What Telstra didn't want to hear

Anonymous2222222222:

If they listened broadband might actually be decent.

BTW I voted Telstra is holding it back.

Anonymous1:

Now they have stated that someone spammed the poll, poor telstra just don't have a clue.

Anonymous3w1234:

They took the poll down and blamed being 'spammed'.

Yeah right. They just can't handle the truth.

I wonder if they'll retrospectivly delete the old polls becuase they were spammed as well?

Telstra are pathetic.

Anonymous1234:

I really dont think that telstra actually learnt from a previous poll that they put up:

Who is mostly to blame for Australia missing out on a high-speed fibre network (FTTN) for broadband?

ACCC - 25.5%
Australian Government - 34.3%
Telstra - 40.2%

Total votes: 823. Poll date: 09 August 2006 to 23 August 2006


WOW...that really looks oddly familiar with the recent results. Still with telstra as the loser in the poll.

As Expected:

If polls don't give the desired responses... it must have been hacked. ;)

Poll replaced and lead story claims interference. Disingenous at best.

justthething84:

If you compare Optus ADSL 2 plan that has 60GB and 20mbps and the Telstra plan with the same specs there is an $70.00 difference. Optus' plan is $79.95 and Telstra's is $149.95. Optus 'yes' data (40GB of the 60GB) can only be downloaded between 12midnight and 12noon) but looking at that - it is obvious which plan is the one with the better value. Plus people can set up things to download during this time anyway like movies and games etc.

Telstra has been ripping this country off for years and they need to wake up to the fact that they are being unfair with their internet prices. Telstra tells me the reason their plans are dearer is because they offer other services such as Bigpond movies. Last time I had a look at Bigpond movies on Media Center in Windows Vista Ultimate it crashed. Another issue all together, but after looking through their range of tv shows I couldn't even find what I was looking for. Telstra is spreading itself thinly like butter over too much bread. Telstra should concentrate on providing what it's supposed to do ie. provide telecommunications technology instead of some lame online movie site. Not to mention the pathetic Bigpond presence on Second Life. Every time I go to Bigpond on Second Life there is 0-5 people at any one time. Extra services such as these are unnecessary and divert away from Telstra is supposed to do in the first place.

Telstra's customer service is abysmal. Every time I email them I have been replied to with a default template response that has been set up almost like a mail merge - a document that Telstra has created and just changes it to include your name. This is poor quality customer service. All responses I have received from Telstra via email have also been filled up with Bigpond movies advertising.

Telstra rates itself as a World-class telecommunications company however I fail to see what it does better than Optus. One day Telstra will have to succumb to the competitive prices offered by companies such as Optus . The general population (non IT) would chose Telstra as an ISP because they are uncomfortable of using ISPs such as TPG and Optus because they are not familiar with them and Telstra takes advantage of this and charges them a fortune. It's greedy.

Anon:

has anyone seen the current poll on NWAT?
it asks "Have you ever tried to rig an online poll?"

out of 1711 votes.
yes - 38
no - 137
i don't know how - 1536

this is a classic comeback by the public, to the clowns that run Telstra.

Mick:

Notice how they've taken this poll down now that it has gone so obviously against them. They now are asking if you've ever tried to rig an online poll.

amazed:

This is a silly article. I went to the now we are talking page to check it out and it turns out some hackers skewed the results. I wonder if it were the idiot who wrote this article?

Martin:

... and you know this definitively ... how ? Because Telstra told you ? Change your monicker from "amazed" to "gullible".

Matt:

You might want to have a look at the site now. The latest poll is titled "Have you ever tried to rig an online poll?".

Telstra spin doctors at work.

Kevin:

To put it simply if you want someone to do something then you give then what they want in return.
The government wants telstra to built a fibre
network yet there not willing to give any simple regulartory guarantees in return. As is expected
of the liberal government they are against the labor
party idea of spending government money on broadband
and instead want companies like telstra to spend over $4 billion of its own money providing infrastucture and therefore doing the governments job. If the government not going to do it themselves then the accc should stick out of telstra business. All telstra was is assurance that they wont have to sell access to the fibre network to competitors at below cost. If telstra is the one that builds the network then it is their network so competitors shouldnt get cheap access. Telstras prices to its customers will be fair prices, they just dont want to help out competitors which is reasonable. Telstra wants to build a fibre network for the country and they dont ask for much in return. If you dont like it then go spend your own $4 billion and you can give your services to competitors at below cost so that they can profit instead if you want but that would be stupid.

Anonymous_UsedAlready:

You will also find that telstra want to make it impossible for current providers to use the current system. IE the new system *replaces* copper, making all the investment others have made in ADSL infrastructure useless.
Telstra aren't asking for the cost to competitors to be above cost; they want it to be WELL into the profit range.
If they are going to destroy their competitors infrastructure AND destroy pricing in broadband at the same time, count me out of a Telstra broadband solution.

Mark:

hate to sya this but 4 billion was a rather conservative guestimate, the actual cost of the network is expected to be a lot more

kevin:

ur comment about $4billion being a guestimate, why do you think i clearly stated "over $4 billion" this clearly means i meant more than that amount which shows that i agree that it would cost more than that amount.

