Telstra's massive nerve centre exposed

The PikeMaster (New user):

Well this place explains why Telstra's prices are so high. Perhaps Optus needs a monitoring system like this on its 3G network.

Nissy (New user):

I get the feeling Telstra is trying to improve it's public image of being a mighty telco as competing telcos take the limelight away with newer and better technology. The bottom line is tho that this is just a fancy looking (and probably somewhat of an overkill) operation center and at the end of the day, Telstra is still Telstra. Warts, cancer and all.

RichieRich (New user):

Nissy that doesnt make sense. I am currently with optus, i cant get a decent signal at home or at work. They work on a minimum they can get away with model. Telstra costs a bit more because its a better network.

Tin (User):

Quoting RichieRich:
[Optus] work on a minimum they can get away with model. Telstra costs a bit more because its a better network.


Optus work with their own money. Telstra's "empire" was built on taxpayer money. Yes Telstra is now private, but most of the cell locations NextG uses were used for Analog, GSM and/or CDMA. Having the leases, permissions, etc already is a big step in front, and having had the government do it for you is effectively cheating.

Hank (New user):

What a bunch of propoganda!! I don't care how big the office is nor who runs it. I still get have to talk to some guy from India when I call and they don't usually know anything - when running the provided service is good - It all goes to S*** when it hits the fan though

NetR@nger (New user):

Ahhhh,my kind of equipment.

Michael J (User):

I wonder how much a screen like that big one would cost... and how much the graphics cards to play games on it would cost...
probably a bit out of my budget...

Raindog (New user):

"Telstra takes security seriously"

They are kidding right, who wrote this?


and has a full backup GOC "somewhere in the Melbourne CBD"

In that top secret location at 242 that nobody knows about right?


A walk through a few of the exchanges would paint a far more accurate impression of how important your calls actually are to Telstra. Plant once maintained in a laboratory like environment, now languishes is a sea of neglect. Clearly that type image, although much easier to frame has been left off this latest Telstra PR piece.

Did Telstra think all those people denied reasonable broadband would somehow be impressed by these images? Google has some interesting images of a gerry rigged generator.

NA (New user):

what a knob, 242 is where the CEO of the company is positioned but the GOC is located elsewhere for the security of its customers. Telstra may be high priced but at least it does offer great experience for customers using its products, some calls may get sent to india but thats no different with other companies around the world! Quoting Raindog:
In that top secret location at 242 that nobody knows about right?

Raindog (New user):

Quoting NA:
what a knob

You? Or the CEO? And odds on the CEO isn't a top poster. :>


Quoting NA:
but the GOC is located elsewhere

At the top secret Clayton Location no less, but then that quote from the article wasn't referring to GOC was it? The DR facility is where?


Quoting NA:
Telstra may be high priced

High? How about exhorbitant?


Quoting NA:
but

This'll be good


Quoting NA:
it does offer great experience for customers


Too funny, but I guess for the chronically lonely, nealy a full working day of having your call diverted, could possibly be considered
as a great experience. Sadly for normal people the experience sucks.


Quoting NA:
some calls may get sent to india but thats no different with other companies around the world!

No different eh. What about Indian calls where do they get diverted to? India?

There's at least one in every crowd.

markiss303 (New user):

arrr all the bells and whistles yet they still couldnit orginise a root in a brothel
people go broke businesses down and they cant look after thier customers ARE THEY ON THE F,,,N MOON HEY WHERE HERE YA DILL TWITTS

kossy25 (New user):

Thats cool

rustafaria (New user):

Do you guys just sit and wait for a Telstra article so you can have a little cry every time? FFS, man up... whether you like it or not, they have superior technology compared to their rivals... sure, it doesn't always work but neither do you and they can be hard to get through to at times but then so can you... :P If they ran a perfect network then who would you blame for every outage that occurs on your network? Yourself? hardly...

Tin (User):

Quoting rustafaria:
Do you guys just sit and wait for a Telstra article so you can have a little cry every time?

Ummm, no. Most of us have far better things to do. But if you poke at a sore, the owner usually has something to say.


