NAMED AND SHAMED: the most complained-about ISPs

Dan Warne
22 October 2008, 4:30 PM


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The results are in: the top 10 ISPs in Australia. But they won't exactly be popping champagne corks.


The 2007-08 report from the Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman (TIO) puts the industry's two biggest ISPs at the top of the list — Telstra BigPond, with 19,364 complaints, followed by Optus with 9,063. Given each of them has millions of customers, those complaint stats aren't entirely surprising.

A much smaller ISP, Dodo, with only 'tens of thousands' of customers (according to its website) is the third most complained about ISP, with 6,683 complaints. We've covered Dodo's massive complaint volumes before:

However, it's worth noting that Dodo's stats, while still very high, are significantly reduced on last year's figures. 6,683 internet-related complaints for the year is very low compared to the 15,937 complaints it received the year previously.

AAPT follows with 3,206 complaints, Virgin Mobile with 2,625, Soul Communications with 2,513, Blitz Telecom with 2,266, TPG Internet with 2,089, Primux with 2,081 and iiNet with 1,825.

The TIO charges ISPs for each complaint received, with fees ranging from $31 to $2915 depending on the difficulty of the complaint resolution. And no, there's no bulk discount, meaning the more complaints an ISP receives, the more it gets billed by the TIO each year.

According to the TIO's published statistics, it would have billed Telstra around $604,000, Optus Broadband $156,000 and Dodo $285,000 in complaint resolution fees for internet-related issues.

The CEO of one well-known ISP, speaking to APC on condition of anonymity, said it was well known within the industry that some telcos find it cheaper to pay complaint penalties to the TIO than to fund better customer service.

The bad news for consumers is that resolving complaints is a lengthy process. The TIO doesn’t release times for 'level 1' complaints, where a consumer complains, the TIO writes to the ISP and no further action is taken. However, any complaint that reaches a level 2 status takes an average of nearly three months to be sorted out. Pray that your complaint doesn't get taken all the way to level 4 — they take six months to sort out, on average.


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sjaeger172004 (New user):

As we all didn't know Telstra was the worst ISP.

22 October 2008, 5:15 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Obi-Wan Kenobi (New user):

I'm surprised. I would've thought Telstra's complaints would be double that.

22 October 2008, 5:52 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

McBanjo (New user):

I love the idea that they get a bill for treating customers like sh*t. I'm gonna be sending in complaints much more often now.

22 October 2008, 6:14 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (New user):

Quoting McBanjo:
I'm gonna be sending in complaints much more often now.

And have the costs of extra TIO penalties factored into yours and everyone else's telco charges. Yeah, bright thinking, that!



22 October 2008, 6:21 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (New user):

In all fairness to Telstra and Optus (not that Telstra deserves any even handedness) these statistics are nothing but meaningless government pap.

Telstra's ceaselessly annoying saturation advertising isn't exactly pitched at those with a clue. It's aimed squarely at the new and confused and at that those too stupid to do any research. So it's little wonder Telstra's complaint stats are as high as their exorbitant pricing.

Optus is pitching a good proportion of their efforts at the same demographic too so when things don't work as easily as the talking giraffe said that same lunatic fringe is in "complain first, sort it out logically later" mode.

There is a hell of a lot that Australian telecommunications could do better that would reduce many of the complaints. But you only have to spend a few minutes on whirlpool to see how many whiny nut-jobs with unrealistic expectations there are out there.
Until these raw complaint statistics are evaluated and the vexatious ones removed they are mostly meaningless.

As for Dodo, well what can you say, anyone who has read their media or watched their advertisements and then gone ahead with a contract, simply deserved what they got. Clearly much they offer is unsustainable.

22 October 2008, 6:18 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Rextacy (New user):

i would be interested in what percentage of customers signed up actually complain. telstra may have the most complaints but is it disproportional to the number of customers?

ps. dont think im trying to defend telstra here, im just curious.

22 October 2008, 6:27 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (User):

I was thinking the same thing... And also same "ps" on this comment too ;-)

23 October 2008, 9:18 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

angusj (New user):

While anecdotally interesting, these raw numbers don't mean a lot without comparing them with the total customer numbers. Likewise, other ISPs may have much higher relative complaint/customer ratios than those mentioned in this article. Having said that, Telstra apparently has over 10 times the number of complaints that iiNet has. I'm sure Telstra's customer base is no where near 10 times the size of iiNet's.

22 October 2008, 8:06 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (New user):

Quoting angusj:
I'm sure Telstra's customer base is no where near 10 times the size of iiNet's.

