Obey
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USER RAGE: eBay restricts payments to Paypal only

Angus Kidman
10 April 2008, 2:36 PM


Enraged users are accusing eBay of anti-competitive profiteering after it announced PayPal would be the only payment option for online auctions from mid-June.


In a move that is remarkably similar to Microsoft's efforts in the 90s to force users of Windows to use only Internet Explorer, eBay has announced Australian shoppers must now pay through its payment service, PayPal.

Under the changes announced today, all listings on ebay.com.au from May 21 will be required to offer PayPal (the online quasi-banking service owned and operated by eBay) as a payment option, and from June 17 only PayPal and cash payment on collection will be permitted. Bank deposits, postal orders, cheques -- and any payment service not provided by eBay (such as PayMate and Google Checkout) will be completely banned.

The only exception eBay will make to this new rule is the sale of houses, vehicles and businesses.

"Essentially eBay is no longer willing to stand aside and allow payment methods that are less safe for consumers," eBay trust and safety director Alastair MacGibbon told APC. He anticipates that the change won't be noticed by many sellers and buyers: "Most people already use PayPal on eBay. Most listings have PayPal on them." Users who don't want to register for a PayPal account will be able to make one-time payments via Mastercard or Visa through the service, but sellers must all have PayPal accounts to receive payments.

There are currently 5 million Australians with PayPal accounts, but many sellers baulk at using the service because of the transaction fees involved in accepting payments (buyers don't pay to use the service to make payments).

Many sellers feel powerless with PayPal's bloody-minded focus on protecting buyers at all expense. Buyers can cancel their payment through PayPal simply by saying they never received the goods -- even if they did. "Half my PayPal funds go in chargebacks . . . which is why I no longer take PayPal," one seller wrote on eBay's discussion board today.

"There will be a vocal minority that may not understand the changes and may not appreciate the changes," MacGibbon conceded, but he insisted the switch would be beneficial for everybody: "If it's good for a person buying online, then it's good for a seller, and ultimately it's good for eBay."

eBay is heavily promoting the change as a safety measure. Its internal figures show that items paid for via bank deposits (the most widely used alternate electronic method) are four times more likely to result in disputes than items paid for via PayPal. But even if physical methods are risky, why not also offer the choice of using other electronic payment methods?

"I can only go with the numbers we've got. Clearly you have less chance of a problem if you pay with PayPal. eBay and PayPal share an enormous amount of data on fraud and other activities. By creating that closed loop system, that increases the level of safety."

Asked if that was a tad disingenuous given that Google Checkout is already blocked and thus wouldn't show up in any safety figures, MacGibbon countered: "Google and eBay don't share information about where the payment is going. Information shared on fraud is very, very important."

Of course, it has nothing to do with the fact that eBay takes a cut of every PayPal payment, effectively boosting its share of the money made on each online auction.

Given that eBay will now attract listing fees, final value fees, and PayPal fees which encompass both sale price and postage, many sellers are likely to see the move as naked profiteering. That's a narrow view, MacGibbon argued.

"This is directly addressing issues, real or perceived, that Australian buyers have. eBay clearly needs sellers to be successful and I would ask sellers to think about that. I would sincerely hope that those sellers see that this is an initiative to make buyers more confident."

The changes will also impact international listings accessed from the site: if a US item offers payment by postal order, for example, that won't be available as an option for Australian buyers, MacGibbon said.

"You are total scum"

While PayPal will increase the value of its buyer protection scheme from $3,000 to $20,000 at the same time, that may not be enough to calm an angry reaction from sellers. Sellers on eBay's discussion boards reacted savagely to the announcement, their anger further fuelled by the fact that several media outlets broke the story ahead of its official announcement on the site.

"I had not thought it was possible for eBay to behave in a more disgusting way than they already do but they have succeeded," one poster wrote. "Congratulations eBay, you are total scum." Sellers are already fuming about forthcoming changes to eBay's feedback system which will no longer allow negative feedback about buyers.

