"Only Telstra can win fibre network tender"

Dan Warne15 April 2008, 12:47 PM

“Unless someone has a flux capacitor handy, we’re in deep shit,” says Bevan Slattery, CEO of Pipe Networks, about the tender for Australia’s fibre network.


Slattery says there is “no comprehensible way anyone can put together a proposal in 90 days or even two years [for the national broadband network]  without the information” because none of the tenderers have been provided any information about where the Telstra pillars are located – a critical piece of information for designing a broadband network.

“Doc Brown said ‘the Flux capacitor is what makes time travel possible…’ and unless someone has a flux capacitor handy, we’re in deep shit,” said Slattery.

“The lack of time is almost criminal. The federal government allows more time for supply tenders for its photocopiers. They are seriously asking companies to design a $16billion network in 90 days,” he said.

Speaking at the CommsDay Summit broadband conference this morning, Slattery also reviewed what the government promised before the election, and what they are now promising post-election.

“Before the election, I asked the Minister a number of times, whether he seriously wanted to deliver 12 megabits per second symmetrical over a Fibre to the Node network, and his answer was yes -- and anything else would be fraudband,” said Slattery.

Labor promised before the election: national fibre to the node, coverage of 98% of all Australians, 12MBit/s symmetrical, at a cost of $8.7bn.

Post election, the government subtly but significantly changed its promise, according to Slattery.

It is now promising national FTTN “and/or wireless” with a speed of 12Mbit/s or equivalent (but not necessarily symmetrical.) The coverage is still promised to be 98% population and the cost is still to be $8.7billion.

“The network proposed is now very similar to an ADSL network,” said Slattery.

“And I don’t think the $8.7bn number stacks up… as Darryl Kerrigan once told, ‘tell him he’s dreaming.’“

Slattery said for the last eight per cent of people, telcos would need to cover 40 per cent of the land mass of Australia – 1,079,000 kilometres, and to deliver a 12Mbit/s symmetrical broadband service using VDSL2+ technology, using conservative estimates, nodes would need to be no more than 2KM apart.

“Let’s assume we have magical thick copper that goes directly from the node to the home and it’s never more than 1KM from the node,” said Slattery. So, nodes are no more than 2KM apart. We’re assuming that there’s conveniently no-one living in blank spots between the nodes (because of the circular coverage patterns of the nodes). And let’s assume backhaul costs to these nodes is $30 per metre. “

“Using that basic assumption, to deliver fibre to the node to 90% of the country, you’ll need at least 49000 nodes and 98000 KM of fibre (though in reality, a lot more of that.) The cost just to roll out the fibre alone is $2.9bn.”

“To reach 98% of the population, you’d need 343,000 nodes (a third of which will be servicing just one home), 680,000 KM of fibre, and it all comes out a cost of $20bn.”

“Obviously there is a problem with that plan,” said Slattery. “$20bn does not go into $8.7bn.”

“So how does the government get out of its pre-election promise? You make it an asymmetrical service. The nodes can now be 4KM apart because you can get 12Mbit/s asymmetrical 2KM from the exchange using VDSL technology. But the fibre cost alone in that scenario would still be over $10billion,” Slattery said.

Is anyone asking the customers?

Slattery said the government had made consultation “merely a checkbox in the process.” For example, the public comment period on the FTTN network tender was only open for eight days, and this was during the Easter public holiday break.

He said there appeared to have been no consultation with the public whatsoever about what they would be prepared to pay for a 12Mbit/s service.

“For people who already have metro competitive prices -- $49.95 for my phone line and 10GB of internet – what happens when the fibre to the node network comes out? Will people be told, “sorry, now that’s $89.95 a month?” Slattery asked.

“The retail price, damn it, is about the most important thing that matters – and the tender doesn’t touch on it. It’s awful – it’s a trainwreck,” agreed Internode CEO Simon Hackett.

“People have no idea that this is about to happen to them. They don’t know that the price of the shiny new network will be the loss of their existing ADSL2+ services, including the good price points.

“They will be very unhappy when I start calling them and say, “you know that good deal you had? I can’t offer it to you any more – the government made me take it away. Consumers are going to be pissed,” said Hackett.

Has a dirty deal been reached?

Anyone who wants to participate in the fibre tender is not allowed do discuss anything about it with the public, because of a “draconian gag clause” that has been built into the tender document.

“It’s difficult to think the government could be so ignorant to the feedback of telcos and consumers unless a dirty backroom deal has already been reached,” Slattery said.