For better or worse Telstra holds a massive share of the marketplace. Often because Telstra has effectively blocked its competitors from gaining access. With Telstra share equalling the sum of its competitors and that sum including major players such as Optus, Internode, iiNet, IPrimus and all the small players, that 10 times factor wont be too far out.

The other thing to keep in mind is that with much of the competitor access being limited to Telstra resale, a good portion of the complaints about other ISPs will when examined actually be complaints against Telstra service in it's wholesale form.


22 October 2008, 8:44 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dan Warne (Regular user):

It could well be. It's quite possible, for example, that Telstra has 3 million internet customers while iiNet only has 300,000. The gap between Telstra/Optus and all the other ISPs in terms of customer numbers is absolutely vast. (Obviously saturation marketing works.) That said, those numbers are pulled entirely out of my head.

22 October 2008, 11:34 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Dan Warne:
The gap between Telstra/Optus and all the other ISPs in terms of customer numbers is absolutely vast. (Obviously saturation marketing works.)

Saturation marketing and an ability to hider or dictate the capabilities of it's opposition. Your 10 to 1 number may be a guess but I'd suggest on consideration that they are a very accurate guess.



23 October 2008, 2:01 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Adam or thetron (New user):

@Raindog most of the smaller or companies rely on first/second tier to provide them with services. In some cases the ISP not infault or gets the blame and not the supplier/wholesaler.



In the TIO minds. You run business and your business choice of which carriers is your supplier/wholesaler for services. If you know that wholesalers going to screw you around alot and you bought a dsl tail from that wholesaler/supplier


When customer lodges a complaint about the ISP service. You the ISP is responsibly to the client that ensures you can provide a good and repliable service. it's not the wholesalers fault and if it the wholesaler will just give you a SLA agreement if your behind



24 October 2008, 10:12 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Adam or thetron:
In the TIO minds. You run business and your business choice of which carriers is your supplier/wholesaler for services.

In most case you could say what choice? In most cases there is now choice! And Telstra manipulates this for all their worth.


Quoting Adam or thetron:
When customer lodges a complaint about the ISP service. You the ISP is responsibly to the client that ensures you can provide a good and repliable service.

The quality of the service delivered will always be dependant on the reliability of wholesale providers service.


Quoting Adam or thetron:
it's not the wholesalers fault

I think you will find that more often than not it is. Have you looked at the Telsta wholesale fault pages lately? You know, the faults they log after they are eventually cleared.


Quoting Adam or thetron:
and if it the wholesaler will just give you a SLA agreement

SLA don't keep the bits flying across the either. Have a read of one, its the same we'll attempt to care but take no responsibility that you would get from a gas or electrical supply authority.


24 October 2008, 10:35 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Penguin (New user):

Primux with 2,081 unless it was supposed to say Primus it must be a new ISP!

22 October 2008, 8:18 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Kevmeister (New user):

What a stupid piece of reporting. Of course Telstra and Optus are going to have the largest number of complaints because they are the two biggest providers in the market.

What you should have shown is the number of complaints per 1000 customers or something which is comparable across all ISPs irrespective of size.

Dumb, just dumb.

22 October 2008, 8:51 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Hemma (New user):

Shouldn't the statistics be based on percentage against number of customers rather than number of complaints received annually?

22 October 2008, 9:24 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dan Warne (Regular user):

Unfortunately the TIO doesn't report (and ISPs don't disclose) customer numbers, so it can't be done that way. I agree, it would be a MUCH fairer way of reporting the numbers, but this is the best data available.

22 October 2008, 11:32 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Chaon (New user):

Bigpond may have the biggest number of complaints to th TIO but if you look at the customers:complaints ratio is is no where near the top.
Telstra Bigpond may be a dinosaur of ISP quality and speed but they have a decent ratio of complainst to customers.
With only 10's of 1,000's of customers the level of complaints for Dodo is obscene.
Dodo may be the worst ISP in Australia according to these TIO figures.

23 October 2008, 1:35 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me In Oz (User):

Quoting Chaon:
Telstra Bigpond may be a dinosaur of ISP quality

Hang on ! Lets be fair here and give kudos to where it's due.
Telstra's coverage, speed and reliability is much better than its competitors ................. It's their pricing and after-sales support that suck !





24 October 2008, 9:27 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Me In Oz:
Hang on ! Lets be fair here and give kudos to where it's due.

How is having a practical stranglehold over competitors and the marketplace a reason for kudos.


