Pirated Windows more impressive than the real thing

Me In Oz (User):

Please note – APC does not condone the acquisition or use of pirated software.

.... Then why did APC post this ?

The sad thing is that the dimwits who'll download this and use it will complain the loudest when they find out that windows update doesn't work on it .... LOL

RSOblivion (New user):

Errm, Windows Updates do work...

Glad to see you tested it before posting rubbish...

Plus I do believe that if you use a legit CD-Key with it there is no copyright being broken. nLite and vLite could never have been made if MS hadn't leaked the necessary info to make them.

One last thing. I just read your bit about stealing software, what about how much MS has stolen in their pursuit of world computer domination. Why should you pay the thief for the goods that someone else originally designed and made? DOS 6.0 was legally supposed to be recalled via Judge ruling. MS didn't and that is what made the original gaming scene on the PC. MS have a rather chequered history when it comes to stealing software and others ideas. They normally buy out the party suing them though or cough up (500mil to Sun Micro Systems anyone) then there was the whole IE/Mosaic debacle.

So before you jump on the legal bandwagon, why not look into the legalities a bit more. Show me any law that references a man and not a fictitious entity known as a person (in Australia or UK or USA). According to international copyright rules once something has been altered beyond 10% of the original item it can no longer be considered in breach of copyright (as far as I know hence why Strosek and RUF can sell Porsches in their name without legal hassle).

Most back yard undergrounders do not know their rights, they just know that the 'system' takes them away with rubbish laws. So they go to the underground to get what they allegedly legally cannot.

Hell if you want some amusement you can download Server 2008 and run it for 240 days entirely for free. Then re-install it and run it for another 240 days. Hmm thats straight from MS too. Also it runs stable and without the majority of Vista's issues (though most programs made to detect Vista detect Server 2008 as Vista in x64 or x86 flavours). No DRM, no crap, just works. That is how Vista should have been released.

takuhii (New user):

Windows Update DOES work

Raindog (Cornerstone member):

Perhaps while Microsoft are pondering the almost universal marketplace rejection or dissatisfaction with Vista they could take a good look at what has been done done with their own code. I may just give them a clue of where they have got it so very wrong.

TinyXP is proof positive that an OS does not need to bloat and slow with each new iteration.

An OS that does not interupt or second guess it's user, that runs on moderate hardware as well as the latest and greatest, that is scaleable and readilly able to customised, that Microsoft would be a real "genuine advantage".

Me In Oz (User):

Quoting Raindog:
TinyXP is proof positive that an OS does not need to bloat and slow with each new iteration.



Agreed !
MS should get the FBI to track these bastards down ...... and put them on the payroll !

GTR42 (New user):

Obviously Microsoft DO include this level of customisation otherwise the pirates would not have been able to do this?!?! sheezzzz

As a person that has tried this product... excluding the illegality of it, it runs perfectly fine *IF* you're a boring home user. If you are a REAL user of your computer, your XP is in a domain, deal with multiple networking protocols, etc... then you're screwed.

So much of the core OS has been removed that makes it entirely useless in the real world.

If Microsoft did this, they'd have more hassle than they are getting from Vista!

Tin (Cornerstone member):

Note to those who want to do it in a more law abiding fashion:

Driverpacks are available at driverpacks.net

NLite will help with integrating SP3 and disabling excess crap.

GTR42 (New user):

The problem with TinyXP, is that its missing so much of the core OS and Apps, that it prevents the user from using XP other than a simple home user... it fails miserably within a network, in a domain, with GPOs, RIS, etc, etc.

And people consider this an improvement???! "Windows" is NOT bloated. Windows only loads the dll's etc into RAM that your applications needs... disk space is EXTREMELY cheap to the point that its almost impossible to buy anything less than 100 gig's these days. Who truly cares if a single extra gig is taken up by the OS??

Wake up and smell REALITY.

Raindog (Cornerstone member):

Double-post removed: Why does this site freeze every hour on the hour?

Me In Oz (User):

Quoting Raindog:
Why does this site freeze every hour on the hour?

Seems to do it when you reply to a post !

The Penguin (Regular user):

Quoting Raindog:
Why does this site freeze every hour on the hour?


can't say I have seen it do that yet

Raindog (Cornerstone member):

Quoting GTR42:
Who truly cares if a single extra gig is taken up by the OS??

Well no-one really, but it does raise a few eyebrows.

However when you need 3G plus of RAM and a 3G Dual core processor just to reasonably run e-mail and a word processor then you begin to question the benefit of Vista. Multiply the costs by 20 or 100 seats and you start to realise why budget constrained IT managers are not keen to go beat the Vista drum.

