Top 5 reasons to fight government ISP filtering

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Angus Kidman04 November 2008, 12:11 PM

Hey, Senator "cleanfeed" Conroy, listen up!


As trials continue ahead of the introduction of mandatory ISP filtering sometime early in 2009, it's becoming clearer that the entire scheme is an ill-thought-out attempt for left-wing Labor to suck up to right-wing politicians. Here's six reasons why the concept is stupid and hopefully doomed to failure.

We can't say we didn't know it was coming. Prior to last year's Federal election, Labor had made it clear that it would introduce some form of ISP-level content filtering, but in the excitement over the National Broadband Network, no-one paid much attention to this detail. And given that its Federal Liberal predecessors had come up with the equally stupid and rarely used mid-1990s Internet censorship laws and the monumentally unpopular and now discontinued free filters for families scheme, it seems unlikely we could ever have escaped some attempt to crack down on Net nasties. But that doesn't mean the "clean feed" campaign — which will require ISPs to provide a Net connection with an list of material deemed undesirable for children blocked, and will require adults to opt-in if they want largely unfettered access — is anything but stupid. Here's five reasons why.

1. It will slow everything down. As Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA) pointed out recently in launching its No Clean Feed campaign, filtering slows down connections by at least 30% based on the government's own evidence in the form of ACMA's report into the effectiveness of filtering. Given the billions that are supposed to be invested in our new national high-speed broadband network real soon now, this seems like a contradictory stance to say the least (though we're sure whoever builds it will welcome any excuse for less than banner performance).

2. Offensive is in the eye of the beholder. Leaving aside already illegal material such as child pornography and snuff films, it's quite difficult to define what should be banned, even in a family context. Family First types would presumably like to see any adult material banned (even the R-rated stuff); religious devotees might object to Life Of Brian fan sites; South Australia's Attorney General apparently believes that gaming is the root of all evil; and people with brains might wonder why anyone needs access to information about Paris Hilton. Trying to maintain a workable list will be an expensive and ultimately futile exercise.

3. It presumes families care about this stuff. "The Australian Government is committed to ensuring all Australian families can utilise ISP filters that block prohibited content as identified by the Australian Communications and Media Authority," communications minister Senator Stephen Conroy said in June this year. "Families should also be able to access filters that can be customised to block more material if they choose."

The available evidence suggests that most families don't give a flying proverbial. Conroy himself shut down the previous government's National Filter Scheme after it emerged that even amongst households who bothered to acquire the free software, just 20% bothered to update it regularly. Clearly, parents have better things to do with their time than fuss around with filters.

4. It makes Australia look stupid on a global scale. It's easy to read news reports about Indonesia's plans to attempt a comprehensive pornography ban and laugh, but the Australian proposal isn't so different in scope. As EFA chair Colin Jacobs recently told the Sydney Morning Herald: "I'm not exaggerating when I say that this model involves more technical interference in the internet infrastructure than what is attempted in Iran, one of the most repressive and regressive censorship regimes in the world."

5. The people supporting it don't like mounting rational arguments. Communications Day recently quoted Jim Wallace, managing director of the Australian Christian Lobby, on why mandatory filtering was desirable. "The need to prevent access to illegal hard-core material and child pornography must be placed above the industry's desire for unfettered access," Wallace said. This kind of lazy rhetoric, implying that anyone who opposes wide-scale censorship is automatically in favour of child pornography, is intellectually vapid and entirely unhelpful.

Bonus point 6. It's the thin end of the wedge. As law lecturer Kimberlee Weatherall pointed out earlier this year, fully blocking access to pornographic content would mean filtering P2P streams as well — and if that could be done (a big if, admittedly), there's likely to be pressure from content creators to have P2P more fully regulated. That's a helpful way to spend everyone's tax dollars, isn't it? As EFA's Colin Jacobs commented recently: "It's starting to look like nothing less than a comprehensive program of real-time Internet censorship." But perhaps we shouldn't expect anything more from a PM who banned his own staff from using Facebook lest it ruin his public image.