Quoting Me In Oz:
Telstra's coverage, speed and reliability is much better than its competitors .................

On the question of coverage Telstra have no peer, the reason being the aforementioned stranglehold.

But in terms of speed reliability and quality of service (not to mention customer service) Telstra is far from a clear leader and in fact not the leader at all. We were talking broadband and not over-billed 3G giggle-phones after all.


Quoting Me In Oz:
It's their pricing and after-sales support that suck !

Government sanctioned piracy at its finest.


24 October 2008, 9:41 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

UncleSam (New user):

Just ranking based upon the number of complaints is not the right measure. This would mean that the ISP with a large customer base would have a numerically large complaint count.

A better ranking would have to be based upon a ratio of the number of complaints divided by the number of customers.

There are of course other finer methods, however in a simplistic sense the above ratio would present a fair picture.

May I therefore request that this article be appropriately revised and the results be reworked?

23 October 2008, 8:52 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (New user):

Quoting UncleSam:
May I therefore request that this article be appropriately revised and the results be reworked?

Request all you like, but as has been stated above, more accurate data does not exist, all that is available is the simplistic and politically motivated numbers we already have.



23 October 2008, 8:59 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Cameron (New user):

Level 4 complaint taking 6 months to resolve, yeah right! I've got an open complaintand it's only at level 3, it's been open now for over 6 months! I think the TIO needs to treble their fees, at least. The Telco's need to ahve the fear of god in them about complaints getting put through to the TIO.

23 October 2008, 9:26 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (User):

Quoting Cameron:
I think the TIO needs to treble their fees, at least.


Awesome idea... Are you going to start paying the fees for when morons go straight to the TIO before talking to the ISP? Or when morons seek the help of the TIO to get ISPs to do something beyond the control of the ISP?

23 October 2008, 9:37 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Cameron (New user):

The TIO doesn't accept complaints from people unless they have been through the correct complaint and escilation process with their service provider first. So the only reason you can actually open a complaint with the TIO is if your Telco has failed to address your issue.

Is it unreasonable for these comlaints to be escilated to the TIO?

23 October 2008, 9:45 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (User):

Quoting Cameron:
Is it unreasonable for these comlaints to be escilated to the TIO?


When it's a petty attack on the ISP, yes. And plenty do it. People are starting to see the TIO as some kind of lever you can pull to make an ISP do what you want regardless of how sane the request was.

23 October 2008, 10:08 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

JGrant (New user):

In my experience, and others I know, Telstra and iinet are fast to contact and are helpful, where Optus and AAPT require long waits on the phone with sometimes unhelpful and rude 'assistance'.

The number of complaints, as everyone seems to agree, doesn't decide who's better or worse necessarily.

23 October 2008, 12:18 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymouse (New user):

As the TIO accepts ALL "complaints" at "face value", the statistics do not show those complaints that are later found "in favour" of the ISP - the statistic remains even if the complaint was unfounded, unjustified or even irrelevant.

Most ISPs can't afford the time and effort involved in begging for the unjustified "complaint" to be downgraded to an "enquiry" (the only way to make the statistic go away).

24 October 2008, 3:21 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

hrg (New user):

Dan,

To your point about the ratio of complaints to subscribers (or services as most ISPs usually report). Here's a quick chart based on the FY2008 TIO stats and the reported number of internet services of Telstra, Optus, iiNet and Westnet (as at 30 June 08) according to their latest financial reports. This shows the number of complaint issues per 1000 internet services, which shows why looking at the ratio of complaints instead of absolute numbers is probably more revealing.



28 October 2008, 4:45 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (User):

Quick... Make the graph public or you'll look like a fool ;-)

(and once you do, I guess I will look the fool).

28 October 2008, 4:48 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

hrg (New user):

Ok, take 2

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pIMWKqFQfWVbUqXLcCjxnGw


28 October 2008, 5:15 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

hrg (New user):

Take 2 - shuld be a graph of complaints ratios

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pIMWKqFQfWVbUqXLcCjxnGw

28 October 2008, 5:18 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (New user):

The graph is about as meaningless as the raw statistics, are there only 4 ISPs who have complaints against them? Are the stats for DSL, wireless or all services, do they take into account the influence of wholesalers?

Lies, damn lies and politically expedient statistics.

28 October 2008, 5:30 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

hrg (New user):

raindog

The methodology is listed in the previous post. It's based on the TIO internet complaint issue stats and the published subscriber numbers of the ISPs in question. The Telstra figure is for retail broadband only, whilst Optus includes an unknown amount of wholesale ULL services.

