your Mac and play games that are Windows only.

jbelkin:

Clearly the ads are NOT intended for anyone with 25 miles of this web page. It is intended for the "general" audience who could not identity the hard drive from a RAM module and would have trouble actually telling you without hesitation what is what from the two.

With that said, computer ads are tough because as most people have used them, they realize they are not miracle machines - it's not the Jetsons. Who is Microsoft fooling with the drawings of kids dreaming and everything will come true using Microsoft products.

Yes, every computer on earth can be made to bend (or customized) to bend to everyone's will if you have the know-how but most people are stumped by what to do if presented with a DOS window ... that what the ads are for ... that there is an alternative.

That you don't have to deal with 110,000 plus virii, trojan or malware - PC users, you have to face facts - for WHATEVER reason, the Pc has lots of gaping holes and an interest in people exploiting it. That is NOT to say the Mac is 100% impervious forever but up to know, it's the sleepy fat PC tourist who wonders why he got pickpocketed and the US Army Ranger is not attacked ... sometimes the truth hurts. If you know how to keep your machine clean and functioning - great but some people don't know what to do ... it's like buying a Range Rover or a Lexus - Rane Rover are cool looking but with 480 JP Power problems versus 100 for the Lexus, it's no wonder people buy more Lexus'.

Like all ads, there is some puffery but of course, if they weren't actually true - some Pc/windows maker would jump all over them.

For instance, the virus ad says you have 114,000 but not for me (in essence) which is true, macs cannot "catch" Pc viruses - pass them along - sure, but not "catch" them.

As for moviemaker, photo, etc ... the fafcts are that ilife is the difference between driving a car and building your own scooter ... that's the honest truth. You don't have to take my word - just look at EVERY review EVER from even PC magazines and how they have trouble getting MS' movies editor or even photo esditor to work correctly - that is why there is Picassa because the Windows thing is crap ... but again, if you don't want to do that with your PC, it's not a problem - but it is a feature that is night+ a week on the Mac side versus the PC side ... and that's all the ads are saying.

As for games, it's the same thing - yes, there are more games on the PC side but that's because the Pc will accept any game design from DOS to XP while the Mac has stricter user and design standards ... PC gamers also have to deal with drivers and patches (one reason why MS came up with the XBox - essentially a Pc with fewer/less patch/driver issues) ... so if you're willing to deal with that to play games - great.

Of course, as they are Intel macs, only macs can play EVERY mac & Pc game ... along with linux ...

Martin Perchure:

If PC / Windows users put a fraction of the effort they now expend defending Windows, into researching the Mac to become informed with accurate information, everything would change for them and the computer industry in no time.

The FUD Microsoft has fed the masses for more than a decade is still top of mind and regurgitated continuously as the PC defence. The fact that they are no longer true or more likely never were true, never seems to occur to these people.

Once they convert to the Mac, it's a history of dogmatic ignorance they are embarrassed to recall. Having been enlightened by Mac users continuously one day they go, wait this isn't the usual lies Microsoft tells, this is truth. PC users are so indoctrinated into the mind set that everyone is a partisan liar, that defensive reactions must be overcome in order to wake up.

lantzn:

I've been professionally using Macs and PCs since 1987. I've heard ALL your PC v. Mac arguments. Apple has put an end to the "truthful" ones, one by one. The last 2 strongest were games and price. On the current Mac running Intel processors you CAN run your games, through native WinXP or virtualization. This fact means that Macs are now the most versatile machines on the planet. They can run just about any OS and it's software natively. Now about price, the new Mac Pro towers when compared to an equivalent Dell is about $450 cheaper, that's not a typo. Most people don't build computers and count their labor as free, so don't even go there.
Sure PCs can do just about anything a Mac can do but until you've honestly used a modern Mac you'll never know what it means to do the job and enjoy it without the OS, apps or virus hassles.
Macs just do it better.

http://tinyurl.com/n26ge

Louis Wheeler:

Just some minor points.

1. It's kerfuffle, not gefuffle. That is, a squabble or scuffle. British slang, now promoted by the Wall Street Journal.

2. Apple is doing product differentiation in the ads. It is defining itself in the Consumer space-- easy to use right out of the box, not boring, not geeky but technologically impressive, life affirming, easily connecting to the world (cameras, etc.), but doesn't get virus'. Since the majority of Americans, let alone the rest of the world, are still not comfortable with computers, this is a wise position for Apple to take. Especially since when pressed, a Mac can do all the boring stuff, too. But, if you only want to do the boring stuff, why get a Mac? And if you have a life, why get a PC?

There are many more people in the world with lives than are geeks.

3. The PC Geeks are offended by the ads not because of their technical content, but because it places them in a bad light. They are projected as inept, boring, strange, unfriendly and problematic-- just like their computers. No wonder that they take the ads as a personal offense.

APEX:

So, the PC is as good as the Mac? Clearly, you have not used a Mac in your life! Probably you can do similar things with both the the intuitive interface and user experience is absolutelly different. Besides, no viruses or spyware or other malware with a Mac.

Johnbo:

Its not about mac or pc, its about the ecosystem that surrounds the OS and hardware. PC's are undeniably 'worse' in OS stability and hardware longevity, but are the central pillar to massive business and social systems. The apple indisputably has stronger software and hardware, and has its own, smaller but just as lively, ecosystem. My entire business is founded on the Mac platform and I am creating networks of film/video postproduction around the mac and Final Cut. I rely on setting up a laptop and have it running Final Cut for years with zero tech support, and networking editors via broadband and swapping external hard drives with each other, all with zero IT infrastructure maintenance costs(we probably process 5 terabytes of video a year). The culture around the PC is strong, but the PC itself is weak, and like migrating to a new country, once you begin to engage in the culture surrounding the Mac, that is when the strength of the mac really pays off by freeing you up to take quantum leaps in your computer effectiveness, provided you can overcome your temporary feelings of powerlessness on the new system and be emotionally prpared to throw away some of the computer knowledge accumulated in the PC world.

matt:

are you people kidding me?

1. for those who complain that Macs are SO expensive... have you actually compared lately?

2. iMovie and iTunes are FAR easier to use and more pleasant overall than Windows Movie Maker or Media Player. plus, the integration between iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, Garageband and iWeb are incomparable. nobody else has anything close. (and, by the way, those are ALL included free with Mac OS X).

3. all those crazy claims about no viruses, spyware, or pop-ups on Macs... they're true. (but i do love how PC users get all defensive about this!)

perhaps the ads aren't the greatest representation of a Mac. (they actually CAN do spreadsheets too!) but they do what they're trying to do... they show how much more simple things are on a Mac.

i was a PC guy for 24 years and i very hesitantly decided that i'd just give the Mac thing a try. that was five years ago... i've never even thought about going back.

oh... and for all you PC users out there... i truly hope you enjoy the forthcoming Windows version of OS X.

JV:

16 year mac user. Just bought a PC to test web sites in Explorer browser, and other PC versions of browsers. Paid $299 for the tower, very nicely loaded. Here's my experience going from Mac to PC...keyboard/mouse? Complete piece of crap, both of them, worth $1 each. The actual computer is so cheaply made, the design, insides, everything is junk. So, my conclusion on price/quality is Macs cost more, but they are worth more, plain and simple. They are made with care, and attention to design and engineering. Sturdy, beautiful, and no skimping on materials. You get what you pay for.

More disturbing, is when I tried to setup my HP laserjet that's on my network. On my macs, I simply hit "add printer", and there are all the printers on my network in a list. Done.

On the PC, I had to go locate the IP number, the port it was on, download a new driver. It took me 2 days, no joke, to figure out that's what I really was supposed to do. Then, about 5 times a week, I get an annoying thing popping up saying something has to be downloaded - java something, virus something, MS updates, it's insane. Almost every day!

Not to mention the type on the screen looks like 1985, slightly jagged, simplistic looking text.

I am spoiled by my Macs. I am so proud to buy one, so excited to open the boxes. I would pay whatever apple asks for them, because I feel it's money well spent.

I was not impressed with Windows XP. Seems unfinished to me.

neptuna:

I like the ads. And I agree with the Work vs Home concept. Why buy a PC for the home that does absolutely nothing out of the box, but you have to pay tonnes of money for additional software (unless you're a pirate, which is not even in the question here), when you can just buy a Mac, which does everything the average home user wants, out of the box.

Zac:

As some one who has used both Macs and PCs, is a computer science major, is a gamer, and knows his way around both operating systems rather well, I wouldn't spend money on a Windows machine, at least as things stand today. It is just my opinion, and I hate how these things get blown out of proportion all the time, but the bottom line for me is that the Mac platform is much less of a hassle.

This covers a lot of ground, but I find the interface more intuitive while remaining more efficient (less steps to get the job done), without the need to worry about viruses and other security concerns. When I am on a Mac I can get my work done in half the time and it will be twice as enjoyable, and that is worth a lot of money to me.

The only worthwhile advantage I have found in the Windows platform is a larger software library, but that is an issue less often then one would expect. Almost all major programs are available for Macs, or at the least a worthwhile equivalent is. The only times when software library seems to be an issue is with niche business software (enterprise, architects, real estate, to name a few) and, of course, with games. Personally, there have been more than a few games that I wish were out for my Mac, but gaming is less of a priority than my day to day computing, which I find, is greatly improved on the Mac platform. Now with the advent of Boot Camp and Parallels Desktop, Mac users who desire particular pieces of the Windows software library can have their cake and eat it too. To my eyes at least, the reasons to use Windows have evaporated entirely.

Well, there is one more reason not to get a Mac, price. Now compared to a Dell, HP, Sony, or similarly branded computer with similar specs, a Mac has about the same price. I think Macs get an unfair reputation as being pricey because they don't make budget computers. That doesn't mean their computers are over priced. If you get a Dell with the same stuff, the price will be about the same. However, if you are the sort of person who builds his (or her) own computer from parts, then you can end up with a computer that is significantly better priced than a computer from and manufacturer. You will not be able to install OS X (legally) on this machine. So if you are a penny-pincher who can build his (or her) own machine, or if you find all you want from your computer is provided by the sort of bargain-basement configuration that Apple won't give you, then I accept the price argument. If you spend $1000 or more on your computers, and you don't build them yourself, do yourself a favor and look at a Mac.