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Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Conroy, Australia's moral conscience .......... A big fat raspberry to you !

04 November 2008, 12:16 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

AtticusFinch (User):

You have ignored the crucial 7th point Angus !

7. It WILL cost the consumer more for a slower service !

04 November 2008, 12:26 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

People vote stupid and stupid is what gets elected. And Conroy is dishing out stupid in spades.

If I want someone to do my thinking for me, and decide what should and shouldn't be seen it wont be a snout in the trough trade union hack like Conroy.

Coming up for 12 month in the job now and thus far he's broken lots and fixed nothing.

"Say No to Conroy - And say No to Spencership"

04 November 2008, 12:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

4. It makes Australia look stupid on a global scale. - APC

We're already there when it comes to data allocation and pricing !
Now we'll be the South Pacific version of China when it comes to 'freedom of speech and thought'.

Kev07 and his whipping boy Conroy is gonna pay for this in 2011 !

04 November 2008, 12:34 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me In Oz (Advanced Forumologist):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
is gonna pay for this in 2011 !

Kevin O Seven and ........ Kevin Eleven ?
Surely this can't be a coincidence !




04 November 2008, 12:38 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

ChinaSyndrome (New user):

Leave China out of it, We get unlimited 100Mbps Internet for $20pm, A mobile phone network that covers nearly every rice paddy from Russia to Vietnam ($10 pm), more freedom of speach than there ever was in Australia, smoking in pubs, bars and resteraunts, and a Police force that ONLY prosecutes crime, ie not thought police like in Oz.

04 November 2008, 4:49 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

You can keep the smoking in the pubs, etc. I'm glad someone had the guts to ban that here. Next stop, banning public smoking. I don't only find it terribly disgusting, but it also gives me headaches and nausea. Not a pleasant thing to have happen when driving or walking down the street...

04 November 2008, 5:08 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

Quoting ChinaSyndrome:
more freedom of speach than there ever was in Australia

We are allowed to criticize Uncle Mao here in Oz !
Not too sure if the authorities in China would have the same sense of humour :)




04 November 2008, 5:29 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

itd (User):

Quoting ChinaSyndrome:
Leave China out of it, We get unlimited 100Mbps Internet for $20pm, A mobile phone network that covers nearly every rice paddy from Russia to Vietnam ($10 pm), more freedom of speach than there ever was in Australia, smoking in pubs, bars and resteraunts, and a Police force that ONLY prosecutes crime, ie not thought police like in Oz.


LOL yeah except for those pesky falun gong free thinkers

05 November 2008, 12:12 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

agami (User):

Quoting ChinaSyndrome:
100Mbps Internet for $20pm, mobile phone network for $10 pm

I don't doubt that China feels more free in some ways as it feels less legislative, fewer lawyers and insurance companies, and no self-righteous self-serving political agenda masked in religious standards of morality. But please don't go into economics. $30 is a monthly salary for most.




05 November 2008, 12:12 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

DFTBA (User):

Please tell me your joking. The situation with the Chinese Government reminds of one of the Rolling Stones song Short and Curlies. Replace she with Chinese government.

It’s too bad, she’s got you by the balls
She’s nailed you to the wall
Oh, it’s a shame
Ah but it’s funny
She crashed your car
She spend your money
And you can’t get away from it all (The Chinese government chased Falun Gong practitioners all the way to the USA, and still hassled them until the US government passed a resolution to prevent the Chinese government from hassling US citizens who were practiser's)


06 November 2008, 11:20 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

US citizen (New user):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
4. It makes Australia look stupid on a global scale. - APC

We're already there when it comes to data allocation and pricing !
Now we'll be the South Pacific version of China when it comes to 'freedom of speech and thought'.

I'm in the USA and I don't see Australia as "stupid". I am in telligent enough to realize that it's not the citizens who make these decisions (despite their voting for certain people). Just like a lot of people in other countries think we're all (insert rude comment here). It's not the people, it's the few in government who run amoke that make the whole country look bad to the unintelligent.

