Microsoft hobbles XP mini-notes with 1GB RAM limit

TheSundayTalk (New user):

Ummm - why the Microsoft bashing (apart from the fact that it's fashionable)? Surely if vendors are putting in more than 1gb of RAM, they might as well stick Vista onto the machine, since that'll make better use of the memory anyway?

I totally agree with Microsoft on this one - not only will this help to keep the mini-note prices down to around the $500 mark (remember, the beefier the specs, the more the machine will cost), but if the vendor really wants to offer a Windows-based machine with more than 1gb of memory, then it makes sense to stick Windows Vista on the drive.

Unless, of course, people are just gonna reply with "oh, but Vista sucks - XP is awesome!", in which case I give up. :)

Chris (New user):

XP is faster than Vista. No matter what advantages Vista has this is a fact. XP uses less Hard Drive space. again fact. The idea of Vista on these cheap notebooks is stupid. As for it keeping the price down, have you seen the price of RAM?
I know that a lot of these arguments can be anwser with "Why not get linux?" But that's a different point all together.

TheSundayTalk (New user):

Yeah, and Windows 98 is faster than XP - and Windows 3.11 is faster than 98. :)

Hell, let's just all go back to DOS 6.22 and have REALLY fast computers! ;)

Tin (User):

XP was usable even on lower end boxes at the time of it's release. I know, because I had a pre-release copy and an older PC.

Vista on the other hand is running like crap on my desktop, which isn't exactly a low end box. How well do you think it would run on a device that's purposely slow?

djenner (New user):

Quoting TheSundayTalk:
Hell, let's just all go back to DOS 6.22 and have REALLY fast computers! ;)

I suspect you are a well-meaning end-user with very few systems to shepherd. Vista was from the outset and remains a support nightmare. For my clients, it means losing access to network printers, especially in an environment where they are not prepared to roll out a complete every-system Vista upgrade. Driver issues remain paramount, in particular. Upgrading in many cases means new hardware before the costs of the old hardware is fully amortized.

Essentially, Vista is frick-the-client product from a company with a business model that is looking very shabby as it ages. It's nice for folks who have one, maybe two computers to deal with in the home, or a small office. Once you move to an organization with, say, more than a dozen machines, XP offers all the advantages and none of the compatibility problems of Vista.

djenner (New user):

Quoting TheSundayTalk:
Hell, let's just all go back to DOS 6.22 and have REALLY fast computers! ;)

I suspect you are a well-meaning end-user with very few systems to shepherd. Vista was from the outset and remains a support nightmare. For my clients, it means losing access to network printers, especially in an environment where they are not prepared to roll out a complete every-system Vista upgrade. Driver issues remain paramount, in particular. Upgrading in many cases means new hardware before the costs of the old hardware is fully amortized.

Essentially, Vista is frick-the-client product from a company with a business model that is looking very shabby as it ages. It's nice for folks who have one, maybe two computers to deal with in the home, or a small office. Once you move to an organization with, say, more than a dozen machines, XP offers all the advantages and none of the compatibility problems of Vista.

Tin (User):

Oh look... Another MS goon trying to tell us Vista is better.
Newsflash: Vista is SLOWER on the same hardware, and RAM is so cheap now that 2GB would only boost the manufacture price of the device by about $10 (over the 1GB).

Again MS is restricting what customers want to push a product they don't want. Simple option: Get the Linux models. If 6 months down the track you still don't like the differences, grab a VLK copy of XP from somewhere and put that on (I don't condone piracy, but if the bear won't come to the market, you can't buy it).

Aubrey (New user):

If it "makes sense", as you say, then why would vendors do otherwise? I think that fact that Microsoft feels the need to adopt (further) anti-competitive measures in their agreements with OEMs is an indicator that it really doesn't "make sense".

Raindog (New user):

Quoting TheSundayTalk:
Ummm - why the Microsoft bashing (apart from the fact that it's fashionable)?

Being right, is always fashionable.



Quoting TheSundayTalk:
Surely if vendors are putting in more than 1gb of RAM, they might as well stick Vista onto the machine, since that'll make better use of the memory anyway?

These mini-note PCs have CPU with less MIPS than an abandoned Pomeranian. Vista mini-note that's funny.

agami (New user):

I wouldn't worry about it too much. An aspiring hacker will remove the 1GB RAM ceiling before you can say "Windows Vista is a memory hog and will only be viable for mini-notes in a couple of years".