Quoting rustafaria:
whether you like it or not, they have superior technology compared to their rivals

No they don't. They have basically the same, but more of it. And mostly that's only because the government started it all off. Cell sites for NextG are mostly sitting in the same places as the old analogue towers, which were also used for CDMA and/or GSM. That means they already had towers, approval for towers, etc. This saves them immense amounts of time and money, which Vodafone and Optus have to go through on their own.
And lets not forget the way Telstra treat companies wanting to rent spare space in exchanges and rent the lines of Telstra... Money on offer, but Telstra still play hard to get.

Tony23 (New user):

Going to be interesting going forward - digital communication technology means that for many people they are a commodity seller. I know they've got a better network, but to be honest, I'm not prepared to pay for it. It' not of value to me for what I use a phone for. So when they charge for a premium product...I go elsewhere. No one is perfect, but I really struggle to see how they will maintain margin going forward. Actually, that's probably a point for the communications industry generally, not just Telstra.

sum1helptelstra (New user):

I work in the Data & Voice Networking industry and let me tell you from the horses mouth that they are simply `Shocking'.
Shocking in terms of customer service. It simply does not exist.
The GOC is a load of B..lS..t.
After hours everything comes to halt. D not be fooled by this illusion. A/H Every database is down or undergoing maintenance.
ALL Faults / issues are in the hand of testers and nothing will be done till 2-3 days after initial report.
The staff are rude and are very skilled at passing the calls from one area to another, that is once you get through the IVR Maze.
*** You know what I will stop going any further as quite simply I have more constructive things to do. Nothing Has / Is being done to change the culture. I was compelled to comment after this `Rusta' character wrote this crap.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting rustafaria:
Do you guys just sit and wait for a Telstra article

Wouldn't have to wait long with the Telstra PR machine spewing out misinformation quicker than you can say "un-Australian".


Quoting rustafaria:
so you can have a little cry every time?

Or a long laugh at the corporate apologists and the plain bewhildered that lap up such slop without question.


Quoting rustafaria:
FFS, man up...

do you have trouble expressing yourself or is the turettes playing up again?


Quoting rustafaria:
whether you like it or not

I dont like it, even the dimmest of bulbs should have been able to grasp that.


Quoting rustafaria:
they have superior technology compared to their rivals..

Your done it now haven't you? You've gone and said something really foolish. But then it was only a matter of time.

So Telstra's chinese box is technologically superior to the identical chinese box if Optus or others buy it? Hows that work? Magic Stickers?

What about technologies like satellite? Whose satellites do Telstra use?

Telstra or more acurately it's predecessors once had a huge stake in technology leadership, much coming from the same street address as GOC. But that was another time, a time before self interested CEOs and boards decimated their assets in search of short term gain and rich pickings.



Quoting rustafaria:
sure, it doesn't always work

What doesn't always work? what on earth are you muttering about? Better still, dont tell me.


Quoting rustafaria:
but neither do you

And now it's time for your clue free zone is it? You know even less about other posters here than you know about Telcos. Still lack of knowledge or manners hasn't stopped you before, so no reason why it should now.


Quoting rustafaria:
and they can be hard to get through to at times

What can be hard to get through? Skulls in your village?


Quoting rustafaria:
If they ran a perfect network

And everyone knows only too well Telstra network is far from perfect, in fact its far from even adequate despite their massive corporate leg-up.


Quoting rustafaria:
then who would you blame for

There you go again, your rambling! Best you toddle back and mumble to someone, who is actually impressed, that you managed to get a bigpond self install kit connected to the inter-web.

rustafaria (New user):

LOL @ Raindog!!

Second post on this article you felt you needed to pick apart in great detail because it ran contrary to your own superior opinions... you sir, have entirely too much time on your hands... having said that, the time you just wasted on that complete over-reaction of a post has won you a free internet, yay for you! Go again! Go again!

Raindog (New user):

Quoting rustafaria:
you felt you needed to

No need about it. I see an apologist, I call apologist, doesn't raise a sweat.


Quoting rustafaria:
pick apart in great detail

Detail scares you does it? Your sure that's where the devil is, right?


Quoting rustafaria:
because it ran contrary to your own superior opinions...

It's not difficult to offer something superior to apologist bollocks.



Quoting rustafaria:
you sir, have entirely too much time on your hands...