KevinJ:

Kevin it sounds like you are suggesting the Federal Government lets Telstra have it's cake and eat it too. Every day I hear arguments about how Telstra owns the infrastructure and G9 can't replace it without paying for it and no-one else can get into the ducts and lay new cables blah blah blah. Yet now you come out with this rubbish that the Government has to pay for the upgrade. I guess once that is over you'll go back to the old spin of It's OUR network and you can't touch it rubbish. If the government pays for it the GOVERNMENT owns it, NOT Telstra.

Besides if Telstra only wanted to make a fair profit they wouldn't have the ridiculous bills coming out like we see reported each month. $500 for one month of ADSL. Or get this, $15,000 for one month of ISDN Internet Access. That is hardly an example of Telstra recouping the costs of supplying the service. It is blatant profit grabbing and should be illegal.

kevin:

i see that you seem to forget the labour proposal which is what i was refering to, meaning if they pay and do not sell of network then it governments. And yeah current networks are telstras because they were built by telstra yeh using government money but that has been paid back mutiple times over and the sell off of telstra now means that shareholders legally own the networks.

Anonymousggggggggggggg:

Telstra have now pulled the poll off the page and are claiming that it was 'spammed'.
They can't even get the terminology right, let alone consider the result may be genuine. What hope is there?

roydsy:

telstra have pulled the poll down claiming that it was spammed and the results skewed. Pffft. truly sad PR.

Anonymous5:

They are trying to say for "the first time ever" the poll has been rigged.

Bollocks.

Telstra admits manipulating surveys
whirlpool.net.au/article.cfm/711

Telstra management found poll rigging ''incredibly funny''
whirlpool.net.au/article.cfm/752

MisterEd:

They have now updated the poll on their homepage.

The current poll reads "Have you ever tried to rig an online poll?".

It seems they are trying to suggest someone has been stuffing fake votes into the poll.

Their claim does have some merit to it. According to the archived polls page 13,324 votes were made on that poll. In previous polls the highest they got was only 2,664 votes.

It certainly does seem that someone has decided to rig the poll.

D.R.:

I just when to the Telstra joke site and it seems that someone has been spamming their polls and distorting the results so they have removed the poll.
Why do I find this hard to believe since I don't know of anyone who has too many favourable things to say about Telstra?

Can not believe how pathetic that site is. Some marketing people really do have there hand on it.

bryce roney:

Apparently according to the holy grail of journalistic unbiasedness, the Telstra team have claimed the poll as being hacked - www.nowwearetalking.com.au

DM:

I notice that Telstra have removed the poll from their site. They claim that it has been 'spammed'. This does not explain all the other results though....

Jamie:

They've taken down the Poll and accused "Spammers"

That's funny

tin:

Current replacement poll is as childish as most Telstra stunts. Wonder if they'll ever replace their management with grown-ups....

The poll is also meaningless anyway. Who's going to admit they have possible mangled previous Telstra polls? Thus a large number of votes may be unreliable.

Aubrey:

This was my first visit to that site and it really is a sad indictment on what was once a good company. Childish is putting mildly. It looks like something some right-wing American lobbyist would have come up with (maybe 10 years ago).

But after reading one "article" I do now suspect that Coonan woman to be the devil incarnate and probably responsible for rigging the poll. And that Samuels guy must eat children.

raindog:

Anyone taking the time to read the spin doctoring on the Telstra propaganda site should also read This Site for a more honest account of what is going on in Australian telecommunications.

Tell The Truth Telstra !!!

bill:

You'd also have to concider that most of these polls will be rigged.

Once someone posts up about a poll on Whirlpool the people there vote on the polls making the pols way out of wack as well.

100,000 site vistors doesn't mean anything were compared to the number of people who have voted on the polls.

You would have to take this into account as well.

Something to think about if Telstra never paid to install DSL these ISPs would not exist at all.

raindog:

if Telstra never paid to install DSL these ISPs would not exist at all If Avis & Hertz didn't buy utilities and hire them out for profit, businesses wouldn't be able use them for contracts!
If Taxi Drivers didn't buy Cabs they wouldn't be able to lease travel in them!
These companies are regulated on what they do and on how much they can charge for services, why should Telstra expect to be exempt from similar regulation.
Telstra profits heartily from resale, the fact the resellers of Telstra wholesale can deliver a better and cheaper service than Bigpond could ever dream of doing is what irks Telstra.
Telsta is in the box seat to be Australia's premium value provider but this has never, and will probably never materialise, the public are responding with their wallets and their sneakers.

Even if this poll had a disproportionate response from Whirlpool readers it is still a broad response from that cross section of internet users. Whirlpool has no direct alliance and offers space for comment on all telcos and resellers, so its still a damning condemnation of Sol's dwindling telco.

From what I've seen of Sol's leadership of Telstra, I doubt he could effectively manage a shopping centre phone kiosk. Sol would be demanding all other phone kiosks be banned from the centre and he would want government subsidies for his handset stock. Hell the man cant even organise his PR chumps to run a suitably lopsided poll on a propaganda website.