BrownieBoy (User):

>> Yeah, and Windows 98 is faster than XP - and Windows
>> 3.11 is faster than 98. :)

Correct. But each of those OSes offered something above and beyond what its predecessor could do. E.g., Windows 95/98 added long file names and 32 bit memory addressing (of a sort) which made it better than 3.11. (They had a nicer UI too). XP was based on the NT codestream, instead of the DOS codestream of 3.11/95/98, so it was much more stable and scaleable. That's why users (and companies) were prepared to pay out for new machines so that they could get those extra benefits.

And what does Vista offer over and above XP? Eff all that anybody can discern. End users can't see where all the extra processing power and RAM required is actually going, and that's the problem. The user experience is no better than XP. In fact, plenty of anecdotal evidence points to it being worse, not helped by the draconian DRM that's embedded into Vista, at the behest of Microsoft's Hollywood friends.

I'm delighted Microsoft's doing this 1 Gig RAM restriction, by the way. It can only drive even more users into the arms of Linux. And as it's yet another blatant attempt to game the market to its advantage, there's a good chance that it will land it in (even) more hot water with the European Commission; the only body that has the balls to stand up to Microsoft these days.

dwr50 (New user):

I spent all day yesterday on the web doing the same things I usually do on my Vista box, using my Linux box, the exact same things. The Linux box worked 100%. The point is, Micro$ can no longer dictate to me or anyone that uses Linux. Just because a computer comes with Windoz or Crapple doesn't mean user's are stuck with it.

Acer Aspire 5315-2153, $348 Walmart Special,Mandriva Linux 2008.1 Spring Edition

Ahmed (New user):

He he, funny post but Linux has a long way to go.

Why should a net-top come with more than 1Gb RAM? Especially if it's not running Vista. XP ran fine on my 450Mhz K7 with 512MB RAM - as you mentioned already.

1. MS wants to limit the number of manufacturers sticking with XP but XP is only being sold on net-tops because Vista won't run well on them and they have to limit Linux market share somehow. (The EEE PC first came with a Celeron 900Mhz clocked at approx 600Mhz remember).

2. The 1.6Ghz Atom runs Vista fine with 1GB RAM so why sell it with XP on? Because MS needs to limit Linux market share so it sells XP Home to these guys for 25 USD. They ship it with Linux otherwise.

3. They won't allow UMPCs to be sold with XP installed instead of Vista and they have to draw a line in the ground to differentiate Net-tops with UMPCs so they have to pull limits out of the air. The new limits are a lot looser than the originals, at least we can get net-tops with a touchscreen now.

Tin (User):

Quoting Ahmed:
He he, funny post but Linux has a long way to go.

Funny post yourself... I actually consider that it's Windows that has a long way to go. Especially Vista.

Also, have you tried Linux in the last 2 years, Ahmed? I suspect you either haven't, or you gave up after 5 minutes of having your Windows ways not get you far.
Put simply, most who complain about Linux not being ready, are simply unable to perform simple problem solving (which makes me wonder how some people manage to buy food or put the garbage out).

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Ahmed:

Why should a net-top come with more than 1Gb RAM?

Because it can affordably be done by manufacturers and allows their products to better meet customer expectations.



Quoting Ahmed:
Especially if it's not running Vista.

At least you recognise that the entry point for Vista has much higher demands than its direct competitors. Those competitors are able to run at a lower entry point but can still take advantage of the additional resources. What is the consumer advantage from the MS decision to enforce a crippling of the platform they will allow to be licenced?

Quoting Ahmed:
XP ran fine on my 450Mhz K7 with 512MB RAM

your definition of fine would fall well below that of most of the marketplace.


Quoting Ahmed:
MS wants to limit the number of manufacturers sticking with XP

And the market has demonstrated it prefers XP to Vista in most instances. Only fools ignore their marketplaces needs, wants and desires.


Quoting Ahmed:
but XP is only being sold on net-tops because Vista won't run well on them and they have to limit Linux market share somehow.

So all 1Gb+ Mini notes shipped will now be shipped with a non MS operating system on them. All the flagship model will likely be Linux now. Do you think this was MS's brightest move?


Quoting Ahmed:
(The EEE PC first came with a Celeron 900Mhz clocked at approx 600Mhz remember).

The first EEE was shipped with Linux remember. Maybe that had something to do with the ability of that OS to still run well on limited hardware.