No worries here about how you look. Best of luck to you all in ridding yourselves of this bad idea and those who are trying to get it established.



05 November 2008, 1:25 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

TV Bis (User):

Well something needs to be done about the material presented on the web! Parent control is not working and what person gives a rats about classification these days. Who cares if the speed is reduced slightly! For peace of mind and knowing that my children can use the web without something popping up which is offensive is good by me. Raindog will probably say that I am just one person with thoughts that don't account for the masses who disagree. All I would say to that is "Let's all do something before the web gets completely out of control, that's if it's not too late already".

04 November 2008, 12:39 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

gankul (Cornerstone member):

I care about speeds being reduced consiering our speeds are already behind other countries and cost more, why have tax money put into a system where any parent actually worried about it can impliment there own filtering on the family computer.



04 November 2008, 12:47 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

CBR1100XX (Advanced member):

Quoting TV Bis:
Raindog will probably say that I am just one person with thoughts that don't account for the masses who disagree.

Has quite a reputation, this Raindog ;)

You are quite entitled to your opinion but I can't help but sense this may a first step to something more sinister. Censorship in a free society of any form is detrimental in the long run.

You're quite correct to suggest the web is out of control with 'immorality', I agree !

But I also don't think it's up to governments to dictate and censor what is moral and what is not ! If something is against the law, well, that's a different kettle of fish and it's up to the proper authorities to deal with (eg paedophilia).

"Parental Control"
This should not just be a piece of software !
My children have grown up surfing the web without any sort of government censorship and have grown to be upstanding citizens. The thing is that while they were young and impressionable, they had responsible parents which pointed out things that were 'bad' and things that were 'good'.

Responsible and loving parents will always instill morality into their children and censorship will then be a moot point !

Cheers :)




04 November 2008, 1:10 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting TV Bis:
Parent control is not working

Perhaps because parents these days, in general, just aren't parenting. Look how many pop out kids then expect someone else to look after them...

Quoting TV Bis:
Who cares if the speed is reduced slightly

Either you can't read, or you choose to remain ill-informed. 20-30% depending on the setup is hardly "slight". Do you mind if interest rates take that "slight" increase?

Quoting TV Bis:
For peace of mind and knowing that my children can use the web without something popping up which is offensive is good by me.

Ah... I see. You are ill-informed (or stupid).
While you are feeling all warm and fuzzy about the filter, you'll probably notice your wallet is getting slimmer. Then one day, your kids WILL go looking for naughty pages. It's the modern equivalent of asking difficult questions about reproduction...

Quoting TV Bis:
All I would say to that is "Let's all do something before the web gets completely out of control, that's if it's not too late already".

Yes... Why don't you do something? Like supervise your kids since that seems to be the bleeding issue here!

04 November 2008, 1:11 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting TV Bis:
Well something needs to be done about the material presented on the web!

Censorship isn't that something!!!


Quoting TV Bis:
Parent control is not working

Yours may not be, why is your non supply of supervision and education my problem?



Quoting TV Bis:
and what person gives a rats about classification these days.

The adults that care and don't expect their parenting to be done for them that's who.


Quoting TV Bis:
Who cares if the speed is reduced slightly!

WE DO !!!!! to reduce the speed of much of Australia's Internet would be to stop it completely. You only need to look at the cost, complexity and resources used by the NSW education filter to see why. And for all the efforts the end result is an over zealous and sometimes ineffective road-block.



Quoting TV Bis:
For peace of mind and knowing that my children can use the web without

why has your absence of parental supervision and education got to become a problem for others?


Quoting TV Bis:
which is offensive

to who? by whose personal standards? Yours? Conroy's? Rudd's? Red China's?


Quoting TV Bis:
Raindog will probably say

Oh goodie another psychic. Don't presume to know my thoughts thank-you very much.


Quoting TV Bis:
will probably say that I am just one person with thoughts that don't account for the masses who disagree.

Well what I was thinking was more along the lines of "vocal and noisy minority", but hey don't let me spoil your premonition.