(1) It's limited to those four because they are the only ones I could quickly get a reliable figure on for total internet services. As someone else already pointed out, most ISPs don't publish their subscriber (services) metrics. AAPT have stopped publishing dial-up numbers and TPG-Soul didn't puiblish dial numbers only broadband. Primus haven't published subscriuber stats for a good time now.

(2) It's total internet services in operation. i.e. it includes fixed and wireless broadband + dial. I'd have thought this was clear from the labelling on the graph which says Internet services (not, broadband, dial or wireless)

(3) How would you like these ratios to take into account wholesalers? There really is no way, except to perhaps analyse the figures minus the "faults" category.

They're more meaningful than the raw stats because an end user can actually understand relative complaint performance between the ISPs. All els ebeign equal, the biggest provider will alwayds have the most complaints




28 October 2008, 6:19 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (New user):

Quoting hrg:
(1) It's limited to those four because they are the only ones I could quickly get a reliable figure on for total Internet services.

So essentially statistics based on incomplete data.


Quoting hrg:
(2)I'd have thought this was clear from the labelling on the graph which says Internet services

Thanks for the clarification.


Quoting hrg:
(3) How would you like these ratios to take into account wholesalers?

It's not a matter of how I'd like it presented. I'm simply stating there is insufficient data to draw any useful conclusion. Tesltra, Pipe, Comindico and Optus wholesale can impact greatly on the smaller ISPs and can do so for extended periods of time.


Quoting hrg:
They're more meaningful than the raw stats

True, but still far from meaningful.

Quoting hrg:
because an end user can actually understand relative complaint performance between the ISPs.

Can they? Optus for example is oversubscribed for wireless services, to use the graph you presented when looking for ADSL you would likely avoid Optus for a problem you would not encounter.



strong>Quoting hrg:
the biggest provider will always have the most complaints

That is in direct contradiction to the graph you presented!
A large player will likely have more complaints numerically but not necessarily proportionally. And how does this theory explain such a high representation by Dodo?


28 October 2008, 6:45 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Travellin' Man (New user):

We,the Australian public are probably one the most gullible and market controlled consumers in the modern world, especially when the marketers play on our 'one-upmanship' mentality. This also involves peer pressure from children & adults alike and makes us perfect "fodder" for the slick marketing machines of manufacturers & retailers.
According to statistics Australia had the biggest uptake of mobile phones when they were first introduced and the hands of multinationals and big business rubbed in anticipation at what they could do. And they have done it like taking candy from a baby. Now it's the turn of the broadband networks and do they care if 10% of their customers whinge about poor or no service. NO! The other 90% compensates very nicely, thank you.
I have just completed a 5 week battle with Optus over my mobile phone. I won a moral (&physical) victory in the end but, only by sheer bloodymindedness & persistance. Don't take rubbish from these people, stand up and fight. You put these matters in the 'too hard basket' and they win.
The Irish have a common expression. "A fool and his money deserve to be parted".

Travellin' Man.

09 November 2008, 11:11 AM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

RJbiz (New user):

TPG:
I find it hard to imagine that TPG is not up in the top ones.
Just google with TPG complaints, you will soon see the list of happies.

I have been trying to get a VOIP phone problem sorted fot four months, and it is still going.
All you get to talk to are the curry eaters.
I have involed the Ombudman but they apparently are so back logged that they will get to mine in ten to twelve weeks, How good is That?

It is so bad I have put up a site www.tpgcomplaints.com to at least let others know what you get after signing up.

If there any others having problems I would love to hear from you.

Rod Yeatman

06 January 2009, 3:15 PM (4 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

affinity (New user):

Does Dodo have as many customers as last year? The real figures would be the percentage of users whom complained.

30 March 2010, 12:59 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

affinity (New user):

Does Dodo have as many customers as last year? The real figures would be the percentage of users whom complained.

30 March 2010, 1:19 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

atlinkwifisadcustomer (New user):

atLink WiFi's Corporate Office
13431 North Broadway Ext; Suite 120
Oklahoma City, OK 73114
Phone (405) 753-7151
Fax (405) 753-7175
Accepted Government grants to provide internet service to rural Oklahoma yet rarely provides consistent uptime. Their tier 2 support (their best) says of their latest outage that it will be a week at least before they can return full service because they do not have the knowledge to even diagnose the problem much less repair it. This seems like a case where a Company is defrauding it customers and the Government, since it applied for and accepted grant money.

01 January 2013, 6:28 PM (4 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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