“What will the market look like in 10 years? Picture your eight year old son going to university and using technology that is half the speed of the best broadband available today?”

Simon Hackett agreed: “Picture a world where the dialtone is back to being Telstra only. It’s a government mandated voice and data monopoly. How are we standing for this? It’s madness – just madness. We are literally doing the timewarp to 1989 – when the only network in Australia is owned by the only fully operated incumbent there is. “

Simon Hackett said the biggest myth in the whole process was that building a fibre network required “full cutover” from the existing exchange-based copper network to fibre. “Ask any of the network hardware vendors and they will tell you it is completely unnecessary,” he said, showing a Huawei sales brochure that showed a fibre network design that allowed ADSL2+ and Fibre/VDSL2 to be run through the same set of lines.

He said it was essential that existing ADSL2+ services be allowed to continue operating to preserve competitive tension in the marketplace. Without it, “it means higher retail prices, reduced innovation, no incentive to “make the road better”, reduced international competitiveness and legal action from industry and consumers,” he said.

PIPE’s Bevan Slattery closed his presentation by asserting that Telstra is the only company that has the information necessary to respond. “Any company such as the G9 will only be using the national broadband network to raise their profile.”

He called for the Federal Government to halt the request for tenders process until the information is provided and at least six months allowed for networks to be designed, but conceded that was unlikely to happen.

“I think the reality is: it’s either Telstra, or it’s no-one,” Slattery said.


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Tin (Senior Forumologist):

It was Doc Brown that said the line about the Flux capacitor... I'm pretty sure Marty never had reason to show it to anyone.

Also, why can't we have the OPEL plan again? Conroy needs to give some answers fast...

15 April 2008, 1:47 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Chris (User):

Marty said it when he was trying to convince Doc Brown he was from the future

15 April 2008, 2:43 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Sydney (New user):

Looks like it's panic stations all around. The cosy arrangement that existed with friend Howard with a little help from the ACCC is over and tings are going to be quite different with Rudd and Conroy driving the bulldozer.

Best forget the "whinge ad win" attitude and look for ways to salvage the ship as there is obviously rough times ahead. Still don't complain you have had it better than you deserved for years.

15 April 2008, 2:38 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Conroy's sure driving a bulldozer, and a thundering big one too by the looks. knocking down anything and everything he can see fit to smash. Especially the things he's supposed to be looking after.

As for the comments about competition and competitors building networks... Clearly you're wearing the "Telstra vision enhancing glasses" (supplied to shareholders with last years annual reports, I believe). Of course if you were to take them off and have a look at the reality around you, you'd see that where possible, most of the bigger competitors HAVE been rolling out infrastructure to compete. Where they haven't it's mostly been due to either large costs or Telstra stomping on the plans.

15 April 2008, 3:16 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

r h (New user):

Yes the whole thing is a major farce. Either Conroy doesn't have a clue and/or he has done a backdoor deal with the bully Telstra. God help the price of broadband to the consumer.

15 April 2008, 8:28 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

McBanjo (User):

Why don't they just spend the $20 billion? Internet in the future is going to be like what railroads are to our economy now. It's not a waste of tax dollars if they are doing it properly and cost effectively.

15 April 2008, 8:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Wakie (New user):

I sense an anomaly with this article.

You claim Hackett said this:
“They will be very unhappy when I start calling them and say, “you know that good deal you had? I can’t offer it to you any more – the government made me take it away. Consumers are going to be pissed.”

Yet Hackett also says this:
“Ask any of the network hardware vendors and they will tell you it is completely unnecessary,” he said, showing a Huawei sales brochure that showed a fibre network design that allowed ADSL2+ and Fibre/VDSL2 to be run through the same set of lines."

Does this not make sense to anybody else?

15 April 2008, 9:13 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Not an anomaly... He was saying if Telstra choose to cut off ADSL2 users or bump up prices on wholesale ADSL1, then customers will be pissed.
He then also points out that you *can* get gear that happily works with both setups, but if you don't set it up that way (which Telstra likely wouldn't) it obviously will lease us with his first statement.

15 April 2008, 9:22 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

r h (New user):

What Simon Hackett is concerned about is the distinct possibility that Telstra will demand the cutting over of all copper pairs at the node onto the new FTTN, effectively stranding all competitors exchange DSLAMs. Hackett is arguing against this notion: for a solution that allows the connection to the competitor DSLAM's to remain. Hence providing some cost competition to Telstra's costly FTTN.