Mark:

as for taxi drivers having to buy taxis, this is true however they do not need to lend/rent their taxis to their competitors at a government decided price. e.g. swan taxis does not lend thier taxis to black and white taxis. if a company spend 4 billion dollars then why shouidl bthey have to let their competitors use their infrastructure, it is like saying to a mining company, ok you bought all this machinery so you can mine, however we would like you to lend your machinery to your competitor at a reasonable rate. yes we know this means you do not have full access to your infrastructure you paid for so you could provide a good reliable service, but we need to be fair to everyone, that can't afford to buy millions of dollars worth of mining equiptment. if the other telcos can't afford to build their own infrastructure then thats their bad luck.

and BTW i do actually hate telstra. so i am not on thier side i just see where they are coming from, in reality the government should pay for the infrastructure, i.e the labour idea is the only viable solution

raindog:

But take the taxi analogy a bit further, Telstra Taxis have their own fleet of cabs (Telstra Retail) and control of Taxi Ranks and dispatch system (Telstra Wholesale). If those same ranks and dispatch networks were originally funded from public money, Would it be fair for Telstra Cabs to expect monopoly access to all newer cab ranks and be allowed to charge rival cab companies whatever they wanted for use of existing ranks and dispatch?

Telsta has a stranglehold on the exchange infrastructure, the tunnels pits & trenches, of the network. That same infrastructure was not provided as the result of Telstra shareholder investment it was public money spent over many decades. Use of those resources must be regulated and made equally available to all players.

Other providers become hindered by Telstra's monopoly access to infrastructure, those same rival Telcos are ready to invest but are hamstrung by disproportionate charges for use of resources that telstra inherited.

Why did it take till 2007 for Telstra to open the potential of existing ADSL infrastructure to it's real capacity of 8M?

Why will Telstra only install ADSL2 equipment after a competitor has trail-blazed the installation of ADSL2 to that same exchange?

Why does Telstra peddle the myth of others leaching off their equipment when those competitors pay rental for floor space, air conditioning, cable connections and line rental to equipment they themselves have financed and provided?

Why has Telstra deliberately restricted further roll-out of ADSL to regional and outer suburban areas, and can Telstra withstand close scrutiny to cost justification of their old tech services such as ISDN?

Make no mistake, left to their own devices Telstra would still have us all paying by the minute for dial-up Internet.

PnB_Predator:

Mate, that is the best post I have ever read. I simply don't know how ANYONE can defend Tel$stra when faced with the facts! They would have to be the company that MOST relies on lies, deceit and general lack of knowlege by the average consumer in australia.

kevin:

mark i agree with u fully

Robbo:

would you like a fight?

raindog:

The last one to be drawn to fisticuffs at the mere mention of the words "Taxi Driver" was former federal labour savior, a one Mr M Latham of Green Valley.
Robbo ? or is it Mark? :>

Anonymouse:

Sadly Telstra and their subsidiaries won't even listen to their own employees, why would they listen to the general public?

Standard argument from within, "it's my toy, you can look at it, but you can't touch!", and this is very much the same attitude it has with it's customers, including the wholesale ones...

Pirate Steve:

"In previous polls the highest they got was only 2,664 votes."

If you had a really good look you would see that the actual last highest vote numbers was over 6417. Oh yes and funnily enough that went agaist Telstra also.

Gwido:

Honestly how much effort would be involved to rig such a poll. Surely Telstra being the biggest Telco in AU has methods of stoppping such things from occurring.

Even a spoofed IP can be tracked back to the originator. Wouldn't a stateful packet inspection firewall prevent this from occurring?

Cmon Telstra stop with the bollocks and trying to monoplise things. They should of lived up to there poromise in the 80's and 90's and put FTTN in like they promised rather than hitting these brick walls now and being punished.

Australia's broadband network could be 100% better if the red tape was cut and the Telco's would co-operate more rather than have the interest of just there shareholders in mind.

Mark:

the whole fact that our servicesa re crap in aus is primarlily due to the government selling off telstra, making it a business responsible to it's shareholders, so when they want to run a service to the bush they look at the $ value, it's a business that wants to make money, so there is no money in providing a link to the middle of aus for 2 people to use. Tesltra is crap and their service is crap, but the real question is when did all this start, the answer is simple, when the governemt sold off telstra.

As for broadband, i firmly believe the govenment shoudl have control of infrastructure and be responsible for keeping it up to date. this way the government can provide decent links to the bush adn shareholders arent complaining about wasting money. labour does havethe right plan for moving forward with broadband in australia, which is amongst the worst service for a first world country in the world.

Mutkey:

.... because the following is true:
- the technology can be implemented
- young people like new technology and will use it (even paying throught their noses... or their parents!)
- Telstra will base their decision on popular demand... (that is young people's demand)
- the old technology will be faced out
against popular public agreement
- the businesses important to Telstra (Big business and Govt) will use the new technology once telstra ....forces them due to other means of communications (the ones being faced out)
- You, me and the rest of the smithes are outside of the equation... we dont count
- we either agree with Telstra and use their chosen technology, or we dont
- If we dont, then we dont count on their "customer based" head count therefore you dont count as a negative vote, or a positive, you just dont get counted!
- If we do, by no other choice, then we do get counted as a Telstra supporter of the technology being forced to use...

Example. I had a mobile on CDMA network, so did the majority of the Rural australia and most mobile financial lenders (on their wireless notebooks). Telstra faced out CDMA, even against GOVT, Rural people and local folks choice...

We were forced to move to GSM. Or not to use it.

now I am counted as a GSM Telstra supporter user, as I had no other choice...

JUST PLAIN BULLYING!!!