Some eBay sellers suggested on discussion boards that the change would make them quit the site. "I could not say how this will actually affect the company in the short-term," MacGibbon said. Past suggestions of boycotting eBay have tended to falter because of the lack of alternative outlets with sufficiently large traffic volumes to attract buyers.

MacGibbon said there was no current plan to copy the PayPal move in other countries, but didn't dismiss the possibility outright. "This is an Australian initiative, but eBay does clearly look at what works in markets and what doesn't." He dismissed suggestions that sellers would soon only be allowed to pay listing and transaction fees via PayPal: "I know of no such plans."

On the eBay discussion boards, some sellers suggested that it would be possible to mention alternate payment options in listings, even if these were not part of the formal checkout process. MacGibbon said that any such listings would be swiftly removed.

"eBay will enforce these provisions, because these provisions are there to protect consumers. We'd encourage people to click on the report this item button if they encounter it. If I was a consumer and I saw a person asking me to pay in a way that wasn't endorsed by the site, I would think they were a fraudster."


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Steve_08 (New user):

So now you get done by 2 sets of fees, isnt that double dipping. Funny enough i have never been ripped off using a D-Deposit but i have using PayPal and ebay didnt want anything to do with me.
Anyway time will tell


10 April 2008, 3:00 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Regular user):

Not just sellers are angry. Many buyers are too.

And the line about most transactions being done via Paypal... Utter bullplop if the sellers and buyers speaking up are anything to go by. Highest number quoted by any seller I've seen is 50% paypal. There was one seller with over 5000 feedback points who said they mostly get direct deposit.
Oh, and cash on pickup... Must still be listed with Paypal as an option.

eBay Australia have lost the plot, and will lose many sellers, and buyers.

10 April 2008, 4:54 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

jonwil (New user):

I wonder if what eBay are doing violates any Australian laws. Maybe someone needs to ask the ACCC to investigate.


10 April 2008, 5:07 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

FostWare (New user):

Do PayPal fall outside the banking regulations in Australia, like it does in the US?

With no ombudsman or commission to go to, and PayPal's "honesty" and (short time window) procedures as the only form of recourse, this means the scam artists (and eBay) will win.

10 April 2008, 5:30 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

elitehacker (New user):

Theses measures are not anti-competitive, if that's what you are getting at. I don't think there is much we can do legally about these changes. A more reasonable approach if they want more revenue is to just force Paypal in every listing, but allow other payment methods. These measures are just a blatant grab for cash. Increase security...what bs =_=".

10 April 2008, 5:51 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

McBanjo (New user):

Ironically, as a seller, if you charge buyers extra fees for choosing PayPal, eBay will remove your listing because it is promoted as being unfair. Now they're doing the same thing. Increased protection my arse. Bank transfers work the same way the whole eBay system works, through user feedback.

If they want more profits, they should just increase their Insertion and Final Value Fees. This Paypal thing was the wrong way to go. I am now going to be a lot more sceptical before I use eBay. At least we know all of eBay's prices are going to go up.

10 April 2008, 6:49 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

usrad (New user):

I've just fired off a complaint to eBay and intend to follow this up with a complaint to the ACCC as a restrictive practice that is designed to boost eBay's profits, at the expense of consumer choice.

I am disgusted at this cheap tactic!

10 April 2008, 8:57 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

maccaorgordon (New user):

ACCC what is that and what is theor email address as i'd like to send my complaint as well and if all ebay users that are not happy with the greedy fithy mongrels " seeing ebay OWN paypal "...., i think that they should email their dissatisfaction and then maybe something will happen "it's called people power
Cheers

07 November 2008, 10:49 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tom Mez (New user):

I have been on eBay for about 6 years, and have 480 feedback counts to my username. 99% of my transactions have been direct deposit, and no problems. I have a PayPal account only for overseas purchases, I don't offer it as a buying payment method - the fees are way too high.