Quoting TV Bis:
All I would say to that is "Let's all do something before the web gets completely out of control

Doing something stupid or something stupid and ineffectual or something stupid, incompetent and ineffectual, is not doing something, it's doing SOMETHING STUPID.




04 November 2008, 1:23 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

nomorecensorship (New user):

You are quite easily the dumbest person in this country. Its YOUR responsibility to ensure your kids dont encounter crap like that.

04 November 2008, 1:26 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

briggsy (New user):

I use the web and have never had something just 'pop up' that I find offensive, unless you are referring to a car ad or something ... they're pretty insulting to one's intelligence. This is just another way for the government to control us, filter what we see and think so we can knuckle on down and consume more. Don't be so ignorant, you really think the government has your interests at heart? JJ

04 November 2008, 2:24 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Ash (User):

Quoting TV Bis:
"Let's all do something before the web gets completely out of control, that's if it's not too late already".

It's not too late already. You still have a chance to set up your own filters, to educate your children. Do it. Don't take it out on the rest of us.




04 November 2008, 5:45 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

AnthonyBrisbane (Regular user):

Quoting TV Bis:
Well something needs to be done about the material presented on the web! Parent control is not working and what person gives a rats about classification these days. Who cares if the speed is reduced slightly! For peace of mind and knowing that my children can use the web without something popping up which is offensive is good by me.


If parents want to filter their childrens Internet, let them do it. Don't force it onto everyone at their cost whether they use it or not. And secondly filtering will not work. Anyone with even the slightest knowledge of computers knows how to use a proxy server, and there's no way they can block proxy servers like schools do. Also even if they don't know how to use a proxy server it will drive them to P2P and newsgroups which can't be filtered, and contains significantly more extremely illegal content than what is on the web.

04 November 2008, 7:41 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

FostWare (User):

The issue is not what type of filtering should be used.

The issue is why aren't parent's supervising internet access? Maybe those lazy parents should decide what their children can and cant see.

You never know, I might want different things blocked to you...

05 November 2008, 12:40 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Xanni (New user):

It's too late already. It's been too late since 1994. The web has always been completely out of control. It's entirely reasonable for you to want your children to be able to use the web without seeing things that you consider offensive, but a mandatory ISP filtering scheme will cost you money and still won't achieve that for you. There are already things you can do to protect your children, and the government and ISPs already provide assistance with this.

05 November 2008, 11:53 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

miko (New user):

what will the cost to business and commercial in confidence? No more VPNs?

04 November 2008, 12:57 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

djackmanson (New user):

People who oppose filtering should start thinking about how to make sure that pro-censorship ideas don't get stronger in the Liberal Party. That means actually engaging with the fears of people who are worried about porn, instead of people like us just smugly telling each other how we are smarter than them.

http://strangetimes.lastsuperpower.net/?p=144

04 November 2008, 1:04 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Douglas (Regular user):

You APC people need to learn to count. In the title, you say 5 points. Then you say six in the first paragraph. Then ten in the second paragraph. And then there's six.

And, seriously, I don't see why the government thinks this is going to work. You can't block every nasty site on the internet, there's too nmany websites out there - millions? Billion? Who knows?

04 November 2008, 1:19 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

To all those FOR this idea:
Please arrange to spend some time using the internet in a DET NSW school.

DET NSW have a similar level of filtering to the proposed federal idea. This system is now over 2 years old, so the issues are not "teething problems". We regularly get:
* Incorrectly filtered sites.
* Incorrectly unfiltered sites.
* Sites that flip-flop between filtered and unfiltered because they get reported repeatedly both ways.
* Completely pathetic speed. Sometimes slower than dialup. Bypassing the filter in some way gives full speed during these times.
* Total loss of internet access.

04 November 2008, 1:23 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

red_rogue (New user):

To give people a quick Idea of how this works. The Blacklist thats in use blocks access to SPECIFIC web sites as determined by the Australian Government (but because they have to pick each site, its can only address so much). A Filter means the computer automatically blocks websites based on a set of rules. If the computer rules get it wrong, they will block the wrong sites or continue to allow access to the wrong sites.