Larry:

All I can report is what my colleagues in the office are saying (I'm the only Mac user right now). They absolutely love the Apple ads and nod their heads knowingly about the shortcomings of Windows presented. There isn't a day that goes by without somebody carping about the latest malware slowing down their machine, problems with applications that are too complicated to use personally at home. Two of my colleagues are in the market for a new machine and both have said they will consider the Mac this time around because they've had it with Windows. They all run and use iTunes on their Windows machines and often remark how easy it is to use. I swear-to-god I never make any comments unless I'm asked and I'm being asked lots of questions about the Mac these days.

Readers of this article fail to realize that these ads are not directed at the technically minded denizens of computer web sites who, as the article says, will endlessly argue the minutest detail of the pros and cons. These ads are directed at the everyday schmuck who suffers daily under the yoke of the cruel joke that is Windows.

Biff Frank:

Louis Wheeler, if it's not too challenging, keep the propaganda to a minimum in future.

1a. Gefuffle is an accepted etymological form of the word. You must be new here, welcome to the highly versatile English language.

1b. APC is an Australian PC title, not the Wall Street Journal. Do try to keep up.

2. Apple is not displaying coherent product differentiation. It has not shown why the Mac is indeed superior to the PC. Let's be clear that 'PC' is not synonymous with 'Windows'. That said, considering Macs can now also run Windows, they can indeed catch viruses. Quick, run for the hills.

PCs are not difficult to use out of the box and you do not need to be a geek to use them. 'Boring' is an empty and subjective opinion, however, it is not a terrible choice, as it provides for less distractions. The ambiguous terms "technologically impressive, life affirming, easily connecting to the world" are little more than empty buzzwords that can be applied to both Mac and PC. A phone, even.

The Mac is much the same as a regular computer, built from the same bits. If one brand of bits gives you more shits and giggles over another, that's your subjective choice. Don't go slopping it on everyone else.

"But, if you only want to do the boring stuff, why get a Mac? And if you have a life, why get a PC?"

I'm not sure one could be any less pretentious than what you've just demonstrated. It seems the ads are correct in portraying Mac users as typically obnoxious.

3. Generally when personal offenses are projected onto someone, it's only logical they are to be taken as such; particularly when they are untrue. Nonetheless, geeks, both Mac and PC alike, are used to being mocked and put in bad light.

You imply that Mac Geeks and PC Geeks are completely different in terms of geekiness; just so you know, they are not. Geeks are geeks.

However, you are wrong on your main point here. The reason is because the advertisements are technically incorrect. A Mac proclaiming only it can do things a PC can also do is grossly misleading; much like your ignorant self.

Dan Warne:

The ad campaign is really about mac os x vs windows... After all, a Mac is now effectively a PC and can even catch Windows...

Raindog:

So the best mac can offer is to babble on about what a PC cant. Not much of a sales pitch is it?

10 minutes playing devils advocate back at mac HQ would soon tell them they'd be better off doing the one thing has ever given them market penetration. Selling them over-priced white walkman thingys.

Macs were and always will be the novelty for those that would rather fork out an extra gorilla than spend 10 minutes to customise a config file.

Mac needs something more than reinforcing the fact windows sucks, to make their yuppy desk furniture appear relevant or value for money.

Alex:

I wouldn't say that Macs are the same as PCs, there are still a huge amount of hardware differences internally. The logic boards only changed slightly when moving from PowerPC chips.

I used a PC for all of my life, got through three of the damn things (the last one costing nearly £1300, and needing to be formatted 4 times). I still use that machine and it's slow as hell, despite being a dual P4, yabba yabba yabba...

Still, each to their own. PCs are fantastic if you aren't a UNIX nut and want to make your machine run it's fans in reverse, but for everything else Macs are just simply better (that's coming from an old skool PC user/recently converted Mac user).

Personally though, I think the ads are actually very successful. Right now I can think of 8 people (there's probably more) who have switched since the 'get a Mac' ads were released.

computer user:

What a bunch of useless wankers you all are.

Quit whining and either get some work done or go out and play with the other kids on the block.

Mac can do everything a Windows computer can do and more.
Windows can do everything a Mac computer can do and more.

There.

Ya happy now?

Now have a cookie and some milk and stop watching porn.

Gone:

If you approach the computing world through rose colored iGlasses then its easy to pull out arguments like 'a mac is cheaper now than a top end dell'.

What needs to be taken into account is the simple fact that nowadays a Mac is pretty much just a more-stylish looking mid-range PC.

So stop pulling out the trite 'A Mac is teh awesome AND cheaper than a Dell (which is made in a factory located somewhere in Hell by non-unionised chinese vampire slave labour)' argument. or at least add the lower end hardware and compulsory $600 odd warranty that you'll need because unlike PCs you cant get normal people to fix em.

Now you are playing in PC hardware land, learn to read specs before making gross generalisations.

'Steve Jobs said the Power PC chip was ubah so my Mac rocks your PC' don't fly as an argument anymore.

Victor Shen:

HO GOOOOOD!!!! You people!!!! You just can't stop whinning about who's better do you? I hate macs, I hate pcs. GROW UP!!!! And buy a mac of course!!

Britton Stanfill:

I don't care to flame. I personally have used Macs for about 20 years, I have used OS X since it came out. I have PC laptops, I like them. I do however perfer OS X, also the experience with media is better on macs. I know you can do the same stuff on a PC, but you can do it easier, quicker, and more elegantly on a macintosh then you can on a PC. The iLife software package is wonderfully efficient, and a joy to use.

Some of the guys have commented on the fact that Macs no longer cost more, its true. The price on macs have dropped, and they are compeititively priced, also in my experience, the parts apple uses are highier quality then pc competitors.(generally speaking)

I invite all of the people out there to try a mac.

Matt:

Uh, Gone... we're talking about identical specs, or at least as near as we can get. Go price a Dell Precision workstation with the same hardware as the Mac Pro. It'll be between $500 and $1000 more expensive, every time, with the same hardware.

Bob Nowland:

A Mac is a Pc.
A Pc is a Pc.
Pc originally stood for Programme Counter not Personal Computer so stop the fuss and use what you want to use.
It really isn't worth the time of day about what is better and faster, it's more about choice!

R. Dib:

So... Apple puts the finger on your sore spot and it hurts.

Poor boy!

Havent you realized that ...
Maybe it hurts because it is true?

Angus:

Phew. Passion is a great thing, but Mac vs PC can't really be so black and white. I've used both professionally for nearly 20 years, and I certainly prefer my Mac experiences. Certainly a current model Mac seems one of the best value, best built and most versatile platforms around - for most users. By all means be passionate about your preferred platform but at least make sure you fully understand the opposing one before slinging obcenities. Quite a bit of aggressive ignorance still out there it seems. And for those of you who felt it necessary to be get personal... um, why?

Oh, and the ads. Well they do give me a gigle, and I can appreciate what they are trying to do but maybe they should have stressed that they can do all the boring stuff AND all the interesting stuff. It's a tough subject.

In both hardware and software everything about a Mac feels, to me, considered. It's good design. But design does not matter to some people, and that should be fine too. What we really need is for the myths to be busted so people can make an informed decision and buy what's best for them. We should all be thankfull that we still have some choice.

Tom:

Admittedly i dont know macs that well as i have never used one. I have used personal computers (PC) and i admit there are some not so nice things in there, e.g. viruses, spyware and bad stuff that nobody likes apart from the hackers. BUT, some people prefer the challenge of PCs. Note that MACs are meant for work, more for businesses i can admit that. But for people who prefer the challenge of PCs, their hardware and software, that is the way to go for them. Pardon me, but people who are more simple minded would go for the MACs because they are so much simpler to use. The programs required for businesses do not require a high IQ to use as it is fairly easy to learn. However, for those who prefer the challenge of PCs in their orginality, there have been programs made to support them during their work. Macs are for the more simple minded who require something that is not too hard to use. Games are not intended for business people (ever thought of that mac users). and personally, i prefer the keyboard/mouse interface for WinXP and stop the accusations of stealing OS's. Some bright spark made up these operating systems from scratch, possibly incorporating some ideas from the rivals OS, but still it has their own original ideas incorporated into the OS. the accusations are in the leaast 'bullshit'
it all depends what person you are, and what type of work/games u wish to play
simple as that
thanx

D49:

I use Windows, Linux and OSX and still prefer windows as my main OS. Thats probably because its what I initially started on. Macs, notebooks especially, are still expensive.Try buying a 15.4" widescreen laptop from apple for under $AUD3000.

d49

Cage:

You people missed the point. This is not about which is better, Macs or PCs. This is the Apple Ads that don't deliver the results.

Renegade:

I want to call on APC to at some point hold a test in which each operating system is put through its paces on as equal as possible hardware.(obviously the linux and windows can run on the one) It should be based on the following guidelines.
1. usability call on people who will not be biased. eg. old folk
2. performance (if hardware can be exactly the same)
3. compaitabilty with other software
4. Other left for anyone to add points

Although this may never happen I wish it would so everyone can be put back in their place. It may be a start to ending this age old fight.
P.S I just thought this up and have not fully thought it up so if ya want to criticised any points I made bite me.

Renegade

Angus:

Tom, I hope you are just baiting people.

Let's see, you think...
1. Mac users are simple minded.
2. Business people don't play games.
3. Using an unessessarily complicated solution is more intelligent than using a simpler one that does the same job.

I'm glad you enjoy your PC challange, but I doubt that makes you smarter, it's just a personal choice. You said you have no idea what Macs are like but you quite happy to comment on what they are good for anyway.

And D49 I think you have an interesting point, although I don't know that Mac laptops now are really all that more expensive than an equivalent name brand PC spec, perhaps it's just that you can't get as many combinations as a PC. So maybe it is a shame Apple does not offer a 15.4 version of the MacBook which would be much less than the Pro version, certainly much less than $3000. I like the focussed range most of the time, but sometimes it might mean you spend more to get a particular feature.

Renegade:

Another thing we always here from mac zealots that their machines are superior to Windows and linux and that one day they will gain complete or close to complete marketshare. But just a warning when and if you pundits do gain your market share you will see the parade of viruses that windows sees everyday, you will find that you do have loop holes in your system that will be exposed. The os will have other troubles as developers rush to get their software to support OSX and poor jobs have been done. And possibly others.