Extra minututes gained by being able to pen a reasoned response in much less time than you'd spend trying and failing to think of a clever insult.


Quoting rustafaria:
having said that,

Oh good your almost done ...


Quoting rustafaria:
the time you just wasted

again your assuming others would spend as long as you do to pen a reply. I dont~!


Quoting rustafaria:
on that complete over-reaction of a post

You may be comfortable to dwell in the pits of incoherant insult, those of us with a clue are capable of some actual detail.


Quoting rustafaria:
has won you a free

There you go again, now your assuming your capable of wit. You failed.
But then failing is obviously something your accustomed to.

Discosis (New user):

It must be the week for showing off your Global Operation Centre. AT&T's was shown in the NYT (and there's a pic of it on Gizmodo)

http://gizmodo.com/5352099/inside-atts-global-network-operations-center-where-calls-go-to-die

GOC Thunderdome, anyone? My money's on AT&T.

The Big Baboo (New user):

I think Telstra have got a "massive nerve" exposing themselves like this but what are they still hiding from us,the poor suffering public which put up with all their preposterous plans,half baked ideas and slow band-with speeds. Bring back Ziggy I say :)At least when he rambled on about something,you always had the pretext of not being able to understand him. What Next O great God Telstra?

The Big Baboo (New user):

PS: Sorry guys I just cant help myself:
"Dedicated team looking after bandwidth and processing" and "Customer-centric monitoring within the GOC which allows the engineers to see exactly what Bigpond customers experience on their mobiles" Sheeeeeeeeesh
Sounds like "Big Brother" to me :( Who let these guys have a licence :(

Tony23 (New user):

I don't mind the monitoring, as long as it is to improve customer experience. You'd think it would just be a bog standard account, not "your account" if you see what I mean. I _hope_ they are monitoring the consumer experience; that's what they should be doing with the "premium network" and "premium priced plans". As a consumer, I don't value their network (as much as they do), so my internet isn't now and never has been with Telstra. Good luck to people who find it good value, but I ain't one of them.

What I do resent very much is the monopoly pricing that we pay for line rental - I have thought for a long time that it is completely unreasonable. I hope that other reasonably priced technologies come along so that I can ditch my land line. My land line's only value is it gives me access to reasonable internet plan; wireless plans are way over priced at present.

I just hope that the questionable cost/benefit of the NBN doesn't mean we end up paying for more lame infrastructure at prices we would rather not pay. I'm currently getting max speed ADSL2 downloads - the NBN is not going to do anything for me, other than potentially increase the direct consumer price of internet access, or, increase my tax bill (to provide a subsidy)....for something I don't want!!!!!!!!!!!

I think a lot of Telstra's high prices comes from serving customers who are uneconomic to do so - i.e. regional and remote. I'm not sure if they are required to do so my legislation, but Telstra should be charging what it costs to provide the service plus a margin. That way, the bulk of Australians will be getting the internet at far cheaper prices, and the real cost of providing the service will drive innovations elsewhere.

Tin (User):

Quoting Tony23:
What I do resent very much is the monopoly pricing that we pay for line rental - I have thought for a long time that it is completely unreasonable


I agree completely... They claim on average that it costs them more than the $20 price they charge for Home Line Budget. I call bullcrap, unless they are wasting money somewhere. That $20/month should easily cover power and equipment costs, and have plenty left over for fault repair and profit.

I'm not against them profiting. I am very against lying about losses to try and maintain a monopoly. A company shouldn't hold everyone back just because they can't figure out how to turn a profit legitimately.

Quoting Tony23:
I think a lot of Telstra's high prices comes from serving customers who are uneconomic to do so - i.e. regional and remote.


I don't think they do. I think it's pure poor management and desire to simply rip off people based on monopoly status rather than trying to serve customers well. Yes, some extremely remote customers would be a loss, but the HUGE volume of lower cost customers should far outweigh it.


Quoting Tony23:
I'm not sure if they are required to do so my legislation, but Telstra should be charging what it costs to provide the service plus a margin.


They are required to by law. They often whinge about it, and how other telcos don't do anything. Yet when Optus stood up and asked Telstra to let them serve some rural areas, Telstrs refused. Doesn't that say something about the profits they make in these supposedly unprofitable areas?