Gavin:

The reason the poll turned out in there favour was it was posted on Whirlpool which is a site that is actually about broadband with people who have an idea on what they are talking about

I bet 99% of the people supporting telstra's Nowwearetalking either are shareholders who just want more money or people who have absolutely no clue on how broadband work's or what telstra is doing

Telstra are a rip off and they CANNOT blame the ACC

Even back in the old 28.8k dialup days telstra were a rip off, They are ripping people off with there mobile phones, same with home lines

Telstra loose in there poll OH MY IT MUST HAVE BEEN RIGGED QUICKLY SHIFT THE BLAME ONTO SOMEONE ELSE MAKE US LOOK GOOD

Bunch of loosers

pleasewhyisntmytimevalued:

Well I have to say this is all very interesting. I too live in rural Australia, and by default have no choice of mobile or high speed broadband other than Telstra.

I also have been "encouraged" to move from CDMA and so have purchased a new phone that runs on NextG. A recent visit to the city enabled me to check out the phones that are available on NextG, and I would have purchased the desired one then and there but for the complete lack of honesty of the salesman - I have never experienced such an extreme lack of integrity, I was flabergasted, so I walked out and thought I will buy it online.

So I did.

The new phone arrived after about ten days via a courier. For those who don't understand how useless a courier is in rural Australia, ask me to explain.

So after the courier made his second visit to our local town and I made a special trip there to meet him it was all good..........or so I thought.

I had to ring 1800819023 to activate my phone. I suggest everyone try to do that, and convieniently you can only call between 9am and 4pm, Monday to Friday. I bet you can't find someone to pick up the phone, go on try it and prove me a liar!!

So after 2 days and over 5 hours of redialing the above number I finally got a real person to talk to. Guess what?? They had sent the wrong sim card!! That was last Friday when I finally got to talk to someone, today I decide that the new sim card that was promised to be sent last Friday was probably lost on startrack so I called again (I had asked that it be sent Australia Post because they actually have a phyisical presence in our town, but was told that Telstra only deals with startrack).......same stuff, I could not get onto anyone, eventually I rang every number listed on the website hoping for someone to at least care a little ( I sent an email and received a form type response, I had given all my details but there was no aknowledgement), I was so distressed, I got a headache and I never get headaches, I was nearly in tears.

I used to say that at least Telstra looks after us in the bush, well I don't think that anymore - I really am lost for words when I try to explain this madness.

Thankyou for reading this.

raindog:

What's the chances of Geek Gear printing that poll onto a T-Shirt?

Who'd like to be seen around town in a something both fashionable and informative?

Brian White:

Is it me, or has Testicle Telstra removed the polls from NWAT ?

Cant get the results you want, with your own polls on your own website ? Thats right, Remove the polls.

justthething84:

The testicle needs a shave, that is, shave the PRICES OF BIGPOND (testicle) PLANS.

Nice affordable Testicle for everyone. Then we'll all like Testicle.

Kevin:

telstra is not running a charity. You shouldnt expect them to provide a service below the price they want to charge. If you cant afford it then that your own problem and stop your complaining and let telstra build the network under any circumstances they like so that australians who can afford the service dont have to wait for ages. People who complain about internet prices are the same that complain about petrol prices. If petrol companies want to charge higher prices and there economic outcome improves then let them. If they can sell less petrol at a higher price and still make higher profits then good on them. Surely you cant expect petrol companies to lower their prices just as a good gesture for the public. If u cant afford something then boo hoo bad for you. I cant afford to buy aston martin i dont complain and say they should lower their price. If you are looking for charity then go to the salvation army.

raindog:

telstra is not running a charity.(Obviously) You shouldn't expect them to provide a service below the price they want to charge.(I guess I shouldn't expect polite and efficient customer service or value for money or consistent delivery of service at those over inflated Telstra prices either)
If you cant afford it then that your own problem and stop your complaining and let telstra build the network under any circumstances they like so that Australians who can afford the service dont have to wait for ages.(the poor value and over-pricing has little to do building a network, despite Telstra being the only party to profit from every Australian Internet connection they have invested little, anyone who has seen the changes and neglect within exchanges over the last decade will confirm this)
People who complain about Internet prices are the same that complain about petrol prices.(Yes consumers with a clue. Your point is?) If petrol companies want to charge higher prices and there economic outcome improves then let them.(Um, no , petrol companies have to provide some degree of justification for their pricing or face heavy regulation, a concept Telstra had better come to Terms with) If they can sell less petrol at a higher price and still make higher profits then good on them.(No! not from a monopoly position they cannot, that's what the ACCC is there for. And all strength to Mr Samuels) Surely you cant expect petrol companies to lower their prices just as a good gesture for the public.(We dont! We expect them to abide by the law of the land. This may be a hostile concept to Sol as he acts out his "how the west was won" fantasy, but after he watches any cowboy movie he should soon come to terms with the Hombres always getting shot and the good guys always winning out.) If u cant afford something then boo hoo bad for you.(And Boo Hoo for the the long term survival of any organisation that cannot offer market competitive prices) I cant afford to buy Aston Martin(No on a junior Telstra PR monkeys salary, I am not surprised.) i dont complain and say they should lower their price.(That's good, I doubt AM sales people have much time for dreamers, fools or time wasters) If you are looking for charity then go to the salvation army (If you are looking to win an argument or even to make a point of view then you'd best have something meaningful to say.)

kevin:

as is obvious in the text i meant aston martin the company and well too late man the sales reps have already dealt with me.

justthething84:

Telstra Bigpond plans are too expensive. They have always been over priced and the general consumer who is not IT literate doesn't know this.