I am not saying that they will end up like the ruins of windows or have lack of support like linux.

But You WILL come across problems and many viruses with that. Then you will have to spend money on the virus protection. It is inevitable viruses are caused for a few purposes: To create damage and as much of it as possible.
For money gain such as spyware or mailware.
And to test ones programming ability
The people who do create viruses target the majority and with this market share you will be flooded by viruses

D49:

No back to back comparison is ever going to answer the questions which OS is best it is all very subjective. The mac / windows / linux zealots will continue to argue and the people who want to get a job done will use whatever works best for them and ignore of the "zealot static".
Back OT while these adds are funny they certainly havent convinced anyone I know to change their thinking either way. These adverts lack any sort of meaningful detail and do nothing to improve the perceived mentality of Apple owners. Now must get back to work got some spreadsheets to do :)

Teaspoon:

The point of the article isn't to say "ha ha ha Macs are shit and their ads are lie-filled heaps of crap", but I don't think I've seen any responses from Mac users that recognise that. You're all just trotting out the same stuff you post every time you stumble across a discussion that mentions Macs, regardless of what's actually said. It must be tough, constantly feeling compelled to defend a choice that the rest of the world doesn't give a shit about. But Mac users could be worse - they could be Scientologists!

Anyway, the point of this article is that the ads aren't actually effective at anything other than reinforcing the Mac users' smugness. A potential customer (like Nathan's mother) who's been having trouble with all sorts of nasty happenings on her PC who saw that ad got the opinion that Macs were not a good option for her, because the ad sort-of implies that Macs don't perform the business tasks that she needs from her computer. The implication may be false, but we know of at least one potential customer who heard it that way and it [b]actively discouraged[/b] her from switching - at least until Nathan (hopefully) corrected her misconception. You did actually correct her, didn't you?

VannA:

Renegade is on the money.

Something else worth considering, with regards to the Future Marketshare of OS/X vs Wintel products..

Apple simply cannot compete in an enterprise environment. Netinfo is a horridly complex and irritating solution, especially compared to a mature AD solution.

If Apple want to actually make a reasonable dent in the market place, they need to win over businesses, as a System Admin for the last 8 years, dealing with both Apple and MS operating systems.. Apple have their job cut out for them.

gorillapaws:

I'm biased towards the Mac. That said, I have a problem with the logic used in your article. You said basically because your mother (a member of the target market of the commercial) didn't like the adds, they were a failure. Just wanted to point out this is fallacious logic. It is certainly possible that the commercials were successful as a whole while still being a failure with regards to your mother.

Personally, I dislike the adds, and I don't think they're successful; but using poor logic in any article is inexcusable. I think they portray the Mac user as being smug and someone who secretly enjoys putting others down. Personally, I think Apple would do well to showcase the greatness of OSX by actually SHOWING the os.

It's a shame how many myths are being thrown around about OSX. My advice is to give it a try (an open-minded try) for a month or so. Buy a used machine running OSX 10.4 and try to use it for a month or so. If you don't like it, sell it back on ebay for a minimal-to-no loss, and at least you know what all the Mac-users are so excited about. At the very least read the best article I know of on OSX from a PC user's perspective here:
It's a bit dated but unbiased and lucid. A great read.

halcon:

I have read all the obscenities thrown at the PC machine and their users; I am offended for all the rubbish that was said.
The Mac was never a great machine, always has been overpriced and with less options to upgrade in comparison to the PC.
Why? All the components that make the Macs are integrated, so if you buy one of these machines and you want to upgrade with latest components you are out of luck.
The PC always and will thrive because IBM designed a machine to be upgraded with several components, making it popular, affordable and dependable.
The choice of Operating systems, depend on how many software publishers and organization are available to give the user flexibility.
Windows has 96% of the global usage around the world because is the only Operating System well known, other operating systems are trying to break that amount without success, this is the perception that the other alternatives are not user friendly as Windows is.
Someone said DELL PCs are more expensive than Mac’s, that’s bullshit!
DELL is custom made computers, depending on budget, performance and overall design, tailored for individuals and business alike.
It depend on the personal taste of what brand is bought and used at home or office, but to say the Macs are superior than the PCs is misleading; all the machines branded or non-branded (white box assemblers) are using the same technology (US Patent) IBM Compatibles and Macs as well.
If some stupid bastards say the PCs has Malware, Spyware and Virus and the Macs do not have none of these, that’s nonsense, any machine may be affected with one of these problems; Think, who want to ruin the lives of people using the computers? Some greedy bastards that stop at nothing to take advantage over the situation, some of these problems above mentioned are done by unscrupulous people waging a dishonest campaign to steal sensitive information of governments, Military, corporations, small business and ordinary people for criminal gain.
These acts should be stopped at all costs, because is a crime, that’s where the law and order should prevail by bringing to justice these menacing bastards and put them behind bars.
Why Apple Computer does not dare to challenge Microsoft dominance by making available OS X to the PC?
It seems they are stupid enough to not recognise there is a huge market awaiting them to buy a product that may do a difference in the daily life of everyone using a computer.
Apple lost an opportunity to make money without effort by offering the people a choice of budget computers with the ability to upgrade them later as is with IBM Compatible machines; they lost it because this company is greedy, out of touch and moreover monopolistic like Microsoft as well.
If Microsoft could make their products more affordable, people would not complain about it; this company would gain the trust and loyalty of many people, at this moment this is not possible, due to the arrogance of the company executives whose intention are just to fill up their pockets with wads of cash.
Apple computers are more expensive than PCs at this moment; if I could have money I would buy a PC rather than a big Mac, because is cheaper than before and more powerful and tasteful as a KFC TwisterTM.
I have used a PC over 10 years and I will not change that, unless I am given a free Mac computer to use and see what the fuss about it, then I can make my mind which one is good.
Long live to the PC, death to the rotten Apple.

CORE:

What a sad story, and what a lack of knowledge:

It is possible to upgrade a MAC , but why should you do that, a MAC is fast enough to be used 4 years or longer, after that you sell it and get 25 - 40% back of the new price.

( a pc is shredded at that age )

If you have an pc with the right configuration, you can use the Apple OSX.

Virusses etc, i never had one , my first mac is from 1994 and i had NEVER any problems with that.

Software , i could use 95% of the available software, but with the new Apple machines i can use 100% , i can also use windows on it.

Use your pc and enjoy it , and if you want to see how your windows OS works in 5 years visit an apple store or watch the preview for Apple upcoming OSX Leopard.

For all you Windows lovers , i hope you enjoy Windows Vista, we liked it when it came out 4 years ago.

PS sorry for my bad english, if you saw errors please reply me in Dutch.

don:

Gotta say, the ads kind of suck.
The hipster clone boy is annoying, and so very bland. I reckon that his creative output is honestly quite boring, you know, blah Flash websites, pedestrian dance tracks.
The 'pc' man, well, he seems like a nice guy. Nathan Davis is correct in saying that Apple is laughing at all the regular dudes who use pc's.
As an ad, I cannot imagine that it motivates this enormous demographic into buying Apple.
Maybe it would be more effective if the characters were not human.
p.s. I'm a Mac user, and have been since 2000. I can't stand my wife's Dell, and I think that she can't either.

Renegade:

halcon
Go to grammar school and learn to write.
Apart from that your points whent no were.

And it is almost impossible to catch virus writers. So settle down and relax because viruses are here to stay.

liam:

Uh, Renegade, you might want to improve your own writing skills before commenting in future. I can see at least 5 mistakes in your 4 sentences, lol.

Timothy Wong:

Ditto that Liam :)

Dionysus73:

OK folks being a former MAC user who has now converted to PCs I think I may 'weigh-in' for this most interesting of bitch-fights. The obvious first - MACs are beautiful, well-designed machines and frankly when you see a MAC you want to engage with it. They were (and most still are) woefully underpowered and overpriced ... end of story. You pay roughly 200% of the price of an equivalent, or better, performing PC (though ugly!). Even MACs' 'entry level' package - that pissant excuse for a computer, the MAC-Mini, which at its cheapest costs $945 is double a better performing PC speced machine (which comes with monitor, keyboard, DVD burner and mouse!). Secondly, most MAC devotees are illinformed tossers who read far too much APPLE advertsing material. APPLE, of course, is well aware of this - as a company it knows it can post riduclous claims about the performance of its latest product (yes, yes I know the entire industry does this to SOME extent!). Though this propensity will dissapear as we get more PC/MAC/INTEL convergence. I've had many discussions with APPLE-devotees and I am disturbed at a characteristic lack of tech-knowledge ... it's disturbing (though, as always, there are exceptions to the rule). Yes, APPLE users like to point-out the lack of viruses/spyware/malware blah, blah - and I simply reply ... '3% market share' (and that's being bloody generous - some count as low as 0.5%). Work out the logic yourselves.
It's also sad the APPLE has opted for such a negative advertising campaign, i.e trying to create a perception as to what a PC can't do (or what a MAC doesn't suffer) - very adolescent stuff.
Finally MACs suck, Steve Jobs is a control freak, MAC users are all tech-retards with passive-aggressive tendancies who find it just too fucking difficult to handle two mouse buttons (they like 'simplicity'!?).

bfinns:

ok I have acouple things...
1. I agree that iMovie is better than windows movie maker... (im in video production and ive never even opened it before) but i think that windows media player is better because it can support many more media types than mac and streaming video

2. I know there is a huge debate about price. I have worked with macs and can tel u that macbooks come with great software but are like 1,000$ as. But if you even got the lowest mac (mini mac) it would still be 600$ and you would not get a screen keyboard or internet. But the cheapest dell laptop thats only 499& is not only a lap-top but it comes woth wirless internet. If I had 600$ to spend I think I would get the internet ready, out of the box computer rather than one that I would have to peice togehter.

Potoroo:

About 18 months ago my neighbour bought a fairly high end Mac. I'm a long time PC user. If I charged him for the number of "support calls" I've done for him for I could just about retire. Apparently Macs are so easy to use their users need a PC specialist to come and configure them - again and again and again. I solved most of his problems through my application of first principles but there have been a few where I've had to refer him to a Mac consultant (who does charge him).

