Why Apple is a joke in the business world

Angus Kidman
24 November 2009, 1:44 PM


Employees might like iPhones, but Gartner says Apple doesn't have a clue how to do computers for business at anything like a reasonable price.


In a debate at the Gartner Symposium in Sydney, Nick Jones argued the case that Apple would never be a viable enterprise technology provider, while his fellow analyst Robin Simpson took the case for Apple's role in business. However, despite the fact that a high percentage of the audience were iPhone-toting Apple lovers, it was Jones who made the more forceful argument.



"Apple's management tools are a joke," Jones said. "Apple decides which applications you get and if they don't like an application, you don't get it. There's lots of applications Apple don't like which could be very useful to you. As an enterprise platform, it's a joke."

"There's no way you can call Apple an enterprise vendor. The bare minimum is not enough for enterprises."

Jones pointed to the fact that the iPhone's Exchange synchronisation tells Exchange it offers encryption when it actually doesn't as indicative of Apple's dismissive attitude towards business IT in general. "They don't care about lying to you because encryption doesn't matter to consumers."

Cost is a major consideration that businesses can't ignore, he added. "It's expensive. This is a device that gobbles data faster than a shark in a feeding frenzy. You are being royally ripped off. iPhone is basically a device for price-insensitive fashion victims."

Power usage was another weak point for the iPhone. "You've got a phone you have to charge up every day. Charging up the phone every day is pretty retro."

Jones argued that despite the checking system, security flaws were likely to emerge on the iPhone. "Over the next few years, things like the App Store are going to be a rich source of security problems in the enterprise."

Jones also suggested that Apple would be highly resistant to the emerging HTML 5 standard, which might make it possible to deliver complicated applications via the iPhone browser without enduring Apple's infamous application approval process. "I bet you they cripple HTML 5 as well," he said. "I do not believe Steve Jobs' piratical view wants apps loaded into the browser outside Steve Jobs' control, and that's what HTML 5 gives you."

As for Macs, Jones suggested that current market share made it clear there wasn't any real business case for Apple to go after enterprise users. "You have to think the numbers tell the story. About 1% of enterprise PCs are Macs; this is a teeny part of Apple's business. It doesn't make any economic sense for Steve Jobs to invest in enterprise support in any serious way."

The biggest problem with Macs as business PCs was the total cost of ownership, Jones said. "If you start using Macs, you start having to play silly games like supporting two OSes. If you look at our numbers, it costs you 58% more to have a Mac in your company than to have a PC in your company. The TCO is much higher. What is the business case for paying 58% more for a platform if you're not going to get 58% more work?"

Simpson argued that such metrics were likely to change as web-based applications became more commonplace and that in such an environment, Macs might easily be a useful adjunct outside of their traditional design and education strongholds. "My view is that Apple's done just enough, the bare minimum, to satisfy enterprise compatibility and manageability for a significant class of users. Apple has done enough to put itself into the appliance category. That class of users -- people who can use an appliance that does one job --is only going to grow."

Simpson also suggested that Mac users were likely to have lower support costs, though Jones wasn't having a bar of it. "Cisco tell me their biggest internal wiki is the Mac self-support wiki. If it was so easy to use a Mac, why would they need such a huge self-support wiki? And self-support means you're still paying the cost, just in a different area."

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plutonium210 (User):

Apple has never had 'business' as its target.
Its target has always been publishing, graphics, media and entertainment. And those it does very well, thank you very much.

24 November 2009, 2:22 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Regular user):

Totally agree. The enterprise desktop is not where Macs are aimed, and enterprise phone fleets is not what the iphone was created for.

I have spent time looking at integrating Macs into a Samba based network with primarily Windows XP clients. Both times it was a superb fail, not so much because it didn't support authenticating or mapping data, but because it was very difficult to keep things controlled so users couldn't wreck the thing.

24 November 2009, 3:26 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

apt.pupil (User):

Quoting Tin:
superb fail



go the oxymoron!!!


24 November 2009, 4:10 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting plutonium210:
Apple has never had 'business' as its target.

read "Apple has never grasped how to target business".


Quoting plutonium210:
Its target has always been publishing, graphics, media and entertainment. And those it does very well,

Indded it does. The problem for Apple is that once the could claim it did those better. This is no longer the true, while Apple still does an excellant job PC (or more importantly PC applications) has well and truely caught up.

Apple in a business environment is mostly about pleasing a few ponytails rather than any need or quest for excellence. An all Apple workplace is very rare, ones where the back-end heavy lifting is also exclusively Apple are probably now extinct.