As for petrol prices, we are talking about Internet plans and that is a totally different thing. As Telstra says "compare like with like" not apples and peaches. By the way I personally couldn't care less about the price of petrol but lets not divert attention away from THE HUGE PRICE OF BIGPOND PLANS.

Telstra charges too much for Internet plans and it takes advantage of the innocent uninformed non-IT consumer. Telstra is a joke to most IT people because any smart person in the know wouldn't touch Telstra Bigpond plans with a 5km copper line unless they had too (ie due to the pathetic roll out of broadband they may be unfortunately STUCK with Telstra).

People in IT aren't stupid and they know Telstra charges way over the amount that every other ISP charges. This stops technology uptake in the country simply because people can't afford the plans.

Kevin:

people have said that because the government initially paid for the copper network to be built it gives them the right to control it and that it is not telstras to own. Well the truth is when the government sold off telstra they sold of the copper network with this as it was telstra property so therefore shareholders now have the legal ownership of the copper network. saying that because the government paid for it to be built before selling the network allows them to control it would be like the previous owner of someones car or house saying dont have those seat covers or dont but that garden bed there. The point is they dont own it anymore so the shouldnt have the overriding say in the management of the network.

Hairyman:

The network remains a piece of monopoly infrastructure.

If there is to be functional competition in the market then access to it will need to be regulated until other networks are built.

Sol benefitted greatly from this at his last telco in the US when the monopoly of Bell Telephone was broken up.

Telstra is just rent-seeking.

raindog:

people have said that because the government initially paid for the copper network to be built it gives them the right to control it (Um yes it's an essential part of the nations infrastructure, even your cock eyed Telstra propaganda states this) and that it is not telstras to own.(It's not lets be very clear about this!! and if Telstra thinks it can continue holding the Nation to ransom by its devious administration of a nations assets then Telstra is in for a huge dose of attitudinal correction!) Well the truth is when the government sold off telstra they sold of the copper network with this as it was telstra property so therefore shareholders now have the legal ownership of the copper network.That is debatable and likely will result in being decided in the highest courts in the land. What was not included in any Telstra sale was monopoly control of all Australian Telecommunications, that will not continue to happen. If Telstra continues it's current monopolistic behavior, control of those assets can and will be removed from their grasp.) saying that because the government paid for it to be built before selling the network allows them to control it would be like the previous owner of someones car or house saying dont have those seat covers or dont but that garden bed there.(You do realise Governments have the power to seize assets and to regulate their use?) The point is they dont own it anymore so they shouldn't have the overriding say in the management of the network.(No the point is the ACCC has the power to regulate and prosecute any Monopoly that acts against the interests of the public.
The Telstra network copper or any proposed replacement snakes through public roads and Streets across government lands with all kinds of concessions. If Telstra believes they can charge what they like to all players for use of their network, then why shouldn't a levy be applied to Telstra for its lease of space across public streets, the revenue for this levy would readily fund the roll out of new national infrastructure as desired. Now who owns ALL the assets again? hmm? )

Kevin:

well raindog you say the government has the power to seize assets and to regulate them but althought that is true the law states that they can only do that if there is fair compensation and as is obvious telsra has had no compensation.

Telstra networks are not the nations networks they are owned by telstra and their shareholders. The networks are telstras assets and thats what shareholders paid the government billions of dollars to own. If the nation sells something off they can no longer say that it is theirs. The networks are owned by telstra. Just curious but what your view on the fact that even major road links in australia are fully privately owned. Were is the regulation there. A company builds a tunnel as is the case in brisbane and they own it for the next 40 years and recieve all the tolls. There is no competition there as usually included in the deal are provisions to restrict alternative travel routes. So doesnt that mean that the company that owns the tunnell has monopoly ownership on that route which is the same as telstra have monopoly ownership on a data connection.

So many infrastructure assets in australia are privately owned. The railroads, many major roads eg brisbane sydney, many airports are privately owned, bridges etc, power companies are privately owned with monopoly control, football stadiums are privately owned all over the country, there are hardly any infrastructure assets that dont have private ownership. So yeah who does own the assets, many companies, macquarie and telstra are just two examples.

raindog:

Private companies DO NOT own roads! The do in some cases have exclusive leases for specified periods of time. And though debatable there is no Toll Road anywhere in this country that is the exclusive route to that destination? Do you see the distinction yet?

You say Telstra is entitled to just compensation and on that I agree, what is the just compensation for blackmail?

You have avoided my question completely asking if Telstra should not pay monthly lease costs for it's occupancy of public footpaths and roads. Surely you agree that if Telstra is in it's right to charge for every portion of every use of its assets that the public is also entitled to also charge Telstra for its occupancy of public space?

The other solution would be for Telstra to get on with effectively running its businesses rather than lingering on it's impossible hope of grasping an enduring monopoly.