I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge my PC's weaknesses and give Microsoft a kick where they deserve it (often but not always), but my experiences with his Mac have persuaded me to stay with what I know. It's a lot easier for me to get under XP's hood to fix things than it is on his Mac.

Just as a side note, what is it with Apple and mice? I have never come across a Mac with a comfortable, solidly made mouce. Is it simply not hip enough to apply good engineering principles to the item of one's computer you use more often than anything else?

José:

what's wrong with Pc??

Simple: COMES WITH WINDOWS

big.al:

No it doesn't. Have you heard of Linux???

halcon:

What's wrong with you José?
If you hate PCs and use Macs, go to hell!
In my opinion you are ill informed and biased, after all the Macs have never achieved success in penetrating the market in big volume sale, the PC did it because can be upgraded as many times as you like.
Windows is not tied to the PC also there is Linux, Solaris and other operating systems.
So next time, don't target the PC!

Rick:

I've been a PC user/builder/geek for 18 years now and have just bought a Mac. The ads are spot on. These things work and work extremely well. Well thought out and intuitive. I now have workflow instead of workarounds.

Greg:

isn't the latest mac running on unix? you know ... that os that had nothign to do with apple until apple decided to buy a real platform to put their marketing prowess on.

oh ... and tha tintel thing ... wasn't in mac that was going on and on how it's cpu's were superior ... only to ditch them and buy what the pc guys use.

apple is nothing more than a marketing company and it's legions of die hard fans are more haters of MS than lovers of MAC ... though they might not know it.

jail:

the PC GUY, in real life is "john hodgman" and appears on the Daily Show, on Comedy Central - as a 'consultant' - funny man

Stuart D:

Some of you people really crack me up. Firstly, getting back on subject, I like some of the 'Get a Mac' ads, some are very funny, some are quite true, and others miss the mark for me. But the ads aren't aimed at me. And they're not generally aimed at the hardcore Windows devotee or the Mac fanatic either. They are aimed more at the curious and the disenchanted. If anyone out there takes these ads too much to heart and is feeling overly offended or embarrassed, maybe you should sit yourself down and reflect on life. As for the article writer's mother, she didn't get the gist of the ad. It wasn't about spreadsheets, it was about the definition of fun. She needs to watch it again. The one about "work" is entitled "Self Pity". I've been using computers, very early command line Apples with the green phosphor monitors, since 1983 in Grade 8 (Aspley High, Qld) and DOS in the early days from Grade 11. Twenty years on, and I've used every MS desktop OS version since then. I've bought name systems, built my own, upgraded them, nursed them through bouts of Windows psychosis, application paralysis and HD consuming gluttony. Oh, and everyone's favourite, blue screens. Wipe and install fresh, some planned, too many unplanned, and all painful. I've also used Windows at work since 3.1 hit the stage. For most of this time since 1986, I had only very rarely touched an Apple OS, and as such I never bagged it simply because I had never really used it. But I guess those brief moments of contact sparked a curiosity which always stayed with me. So yeah, I'm a bit of a geek. In 2001, I bought an Apple iBook, the first Mac released with OS X. It was a revelation and blew me away from the moment I first turned it on. And I've been using Macs at home ever since. But I still have to use XP at work. OS X lets me get things done. XP forever throws up road blocks and stop signs. Macs are virus free because of the secure BSD Unix foundation of OS X. There are lots of big, very tasty BSD Unix installations out there, very tempting targets and lots of smaller ones running Apple's variant. Occasional security holes are discovered and quickly patched, but overall it's a much more tightly written code-base than the spaghetti which is Windows. Hence the lack of malware for BSD generally and OS X specifically. I understand the Windows geek out there who likes to build their own system from bits. It's fun, it's a challenge and rewarding when it comes together - all the different drivers installed, hardware, OS and software conflicts sorted, etc. But moving to the Mac didn't mean I have to give up the geek inside. I picked up a very usable, nice cheap G4 tower (DA 533 01/01) & digital monitor on eBay for a song a year ago and armed with a minimum of research upgraded it bit by bit; memory, HD (scavenged from old PC); Controller, USB2, Bluetooth (eBay); a cheap 1.6GHz G4 upgrade and high-speed wireless card (new). All worked first time. It's an amazingly fast system. PPC G4 processors have other industrial applications and continue to evolve, soon to go dual-core and will be available as upgrades for a long time to come. A G4 tower is far from dead. So if you're only a novice gamer, or happy with the relative niche of PPC games you can build an inexpensive kick-arse system. Still, it would be nice if Apple released a value basic box you could go wild on. But a company can only expand so quickly. They'll probably do it when everything is in place (personnel, supply, support, distribution), but not before. Apple make beautiful, well thought out systems (very neat and tidy inside and out) with quality components and materials. They make elegant, well though out software and a highly evolved OS. That was long winded, but that barely scratches the surface of why I know OS X + Mac is superior. PS. It's interesting reading the comments from all the "former MAC users" who HATE MAC now and LOVE Windows. They sound just as shrill as the monogamous "We LOVE / defend Windows" crowd. It's Mac btw, a former Mac user would most likely know that it's a proper name and not an acronym.

Krad Xeron:

You mac users fail to realize something PC does not mean PC === Windows

Oh, it's the OS that makes the system immune to the viruses, therefore "Mac OSX is immune to viruses" - not "Mac is immune to the viruses" - a mac running windows could get a virus JUST as fast as a PC, since Macs aren't restricted to MacOSX anymore, viruses are an option. there you have it.

And Also, Macs are being assimilated into the category of "regular computer" ever since they joined the intel alliance, all that makes them special nowadays is their lack of a BIOS (Which isn't so special) a differing chipset and such. they can run OSes a PC can too, so there's a fine line that stops a Mac from being called a "Regular Computer" by many people

And for us who like legacy stuff, Macs don't fullfill that. Legacy hardware still is a good thing.

ben:

geez, halcon, it's hard to listen to you when you blast people personally for their opinions...
"What’s wrong with you José?
If you hate PCs and use Macs, go to hell!
In my opinion you are ill informed and biased,"

Go to hell? If macs were truly that bad, then why would people use them? They are good for some things after all. I think perhaps you are the one ill-informed and definitely the one who is biased.

Chris:

There are no virus's or spyware at the moment.. you think your mac os 10 is invincible?
once macs start to get more popular, its only a matter of time before people start making virus's and spyware for them.

idiots..

Woody:

I had a MAC, now I've got a Dell. The MAC was quite nice, but... I priced out both when I bought my DELL for 1200; the MAC would've cost me 2300 (Canadian) And I've gotta admit, I like the DELL soooo much better! Games, games, games. And I've never really cared what comes already installed on either machine - it's all about the upgrades and other software you put on it later, and you cannot beat a PC for that. Problems? Rarely for me, and my most recent problem was with the latest iTunes (version 7). Go to Apple the support forum and check out that debacle. And now there's a virus on new iPods? If MACS ever get popular (lol) then the malware will follow... After reading so many forums like this, I have also come to realize how ignorantly smug most MAC lovers tend to be. Relax, everyone. They're only computers.

Jordn:

Do you know why I like Windows and PCs? I don't have a Mac and I have only used OSX for all of 20 minutes in my entire life (I had really bad experiences with the older Mac OSes in the '90s, though - hated Apple for years after that).

Because I don't want out-of-the-box. I don't want it to "just work". I don't care! I want to use the command line, because I grew up on Windows 3.11 and DOS shells.

I don't need any fancy graphics packages or iTunes or iMovie. I want to spend hours tweaking my system so that it actually works.

Call me sad, bored or dull, but I'm not.

I don't have the money to buy a Mac or a new PC. I have a PC my brother built for me which he's upgraded over time.

So now I can't remember what I was talking about at the start of my comment. I tend to do mental hopskotch without realising it.

I also, at some point in the future (presumably during the summer Uni break), want to become a gamer. Without needing to buy a console that I can't nearly afford.

But meh. I don't need a Mac. Sure, I want a Mac, but I don't need one. I want something that works after a good few days of work. And I want easy access to at least 500,000 programs for the same purpose. I haven't heard of a Mac user with a dozen variations of Mahjong or two dozen Internet browsers.

halcon:

Hey Woody, I got a Dell PC too, I like the design of the machine, is very stylish, and is possible to use it for limitless possibilities, unlike Macs these machine are rather dull, little or nothing to upgrade or look at.
the Mac followers are blindfolded to accept the reality check, their machines are a lot of rubbish.

mattmuir:

And this year and bought an Apple. What a machine. Things just work the way they should. Applications talk to each other. The computer comes loaded with everything except MS Office, which can be bought quite cheaply and has 5 licences. Yes, I still have 2 PCs. I haven't used either of them except for work purposes since I bought the Mac.

Oh -- last month I bought a second Mac. I'm going to set up a new home with a complete integrated Home Theatre system all based on Macs. I was always impressed with mini/micro cases, but NOTHING is smaller than a Mac Mini.

BTW -- I am not bagging PC's, I'm just saying, given the choice, and despite my upbringing, I'd prefer a Mac.

As someone who actually owns both systems, I give the Mac 4/5 whilst I give the PC a 4/5 when it is functioning correctly, all the drivers are working correctly, and it doesn't have some sort of driver conflict/application conflict/virus.

dav:

i bought a mac book pro with the new intel core 2 duo.... and i will never go back to a PC. windows vista....lame. macs just work. yeah sure it cost me a little over 2 grand but i would like to see a pc under 5 grand than can compare to this. everything is integrated and all the software is made to work together, no stupid anti-viruses running in the background. its fast, secure, and wont ever freeze or crash regardless of how many programs i'm running. i would like to see a PC do that, hell i'll this labtop will even give most pc desktops a run for their money.

Steevo:

It's amusing how people admire one side - and despise the other. My guess is that all of these people have not used both types of systems (for at least a month). I use both - and they both do exactly what I need them to do. I have used a PC for longer than i have used my Mac - but I love my Mac more.
This doesn't mean my PC sucks - or that i hate it.