This is a blatant profiteering move by eBay, sorry guys, time to move to an alternative selling website, a message to eBay - STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, how not to manage your member relationship. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, any dog knows that.

10 April 2008, 9:11 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

pagedesigner (New user):

If there was ever a time for a serious competitor to come onto the Australian online auction scene, now is it. After being ripped off by PayPal due to the claims of a fraudulent buyer, I now no longer offer it in my listings and do not want to be forced to in the future. Furthermore, payPal have proven them do be not trustworthy. They clained that they would resolve my appeal within 72 hours and they took 3 weeks. Furthermore, they state that they record incoming phone calls "for training purposes". Out of courtesy, I informed PayPal that I record phone calls for my own record keeping purposes and I was declined permission! As far as I can tell, my buyers are 100% happy paying by DD. The sooner Ebay realise the folly of this current action and drop the idea, the better for all. "pagedesigner"

10 April 2008, 9:52 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Regular user):

There is one already. www.oztion.com.au

It's styled similar to ebay, based in Australia (if you didn't guess), and apparently has much lower fees. Unfortunately, it's not as well known which limits sale items. And the site's not quite as polished, so it's not quite as nice on the eyes.

10 April 2008, 10:01 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

maccaorgordon (New user):

i sell AUSSIE MADE beer fridge stickers on Oztion and the reason it is not very well known is because of the way the name is spelt , it is very hard to say without swallowing your tounge let alone spell it ... i've told stacks of people how great Oztion is and in a few weeks when isee them the first thing they say to me is....how do you spell that website name ? Oztion told me 2 years ago that they have spent too much money on advertising to change it but that is why they will not suceed to the high level of ebay 'cause they won't use common sense , i still RELUCTANTLY use ebay but direct patment is my preferred way of payment but i can't stop people using PayPal "which cost me as well .
Cheers

07 November 2008, 10:45 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Sick of eBay (New user):

Im telling you watch the new one opening on the 30th of this month, they have had more exposure before opening than other Aussie sites, I was there the other day and they had the counter on and there was 1700 people on there, I dont care what it looks like as long as it is easy to use and performs well,www.bang4bucks.com.au Can you imagine seeing feebay dont pay GST how much money is leaving our economy that could go towards schools and hospitals.Get behind a new site that is willing to take on eBay even in the media articles published, thats Guts which I take my hat off to.

23 April 2008, 11:04 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Obi-Wan Kenobi (New user):

Will Weird Al have to update his song? Because to eBay out of Pay Pal or Visa only Pay Pal will please them.

11 April 2008, 7:24 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Regular user):

Nah... Cause he's in USA, and this is Australia only.

11 April 2008, 9:49 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Universe_JDJ (New user):

For now anyway.

11 April 2008, 1:43 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Danny Gorog (APC staff):

Also worth remembering that the PayPal fee is on the TOTAL transaction amount, not just selling amount!

11 April 2008, 11:12 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Universe_JDJ (New user):

I was unhappy enough with those feedback policy changes, now they're screwing with the system that allows sellers to receive payments however they like. Blatant profiteering. Hopefully the ACCC steps in here. These changes by eBay will only make it easier for any alternative services to continue growing and seeing eBay's recent policy changes, maybe the elimination of eBay may be in the best interests of everyone.

11 April 2008, 12:30 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dan Warne (Regular user):

Surefire way to ensure that PayPal gets the same monopoly in online transactions as eBay has already... evil, evil, evil.

I hope Google finds a good way to break this monopoly with Google Checkout. Perhaps Google needs to create an online auction site that doesn't keep ratcheting up the fees and restrictions on consumers in the way eBay does.

11 April 2008, 1:04 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Universe_JDJ (New user):

I suppose that Google is one such company that is in a unique position to either take over from eBay with their own system, or bring some healthy competition to put eBay back in its place.