As both a shareholder and a consumer I cannot state how much Telstra has failed me. The offer no affordable product and they have let their share values plummet by fighting lost causes rather than running an effective business. Would a monopolistic Telstra benefit it's consumers not a chance it would be back to the free range sheltered workshop type operation it had become prior to T1.

kevin:

it is your own problem that you see telstras product as unaffordable. Its your own fault you are not in a better financial situation. As for share prices i have profited majorly off telstra shares because fully privatising the company has been a great successive for the company and also telecommunications in australia. When telstra was privatised fully new managed stated that the government had underinvested in new capital infrastructure by billions of dollars, as the governmnet was just interested in profits.
As for the footpath thing it not really that big a deal, after all do you want internet or not. If you have to make some allowances to be able to be provided with internet then do what ever you have to do. If you not willing to do anything in return then the government should just build there own freaking network. The liberal government says that building a government paid for network is bad idea (which i agree with) but then at the same time they are failing to get a network built by the private sector. Wether they built it themselves or get the private sector to do the work for them i wish the government would stop all the talk and actually get the network built. With the footpath thing again, if the councils etc want the suburbs to get internet access then they need to make it appealing for companies to build networks underfootpaths, otherwise do it themselves with there own money.

justthething84:

it's not ONLY the issue of people's financial situations but it would be ridiculous for me to give in and pay such an enormous amount for Bigpond when i get the same plans off Optus for cheaper!

Optus provide serious plans with affordable prices and that's something Telstra can't match.

Optus has been answering the prayers of many Aussie internet users for years, and will continue to do so in the future. No im not an Optus employee, they've just earned my respect.

lawl

Anonymous89:

optus has the capablility to charge less because they pay below cost access prices to telstras networks. Competing companies erode telstras market base which in turn means that telstra has to charge higher prices to be able to make adequate return.

justthething84:

Justin Milne (Bigpond managing director) told me Telstra is more expensive because of the extra services it provides and because they don't outsource call centres and therefore charge for quality.

APC administrator:

They do outsource call centres -- just to an Australian company, not an offshore one.

justthething84:

that's what i meant..

raindog:

"it is your own problem that you see Telstra's product as unaffordable. Its your own fault you are not in a better financial situation." Even for you, Kevin. that is a ridiculous statement. I would have no problem paying $10 a pop for bin liners, but regardless of my ability to or not to pay it it would not make that a reasonable price.

Your arguments become so flawed they defy description, your belief that Telstra is entitled to charge anything they damn well choose yet the whole community should keel over and offer them every concession because we might want a service.

Well the community does want those services, expects to pay a fair and reasonable price for such services, expects all players to be given fair access to those services. If Australia ends up driven to parallel offerings and two fibres get run to each potential connection, which Telco do you think the public will want to use?

But we wont see a fiasco like the cable TV roll out, and if Telsta are the ones standing in the way then they will be the eventual losers! And given the groundswell of public opinion Telstra is probably already into a position from which it will be impossible to recover.

justthething84:

Another thing I hate is Telstra's claims of coverage. Mobile coverage in particular. At some stage they claimed 98% of Australia had mobile coverage. This simply doesn't match my experience.

I used to travel from Wollongong to Sydney daily by train and for 1/2 hour I could never receive a signal whilst travelling amongst the mountains. Of course there are limitations when trying to provide services in these areas (correct me if im wrong) so shouldn't Telstra be more accurate when raving about its coverage?

I'm not the only person with this complaint and the area I'm referring to isn't the only part of Australia with the coverage problem. In saying that I would still prefer affordable high speed broadband anyday over mobile coverage. Just thought I'd provide another example of what else Telstra has lied about.

Kevin:

your complaints about mobile coverage and accusations of telstra lying make me curious. You say you used to so how long ago did you travel that route and then i ask whether you had 3g coverage and if the coverage in your area had been activated. Cause obviously if you only had the lesser digital coverage then you would have problems with coverage. And if your did have 3g well then dont know particular situation so dont know what was going on there.

justthething84:

Actually it was just the other day I travelled to Sydney and the problems remain. Not only did I have these problems but so did the people I was travelling with. I don't have 3G. The coverage that Telstra raves on about is a lie because it certainly is not 98%.

I used to frequently travel to and from Sydney a few years back also. It hasn't changed one bit. Friends and family have told me of their experiences when travelling on the train to Sydney and have the exact same problem with Telstra.

You keep defending Telstra and this makes me wonder that you are an employee of Telstra.

"obviously" I would have coverage problems with the lesser digital coverage? The "lesser" do you even know what you are talking about?

Kevin:

the thing that i am saying is the reason why you are not geting coverage is because you dont have the next g network which runs on a completely different coverage to normal digital coverage. The 98% coverage is for the 3g network. So where there is 3g coverage there is not neccesarily digital coverage. You get my point. 98% is for the next g network. If you had next g coverage and you still dont get reception then you can complain about coverage. But if you cant be bothered to get 3g then dont complain about the coverage you have now. what i meant by lessor is that the digital network has inferior coverage and services compared to the 3g network. Sorry for confusion but i hope you understand me now. The reason why your coverage hasnt changes as you say is because the digital mobile coverage is unlikely to have been extented but the new 3g network has a much better chance of covering the area that you say about. And if 3g doesnt cover that area then people there probly fall into that 2%. By the way the statistics about the network have been confirmed by government authorities, phone companies (motorola) and telstra itself.

kevin:

by the way prior to t1 telstra was owned and operated by the government (dont even bother disagreeing) so therefore lack of capital investment and monopolistic behaviour is the fault of the government in charge at the time not telstra the company. As soon as they were fully private management outlined the government controlled telstra had underspent in capital by billions and now since full privatisation telstra has built the next g network, the next ip network for business and would like to build a fibre network if the was regulatory interference that just delays the process.

raindog:

So Telstra response to any previous underspending was to spend even less?