When technical people talk about how the people can still get around the filtering, they're not just talking about users and children, they are talking about WEBSITES. These illegal sites will simply adjust themselves so they have a greater chance of not falling into the 94% of filtered sites while still delivering their illegal content.

This is much like someone writing the word V!@gR@ to avoid e-mail filters. It won't matter if your a grown up computer technician or a young child. The web sites themselves will find the holes as fast as the government fills them.

I encourage all families to either move their computer into the living room or sit and read a book in the computer room as their child surfs the internet. Anything less and you may as well hand them a phone book and tell them to start calling the random numbers of strangers or phonesex lines.

04 November 2008, 1:32 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Climba77 (New user):

Unfortunately, no one seems to be considering the VPN option. If I connect an IPSEC VPN to a server in the Netherlands, I can, for all intensive purposes, be surfing the web from the Netherlands.

This is not difficult, is used by businesses all over the world righ tnow, uses free and open software and protocols and can't be cracked without serious supercomputer time.

Why would anyone waste time filtering one country when the internet is inherently global?

04 November 2008, 1:37 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Climba77:
Unfortunately, no one seems to be considering the VPN option.

OK I'm game for a giggle. How do you propose VPN as the universal panacea to Internet porn?


04 November 2008, 2:05 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Climba77 (New user):

Why do you want a panacea for internet porn? I didn't mention porn, I just said that a VPN can completely sidestep any restrictions (apart from bandwidth) that the australian government can apply. The government CANNOT stop VPN traffic without stepping on the intellectual property rights of the big boys. They won't do it.

04 November 2008, 2:11 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Climba77:
Why do you want a panacea for internet porn?

When did I suggest I did?


Quoting Climba77:
I didn't mention porn,

The thread does relate to censorship, porn would by association be a fair component of that.


Quoting Climba77:
I just said that a VPN can completely sidestep any restrictions

It cant! Nor can any VPN compensate for the loss of Internet speed mandatory filtering would impose. In fact if everyone currently looking at porn in AU chose to do it via VPN the extra overhead would massively overload our existing network infrastructure.

I don't need a solution for accessing porn through an Internet filter,frankly I have better things to do. And I don't need my limited AU broadband hampered by some Conroy Conjob filter.





04 November 2008, 2:22 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Carmar (User):

Raindog, you are right on all counts! Once politicians start censoring anything you can bet it won't stop at pornography. I've studied Classics, and some of the material from ancient Greek playrights seems a little risque by TV standards - does that mean we should ban it? Or is that "OK" and anything similar but modern "not OK"? It is a very grey area at the best of times, and better left to our own personal judgement. Or better yet, publicise ISP's who host a dubious sites - often hiding behind large corporate names. Don't punish the Australian ISPs for material coming in from the USA, Europe & Asia.

04 November 2008, 2:01 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

CBR1100XX (Advanced member):

Quoting Carmar:
Don't punish the Australian ISPs

The ISP's couldn't care less. They don't care what you use your download quota for (porn, movies or music) ! They'll pass on the additional costs infrastructure and monitoring of this insidious decision to the consumer !




04 November 2008, 2:22 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Bloody view all feature! Double post due to the other being hidden

04 November 2008, 2:29 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

mickeyjuice (New user):

Can someone tell me how this can see inside .rar or .tc files? If not, what's the point anyway? (Even ignoring all the other valid points.)

04 November 2008, 2:30 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Easy. The same way your antivirus does... Unrar them.
Methods already exist for Squid and various other proxies to check contents of Zip, RAR and similar files for viruses, etc. It's a simple step to check them for file types and stuff.

04 November 2008, 2:43 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

CBR1100XX (Advanced member):

Quoting Tin:
Easy.

Ditto !
There is technology here at work that can view an image either in raw format or as a zip/rar file and filter out pix with more than 80% of the area being within a range of skin tones.
And apparently pictures of lions do not pass this filter !