Syd:

I love how these Mac v PC debates end up more like discussions about circumcising your child, or deciding which shipwrecked tourist gets turned into stew first. And though I've formerly partaken, I can't help but imagine Comic Book Guy when I hear this sort of thing.

In terms of business: isn't it about finding the right tool at the right price? What you're using to get the job done shouldn't matter if it gets it done reliably under budget. To that end, the fanboyism between Macs v PCs is a bit like the same thing between Intel and AMD enthusiasts: pissing about a point.

Why else would major publishers (like APC, for example) dump the bulk of their Macs - formerly a strong part of their design regimen - and switch to PCs for mission-critical tasks? 'Cause they worked better, cheaper, or were easier to manage in large numbers. That's the bottom line for most businesses that're larger than sole trader: they see there's more to it than whether the box on the desk looks nice, buys Bill Gates another yacht, or comes with smug ads attached.

Anonymous:

I've thought long and hard about getting a Mac, literally every occasion when it's time to get a new computer.

Cost was not a factor at all, since I can tax deduct the hardware.

These were the ones that stopped me recently from getting a Mac, since I run a business:

- no Aussie Quickbooks for Mac.

- no Outlook for Mac that can easily sync my emails with my PC-Outlook. (When I have two PC's, I can sync outlook by just copying across the .pst file, and both PC's have the same email files. Bill Gates knew that email was a killer app, and hence did not produce Outlook for the Mac. Of course, they'll give other reasons, but we know it was done for commercial advantage.

- no proper PDA that syncs with PC-Outlook and Mac. With my PocketPC, I can sync with multiple PC's.

So, for now, I have to get by with living with a 2nd rate Windows. Life, after all, is a bunch of compromises.

dboy:

To all windows users, It is time to get back to reality ask those in the know, Mac hardware/software configuration makes it such that constant upgrading is NOT required like windows/software makers perpectuate in the PC world. I ran windows since 3.0 up to XP and finally changed to mac in 2000. I purchsed a G4 400MHZ powermac and instantly fell in love. I have since purchased a iBook g3 900Mhz, a Macbook, and a 24" iMac. These computers have one major thing in common, they all run Mac OS X 10.4.8 (latest version). For you guys who don't know from the G3 ibook to the 24" iMac there have been 4 different generations of CPU's involved yet this perfect OS runs on ALL of them. And NO, they don't feel slow in anyway. Try running XP on a pentium 1, P2, P3 and see what performance hits you'll be taking (not usable). My latest 24" iMac boots up in 25 sec from cold to fully started (no hard drive activity) on this same computer running Windows XP (native not emulated) it takes over a minute for the hard drive to stop and all the tray to load. I have also installed Vista RTM to see how it would do as a comparision and well lets just say it clocked in at an interesting minute and a half to completely boot up. These times are abismal. As for the upgrading side of things you guys obviously you haven't noticed that most macs use the same hardware as PC's. They are highly configured for the best performance and because the components they use are more common pricing is closer to pc prices. Windows systems do hold 90% of the market place but that will change if apple has anything to say about it. I won't ever go into the hiway robbery that microsoft gets a with charging over $400 for Ultimate compared to 129.00 Mac OS X (Full Version not upgrade). Lastly I find it interesting how many PC owners are trying to get osx to run on there beige boxes, good luck.

Anonymous:

I read your reply with great interest. While I am not sure as yet, which Mac I will purchase, Instead of the expensive software and hardware upgrades etc I would need to run Vista Ultimate, I have decided to ditch my Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 and gaming PC later this year and buy my very first Mac. I refuse to pay $A799.00 for a full version of Vista Ultimate and another $A1500 - $A2,000 for hardware to bring it up to scratch. I've just been looking at a Mac Pro desktop and I like what I have seen. As yet, I may not know anything about Macs but I am certainl that I am fed up with being on the Microsoft 'PC treadmill'.

DL:

I just wanted to point out the subject of macs not having virus's. The main reason I believe pcs have virus's is because they are used alot more than macs. If macs became popular one day guess what, there would be virus's flowing for that as well. I have used both macs and pcs. My experiences with macs werent too bad but I did notice that they froze alot more on a daily basis than my pc did weekly. What really got me was that the macs would lock up and we would have to manually unplug them to get them working again. My personal preference would be a Pc anytime but I am not opposed to use macs.

Btw You can drag and drop programs from pc to pc and still have them work without installing.

dboy:

Hey DL,

I will agree with your comments on viruses, it makes sense that virus writers would want to inflict as much damage as possible and that would be windows based system for several reasons. First the install base being HUGE. Second, the fact that as an os goes windows isn't all that secure, mac os x (UNIX) has long been known to be more secure than windows, that said I'm sure if OS X becomes more popular then you may see viruses written for it. But I ask only one question of you on viruses wouldn't you think if it was easy to write a virus for mac some unhappy windows user would have made something to burst all the mac addicts bubbles. On the subject of crashes, what hurtin' mac os version were you using? I run mac os x on my systems and I have had my system uptime as long as a month between reboots. I ask how many heavy duty windows users can tout that. I also hate the constant bubble messages and how if you move a pci card in your system you have to re-install the drivers like windows can't just figure out what happened. I have recently decided to be a windows free zone in my house. All macs all the time. Even in my home theatre room my iMac 24" is going to be my htpc. One last comment, I ask you have many windows user absolutely LOVE windows, because all the mac addicts I know and the ones on this thread if asked absolutely LOVE Mac OS X. Bring on Leopard 10.5.

OS11:

For all practical purposes Macs run Outlook, it's just under the name Entourage.

I have people sync Outlook to Entourage and back all the time, all day, everyday. They use "The Missing Sync" works fine to sync between machines.

http://www.markspace.com/

With mail, it's not proper to "sync" email, you just need to set up your email account as IMAP, not POP and it does it automatically regardless of platform.

Howie Ronic:

Are a continuing source of entertainment for us Mac users. Even your censors are busy tyring to edit my comments on a machine that may crash at any moment. Opps sorry, I have to go now it's time for the 10 am Windoze security update.

Gianni Wise:

This whole ridiculous thread started with those who felt slighted by the work of some marketing organisation - why do we still respond to such trash? These are machines. Mac / PC / Unix - who really cares? Bth do graphiocs and both run office/ business software. Both have a mouse, a monitor, and a CPU. The rest is marketing hype designed solely to mak us buy or update more of them. Get over it and think about your families, love lives, the world etc.

Martin Gifford:

How much time do Windows users spend thinking about security issues? It's always there in the back of our minds like a vampire slowly sucking away. It's just that we've all gotten used to it, so we don't notice.

The Apple ads are excellent. They make us notice the PC faults and remember that there is an alternative. The ads are also aimed at new computer users and the young. The ads are taking a long-term view. They might offend current PC users, but it will work in the long-term. They are sowing the seeds.

ikyouCrow:

zero. never been an issue for me.

Anonymous Coward:

...but not because of Apple's stupid commercials. I, like the writer's mother, wanted a computer free of the "havoc" plaguing my Windows desktop. Applications that refused to load, DLL files that suddenly went missing, configuration details that went the way of /dev/null, the Registry -- the list is endless as to why I couldn't stand Windows. (Don't get me started about Microsoft.)

I don't see the actor who plays the Mac and constantly puts down the PC as "hip" or "cool;" I think he's a first-class dope. And I don't like how the writers constantly downplay the seemingly "nerdy" and "life-unfriendly" qualities of the modern PC -- a Mac can be just as "nerdy" and just as "life-unfriendly." (There's a reason that it's Unix under there!) The Mac can be (and is, for me at least) a fine work computer, and I can do the work I need to do, in file formats all my Windows-using classmates can read, using what may or may not be the better computer for the job. Apple do a poor job of showing that in the workplace, a Mac can do a lot of what a PC can do, in a more secure fashion than any non-Unix-based OS I can think of.

I don't like the way Apple portray their computers or its users. Sure, I'm proud to be a Macintosh user -- if you love your platform, you should be proud of it, and that goes true for Windows, Linux, BSD, Solaris, Mac OS X, even MS-DOS if that's your thing. But the Apple logo on my laptop's cover hasn't turned me into the smug, PC-hating jack@$$ that Apple apparently want me to be.

If Apple want to penetrate the business market (and reach out to people like the writer's mother, or my mother as a matter of fact), they need to emphasize that the Macintosh is a computer fit for business, and that a Windows user can walk up to a Mac and have the basics of the Mac OS down within an hour, using familiar tools such as Microsoft Office to do his/her work.

JW:

I think the commercials are annoying and don't necessarily do any good for Apple. Instead of trying to promote the good about Macs, they take a page from politicians and try to run a smear campaign... At the same time, they're making all you Mac users look like a bunch of smug @$$h013$...

Yeah, Macs can do just about everything a PC can do nowadays. I wonder why? Because they would have trouble continuing to exist if they didn't.

I don't buy the claim that Macs never have problems. All the Macs I've encountered have issues just like PC's do. How do I know when I rarely use them? Because I see the Mac users freak out when they can't connect to a network, or get e-mail, or get shared files on a network, etc. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that PC's don't have their issues too. I'm just saying that I've had fewer issues with my PC than the Mac users I know.

I also don't *entirely* buy the Mac is more secure than the PC. I've never had a virus on any PC I've owned over the past 15 years. While it has only happened once, my brother's Mac was wiped out by a virus. If you want the best security, go to an OS that is a flavor of Unix.

I think your marketing idea of putting the Mac out there as a potential business computer is a great one. Too bad they don't. My employers CIO went to Apple to discuss enterprise agreements and they turned him away saying that they don't do that. Really? No wonder they lack the market share of PC.

All in all, I think both PC and Mac are here to stay. In the end, it's best for all of us PC and Mac users that the two are competing.

Bulldozer:

All these comments are very interesting but they just serve to reinforce a well-known fact, that Mac users have a distinctly homosexual aura about them. They also suffer from small dick (or no dick!) syndrome.

Steve Reiher:

Yes!
Most Mac users I know are either:
1. girls who know nothing about computers, and need a new fashion accessory
or
2. people who don't know how to read english and need to click on pretty icons.

Let's face it... if it wasn't for ipods, Macs would be dead.

Andrew T:

Gee, you guys need to get out more. You're way too sensitive. How can you get offended by a jokey sales pitch?