The Next G and Next IP are Telstra's crowning glory, muhahaha, Next G user approval rated below 5% and that was not a poll that was from independent market analysis. You really should stop reading those NWAT mail-outs, they're loosening your tenuous grip on reality.

The Telstra posturing and over Next G demonstrated clearly just how the organisation is not to be trusted. Only months after the roll out of Next G services Telstra jacked the prices on all those locked in Next G contracts with the sole justification of "we think its a premium network and we can charge what we damn well like". Telstra are fighting hard for this kind of leverage over ALL Australian telecommunications, the ACCC exists to thwarte such actions from greedy and irresponsible organisations.

Kevin:

people should be able to charge what they want no matter what it is. If they are still able to sell the product then charge whatever you want. People with rental houses should be able to charge whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay, same when selling a house. Same when selling any other service. If business can sell there product at higer price and it still sells then that just good business management. And yeh telstra should be able to charge whatever the hell it wants it just needs to determine the equilibrium price.

raindog:

There is getting to be a real spate of Kevins from Queensland with little grasp of economics, but I digress.

Again young Kev you skew your reply to match the NWAT theme tune.
You've just outlined profit motive. Very good! But not quite a green elephant stamp yet. Yes you can rent Nana's old house for whatever someone is willing pay, no problems with that at all, good fortune to you and your scout troop at a healthy profit.
But you see you'd not be the only one renting out the bricks and fibro, your price would have to fall in line with market prices or you'd have the problem of more keys than tenants. Simple really and that's why competition is a good thing.
Now lets put this into a more Telstra like analogy shall we If you were to control all the real estate offices, you would be subject to regulation to protect the community and the your competitor.
You would be restricted from deliberately under cutting your competitor and more importantly from charging way over the odds when there is no alternative.
Your listing costs would be monitored and your corporate behavior under scrutiny.

You skew this argument just like the well travelled NWAT deceptions. Telstra is constantly offering a retail argument for a wholesale price question and vice versa.

Competitors squeezed onto tiny margin wholesale deals, still manage to deliver retail product at a better value deal with much better customer service than Telstra could dream and within this business model they are still investing in Faster DSLAMs better backbone infrastructure, and hopefully direct fibre roll-out.

Telstra wholesale has deliberately held back ADSL speed to those fortunate enough to cabled with it. Why?
Roll-out of a NextG network that no-one needs or wants is not future investment. But hitting rural Australia up for yet another system of poor coverage mobile cannot be bad for the bottom line. But not stopping there Telstra uses terms like "Broadband Replacement" which is nothing short of fraud.
Telsra conveniently dismisses all the roll-out of backroom infrastructure being invested in by other players in the industry and that investment has and will continue to be substantial.

And all the tears and memories of the then though lifelong contracts to various government departments lost to Optus well Telstra just conveniently wipes those from memory, yet at that level the competition was at a level playing field.

NWAT is a last ditch grab at the hearts and minds of Australia for Telstra to maintain monopoly control of that one last bastion, those endpoint connections to homes and businesses. Why? Because Telstra is not has never been able to survive without a crutch? And no amount of malarkey about Broadband to Birdsville will change the facts.
Why does Telstra feel entitled to Government assistance when it has the physical access to homes and businesses it's competitors lack?
The case for assistance for the G9 proposal is quite different, as they need to bypass a Telstra network that has been been deliberately restricted.
If you wish to believe Telsta are in the right with their current behaviour that is your choice? But like it or not the public has seen Telstra and all its deception, they've suffered the pair gain lines, the deliberately throttled ADSL, the exorbitant ISDN pricing model for some old tech.
That little poll that began this thread says exactly how the public feels and whilst it may have been mostly well informed geeks that came to vote, those are the people Joe Public looks to for advice.

NWAT is a hiding to nothing and the sort of cheap stunt that will have Telstra in a position from which they will never recover.

So in short Kev you've backed a horse destined for the Vet's rifle.

justthething84:

Businesses aren't allowed to charge what they want for there plans because it is against the law. Have you even bothered to speak to the ACCC?

You don't research your claims and you make this conversation a waste of time. The law is there for a reason.

Anonymous89:

how is it less when they spend billions and want to spend even more billions. More than optus has spent, more than government controlled telstra has spent. An average price for a network is a good idea cause it means companies like optus cant just focus on more profitable metropolitan areas. But accc doesnt seem to like average pricing.

justthething84:

Why doesn't the government roll out our physical networking for the Internet across the country? If Telstra does it with its own money won't the cost of their plans rise even further and also create a monopoly for Telstra?

I don't see why the government doesn't chuck in cash and build our networks themselves.

Kevin sounds like he is a Telstra employee. He sounds like some spruiker that Telstra has asked to say positive things about them and defend their problems.

Oh another thing has anyone tried Bigpond's LAME attempt at Second Life? Only 0-5 (MAX) people at any one time visit this lame attempt compared with other lands on Second Life that average 45 at a time. If Telstra Bigpond bothered concentrating on what it's supposed to do rather then waste time on these extra services maybe we'd have better plans?