04 November 2008, 2:57 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Look forward to many more incidents of innocent things being deemed inappropriate. "Clbuttic" problems will arise many times a day for some people... Especially those with relatives in S****horpe.

04 November 2008, 3:42 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

DuckMan (New user):

Flouride is good for you so is cencorship and conscription and incaseration without trial and double taxation (or triple depending on if you apply GST to a stamp duty on a second hand item) come on Banana republicains things could be worse you could be living in Australia instead of this wonderfull forward thinking peoples republic

04 November 2008, 2:58 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

todd_h86 (Cornerstone member):

Come on, how can any be in favour of this?

TV Bis, a "slight" decrease in speed is not very slight when it takes as the article says about 30% longer because of the filtering, why am I paying $100 + a month to have a connection that takes 30% longer to load? Also, I'm assuming you live in Australia and are probably in someway religious, or biased on things, so what will you do if some site you like is filtered out because another group of people deem it 'bad', I'd imagine you would be upset! If your kids are looking up porn then maybe, just maybe watch them while they are on the internet! TEACH YOUR CHILDREN HOW TO SAFELY USE THE INTERNET it’s not a 'play thing' it was created to transfer data between scientific locations (HTTP not internet...) not to act as a substitute TV for bad parents who should have to pass a license test to actually procreate. Also, will this filter block out any history that the government doesn’t want people to see alla China? Or maybe block out sites that don’t fit in with the whole god and jesus conundrum?

But I'm all for somehow stopping child porn sites and scam sites, but putting a big fat filter on it is not the way to go, and even if they do it wont take long for someone to have a way of by-passing it.

Why was conroy actually appointed? Does he own a computer let alone know what the internet is? Or did he just read about it in his good christian monthly along with the dangers of eating meat on a friday?

04 November 2008, 3:16 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

todd_h86 (Cornerstone member):

Maybe instead of spending tax payer dollars on a filter the government should spend it parenting classes so people like TV Bis might know that being a parent isnt just having sex and pushing out a kid and sitting them infront of a tv or pc and getting $$ from centrelink for it. I would be in favour of that, or even a filter to prevent such humans with an obvious low level of brain cells, (so low they dont take care of their own young) from copulating.... o wait its called a condom... damn was onto something good then too!

Why do bad parents and bad government always blame the tools and not themselves? My child is fat, I'm suing maccas, my child sees porn on the internet im suing the internet... maybe we should start a class action and sue all bad parents? (Guidelines of course)

04 November 2008, 3:24 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Climba77 (New user):

To anyone who supports this censorship plan should have a look at the open letter Mark Newton (Engineer, Internode) wrote.

You may not agree with the content but it is hard to argue with the research and data.

Link is: http://users.on.net/~newton/ellis-2008-10-20.pdf

04 November 2008, 3:47 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Franki (New user):

If the government turns my high speed connection into a low speed connection by forcing filtering on me, I'll be sending them the bill for the difference in download speed.

04 November 2008, 3:59 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

CBR1100XX (Advanced member):

Quoting Franki:
I'll be sending them the bill for the difference in download speed.

I wonder if that will appear in the new Tax Return Form ;)




04 November 2008, 4:38 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

techdribble (User):

parenting should be done by parents not legislation.

04 November 2008, 4:25 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Unicorn (New user):

Once the government get this filtering system in place, it will only be the thin end of the wedge. What will then be stopping then from adding more filters for things they think may be detrimental to them. I have voted Labor ever since I came to Australia in 1986, but if this goes through, I will never vote Labor again, and I am only one of many. We have already voted a very arrogant W.A. parliament out of office this year, and we can do the same with a federal pariament.

04 November 2008, 4:27 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Unicorn (New user):

Australians do not take kindly to their freedom and rights being interfered with. Take heed Mr. Rudd. The Labor government can be voted out again just as easily as we voted the Labor government out in Western Australia

04 November 2008, 5:09 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

bolts_cj77 (New user):

I have a question, forgive my ignorance. How is the best way to fight this legislation? Are there petitions? Write to local MP? Suggestions?