I don't for a moment see TinyXP as some form of panacea but it does go a long way to demonstrate what can be achieved. If pirates in dank bedrooms can achieve this level of coding its a disgrace that the best the huge resources of Microsoft can produce is Vista.

So it's not reality you are smelling? When did you last change those socks?

GTR42 (New user):

This article is not about Vista but an illegal XP. Being an ICT Manager myself, I completely understand the finanical costs associated with hardware. I have recently purchased another 50 laptops for our staff and I did NOT need to "upgrade" the drive at all, as the based model was already a 7200rpm 160GB - this is more than enough for business users. Again, nothing extra was needed - this is all current and normal generation hardware.

In regards to Vista, you do *NOT* need that sort of hardware for Vista. I ran the beta Vista builds on a NC8000 laptop (1.3Ghz P3, 1GB RAM, 4200rpm 40GB hard drive and a 64MB ATI) and it ran perfectly fine.

These days I'm running Vista on a 1.8GHz Dual Core, 2GB RAM, 7200rpm 160GB drive and a 128Mb nVidia chip... without any applications running I have over 1.5Gb's free. It runs perfectly fine, is *at least* the same speed as XP plus the laptop runs longer on its battery when using Vista than XP.

You only need correct drivers for Vista to run perfectly fine.

I changed my socks this morning like every other morning... maybe your's are still the same ones from last year when Vista bashing was the rage of kiddies and miss-informed and the supposed "tech journalists" (as employed by APC) that don't have a clue about the real world or what they're talking about?

Raindog (Cornerstone member):

Quoting GTR42:
Being an ICT Manager myself, I completely understand the financial costs associated with hardware.
I have recently purchased another 50 laptops for our staff and I did NOT need to "upgrade" the drive at all

Why this fixation with upgrading drives?

Quoting GTR42:
You only need correct drivers for Vista to run perfectly fine.

You only need the removal of greed to achieve world peace, which has proven to be as elusive as correct Vista Drivers.



Quoting GTR42:
In regards to Vista, you do *NOT* need that sort of hardware for Vista. I ran the beta Vista bulds on a NC8000 laptop (1.3Ghz P3, 1GB RAM, 4200rpm 40GB hard drive and a 64MB ATI) and it ran perfectly fine.


And Holden once stuck a four cylinder engine in a commodore with equally exciting results. I'd never considered perfectly fine as an analytical rating, but you spend your budget your way.


Quoting GTR42:
These days I'm running Vista on a 1.8GHz Dual Core, 2GB RAM, 7200rpm 160GB drive and a 128Mb nVidia chip... without any applications running I have over 1.5Gb's free.

So you see 25% of a substantial amount of RAM consumed just to achieve idle a technological breakthrough?



Quoting GTR42:
that don't have a clue about the real world?

My real world offers better ROI and a more productive work environment for less cash outlay. But if you can con your employer to spend more for the same or a lesser result then all joy to you on your achievements.

Me In Oz (User):

I've used Vista since feb 2007 and have had no problems on a modest gaming rig (much more stable than XP for gaming). The anti-MS posts are just guys playing devil's advocate and shouldn't be taken too seriously. Everyone's comment is valid (we live in free Australia) and the Australian tall poppy syndrome is still alive and well. Every one has to have his little say and thinks they are 'sticking it' to the MAN !
It's Labor vs Liberals, Ford vs Holden, Win vs Mac vs Linux (well maybe not Linux) .... hee hee
You'll never change their minds :)

GTR42 (New user):

I couldn't agree more with you "Me In Oz"...

Obviously Raindog is a troll... and is not worth spending any more time on.

Raindog (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Me In Oz:
Everyone's comment is valid (we live in free Australia) and the Australian tall poppy syndrome is still alive and well. Every one has to have his little say and thinks they are 'sticking it' to the MAN!

Quoting GTR42:
I couldn't agree more with you "Me In Oz"...

Yet you cannot accept an alternative view without insult? Doesn't seem you agree at all. :>

GTR42 (New user):

Quoting Raindog: Yet you cannot accept an alternative view without insult? Doesn't seem you agree at all

I easily accept alternative views as long as they are based on reality and not trolling comments.

Go look up "trolling", it is not a insult to your person but in reference to your consistent "anti-Microsoft and anti-Vista" comments for no other reason that you're happy to regurgitate what you have read in the paid-media. If you are unable to disassociated "trolling" and yourself, then I suggest you go to school and learn something - now that was an insult to your intelligence (thought I should just point that out clearly so you understood that one).