15 April 2008, 9:28 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

vlaero (New user):

I think it's a little disingenuous to report one person's experience and then pass judgment on broadband plans for the entire Country. You should realise that when Iinet and Internode made their announcement of ADSL2+ being able to provide adequate service here and now they provided the speeds at which peoples modems connected at and then gave averages. This is a factual approach as opposed to this poor excuse for journalism along the lines of 'I can't get a good connection so everyone elses must be bad too. Let drop several billion and fix this issue'. A skeptic would suggest that with the money you're getting from Telstra to write this story you could surely arrange a better connection. If you did a bit of fact checking beforehand and it reflected in the article then people wouldn't have grounds to take this approach.

15 April 2008, 9:59 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

JC (New user):

Pardon my ignorance but if T cant even deliver enough ports on nodes in new estates now... what will happen if that god forsaken model is rolled out nationwide?
Or are there to be garuantees that each home will have a port on this shiny new (soul of first borne required to afford) network? I waited 9 months checking the TW capacity reports every week for a port, almost 40 applications to various ISP's.
My Neighbours are not so lucky, 21 ports released for close to 40 homes all of which went in the same week, if there are no gauruantees that all homes located next to a node will recieve a port then "RIM estate HELL" will be a displeasure more Australians will experience. Nice, and no competition in the model to offer port relief.

16 April 2008, 8:51 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Davidchr (New user):

Speaking of RIM's, I believe they are all connected to exchanges using Fibre already, so this part of Fibre to the Node is already in place for alot of the country, wouldn't it be nice if the long suffering RIM impeded surfers got first shot at the new high speed system?

16 April 2008, 10:08 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

ikabod (New user):

I dont think its a matter cant deliver enough ports rather not wanting to spend the money to increase the number ports given that the FTTN will more than likly go ahead.

While this is a problem to many, myself included, I believe that the decision is justified from a Telstra cost viewpoint.

16 April 2008, 1:29 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

That port limitation crap has been going on for years, so I doubt it's anything to do with pending FTTN.

16 April 2008, 2:36 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

JC (New user):

Is there a gaurantee that all homes located by an FTTN model will recieve a port? After 9 months of port hunting each week (close to 40 applications) I secured a port in a new estate.
If that model is rolled out nationwide then its a severe displeasure that many homes will encounter.

16 April 2008, 8:51 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

adsl2exchanges (New user):

The answer is simple, if 12mbit broadband is going to be around $80 per month as Telstra would charge, surely things like Vodafone and Optus 5GB for $40 3G plans will become more popular. Sure 3G isn't 12 mbit but at half the cost is viable alternative with the added bonus of being portable.

16 April 2008, 12:56 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Only once they get their coverage levels up. Capital cities aren't the only place the new system is supposed to cover.

16 April 2008, 1:14 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

rob (New user):

The original quote assumes that a broadband network has nodes at pillars. What if the nodes were things like passive fiber-optic "hubs" mounted on power poles and wi-max transmitters as appeared in some submissions?
Also, why is nobody talking about how all existing broadband users will have to change to fiber-optic or VDSL2 modems to get the promised bandwidth? APC could come up with some good points on what a fiber-optic "modem" should provide and its likely cost.

16 April 2008, 5:17 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Reading this very much puts into perspective why K. Rudd is courting 1000 best and brightest, as clearly he is aware, just how inept his "L Plate" ministry really is.

By the time Conroy plays out this fiasco of his making, even Sydney the retired fork lift driver will be baying blue murder at the cost over-runs and failed delivery.

Australia you sanctioned these fools and you will be paying the cost for decades. Costings? They would not have a clue!


16 April 2008, 10:49 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

rtg159 (New user):

the ducks are certainly lining up fro the big T are they not rainpuppy? OPEL boned, the rogue regulator pulled into line and now the FTTN tender lands in Ts lap. About time the tides turned.

18 April 2008, 3:25 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Tides turning? From high to global warming induced coastal flooding you mean?
Nothing's changing yet. Telstra will have to make a submission that meets the requirements, and ACCC will still be able to smack them around if they break the laws.

18 April 2008, 3:55 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Yes despite your poor capitalisation, your typographical errors, your use of school-boy jargon and your less than humorous attempts at mangling my user name, you have still managed to demonstrate your grasp of the situation.
Even a rudimentary knowledge of the game of cricket would remind you of the value of a duck. And ponder for a second what the value is of a whole lot of zeros in the leftmost side of the column.