Quoting Ahmed:
The 1.6Ghz Atom runs Vista fine with 1GB RAM so why sell it with XP on?

Again a wide definition of fine. If the market prefers to buy machines with XP and hopefully 1GB+ of RAM shouldn't the question be, "Why would MS want to restrict sales of XP when its customers are showing clear preference for this?".

Quoting Ahmed:
Because MS needs to limit Linux market share so it sells XP Home to these guys for 25 USD. They ship it with Linux otherwise.

Which just makes it plain dumb for them to limit sales of XP of a machine specification which can readily be offered to the marketplace as Linux equipped.


Quoting Ahmed:
Because MS needs to limit Linux market share


Quoting Ahmed:
They won't allow UMPCs to be sold with XP installed instead of Vista

Despite the demands of customers not matching those decisions. Actually your statement is not entirely correct there is now an ever growing sector of Vista licensed PC s in a variety of configurations being legally shipped with XP preinstalled. I'd expect MS to adopt the same face saving cop out with micro machines pretty quickly if higher specification micros begin selling in numbers with Linux as the major offering.


Quoting Ahmed:
and they have to draw a line in the ground to differentiate Net-tops with UMPCs so they have to pull limits out of the air.

Will anyone else recognise this air pulled differentiation? The marketplace will certainly not impose any such distinction.


Quoting Ahmed:
The new limits are a lot looser than the originals, at least we can get net-tops with a touchscreen now.

Like any growing market share the changes and new releases will often. And in the wash-up MS is trying to manipulate a market sector where their product arguably offer the least advantage or differentiation over their competitors. This artificially imposed 1Gb limit like most of their Vista/XP decisions is just plain dumb.

Me In Oz (User):

Sounds like good business sense to me ! And in case you all have forgotten, MS is a business !

And as an aside to you Raindog ! Time to seek out a girlfriend mate !
Your long posts answering others point-by-point shows you have way to much time (along with other things) on your hands !

Start posting your own ideas and stop using sarcasm ...... it is the lowest form of wit !

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Me In Oz:

Sounds like good business sense to me !

Now why doesn't that surprise me? :>

Quoting Me In Oz:
And in case you all have forgotten

I can assure you we have not forgotten. :>



Quoting Me In Oz:
MS is a business !

Well it is for the time being.


Quoting Me In Oz:
shows you have way to much time (along with other things) on your hands !

You have to dedicate your time to the areas of greatest need! :>

Quoting Me In Oz:
Start posting your own ideas

Who's ideas do you think I am posting?



Quoting Me In Oz:
and stop using sarcasm .

But being cynical all the time is just tiresome, dont you think.
On consideration, no you probably do not. :>

http://tnetech.net (New user):

I can not see why people are buying stripped back and downgraded laptops.
Why would you do this?
You can get a decent laptop for $500 or so on eBay. Buy it from a powerseller with good feedback you want have any issues at all.

http://tnetech.net

Tin (User):

Widen your mind. Not everyone is the same.
I had intended to buy an Eee from the day I heard about them. I wanted something small and cheap for various members of our family to take away when travelling.

And DET NSW are looking for similar devices to the Eee (not the Eee though, most likely) as part of the Rudd government's spending on IT. One small flash based laptop per student.

Raindog (New user):

I can't help thinking that the previous poster may have a point though Tin, and while there are circumstances where Eee like PCs may be the best fit outside of junior education I dont see too many.

I'm sure the good majority of Eee's purchased thus far are from geeks who have just had to have one, and who are now trying to justify that purchase. What other unique uses are there, niche ones for sure but mass market?

For most the Eee represents pretty poor value against budget Notebooks and you do not have to got to E-Bay to find better value there are many name much higher specified brand machines within $100 of the Eee.

It will be interesting to see how big the micro PC market is and for how long it continues. Will thay end up in that gadget draw besides those must have early palm pilots?

AndyCee (New user):

What's wrong with a product for a niche market?

As for other niches:
* Business - people required to travel and give frequent updates online (easier to type on than pda, lighter than notebook)
- Thin clients
* Uni students with online lecture notes & discussions
* Wardrivers (not condoning, just saying...)
* Anyone except gamers/photoshop/video-modelling users, now that I think of it...

Value isn't just a dollar measurement. If I'm strapped for cash and need internet access & word processor, $100 for an extra gig of ram, faster processor & graphics card may be irrelevant.