As for your later comment that "10%+ Capacity of vista netwoorking pre-reserved for MS services may have something to do with that."

Please provide EXACT REPEATABLE PROOF of this statement. No blog references, no commentaries and no wikipedia.

You will not be able to do it because there is no proof of this because it does not exist.

Have you used Server 2008? isn't it funny how the media loves this product and yet it has EXACTLY the SAME networking stack as Vista.

You appear to be stuck in the old ways of doing things... WinXP is a VERY OLD OS... with MAJOR security and driver issues. These issues CANNOT be resolved by a service pack at all.

Of course, like everyone else, you're welcome to stay with an old outdated, unsecure OS that does not support the current generation of hardware.

'nuff said.

Raindog (Cornerstone member):

Quoting GTR42:
I easily accept alternative views as long as they are based on reality and not trolling comments.

Which read as "GTR42 will freely accept all ideas and opinions like is own". Thus far you proven totally incapable of accepting any alternate viewpoint and have demonstrated an inability to consider anything outside you own blinkered view.


Quoting GTR42:
it is not a insult to your person but in reference to your consistent "anti-Microsoft and anti-Vista" comments for no other reason that you're happy to regurgitate what you have read in the paid-media.

Again you demonstrate you ignorance. What arrogance to presume how I or anyone else for that matter has formed their opinions. You have no basis for making those statements, no evidence, nothing but a wish to push your own barrow and fight to defend your ideas as the only right.

Quoting GTR42:
now that was an insult to your intelligence

Sorry sport, you have proven your self to be a single minded nutbag and as such are incapable of leveling any form of insult that would matter to me.


Quoting GTR42:
Please provide EXACT REPEATABLE PROOF of this statement. No blog references, no commentaries and no wikipedia.

Google is your friend there, go look for it, it's not my place to spoon feed you. You will find numerous credible references along with workarounds an full descriptions.

Quoting GTR42:
You will not be able to do it because there is no proof of this because it does not exist.

Yeah, yeah and the earth is flat and robots are stealing your luggage.

Quoting GTR42:
Have you used Server 2008?

Yes! A more sensible question would have specified what in what context it was used, but your free to rant at your own pace.


Quoting GTR42:
You appear to be stuck in the old ways of doing things...

You appear to able to make wild assumption of the abilities, situations and experiences of others.


Quoting GTR42:
WinXP is a VERY OLD OS... with MAJOR security and driver issues. These issues CANNOT be resolved by a service pack at all.

Did I ever state it was not? I made the point that Vista was an even more bloated offering that was not adequately addressing community need. I also made the point that it was a poor show that the back room coders of tinyXP were able to achieve many things that Microsoft had failed to deliver. Which after all was the point of this article.

Quoting GTR42:
Of course, like everyone else, you're welcome to stay with an old outdated, unsecure (sic) OS that does not support the current generation of hardware.

No thanks, I have a business to run, and to that end current new hardware loaded with XP along with selected well supported open source offerings proves a better match to customer needs at this time and for the immediate future.

On balance I do not see vista advantages that outweigh the disadvantages, but I am not so arrogant to assume that assessment is universal. Please show the same courtesy to others and try grasp the simplest of concepts.

My preference for XP over vista does not make me an XP fanboi, far from it, XP is a piece of garbage, but a piece of garbage with a high penetration, a defacto standard.

TinyXP demonstrates that many areas of windows can be done much better, and anyone with a modicum of intellect can see this, that does not translate to a freehold approval of TinyXP or any suggestion of its use as a windows replacement for any number of reasons. If you cannot attain a grasp of this then best toddle back to the MS glossies and wait patiently for them to dictate your next raft of purchase decisions.

Tin (Cornerstone member):

Quoting GTR42:
WinXP is a VERY OLD OS... with MAJOR security and driver issues. These issues CANNOT be resolved by a service pack at all.


Uhhh??? So "Service Packs" are not just software updates now? Vista could have been sent out as an automatic update.

CBR1100XX (User):

Quoting Tin:
Vista could have been sent out as an automatic update.

Yeah right ! ............. with dial up ? ;)

Tin (Cornerstone member):

And a business should be rolling out modest gaming rigs to run MS Word? I don't think so!
Try Vista on a low end business box. It's unpleasant at best. 5 times the memory and hard disk requirement for no real reason (other than to make users learn new ways again).

And then there's the retarded networking in Vista. Pretty much saturates the network for ages whenever you try to browse for network files.

Raindog (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Tin:
And then there's the retarded networking in Vista. Pretty much saturates the network for ages whenever you try to browse for network files.