Quoting Tony23:
That way, the bulk of Australians will be getting the internet at far cheaper prices, and the real cost of providing the service will drive innovations elsewhere.


Telstra was slow on ADSL because of ISDN. When they did bring it to Australia, they limited speeds so as not to step on the toes of existing business products that offered similar at far higher prices. ADSL2 made a mockery of some of these services, so they gave in eventually and opened up full speed ADSL1. NextG replacing residential ISDN was another rip off trick. ISDN is still available, but only at business rates. They claim ADSL and NextG remove the need, but NextG is a rip off for the same service, and not wholesaled (where ISDN was).
This is the extent to which Telstra (and any monopoly) wishes to innovate anything. The more they restrict, the better they can suck you dry.

Tony23 (New user):

I'm sorry to dumb this thread down....but I can't help but look at those JPG's and expect:

Joshua: Greetings, Professor Falken.
Stephen Falken: Hello, Joshua.
Joshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

The quote is uncaptioned, because anyone on this website will know where this came from......

Raindog (New user):

Quoting Tony23:
I _hope_ they are monitoring the consumer experience; that's what they should be doing

The GOC monitors systems performance throughout the network, that is a advantagous for the consumers and for the vendor given any outage of service is also an outage of revenue.


Quoting Tony23:
I hope that other reasonably priced technologies come along so that I can ditch my land line.

Dont expect to see the landline dissapear, whether it is in the form of copper, fibre or some radical new tecnology hat can utilise green garden hose as a medium. Sure a household or individual with basic needs can get by on wireles but its far from a complete alternative to connected solutions. NBN is essentially a connected network. (well a concept of a connected network)


Quoting Tony23:
My land line's only value is it gives me access to reasonable internet plan wireless plans are way over priced at present.

Wireless options are far from replacements for ADSL etc in performance terms too. No amount Telstra saturation advertising will change that reality.


Quoting Tony23:
I just hope that the questionable cost/benefit of the NBN doesn't mean we end up paying for more lame infrastructure at prices we would rather not pay.

Lemme see Conroy canned Wimax coverage or most of the continent at a Govt cost of $980 million and now is going to serve some of the back blocks of Adelaide with similar tech for a third of that, to help work around a fibre instal price. Dont hold your breath on cheap NBN prices, unless blue is your colour.


Quoting Tony23:
I'm currently getting max speed ADSL2 downloads

Count yourself lucky a good proportion of regional, Rural and Metro customers are denied such access, even though most exchanges are capable of delivery. (Good one Telstra)


Quoting Tony23:
the NBN is not going to do anything for me

There is no saying what NBN will or wont be, neither is there any answer on how it will affect Telstra's deliberate denial of service to a good many Australians who simply want a reasonable connection.


Quoting Tony23:
I think a lot of Telstra's high prices comes from serving customers who are uneconomic to do so - i.e. regional and remote.

The national phone network which morphed into Telstra was heavily subsidised to ensure equitable delivery to the greates possible percentage of population. A huge amount has been invested to overcome the cost of such delivery. Telstra has used this investment for it's own corporate advantage, don't believe their PR spin.


Quoting Tony23:
That way, the bulk of Australians will be getting the internet at far cheaper prices, and the real cost of providing the service will drive innovations elsewhere.

Your suggestion is very much at odds with what is suggested in an NBN. The simple reality is the NBN is not there and not likely to be available any time soon.
Telstra still is in a position to manipulate access and to any fixed line service.

No amount of carefully framed pictures of the now neglected operation centre will compensate those denied reasonable service. Monitoring your own corporate neglect in real time is certainly a novel approach.

If half the budget Telstra current spends on saturation advertising was directed towards delivery of actual connections, Telstra would attain a much better PR outcome.

Tony23 (New user):

And now it's time for the quote of the week:

The quote of the week is:
Quoting Raindog:
Monitoring your own corporate neglect in real time is certainly a novel approach.


Raindog, shoots. Raindog scores. The crowd goes wild!!!! yaaaayyyy!