11 April 2008, 1:41 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Wazza (User):

I'm not a huge user of eBay (although I should ask my wife this question)so I'm not really sure on the protocols for payments. Can they stop people from paying COD or cash in hand on pick up? I suspect not but they are a pretty powerful beast

11 April 2008, 4:21 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dan Warne (Regular user):

Actually, cash in hand on pickup is the only other allowable method. But when you consider the proportion of goods that are mailed (interstate and internationally), cash on collection ain't going to be much good.

Then again, perhaps "cash" could become code for "direct deposit or any other payment method" -- but I'm guessing eBay would disclaim any fraud protection coverage if people paid this way.

11 April 2008, 4:31 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Davidchr (New user):

Cash is the only real "Legal Tender" in Australia, it would be against the constitution to ban payment this way. All other forms of payment are just a "promise" to pay the amount in cash, although it may be argued that Direct Deposit is the electronic version of paying cash. Just another instance of the legal system not keeping up with the internet. Rest assured they would ban cash if they legally could.

16 April 2008, 8:21 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Davidchr (New user):

It would be against the Constitution not to allow Cash for payment, it is still the only "Legal Tender" in the country, every other method is just a type of promisary note. If it wasn't you can rest assured eBay would have outlawed cash also.

16 April 2008, 8:23 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Davidchr (New user):

Cash is the only real "Legal Tender" in Australia, it would be against the constitution to ban payment this way. All other forms of payment are just a "promise" to pay the amount in cash, although it may be argued that Direct Deposit is the electronic version of paying cash. Just another instance of the legal system not keeping up with the internet. Rest assured they would ban cash if they legally could.

16 April 2008, 8:23 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

drewhiggins (New user):

That's interesting. I wonder if they can do anything once the transaction takes place and eBay is finished with.

Oh well, eBay's lost another customer if the above is not true.

11 April 2008, 4:43 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

artax (New user):

Next Ebay will introduse the Ebay dollar and require buyers to purchase these with a %10 total going to Ebay as a sucurity deposite!! and you can only use Ebay using the new Ebay OS costing %25 more then Win Vista becaude it is more secure!!!

12 April 2008, 2:15 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Duke0102 (New user):

The thing that bothers me the most is that Paypal ISNT as secure and reliable as they claim. I always hear of storys that people have paid with paypal, not recieved the item and paypal basicaly said tough s**t. Does this mean there going to try and stop cash on collection style purchases?

13 April 2008, 9:09 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Rick (New user):

Unless they make paypal totally free, this is a very bad move.


when is google going to come in and save the day

14 April 2008, 9:56 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Cuda (New user):

I was charged $1 for my "free" paypal account , not a lot but still something . Today I paid for an item listed in US Dollars and the total paypal charged me was more than the ebay listing by around 15 cents ,again not a lot of money but times that by a few million users and there is some serious money .

14 April 2008, 6:21 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Universe_JDJ (New user):

eBay know that very well. That's the reason this is all happening. Corporate Greed.

16 April 2008, 8:32 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Universe_JDJ (New user):

New News: (Ebay is being investigated)

http://tinyurl.com/3fvaqb

16 April 2008, 11:23 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Steve_08 (New user):

lol is on now
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/17697/1023/1/1/

17 April 2008, 2:52 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

annoyed (New user):

Everyone sits back and lets ebay continuosly walk over sellers and buyers, as long as they can do it they will.
Im shifting over to www.bang4bucks.com.au Australian site and looks like they are supporting Paymate which is even better.
Try and keep the money in Australia for a change.
bang4bucks should be a good alternative

22 April 2008, 10:34 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Steve_08 (New user):

In my inbox this morning:

We regret that your eBay account has been suspended due to the following policy violation:
*Non-payment of eBay fees*
You have not paid the AU $0.08 balance on your eBay account.