10%+ Capacity of vista networking pre-reserved for MS services may have something to do with that.

Me In Oz (User):

Less than a $1000 will buy you a pretty good gaming rig these days !
If I wanted to run MS Word I'd do it on a 486 running Win 95 !
I use my rig for multi purposes (mainly gaming) and have always found others using anything (Mac or Linux) but Windows having problems with net gaming and gaming in general !

Ciochina Gabriel (New user):

My Goodness! For Christs sake stop complaining about things that you don't have to pay for!

Every time someone releases something for free (whether its a stripped OS, or an open source application, or whatever) he is met with tons of complaints from thousands of idiots that cant even change their damn socks. Jeesus!

If you tried it and you don't like it, then its not for you! If you hadn't tried it yet, first go try it out, then go to step 1! Or go buy the real thing! But don't complain because there's nobody to listen to your whining.

We do these sort of things on our own free time, and we do it because we want to! We make things with normal users in mind, not with freaks who want the application to change & wash their socks automatically.

Its people like you, make me wish there was no open source , no underground, so that you would have to pay for every puny bit that you use.

PS: thanks eXPerience, it worked great for me!

Me In Oz (User):

Quoting Ciochina Gabriel:
If you tried it


Quoting Ciochina Gabriel:
PS: thanks eXPerience, it worked great for me!


And it's people like you who contribute to higher prices .... Arrrgh me harties ! .... And there is no explanation you can use to justify what you do ... so don't even try !

I wonder how philosophical you'd be if someone stole your ideas that you spent all your hard earned resources to develop ?

Ciochina Gabriel (New user):

Quoting Me In Oz:

I wonder how philosophical you'd be if someone stole your ideas that you spent all your hard earned resources to develop ?

Oh i'm so sorry. You say that you have been using Vista without problems. What have you been using it for? Doodling and IM? No problem then! I believe you.

And i don't see how i can contribute to higher prices. And stealing my idea? If you can make it better, go ahead and steal it! Frack it! I'll give it to you for no charge! I'm not going to suit people that actually do something better than me (be it for fee or for no fee)!

And Hard Earned Resource? By this you're referring to all those hard earned resources that MS took from DOD on their last contract? Give me a break! Good software must be free!

Me In Oz (User):

Quoting Ciochina Gabriel:
And stealing my idea? If you can make it better, go ahead and steal it!


So it's OK if I steal your car as long as I repaint it and put alloy wheels on ?

Ciochina Gabriel (New user):

Quoting Me In Oz:

So it's OK if I steal your car as long as I repaint it and put alloy wheels on ?

heh.. car = idea.... nice one... and while you're up there in my "ideas", you might want to check my world domination plans.
seriously, how did you jump from software ideas to car stealing?

Me In Oz (User):

Quoting Ciochina Gabriel:
how did you jump from software ideas to car stealing?

How did you go from software ideas to condoning and advocating software piracy ?
Maybe you should post your details if you are so passionate about stealing others peoples property and I'll direct the details to the relevant authorities so they can clear up some misunderstanding you may have about what's yours and what's not !

Ciochina Gabriel (New user):

Yes, yes, right, sue me for sharing my thoughts!

So much for "free australia" from you, Mr...

Go live in north Koreea you commie :)

Me In Oz (User):

Yeah ! Didn't think you'd have the balls ..... LOL

Your Average Joe (User):

Quoting Ciochina Gabriel:
And stealing my idea? If you can make it better, go ahead and steal it! Frack it! I'll give it to you for no charge!

..... But you'll squeal like a schoolgirl if I make 10 million dollars out of your idea though !




Quoting Ciochina Gabriel:
Good software must be free!


.... And you call 'Me In Oz' a communist ? ...... look in the mirror, comrade !

Your Average Joe (User):

Quoting Ciochina Gabriel:
And stealing my idea? If you can make it better, go ahead and steal it! Frack it! I'll give it to you for no charge!

But you'll squeal like a schoolgirl if I make 10 million dollars out of your 'ideas' though !



Quoting Ciochina Gabriel:
Good software must be free!


...... And you call 'Me In Oz' a communist ?
Have a look in the mirror, comrade !

Niklas Seved (New user):

You cant seriously believe that prices on software will go down if people dont use pirated software ???

I miss the good old days when you could actually choose during install, which programs you would like to install.

Fungyo (New user):

Quoting Me In Oz:
I wonder how philosophical you'd be if someone stole your ideas that you spent all your hard earned resources to develop ?