04 November 2008, 5:10 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

bolts_cj77 (New user):

This may be a silly question, please pardon my ignorance. What's the best way to try to fight this legislation?

04 November 2008, 5:17 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Senior Forumologist):

Start writing letters to your local federal member, to Conroy himself, to you local newspaper... And then ask your friends to do the same if they are concerned also.

04 November 2008, 7:51 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Philip (New user):

While watching porn can clearly create problems, why not let people watch anything they want but make it clear that anyone who actually has sex with children or commits acts of sodomy, adultery and fellatio will be gaoled, or at least fined so heavily that they cannot afford an internet connection?

I'll tell you why not - it's because the Labor party is all for these acts as long as no one is looking.


04 November 2008, 7:03 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Philip (New user):

While watching porn can clearly create problems, why not let people watch anything they want but make it clear that anyone who actually has sex with children or commits acts of sodomy, adultery and fellatio will be gaoled, or at least fined so heavily that they cannot afford an internet connection? I'll tell you why not - it's because the Labor party is all for these acts as long as no one is looking.

04 November 2008, 7:07 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

AndyCee (Advanced member):

Seriously.

If parents care about their children getting access to undesirable content, perhaps they can put an hour into solving the problem themselves.

Playing devil's advocate, I could see the benefit in reducing child porn online. It just isn't a practical solution to filter all internet traffic, in the same way that it isn't practical to filter all phone conversations. Though the "paris-filter" is fine with me.

04 November 2008, 8:49 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Hellfish (New user):

Quoting TV Bis: "Who cares if the speed is reduced slightly!"

I'm afraid I, like many other Australian's, DO!!! Yes, I agree, something needs to be done. But why slow everyone's already slow surfing experience even more (as 30% reduction in speed could easily become 75% if the fed govt has their way) for the fact that parents cannot and/or do not use a common skill - supervision. If you are that worried about monitoring the content that is available to your computer, why not set up your own filters or pay someone to set a filter up for you! This will not only keep you happy, it will keep the rest of our nation happy!

04 November 2008, 9:18 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

billionareHuman (New user):

offer a service that helps people filter their own home networks if they wish, don't force it on everyone and slow down a sometimes already slow network http://www.highspeedinternetproviders.com.au/

04 November 2008, 9:50 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Ladadadada (New user):

Four more points: (And better ones at that)

1. A filter gives parents a false sense of security that the Internet is safe. Even if the filter were effective it still wouldn't make the Internet safe. Only the web will be filtered, not email or ftp or bittorrent or Limewire or Messenger or any other protocol. The filter doesn't attempt to stop predatory behaviour.

2. The filter is trivial to bypass. A simple proxy server is all that is required. It doesn't even have to be in another country because the proxy server is not run by an ISP and therefore doesn't have to filter anything. Tor will also work to bypass the filter. It won't be possible to filter or even read SSL traffic without executing a man-in-the-middle attack on every secure connection. The filter will have to either allow or deny all SSL traffic or fall back to IP based filtering. If the filter blocks URLs rather than whole domains or IP addresses it is also trivial to make a new URL that shows the same content by adding ?foo=1 to the end of the URL. Try it now... I bet it works.

3. The filter is ineffective. Even when no steps are taken to bypass the filter it still allows "bad" sites through and blocks "good" sites. It will not be possible to keep up with new sites (or URLs if that is what is blocked) as they are created. If they block domains or (even worse) IP addresses then vast numbers of "clean" pages will be blocked due to one single bad image on one page of one site.

4. The filter is horrendously expensive. I don't remember where I saw it now or whether it was referring to the already incurred costs or the future projected costs but I saw the figure $44 million attributed to this project. Of course, it will cost the ISPs who have to implement it some large amount on top of this as well and both the Government's and the ISP's money will ultimately come from us; customers and tax payers.

04 November 2008, 11:09 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Concerned Citizen (New user):

Ugh, all those complaints about the Facebook ban are so ridiculous it's not even funny, it shouldn't have been mentioned. Pretty much turns an otherwise informative and note worthy article into a forgettable political rant.