My Vista Hosting (New user):

Telstra holds it's Global Operations Centre in Melbourne which control the whoe of Telstra's National and Overseas networks and Customer, a big job and very advanced, the National Broadband Network's Operations Centre is also in Melbourne, as part of the NBN rollout, the National Broadband Network's Operations Centre will be setup at Melbourne Docklands in early 2011,

The NBN setup the Operations Centre in Tasmania till they fully setup a full site in Melbourne, the Operations Centre will be in the same building as Telstra training centre at Docklands, Telstra's Global Operations Centre isn't at docklands however, that's else where.

My Vista Hosting (New user):

Telstra holds it's Global Operations Centre in Melbourne which control the whoe of Telstra's National and Overseas networks and Customer, a big job and very advanced, the National Broadband Network's Operations Centre is also in Melbourne, as part of the NBN rollout, the National Broadband Network's Operations Centre will be setup at Melbourne Docklands in early 2011,

The NBN setup the Operations Centre in Tasmania till they fully setup a full site in Melbourne, the Operations Centre will be in the same building as Telstra training centre at Docklands, Telstra's Global Operations Centre isn't at docklands however, that's else where.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Telstra holds it's Global Operations Centre in Melbourne which control the whoe of Telstra's National and Overseas networks and Customer, a big job and very advanced,

Advanced? Take another look and count all the DOS and Win3.1 systems on those monitors. :)


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
the National Broadband Network's Operations Centre is also in Melbourne, as part of the NBN rollout, the National Broadband Network's Operations Centre will be setup at Melbourne Docklands in early 2011,

NBN should have just taken over GOC , hell 3 years into NBN they'd have monitor for every NBN customer and a few spares.
Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Telstra's Global Operations Centre isn't at docklands however, that's else where.

At the top secret locations at Exhibition St and Clayton. Ssh don't tell anyone. This Is Serious Mom!

My Vista Hosting (New user):

I've been to the Telstra Global Operations Centre, it's rated as one of the most advanced sites in the world.

Raindog (New user):

duplicate. APC web interface still sucks in 2011

My Vista Hosting (New user):

I work for the Federal Government, we work with Telstra in many areas, and yes it's the most advanced site in Australia and one of the most advanced sites in the world, internet speed for the computers are 2gbps and such.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting My Vista Hosting:
I've been to the Telstra Global Operations Centre

Your the one? LOL. Did you get a badge? (Could however be your not the only one!)


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
it's rated as one of the most advanced sites in the world.

By who? A Current Affair? Stephen Conroy? Rupert the Bear?

My Vista Hosting (New user):

Your in NY, Australia has faster internet then the US.

And, Telstra has the world's fastest wireless broadband network.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Your in NY

I am? how did that happen? And there was me thinking you couldn't buy teleporter fuses on a public holiday?


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Australia has faster internet then the US.

And we can jump higher? right?


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
And, Telstra has the world's fastest wireless broadband network.

that's what they told you in the government is it? And you want us, the public, to trust you with $43Bn of public funds?

Did you tell them about the the real world NBN Internet speeds when those schools in Tassie all try to access a US based site concurrently?

Reality is a bitch ain't it?

Raindog (New user):

Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Your in NY

I am? And there was me thinking I had no chances of getting fuses for the teleporter on a public holiday?


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Australia has faster internet then the US.

Another one from the Stephen Conroy book of misunderstood facts?


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
And, Telstra has the world's fastest wireless broadband network.

Hell yeah it probably even has it's own monitor at GOC. You have to wonder why anyone would even bother about fibre right?

My Vista Hosting (New user):

Your not from Australia, your just some loser from the US that's jealous that Australia is reforming it's broadband.

Records show that the cost will be $36.9 billion to build and by 2015 they will make $14 billion, that's mainly due to the high take up of the National Broadband Network.



The United States doesn't even have 80mbps of speed and yet Australia has more than 100mbps.


Telstra's wireless broadband however as i stated before is the fastest wireless internet in the world, at 42mbps, next year it will be upgraded to 84mbps making it much faster then most fixed connections in many countries.

Telstra first built a new next called Next G in 2005 and then upgraded it to 7mbps, then 14mbps, then 21mbps making it the fastest in the world and then last year to 42mbps and 2011 upgrade will be 84mbps.