Downloading pirated software is not stealing, it's called copyright infringement.
Also I don't think MS spent even 20% of resources on developing XP, most would be spent on marketing.

http://tnetech.net (New user):

Why Microsoft don't support this type of development I can't understand. If this was Linux it would be its on distro, instead its an underground movement. Its actually a shame.
Not sure why this article had to throw in a dig at Linux, discribing a Windows installation as 'rather like troubleshooting every Linux distro in existence' That is not my experience, in fact I have found the lastest Ubuntu extremely trouble free.

News & Views, Installation Guides and How To's
http://tnetech.net

thinisin (New user):

As a MS TechNet user, Microsoft has very good support, but have gaps & lack tools for all segments of end users and buisness. Pirated software should be used for educational and programming ideas and never for production or everyday use.

t2 (New user):

the thought of tiny Xp is great and it runs very well tested myself now those that speak of the lack of network functionality would be correct it does lack in that for the most part but there are a few modded XP's that have total windows core and function in all aspects better than that MS's releases but they function much faster and use far less resources. There is a modded Vista SP1 that also run better and faster and less resource hungry than MS releases of vista including SP1.
BTW both the other XP and Vista That I am talking about once you get the first reboot allows you to input your own valid license.

All include several must have apps and tools one the same disk (over 200 to choose from during or after the install)

The point is that Windows can and should be using less resources have better speed and reliability, and include The level of customization and troubleshooting on the regular Windows CD/DVD as these other Modded versions.

Oh yeah and lets not forget Vista will only live as long as windows ME did Windows 7 is already up and testing

So go eXPerience and all the other Modders.

jake (User):

has anyone noticed that if you buy a coppy of windwos xp off the streets of thailand it is always a pirated copy for example 1 i saw windwos xp V8 2007 edition

Me In Oz (User):

Thumbs up for APC for removing Mr. Gabriel's Special Olympics reference !

John777 (New user):

I use TinyVista, TinyXP and MicroXP in Virtual PC 2007. TinyVi't get updates for TinyVista and TinyXP are much better than the offical version. And Windows Update does work! You just don't get all the updates because allot of stuff that gets updated is removed.

takuhii (New user):

@ Me In Oz: Windows Update works fine in TinyXP

Fungyo (New user):

James Bannan "– rather like troubleshooting every Linux distro in existence."
WTF?
Not exactly a professional quote. I'd expect more from someone who works for a respected magazine.
I mostly read your writings for a laugh, apart from that, I don't find them useful. Sometimes I just skip them because I don't trust what you say is truthful.

Fair enough, you don't like Linux, that's obvious with your constant bashing of it and that's ok, but it's time to give it a rest, keep your writings informative and factual.
I get the feeling you boot up Linux only to find it's flaws. As a Linux user at home and work, I can save you some time, Linux has it's flaws, along with every other OS, that's why they all include updating functionality, get over it!

On topic...
This is where I see copyright is all messed up. Everything done to tinyXP can be done by anyone else if they want to, the tools and knowledge are available to all.
If you have a Licence to use XP, what difference does it make if you use your own resources to replicate tinyXP or just save your time and download one made by someone else?
Can anyone explain the harm caused here?

Arachne (New user):

What happens when dealing with XP Pro and Media Edition in one?

pacosan (New user):

I still don't want or use Vista, and I can get it for free.

Microsoft wants us PC geeks to have Vista(stolen or not), because we are the ones who recommend it to the Noobs.

Vista has been a failure because we hate it and we tell everyone who respects our opinion, not to buy it.

GreaseMonkey (New user):

Wow, this thing supports PAE. Now people can use more than 4GB of RAM without having to use the hack-on-a-hack-on-a-hack-on-a-hack known as x86-64, all the while I'm typing this message on a FreeBSD system, which has had enablable support for PAE since... not sure, I've only recently started using FreeBSD. Before that, I was using Linux, which has only had support for it since... not sure, I haven't actually needed to use PAE before.

Why is it that Microsoft have to be the *last* to "come up with" all the cool features?

Tin (Cornerstone member):

Quoting GreaseMonkey:
the hack-on-a-hack-on-a-hack-on-a-hack known as x86-64


Uh... You know PAE is the hack to workaround the limit, right? PAE won't allow a single program to access more than 4GB, just the OS.
X86-64 is real 64 bit addressing allowing any 64 bit program to access up to 16 EXABYTES of memory.

You're last statement is true though... MS are always last to the party... Unless they are the ones running the party, but then they usually forget to invite anyone else.

Sp33d d3mon (Advanced member):

Is this still legal if you use a genuine product key?

takuhii (New user):

AH STOP SPAMMING ME!! I've had 600 emails already!!