Tool Boy:

This is just stoopid.

da sheik:

Its really saddens me to think that just 3 years ago I was this stupid. I remember having one sided discussions about the mac Vs Pc when I knew nothing about a mac becasue I didn't own one. Secretly knowing that there was something about the OSX that made me want to try it. Well I'm glad i did there is no comparison between the two, so stop it, everybody knows it even you hardcore i built my box from scratch wanna be power users, who wouldn't know power computing if it fell on you. Power is running 2 screens final cut studio on one with OSX and acid on another with windows xp, dragging and dropping between the two like "butter" while ripping my DVD, listening to itunes and writing a report in office 2007. Now when windows will allow you to do that without your computer having a massive coronary talk to me.

signed " former pc guy"

JW:

A lot of that depends on your hardware and a lot depends on your OS. I'm glad you have a grand experience with your Mac. However, my brother's Mac can barely run OSX. Since upgrading his Mac, he does nothing but complain about how slow it is. He has trouble doing things as basic as connecting to a network. You have a right to be happy with your Mac's great performance. I find it funny that most Mac users don't understand the concept of hardware limitations. When my brother needs help upgrading his hardware, who does he come to for help? The PC guy who knows how to build a computer from scratch...

macman:

Macs run Windows.
Macs run Windows Office (you know, Powerpoint, Word, Excel <-that's spreadsheets).
Macs don't have viruses.
Macs run Windows software.
Macs don't display coded messages.
Macs don't even need a warrenty - Apple simply offers it to makes profit from it.
Macs only use Mac certified software so as you don't end up on the phone to a customer service representitive for three hours.
Macs make things simple.

The ad campaign, unless you're looking for a digg at Apple, depicts an Apple computer and a PC, not an Apple user and a PC user.

As for the emphasis on all things media made by the depiction of a Mac in the one particular ad you mention here, unless you know nothing about marketing and/or computers, Mac's selling point is a more graphic, user-friendly, awe-inspiring interface. Whereas Windows selling point is constantly fixing Windows' problems.

Do your research next time.

JW:

You bought a Mac to run the OS that you complain about. You bought a Mac to use Microsoft Office. What about all the "spectacular software" that a Mac comes with? And you still use Microsoft software... Why?

justthething84:

You can upgrade PCs - they are the best to buy

IT Support Guy:

Well thats what I am told when I go to look at MACs with lost profiles, network issues, dead programs etc. I have discovered that the bits also fall off them. Good stuff.

I have a few questions.

Windows has Viruses. So if you put Windows on a MAC would you not be getting those viruses?

Linux does not get viruses, so you can not say all PC's get viruses.

Does anyone run MACs as servers?

Why does QTime try to give me iTunes(crapware)?

Why has it taken so long for MACs to be upgradable? Granted the parts are more expensive and quite often behind PC development.

Lastly. If MACs are superior why is only a small number of people around the word using them? The ipod sells as an overpriced accessory.

And why do MACs need a specialist to fix them when PC's can be fixed by work experience high school.

Captain Rufus:

Before you all tear each other appart, go on to You Tube and type in Mac add spoof, or something similar, and watch the spoof im a pc im a mac adds. Because they contain the truth of this issue. They sum everyhting up quite nicely I think.

the war of the Operating Systems:

In the past macs had their own processors and graphics cards today macs now use Intel processors and ATI and Nvida graphics caards, they now also have a mac(with a tower case) that is fully customisable with it's insides having a striking resemblense of a PC. Mac is also copying PC in home entertainment with mini macs and the new appleTV. Macs wasn't able to play games before but now it can like a PC. Macs wern't able to make spread sheets but now they can use MS Office like a PC.

Mac is now attempting to enter the world of touchscreen which PC already did a few years back.

PC is now married with Vista who looks very similar to OSX especially with the gadgets. PCs can now operate Mac software such as Quicktime and being compatible to the ipod and iphone. PCs now have pre-installed software dealing with movie and photo editing just like a mac.

Macs and PCs have growing similarities, Mac and PC may join forces in the future to fight against a bigger and faster growing force - LINUX

Gastroboy:

I have used both Macs and PCs for 23 years. The Macs because I love them and the PCs because I was forced to!

It's always been tough to use the Mac. Not because of the Mac, which is simply a pleasure to use. I really mean that, it really is lovely to use.

It is because no matter how many meetings you go into armed with facts, statistics, references and documentation you get exactly the same blind prejudice. Mainly from the IT staff whose secure position as essential props for bad decisions, hardware, software and security is challenged.

Their livelihood relies on failure. Failure to complete tasks on time or competently. Failure to keep networks up and running. Failure to protect their organisations from security flaws, attacks by hackers and floods of viruses, spyware and adware.

They have indoctrinated their customers into embracing failure and poor results as the natural state of affairs. They have even persuaded the more simple minded PC users to chant & rant at anyone who doesn't conform.

Tiger is a "copy of Vista" because Windows looks like OSX!!! Macs are compared with totally dissimilar PCs to "prove" they are too expensive. Even the lack of viruses on the Mac is a fault. If Apple could only write an OS half as well as Microsoft it too would have its fair share of virii and malware, instead of having none.

I was a VAR for Macs at one stage, but couldn't make a living out of it because there was so little after sales service.

The bloody things just worked!

If only they could have been half the problem of PCs I too could have joined the ranks of the bile-filled PC orthodox. Maybe the hate is a side product of HAVING to use PCs and Windows day to day.

Koolv:

bloody idiots. the main reasons why Macs & PC's are not compatible are being smashed, It started with the switch to Intel Chips. The next step is EFI. Microsuck will introduce EFi to you legacy heads who are willing to pay for crap "The new EFI". Competition is good. Microsuck is so big what's stopping them from giving their loyal subjects an OS that runs 32 & 64 Bit apps simultaneously. Loyalty that's what. People willing to buy what ever they sell. Once Microsuck drops BIOS there goes the hardware incompatibility with OSX. Look out for Vista SP1 if it includes EFI. By the way good luck on using more than 3.12 GB of Ram on those PC's.
Also if you do want to use more than 3.12 GB of ram try Vista 64. Good luck on finding apps that run on that. By the way there is an 8 core 3.0 GHZ Mac with a capacity of 32 GB of ram in the wild. Good Luck on using more than two cores on your PC. Ever wonder why there isn't an 8 core PC From Smell? No! Microsuck is too big to be treating their loyal subjects like this. I would do the same thing if i was Microsuck. Drop the BIOS & make them pay all over again again for new hardware.

Phormic:

Nice post.

The innate conservatism and resistance to change shown by most (not all) IT staff is staggering. It's true that in a strange way they have a symbiotic relationship with Microsoft in that their jobs directly depend on that company's incompetance.

I have introduced Macs to a few companies and been amazed by hostility shown to me from IT departments. Usually I'm refused any IT support whatsoever which is fine because, well, y'know, I don't really need it.

This isn't some dumb Mac fanboi rant. I don't hate PC's. I've used them often enough and they usually get the job done fine but the weird anti-Mac snobbery in many IT departments is just bizarre. First the curled lips and "toy" comments, then being completely ignored as I seamlessly sync into their networks in no time flat and just get on with it.

It's a weird world sometimes.

Rubarb:

BAHAHAHAHA GAHAHAHAH er, er mmm BAHAHAHAHAHA, sniff sniff, oh dear.

PCs are better than Macs... er, right.

BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA, oh jeez, oh , mmmm BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA, om, sniff, erh, phew.

BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA oh stop it, stop it please, oh, oooo weee. Phew, that hurt.

Because I have clients with both platforms, I used to try to give reasons for using a PC for certain tasks. Not any more. I have just given up. Windows is the most useless O.S. ever.
I develop 70% of my work for PCs but I do it all on a Mac and test it on a PC.
When so called experts say Windows is better than OSX, I just laugh out aloud. It's so, so, so obvious to anyone who has used macs that they leave PCs in the 80s.
Did I mention, DLLs, Registry, Spyware, Viruses, really bad mouse handling, awful screen rendering, font nightmares, SP1/SP2, Vista(HA!), uninstall, Java comaptablility, 20¢ keyboards, MS reliant, Zune...
I remember a survey from a few years ago that said 99% of switchers from PC to Macs DO NOT want to go back but 99% of Mac users currently using PCs WANT to go back to Macs.

BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA, oh jeez, oh , mmmm BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA, om, sniff, erh, phew.

PC Fanboys, Keep 'em coming, it's really funny.

BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA, oh dear, oh , urgg BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHA
etc etc etc

Mac4ever:

Finally someone with a bit of sense! You PC users obviously have never used a mac have you? As I right this thred on my Dell PC I hope and pray I can someday pay for the overpriced Mac you so despise! Firstly, not only music benefits from the power of mac, but show me a single graphic design house worth a "dogs ball" that prefers pc! Not to mention photographers, like me!
PC loveres are so deluded!!!!!!!

Bjørn Magne:

Do y'all notice that whenever a proud mac-user makes a crushing argument, it gets either completely ignored, or responded childishly to by the Windows-users, whereas when a Windows user tries to argument, or pose quiestions, they are most of the time responded to in a good argumentive fashion...

I'm on a XP Acer laptop myself, and I've had my fair share of viruses and crap-ware. Several times was I inches away from tossing the brand new shite out the window, and stomp down to the local store and demand an iBook. I still wonder why I didn't... Wake up y'all! Windows is crap! Face it! I don't go one single day without crashing or freezing for an hour, seriously. And I don't want that "you're incompetent" crap, I've been clever enough to save this piece of shit out of more than one attack.

Mac FTW!
"Windows can do all those things. Windows Movie Maker=iMovie"... And they call me stubborn...

mad4mac:

I have and use both. I love iWeb, a noob like me can build a website in a couple of hours. The word processing and presentation gear is simple and intuitive. I also use microsoft office for mac and find it easier than using it on my pc. That said, I'm not going to say which is better, it really is pc (personal choice) and I think it is worth trying both. Bill Gates large purchase of Apple Inc shares indicate that there is something positive about Macs.

Theo:

Why yes, they do. They do Numbers.

Oracle of Mice:

Why?

Because Apple is the most notoriously proprietary bastard out there.