I suppose browsing the rest of the comments shows that it doesn't matter much, though.

04 November 2008, 11:46 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Concerned Citizen:
Ugh, all those complaints about the Facebook ban are so ridiculous

So you see it as AOK for a public official, to control what staffers do in their private lives. To condone that vanity and the effort to stage manage a public image that masks the intents of the individual is what is really ridiculous.

Quoting Concerned Citizen:
turns an otherwise informative and note worthy article into a

No! Angus's inclusion of that reference was on the money.




05 November 2008, 8:43 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

agami (User):

Our government does not operate as mandated, and for most the people it represents wouldn't have a clue. The 'average Joe' does not see how this decision, or many others like it, affects him in the grander scheme of things.

So the next time a portion of your industry gets closed domestically and moved off-shore, there's no point going up to parliament and protesting, the decision was made months ago and the lack of your opposition counted as consent.

05 November 2008, 12:29 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting agami:
and the lack of your opposition counted as consent.

I could not agree more, the apathy of the public and their inability to see through the feel-good veneer applied to policies that eat into our quality of life, is nothing short of depressing.




05 November 2008, 12:39 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Jason in Melb (New user):

How about the most simplest arguement that for every hurdle put in the way to control technology has been defeated if not by one person (aka DVD Jon) or hundreds maybe thousands (think TOR). And the thing that astounds me the most, is that there are hundreds (thousands???) of examples of where controlling technology has been defeated, that date back to the earliest days of computers.

05 November 2008, 9:52 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

ngmares (New user):

6. The ACMA's own report reveals “most filters are not presently able to identify illegal content and content that may be regarded as inappropriate that is carried via the majority of non-web protocols”. Stephen Conroy's ignorance of this demonstrates an enormous level of arrogance and stupidity.

06 November 2008, 1:02 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

ngmares (New user):

6. The ACMA's own report “Closed Environment Testing of ISP-Level Internet Content Filtering” states “most filters are not presently able to identify illegal content and content that may be regarded as inappropriate that is carried via the majority of non-web protocols”, i.e. content over instant messaging, P2P, VPN, etc. Stephen Conroy's ignorance of this demonstrates an enormous level of arrogance and stupidity.

06 November 2008, 1:05 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

deeranger (New user):

Whatever the pros and cons of this stupid filter may be, calling the ALP "left-wing" is just wrong and an insult to progressive thinkers.

07 November 2008, 4:56 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

deeranger (New user):

Whatever the pros and cons of this stupid filter may be, calling the ALP "left-wing" is just wrong and an insult to progressive thinkers.

07 November 2008, 4:59 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Halcon (Cornerstone member):

This stupid government is trying to do this just to rob money, they are not after the well being of the citizens of this country.
Think again, the Labour party is composed of ignorant people trying to guide others to the black hole!

14 November 2008, 11:01 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

larfin1 (New user):

more importantly its about the govt deciding what is wanted or unwanted on my pc , they appear to be acting in concert with the ACL , the labor govt moral advisers, no doubt at great cost to taxpayers.

22 November 2008, 12:35 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Daora84 (New user):

I reckon this bill Won't pass :) the ISP censorship thing...coz majority of australians would complain the interenet is slow and some content they cant access like msn and chat rooms, some forums and online games!

04 December 2008, 5:47 PM (11 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Daora84 (New user):

First of i hope that the ISP filtering bill won't pass the senate! So many australians dont want the filter nore the ISP coz the ISP will lose their customers coz of peformance issues! has teh govenrment thought of that? lol

04 December 2008, 5:50 PM (11 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Melsy (New user):

There is an official petition that everyone can sign that is opposing internet filtering, it can be downloaded and printed from www.stunnedmullets.com .. currently 15,000 signatures have been collected, however 20,000 is the target, due to the petition that 20,000 religious activists blindly signed to bring mandatory censorship into Australia, the petition will hold more weight in parliament, we are struggling to get the last 5,000, all help is needed, if you haven't yet signed please do.

12 February 2009, 11:16 PM (9 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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