Kevin:

telling the truth im not a telstra employee and glad im not. All i am is someone who apreciates telstras side to the story. If telstra was to suddenly face bankrupcy and it shut down all its networks there where would the country be then. Apreciate what you got and work with those who have given it to you so they can give you even more (fttn).

raindog:

Telstra has given it to the community alright, they didn't even ask the community to bend over before giving it.
It is a very strange individual indeed who sees such acts as a gift.

anonymouslol111!!!1!1!!:

Tel$tra and World class, now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

testurlucktelstra:

I just moved house to a place in melbourne called heatherton.
This is not the midle or nowhere, infact all the houses are only 4 years old here.
i moved here because i was thinking, oh awesome, new place = ADSL2+....... little did i know that telstra had been lazy and to my amazement the fastest internet i can get here is "DIAL UP"!!!!!!!!

Now i dont know about some of the people here, but going from cable, downloading 80GB+ a week to dial up is like taking my wii away from me.
so i have to write a stupid letter to telstra asking them to spend "1.5 million dollars" to upgrade our internet.
so i am hoping that we can atleast get adsl befor we upgrade to gigabit internet.

thanks, l8rs

AlexCh:

Hi. I live in The Heath and have my ADSL with TPG internet. They have just finished converting Heatherton exchange to ADSL2+. However I've hit a brick wall with TPG, they are telling me I have 'pair gain' on my line. 'Pair gain' means my line is shared with someone else and TPG is refusing to connect me to faster speed. However Telstra is saying that if I had 'pair gain' I could not get any ADSL at all. From what I understand is Mirvac (the estate builder) have cut costs and did it on the cheaper side. This is where 'pair gain' is coming from. So I've now put a complaint to the Telecommunication Industry Ombudsman to investigate this further.

justthething84:

This topic is all over the news. When is Telstra going to finally realise that it's not as well liked as it thought?

Telstra are scum:

I changed over from telstra's CDMA network(which was great) to next(joke)G, and the coverage is absolutly shoking. I live 50klms north of brisbane and regularly have no coverage whatsoever and frequent dropouts. Signed up to nextG with a JasJam (which has already been back for warranty) and have had the sim card replaced which has not fixed my problems.Telescums 98% coverage is laughable. The phone will be sent back again this week, and if not fixed I'll be cancelling the contract along with my home phone and going to a Globalstar satellite service. Even my girlfriends vodafone has better coverage. I will NEVER get another telstra product again ever, and being the geek that I am will advise friends and family not to either.

igotnextganditsweet:

go to that site they have detailed coverage maps and see if you got coverage in your area. http://www.fonezone.com.au/?p=2074 if you dont have coverage well then bad luck many other people do have coverage. when next g is fully up an running which it pretty well is it will have better coverage than cdma even. Coverage is certainly much better than what it was under government controlled telstra. What do you people expeect, that the whole country has perfect coverage, get real. The next g network is already geographically the worlds largest 3g network. telstra has the best coverage of any provider (excluding satelite). If telstra were to shut down all their networks tomoro imagine the negative impact on the country. If the g9 does truly want to build the fttn network and they have got agreement from the gov then hurry and build the darn thing. Too many people like yourselfs do nothing but complaining when you do shit all yourself. Maybe telstra should just go spend its money overseas and develop there infrastucture networks instead, but even then you would complain. Telstra has customers on its current pricing and revenues have increased so really they dont care if people that dont appreciate what telstra provides and is trying to provide go to another provider with even less coverage. Stop complaining and stop getting in the way a advanced technological changes in australia.

raindog:

Now we know Rod and his happy campers over there at NWAT have had a pretty rough couple of days. And we know that they haven't had the greatest success at running a public poll nor at predetermining it's outcome.

I can only assume that this is the new NWAT vehicle for public interaction. But seriously have they thought this one through and if they have what on earth do the expect to do with the result data.

With only some personal data and a mouse click you can show in no uncertain terms that you desire broadband. Simply brilliant! We could have all been wasting our time but the depths of Telstra research have removed all doubt and are now able to show that people in different places actually want broadband. This is breakthrough stuff!

And it's no one-off by any means once the Internet enabled population of our wide brown land has shown they support high speed broadband this interactive Technology can be reused over and over again. Brilliant!!

Future uses of this breakthrough system could include:

"Do you want cheaper petrol"
"Show your support for more beer"
"Pledge your desire for Gigabyte connections"
"We believe torch batteries should last longer"

Rod and the team you should feel very proud because if I'm not mistaken yours is the very first website in Australia and likely the world to feature an "Interactive Pictorial Bleeding Obvious Indicator"

Anonymousasfasfas:

I happen to know guys at the web design company that built the nowwearetalking website (www.immersive.com.au) and they are admitting (not officially) that the poll was
fraudulently altered... they didn't put appropriate checks in the code to stop a 'bot from posting votes... and so someone did it! Don't blame Telstra for a dodgy supplier's work!

TelstraSucks:

Don't blame Telstra for a dodgy supplier's work!

That's because we can blame Telstra for dodgy service, prices and generally ripping off 99.98% of the Australian population.

Telstra need to realise nobody cares and rather than selling off assets, sell the entire company, give the employees better jobs and stop spin-doctoring because it ain't gonna work.