At least with a PC, I can install the hardware I choose, from the companies of my choice, and the software/OS I choose from sources I want. If I wanted to, I could build my own damned PC from scrap parts. Apple will never let me do that, nor can i ever buy a mac from any other company than Apple. I can install Windows on any machine, including a mac, but I can't put OSX or whatever Apple OS of your choosing on a PC.

The fact simply remains that when you buy Apple, they're twice as greedy as the others. As you probably have seen recently, Apple is finally getting some flack about their incredibly proprietary nature as they take a larger share of the digital media (and thanks to the iphone, the communications) market.

Yes, windows is playing catch up, and it makes them look like poor imitations, but windows and PC are not synonymous. Apple and Mac are.

Anonymous123:

So you do have a choice.

I use both. But as an UI, Apple is better. Vista tries much harder, but it just doesn't have good designers, or visual leaders, or both. Some of the icons and visuals are outright gaudy, and what's with that HUGE side-bar?

But, like with front gold teeth, certain types will find beauty in it.

Adam Ch:

most all of the comments made on this massive list of irresistibly stupid remarks are just wrong.

a) Current MACs are PCs. They're X86 based, they run intel processors and in bare-boned ass iMac configuration generally use intel's bottom of the barrel graphics. Claims against Intel, "WINTEL", PCs, and Apple's Bootcamp utility can only be made through avenues of bold stupidity. THE ONLY REASON a white-box home-built X86-based computer cannot run Apple's OS-X is a tiny little EEPROM chip placed on all apple hardware giving the operating system a big shiny thumbs up. Thats IT. Theres no solidarity, no design improvements, no actual difference whatsoever. If apple had 25 cents of sense, they'd go solely into software development and leave their last-legs stranglehold on hardware in the past.

b) The title of this article is the ONLY thing that keeps Apple alive. "HIP" attitude, which generally is associated with the unemployed, mindless tools who will follow any trend as long as for a glimmer of a moment they feel they were apart of something, isn't a productive development model. It's stupified, in a sense. They've taken tasks that normally required intuition, intelligence, understanding, and education - and given them the hospital recipe. Bland, bland, and lastly, bland. In that regard, any arguments for mac are absolutely right. The MAC platform is superbly superior to any Microsoft based system when the user wishes to understand nothing. Press the red button, hear a sound. They use similar methods of education to teach a gorilla to feed itself. If your level of operational involvement is simply knowing that when you highlight some labels and press the CD picture a compact disc will be written with a host of predetermined settings that "might" fit your need - then the MAC will not only do it for you - the MAC will save you from a life of secularity - education, intuition, general exercise of the brain all to be spared for more important things like haggard clothes or youtube videos! iMovie, you dog. Without you, the plethora of ignorance displayed on youtube just wouldn't be up to this level. THANKS!

c) All of the halfwitted attempts to discuss issues with software installation. Once again, education is key. Every single software program using Windows Installer can be used with default settings by simply launching with a /CONCISE. Why isn't this default? Because MOST intelligent people want to know what they're doing and where they're putting data. Why? Again, intelligence. Many, many, many people in this world thrive to understand. Understanding operations is the key to something even Apple sucks ass at: SUCCESS. That super amazing marketshare below 10% tells me one thing: The Macintosh model and platform just aren't the winner. NO SUCCESS.

Theres no argument to be made over simple mind operation. If you wish to put your mind at rest while operating a computer, buy a MAC. If you're interested in complete system control, function, operation, and interactivity - the Macintosh wasn't engineered for you in the first place. I for one get my jolly's from accomplishment of tasks. Any statement involving i-ANYTHING that is an attribute to the quality of one's own production will only wind up being profoundly stupid.

Apple's greatest proponent in the software world has been Adobe. Key creator of all things digital, Adobe has a software tool to do just about anything. For years, Adobe and MAC fans have held hands, prayed silently, and hoped that their RISC platforms would remain forever. Unfortunately, even Apple gave up this meaningless fight when it became clear that two 2.4GHz intel cpu cores with 4mb of cache simply devastated the most overclocked, overworked, custom attempt at keeping RISC alive.

Now, Adobe has learned a valuable lesson and is profiting in leaps and bounds from it. The years of programming in a niche market were in vain: CS3 is native to the X86 code - and baby it'll blow your mind.

FINALLY, someone greatly before me compared a 4200$ dell to a 3000$ mac pro. Once again, the only way to potentially discuss this comparison is to refer to you as profoundly stupid. The MAC PRO in its glorious Xeon configuration is no more powerful than a core 2 duo with intel graphics. Apple does not provide ANY of the fantastically significant features that not only make the dell more expensive, but also an unrateable number of times better. The MAC PRO comes with dual Geforce 7300s in a machine that costs 3-large. Have you PRICED a 7300? They're Fifty US dollars. You can even get a discount buying them in bulk -- they're the floppy disk of video cards. Once inside, aside from the quirky fruit stamp on the motherboard, expect to see things standard to any other dual-xeon based workstation. I personally am using a Dell Precision 490 writing this article. Costed 2200 USD at purchase including an ATI FireGL V7200 -- a TRUE workstation development card. It's never bluescreened, never crashed, never a software failure or hardware hiccup. Why? Same reason the MAC PRO is in fact better than an iMac -- its not the last scrape of peanut butter left in the jar. Its one of the best offerings and acts as such.

Macs are too hip for PCs users.
I'll take function over form every single time.

Gec Corp.:

I have used both for all my life (18 yr really, lol) and i think that i still find it easier and "homely" to use Windows but i do think that Windows could be excellent if it combined the advantages of Mac such as the defrag, uninstall process, OS independence, virus free(have nothing to do with OSX but up to hackers and virus-writers) but thats about it.

If you use a Mac i would improve it by rebuilding the GUI to Windows form, its soo hard to navigate and change system settings, same reason why Apple look-alike Linux distros annoy me. Also a cheap right click solution should also be added to Mac. Price and expandability also concerns me although the Macs seem to excellent when it comes to being dust free. Software and hardware compatibilities are my major annoyance.

So really this forest worth of papaer (if i printed out this arguments is a waste of time) as both OS have stupidly designed features and advantages.

I would say that only the theory of windows is better for Power PCs but Macs could have a chance at being top on laptops.

funneydude:

Macs have viruses, yes they do, THOUSANDS of viruses, macvirus.org if you're curious.
AND *ALL* spyware for PC, can just have the same effect on a Macintosh, um, computer. And crash just as much, the brillaint thing about a mac is if it crashes, you don't know why it crashes, the average PC crash can be resolved easy Upgrades aren't that costly, lets review buying 1GB RAM (about $120, if you know where to look), compared to the next model of Mac, which is normally topping $500.
I once read a fictional report that iMacs will only boot up if you put a dollar in, with how much people spend in Apple stores it's a wonder they don't.

To Mac geeks, Out of curoiusity, what do you do, fiddle around in system preferences

And before you start banging away at your pure white, scratches within 10 seconds of use keyboards, I'd like to say something to all who have switched. WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING?

What do people do on the mac if they don't have a movie camera or iPod, it's an ORNIMENT PEOPLES.

You can get a laptop for under $500 test one out and you'll find out that they aren't the bad things those Mac advertising executives think they are, those ads were probably all made with windows movie maker anyway :)

FINALLY (yes i AM getting there):

1. Why is iTunes so great, I can't find any features that are so great about it
2. What ever happened to .mov, why does apple make unique formats, then just go with the generic ones
3.WHY THE HELL DO I HAVE TO PAY TO GET FULL SCREEN IN QUICKTIME WTF
4.for all of you who think iMovie/Final cut pro is so great, haven't tried something like Sony Vagas or Adobe Premier, or Windows Movie Maker. (How many times does iMovie need to render a film before it's on DVD HEAPS, what about burning a film in Windows Movie Maker, no rendering just easy to make easy to burn.)

ballin:

Macs only don't have many viruses is because of scarcity. Why would u write a virus or spyware for a os that less than 5% of computers run.

xAnonymousx:

I really dont have much against Mac's... I'm sure they do their job just fine. Plus, when someone comes to me to ask if i can help fix their Mac, i can say... "nope". Hah. I just think those commercials are funny. I recall one, "Ask not what Vista can do for you, but ask what you can buy for Vista!" Kind of funny Mac knocking on a brand new operating system, which undoubtedly will have service packs to fix any bugs in the not-so-distant-future. This coming from a company that essentially ripped off the core of their operating system from Unix. My response to that Vista quote... "Tell us not what Vista cant do, but tell what your Mac CAN." Or however you'd like to say that.. think you get the point. I heard them mention a new Mac Operating System, but not once was a single feature of that operating system mentioned...just that it has lots of cool new features...ill bet :)

Cy Bernault:

Thanks Adam, brilliant reply unmasking the deceit of the rotten apple.

Having owned various models of the PowerPC range, it was a revelation to discover the poor mac sods dealing with hardware breakdown, design incompetence and corporate greed. Such as the infamous overheating ibooks, overheated G4 MDD 1GHz "wind tunnels" and the G5 mac pro meltdown. The G5 mac pro is an over-priced dinosaur, a museum piece, along with the dysfunctional mac cube.

Own a mac? Buy a screwdriver. Nothing looks better than a peeled apple.

OS X ? Posix in drag; blue rinsed.

Apple should sell its Aqua desktop as an add-on for posix users. Call it "QuickTime".

Tovo:

I fail to see any logic in an argument that suggests that because a system is easy to use it is for "simple" people. Shouldn't every OS be easy to use? Anyway, the suggestion that some people prefer to spend their time fixing faults with their PC has an element of truth to it I think. Knowing how to fix endless registry problems, reinstall the OS, purge virus and spyware problems, reinstall drivers etc etc takes some effort to learn. I guess that having a machine that just works leaves these people feeling a bit bored. I never realised how much time I spent fixing faults until I got a Mac. Expensive? You get what you pay for unless you buy Windows. Vista? Fine unless you want to open 2 applications at once. Vista is the poorest excuse for an OS I have ever had the misfortune to use. Oh and the ads? Love them.