Optus are also upgrading there network.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Your not from Australia, your just some loser from the US

And that Sparky is just another of you erroneous conclusions. :)


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Records show that the cost will be $36.9 billion to build

The cost to build what? when? Hell kid, if gullibility was an Olympic sport you'd be heading to London for gold.



Quoting My Vista Hosting:
and by 2015 they will make $14 billion

In 4 years? Wanna put a $1000 on it? I'm always up for a sure bet.

that's mainly due to the high take up of the National Broadband Network.

Is that like the (ahem) high takeup currently being experienced in Tasmania for a highly subsidised network? Yeah that'll work across the nation. LOL.


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
The United States doesn't even have 80mbps of speed and yet Australia has more than 100mbps.

Oh? you'd have to wonder then how most of the mindless video content Australia downloads from the US even happens wouldn't you? Have you worked out how much faster all that NBN delivered youtube is going to be yet?


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Telstra's wireless broadband however as i stated before is the fastest wireless internet in the world, at 42mbps

You must have one of them theoretical handsets, eh? Theoretical Inc sure make top shelf kit.


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
making it much faster then most fixed connections in many countries.

Many countries yes, though what the brochure does note tell you is that many of those many countries have names ending in stan. :)


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Telstra first built a new next called Next G

mostly upon infrastructure subsidised by govenment, now Senator (blunders) Conroy is giving them a new free ride in the form of a LEASE of their infrastructure. But hey Sparky don't let me stop you believing the stuff you've read on glossy brochures.



Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Optus are also upgrading there network.

One would hope so!

My Vista Hosting (New user):

Telstra's Next G network wasn't funded by the Government in anyway, it only cost Telstra around $2 billion.

You are really a tard, because the National Broadband Network is designed to provide it's services to retail service providers and not directly to people.

iPrimus and two other companies are already using the NBN, Telstra will be this year in 2011.

Cost have been undertaken to pay back $14 billion by 2015, that includes all Telstra, iPrimus and other two companies connections to the NBN.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Telstra's Next G network wasn't funded by the Government in anyway

Not if you ignore that it seconded all of the support infrastructure from the CDMA network. More than a few bucks of federal monies there eh Sparky?



Quoting My Vista Hosting:
You are really a tard

What's that Sparky? Your argument is crumbling and your having to resort to schoolyard insult? hmm?


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
because the National Broadband Network is designed to provide it's services to retail service providers

and the point is? and of course those retail providers will all receive the same support pricing and access regardless of size or influence? Did they tell you you've been had yet?


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
iPrimus and two other companies are already using the NBN

Indeed and at no cost at this time, such is the financial viability of the NBN.


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
Cost have been undertaken to pay back $14 billion by 2015

Kevin Rudd and the ALP undertook to deliver good and stable government on 2007, promises are easy it's making a reality of such promises that usually proves to be the greatest challenge.


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
that includes all Telstra, iPrimus and other two companies connections to the NBN.

How? are iPrumus and Co going to dip into their coffers to guarantee any shortfall? Get a grip.

My Vista Hosting (New user):

By 2013, just over $4 million will be connected, it's not up to the Government to do it, it's up to the NBN company setup by the Government.

so far more than 400.000 people can receive the NBN.

Raindog (New user):

Quoting My Vista Hosting:
By 2013, just over $4 million will be connected

I think you'll find they have already connected many millions of public funds to Conroy's Folly? That's how much per connection thus far?


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
it's not up to the Government to do it, it's up to the NBN company setup by the Government.

Sure it is. What do you think NBN Co's chances of completion would be without a huge continued inflow of public monies? What do you think their chances of securing similar levels of finance from the open market would be, given their prospective short medium and long term projections?


Quoting My Vista Hosting:
so far more than 400.000 people can receive the NBN.

Ok now divide that by around 4 to 5 for a more realistic estimate of connection to date. Then if you would could you quote us the uptake figure of those 10,000 possible connections. That many huh.

And those few connections are going to return millions in revenue after overheads, plump salaries, and infrastructure costs are taken out. It's going to have to be in the order of tens of thousands per subscriber.

Do the math Sparky!.

My Vista Hosting (New user):

N/A