As has been stated in reply to you little slur, it is still a long way from the signing of contracts, and unlike his predecessors Conroy still has no idea at all of what he intends to deliver. Those fanciful fibre to everywhere election promises are not quite standing once it come time to actually cost them.

And word about the traps, is, that much like predecessor, our wacky Senator Conroy may not have much time to finish reading his "boy's own book of national data infrastructure". Word is our Steven may well be into a position to learn a little more of the workings of our legal system. I haven't heard of there being ducks involved but you can bet it will have him in quite a quack! :)

So why not read the article above another time and try to take a grasp of what's being said before trying you hand at attempts to be amusing.

18 April 2008, 5:06 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

rob (New user):

The article quotes Mr Slattery as saying that to get 98% coverage with VDSL2, one third of nodes would have only one customer.
Surely this shows that a fixed connection (be it fiber or VDSL2) is not suitable for all customers and that the actual tender will have to take this into account.

18 April 2008, 9:29 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Yes. It's quite possible some areas will require a wireless system of some sort to be viable. Otherwise, if they're sticking to their guns on the fibre part, it'll be more economical to run fibre to the premises in those cases.

18 April 2008, 10:25 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

shrike (User):

This is why a country shouldn't privatise it's telecommunications. Telstra are trying to run a business, of course they're not going to want to give up the knowledge they have to other contractors. Telstra's loyalty is to their shareholders, and not where it should be, the people of Australia.

28 April 2008, 7:00 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Jinzo.pk3 (User):

The proposed network is scalable! so even if it sux just after it's been made it will be upgraded later, It is way better than what is in most areas now anyway, if 12Mb/s is only half of 256Kb/s then my name is Micky Mouse (But I can only get 28.8Kb/s dial-up anyways :'( ). The Opel networked sucked worse though, It was going to see significant bottle-necking as even a few connected users would have an impact on the bandwidth with even worse deterioration over short distances.
All in all my finger is squarely pointed at HOWARD <*cough*-capitalist-*cough*> who sold off Telstra and our souls ....

29 April 2008, 10:06 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Bud Jeroff (New user):

As i said before, it will take at least $10 billion and 10 years to do fibre to the node.

01 May 2008, 12:11 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

tashammer (New user):

You know that issue called future-proofing? Now that Climate Change has been accepted as happening, then add in cataclysmic and freak weather conditions, huge water shortages. Oh and mustn't forget Climate Dimming.

Just where will infrastructure actually be located?

Any $ spent now without taking the above events into account will be a $ wasted, will it not? And won't taking the infernal changes into account mean that whoever does so will have the bleeding edge?

Would it not make more sense to look at near future potential events and take those into account rather than doing battles over Telstra's past situation. After all the miles of copper may well turn into weights that drag Telstra under. Newer companies will not have quite the extent of physical history weighing it down.

16 June 2008, 6:54 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Big Baboo (User):

Yep :( Sounds about right to me. Big Brother as usual ripping of Joe Average again by confusing him with stuff he doesn't understand and God help him if he gets any idea of trying to fight against it.

18 December 2008, 9:48 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Big Baboo (User):

Actually :) Now that our beloved new Treasurer whom I am led to believe is a bit of a duck lover himself has told us that the Budget is now officially in deficit :) Could someone maybe explain to me where they are going to find the money to pay for all this stuff?

18 December 2008, 9:56 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Did they already include it in the budget anyway? I thought they did...
And the "future fund" was supposed to be propping up a pile of it too. Though if they'd invested it in anything US based, I'm guessing it's all gone now :P

18 December 2008, 10:32 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Big Baboo (User):

They may well have included it "Tin" but as happens with all this financial stuff,Treasury forgot to tell Parliament how much money they actually had and now we're going to have to tighten our belts or move back to dial-up whichever the case may be :)
And where the hell has my profile picture gone :'(

18 December 2008, 3:09 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Big Baboo (User):

< Aaaaaaaah there tis

18 December 2008, 3:10 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting The Big Baboo:
Treasury forgot to tell Parliament how much money they actually had


Ooops. I guess that's a problem. Kind of important thing to know when doing a budget... But given they are now almost a year behind schedule, I don't think it'll make much difference. Just take it from the next year's budget instead.

18 December 2008, 3:23 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Big Baboo (User):

Actually "Tin" Little Johhny H used to do that all the time and now this mob find there isn't as much left as they thought. But whatever happens we're still going to get a tram running down the middle of Port Road whether we want it or not coz our Premier told us we need it ( shake my head in anguish and desperation )

18 December 2008, 3:48 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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