SomeGuySomewhere:

I bought a Mac. I've had loads of problems with it. I put a bad CD in it, and the machine won't boot? HUH? I had to find out how to eject the CD pre OSX loading in order to get my computer back to working.

iTunes crashed alot for a bit, and really made the machine hork. It's better now, but isn't apple software supposed to be perfection encoded?

I assumed Macs being good at publishing, I'd have all sorts of options with Japanese text. Err.. The only non expensive publishing solution, IE, wordprocessor I could find that'd do vertical text layout is MS Word. Word 2004 doesn't work as well as office 2003 on my PC in that department either. I really don't want to have to retype all my furigana...

Garageband is fun.

Ever tried to edit interlaced MPGs on a Mac?

Oh right..

THat's extra.

And buggy.

The few things I thought would be cool on a Mac, Don't work!

Overall though, I feel I wasted money, because I really don't have many problems on my PC, I have a few, but hearing many Mac users talk you'd think they have no issues and that seems to be VERY far from the truth, or at least that's been my experience. I need windows to do all the things I want to do because I can't do them all on a Mac without installing windows. So, what's the point?

My Mac experience hasn't really been better. It's been different. That's the only thing I can really say about it.

Anonymous9988274:

The first computer I ever used was a Mac. I use PC's and Mac's still. Honestly, though, Mac's used to be more expensive, but they also used to be able to do things windows couldn't. More recently (i.e XP, Vista, and OSX), it really comes down to personal preference. So please, stop bitching.

And as of very recently there are viruses out there for Macs (so watch your backs, Mac users...), and as for Linux... it depends on which one, lol. SO many to choose from. And some are markedly better than others.

iPoo a lot:

im actually switching to mac, its unbelievable, but I did. its the biggest mistake I have ever done in my computing life. its none like the ads said. I bought Mac book pro with OSX tiger, and problems just keep coming....

1. the day the shiny mac arrived I found lots of dead pixel on the LCD, ship it back for a new one, new one arrived about a week ( I dont know why took that long)

2. I didnt experience any virus on it, which is impressive but I expereienced lot worse "A HARDWARE FAILURE" ship it back and mac "friendly technician" told me that the RAM failed, so he changed it and sent the Pro back to me

3.I run lots of adobe's on my basic PC just fine, but not here in my shiny mac, for frig sake the CS3 keep crashing. I dont frigin frigin know whats wrong with it, and no one can me, not even 1

4.Im a heavy computer user, I run Photoshop and Illustrator at least at the same time, then I have iTunes and few firefox windows open, I found out the mac is very slow, even on 64-bit architecture, and ofcourse freezes few times in a day and require "RESTART", not actually a restart but a "HARD RESET" which is worse. mac dont require restart... yeh right but it requires hard reset.. that mac ads is just making fun of themself '

5.then the worst come out..... the Leopard "pussy cat dolls". Its completely destroyed my mac. I was convinced by the website ads.... Leopard is compatible with all OSX, upgrade is easy and fast. once I installed Leopard, my mac wont even boot,and I have to pay for their failure, what a real rip off.

there are other problems with macs which I dont need to mention, its getting too long.

I sold my mac, right after it was fixed, guessed what??? I pretended to be a fanboy, I explained just about the same as the mac ad to the buyer, and She was so convinced hahahahahaha.

now I used new shiny LG S1 Pro Laptop with Vista Ultimate on it, and I can only tell you that my LG is a lot more productive, less time consuming, less break down, and $300 cheaper than my Mac pro, and I never spend any penny on softwares, they are all on torrent, for mac user pls install windows first for better chances in torrenting, finding software for mac in torrent site is like finding nemo, just cant find anything, except the basic like MS office etc

Gamers : Windows IT Professional : Windows Military and Government : Windows Offices : Windows Designers : Windows & Mac 80% of this world : Windows the winner is very clear here ppl, if macs is soo good, why ppl choose windows? the answer is what I experienced above, read it carefully before you buy a Mac, its none like the ads said

Does Not Matter:

If I bought a MAC instead of a PC, what are my hardware upgrade options and can I install the hardware upgrades or will I need to send the entire system to a authorised Apple service centre.
Can I have an Apple system with SLI? Am I able to change the PCIe graphics card without requiring an Apple technician to install it, how many SATA2 HDD's can I attach? I'm sure one of these Apple die hards can answer these questions in their sleep.
I await the answers
"hehehe"

Dremoney:

Im sick and tired of people who have never owned a MAC and only heard rumors. You can do anything upgrade wise to a MAC that you can to windows except upgrade the video card and the processor, although there is a slot for the video card, no one makes the card type and by the time you upgrade your processor its time to get a new computer. I've used Windows all my life and grudge going back mainly cause all the constant upgrades, the watching out of virus and spam, my mother still haS a windows computer and I have to visit her once a month to get rid of her spyware/adware and have had to reinstall windows XP (cause vista sucks so much she cried that she did not want to use it again) 3 times already. Meanwhile my Grand Mother (Fathers side of the family) is far less computer savy, but took my advice and bought a MAC and she loves IT. I only visit her to trade software and show her cool stuff she can and now we just video chat on ICHAT. I was like you once having never really owned a MAC i used to tell my friend that his MAC was shit and for a lot less i could get the same hardware on a PC, which is true, but what makes MAC different is the OS, it crushes Windows. Also MAC reselling value is far greater than an PC. For instance i bought my laptop MACBOOK for 1200 sold it for 1100 more than a year later, no PC will do that. Also programs run more smoothly no missing DLL files and far greater ability to multi-task. Windows is good but i have Windows on my machine and can run it as a virtual instance or bootcamp it, and by doing this i can do whatever you guys can do if needed, which i almost never do, but i was able to enjoy crysis =P. Anyway i don't hate Windows, I just get mad when people say MAC sucks and they can't do anything, when they have never owned a MAC makes them sound real ignorant and most of you all will lie and say you have owned one, then turn around and say you can't right click. I have owned Windows as have most MAC users so our argument is more fact based on having owned both. Most Window users on the other hand blurt crap out of the rear ends that they truly have no idea about cause they have never owned a MAC. I don't want you all to switch over cause then there would be tons of MAC users and people would start making more viruses for the MAC. Stay with your virus/spyware/adware/malware infested Windows and I will stay with my OSX.

Now that my rant is done

No you can do all the installations yourself. Upgrade Ram and hard drive are the only options you have. And most computer users only upgrade their ram harddrive and video card. 2 out of 3. If you have a MACPRO you can do quiet a few, IMAC only one as far as the hard drives go.

Dremoney:

You are a idiot, people choose Windows cause its cheaper and they are not informed about MAC. You said you got a Macbook Pro, but your LG laptop is 300 dollars cheaper than your Mac pro, confusing the Mac pro with a Macbook Pro is not a mistake that a MAC user would make, you are also a liar. And for finding software in Mac for torrent, its available I have a friend who goes to the piratesbay, your also a pirate by the way. So I am suppose to believe a liar/stealer/idiot ? and let just say you were telling the truth, you still lied to that lady you sold your Mac to (pretended to be a fanboy). You are not a ethical person and I sir do not believe your argument!

shazam:

i use pc nd have all my life but i still say mac is far better nd im 14 nd cn prove tht

reasons:
vista aero nd stuff is basicly like mac interface

google worlds best laptops/ computers nd see how many say mac

Q) if pc is so gud y havnt many peeps upgrade 2 vista?

A) vista has alot of problems even whilst instaling
hmmm ever heard of tht happen 2 a mac os

lochie :

Don't you just love the "Mac is Better, No Windows is better" Im on holiday and its a great way to pass time before i go to bed. Im not going to try to brag or anything, but my family does have money, so we have MAC and WINDOWS. I used to love WINDOWS but recently went to MAC. I use them both equally as much, i have a $2500 HP Pavilion with Vista on it, and i also have a $12,000 Mac Pro which i got for my 13th Birthday ( not trying to brag again) (im only 14 now) I love both of them and they can both be used for different things

gogobobo:

Intel macs = pcs, same hardware (intel processors, same ram, ati/nvidia video cards etc) save some proprietary hardware in the macs, and pretty casing..

Google "hackintosh" sometime.. and talk to the users using it... macs arent any better than pcs, they are the same now.. OSX is a unix based OS, thats all.. Windows is crap, we all know that... pcs running linux are no different than macs running osx..

another point to realize is as mentioned in one of the past posts, Vista looks like OSX.. but OSX looks like older versions of linux.. they look like Workbench 3.11 on the Amiga, which was around strong back in the early 90's.. really, where are the OS designers going to go? holographic images? anything else would be considered look-alike to something thats already in the market..

I'm sick of the whining both sides are doing.. How bout you just use what you use and quit bitching at everyone who doesnt agree...

Jennifer:

What is this, a d*** measuring contest? Clearly the PC users feel inadequate. Hence the hatred for something they know nothing about. Cracks me up.

Anonymous noob:

Why lock UNIX away in the server room or an the mainframe?
You, your users, your staff all deserve a UNIX based PC on their desk/lap.
Wait there's more, you have multiple choices, Linux or Mac OS X, take your pick.

justthething84:

What's a Mac? An Apple. What's a PC? A computer.

Mac&PC guy:

You will see better on a middle higher ground than shouting around at the end of another valley. Opportunity aplenty. No reason to be a fanatic.

Carl:

I like the one where Macs never display a "syntax error" message.

For those who don't know (presumably Mac users), a syntax error is actually an error that you (the user) make while you are programming a computer.

It is not an error the machine makes.

Carl

peter headford:

i saw the ad mentioned and it was at a low point in my relationship with my ppppppppc, funny how i tend to stutter over two letters.my knowledge of computers is so so and i use my computer to write letters ,make out my work invoices,surf the net,process photos ,i play scrabble but not into games in general.
so far we have had two EXPERTS(thats what they said they were)who both said Whats the problem ,to which i replied ,i simply want to write letters and process photos to surf the net to play scrabble .that is it pure and simple .
after get new this and new that after,uninstalling and re installing oops sorry i just deleted your scrabble ,oops sorry your tv card does not seem to be working as good as it use to .
anyway the mac ad said WE SIMPLY DO IT.
SO WE BOUGHT A MAC BOOK the day leopard os 10.5 hit the shelves in Sydney and guess what IT SIMPLY DOES EVERYTHING I WANT IT TO DO .bloody perfect