LMAO

23 April 2008, 10:01 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

maccaorgordon (New user):

What ever happened to freedom of choice ?.."HITLER was a dictator" i add in my add to the buyers to add $2-00 to the cost as i will not consume the cost of paypals charges to me when i advertise i state in BIG letters that direct deposit is my PREFFERED payment method followed by paymate and NOT paypal 5 million sales x $2-00 minimum = $10 million dollars why should we pay any extra fees on top of excessive fees they already charge Oztion is a better option but the pridefull pricks won't get rid of that stupid name they use 'tis a pity most people keep asking me how to spell it , anyway direct deposit is the SAFEST way to pay without a doubt " i hate GREED with a passion ,it makes me sick
Cheers
Gordon
macca@tsn.cc

28 May 2008, 3:53 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

zucker (New user):

How DARE ebay force paypal onto all their customers! Paypal safer?? One only has to type 'paypal lawsuits' into google and see how many people they have screwed who are now trying to sue the b*stards. PAYPAL IS crapE!!!! The no of anti-paypal sites and the volume of people posting on their is proof of this. And where the hell do they get the figure that using paypal is 4 times safer? BS! Don't believe that crap for one moment... Ebay just pulled that from their ars*. It's just another one of those nonsense statistics which taken out of context mean nothing. I've done 400+ transactions on ebay, buying and selling with 99% direct deposit which has never been a problem. All this BS talk about the lack of security with other payment methods yet where are the actual ebay customers coming out complaining of the huge problems they've had with direct deposit??? NOTHING. Ebay have cancelled listings of mine before due to specifying "paypal for international buyers only" due to being unfair discrimination. Now they are trying to turn around and remove our freedom of choice as consumers! Dirty disgusting greedy corporate Hitlers!!!! Alistair and the rest of those dirty ebay w*nkers need to be brought into line!

05 June 2008, 8:28 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Glasseyoz (New user):

The reason eBay will probably get away with this is that there don't seem to be any Anti Monopoly laws here. In the U.S. this type of deal would never get off the ground. Ebay is only a facillitator for sales. They do not actually do the selling yet they tell you how to sell and that the buyer is ALWAYS right. There are many instances where PayPal have taken the "fraudulent" word of a buyer to get their goods for free. Let's remember - PayPal uses your money in the market place. All payments to eBay go through a SWISS account. Try contacting PayPal and see how far you get. They do not exist to help their customers. I use PayPal through a different site where it is an option. NOT a requirement. I have never had a problem with Direct Deposit. Why should eBay tell me that now there will be many problems if I don't use THEIR system exculively. Goodbye eBay and PayPal.

09 June 2008, 3:52 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

BillWhite1945 (New user):

This is a good site for finding if a item is a scam

www.auctionerrol.com

09 July 2008, 10:24 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

sesshy is sexy (New user):

I use EBAY as a buyer and I only use "postal money orders".
When ebay did this they screwed it up bad. for one thing there half of ebay users who don't use paypal for good reason. I think paypal is stupid; your sending money over the internet a hacker could steal the money right then. With money orders they can be tracked and also tell you if they were cashed and by whom. I did sum digging into ebay's reason why they did this was sadly paypal "pulling" the strings on ebay. what paypal was going to do was stop working with ebay. If they did not make it paypal ONLY. ebay had no choice. Im sure ebay is very mad just as we are. Im sure they have records of all the users of ebay that used POSTAL MONEY ONLY.
I used to use paypal it was nice. One day I purchesed an item on ebay I wanted them to send the item to another address not my home it was a gift for someone. they refused and so I killed my account.
BRITTANY LEE MIKOWSKI

13 January 2009, 3:59 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

JackHolland (New user):

I think this can be legally challenged in the courts. Just read the back of any US Dollar bill. It states that this note is legal tender for any debt public or private. Thus, when you sell something the buyer owes a debt. Dollars can then be used by the buyer to settle the debt...he or she does not have to use Paypal...take this one to the courthouse and I guarantee you eBay will have to change its policy....Jack Holland of thelastamericannewspaper.com



18 July 2009, 3:27 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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