24 November 2009, 4:05 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

sixmemos (New user):

One more market to add to the list: research, science and engineering.

I agree with Tin that it is often difficult to integrate Macs into workplaces that have been PC-dominated for years. But the UNIX underpinnings of OS X make Macs a joy to work with, in concert with Linux servers and high performance clusters.

I don't think that Apple is necessarily *targeting* this, but in computer circles, this sector has disproportionate mindshare relative to its marketshare.

25 November 2009, 9:40 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Phormic (New user):

Gartner doesn't exactly have the best record when commenting on Apple and their motives.

24 November 2009, 4:51 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Phormic:
Business world?

Yeah you know the one where enterprise happens.


Quoting Phormic:
Razor thin margins

Sure would be if you were trying to compete in an open market with Apple gear.


Quoting Phormic:
A glacial uptake of new technology

Glacial. Sure business is all still running spirit duplicators, and NCR machines. If we extract your exagerations we could re-word that as "business is conservative enough to only adopt proven technology". Gee i wonder why that is? Wonder what happened to that IT that suggested Newton was the must-have next big thing and committed the entire budget to it?


Quoting Phormic:
Integration with networks built upon proprietary "technologies"

Now your just being funny! Appletalk as an open platform. LOL.



Quoting Phormic:
for years by a competitor ensuring that enterprise keep coming back to them.

Now while the predominant software technology of PC may be proprietary, (and Apple isn't?) the hardware platform of PC is essentially open. How many vendor choices does enterprise have to choose from for Apple hardware?


Quoting Phormic:
I wonder why Apple treats that market with such disdain?

Or why business IT departments treat Apple with disdain? Hmm?


24 November 2009, 5:13 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Phormic (New user):

The enterprise eh? So let's see what it offers Apple. Razor thin margins. A glacial uptake of new technology. A dilution of their premium brand image and a forced integration with proprietary "technologies" built upon for years by a competitor, ensuring IT managers will always go back to them.

I wonder why Apple have consistently ignored the enterprise?

24 November 2009, 4:58 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Phormic:
A dilution of their premium brand image and a forced integration with proprietary "technologies" built upon for years by a competitor, ensuring IT managers will always go back to them.

Explain how if you will why IT managers would always go back to a PC solution if Apple could do everything better and participate fully in a shared environment? Better at 3 times the price does not equate to better at all. 3 times the price and unable to fully participate is so far away from better it is laughable.


Quoting Phormic:
I wonder why Apple have consistently ignored the enterprise?

Same reason wonder-duster and super-chamois salesmen will always target mug punters by preference.


24 November 2009, 5:19 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Phormic (New user):

Heavens. Who rattled Raindog's cage?

This is a fascinating article in that it manages to be completely right and utterly wrong at the same time, which is quite an achievement. You could change the title to "Why BMW is a joke in the Taxi Cab world". Technically it's right but it also completely and utterly misses the point.

The fact is that Apple...doesn't...care...about...the...enterprise. This sticks in the craw of guys like Raindog who feel that Apple should grovel to them on bended knee because it is he (or guys like him) that are the gatekeepers to enterprise where you too can sell thousands of boxes to run Word for a profit of "next to stuff all", a unit. If you feel this is arrogance, fine but ask Michael Dell how his enterprise orientated business is coming along. Dell's numbers were absolutely stellar in the last quarter weren't they?

Gartner has been Microsoft's paid mouthpiece for the better part of a decade. During that time they have championed every new piece of technology released by Redmond and trashed their competitors. We can all remember them confidently predicting how WinMo 5 will take over the world in 2005.

Look how well that prediction turned out.

24 November 2009, 6:19 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Phormic:
Heavens. Who rattled Raindog's cage?

pointless insult ignored.



Quoting Phormic:
"Why BMW is a joke in the Taxi Cab world".

That's it lets roll out a distant analogy, anything to help a dying argument.


Quoting Phormic:
The fact is that Apple...doesn't...care...about...the...enterprise.

A fact which will ensure Apple remains a perenial bit player. Ignoring a huge and influentual section of the marketplace.


Quoting Phormic:
This sticks in the craw of guys like Raindog who feel that Apple should grovel to them on bended knee

No I don't in fact apart from loudmouths in forums and a few customers in advertising the mention of Apple is mostly an irrelevance. And that's what has your craw so stuck.


Quoting Phormic:
to run Word for a profit

As opposed to selling boxes to tools as fashion accessories and coctail bar brag icons.

Quoting Phormic:
If you feel this is arrogance

I know it is arrogance, what's more I know it is fanboy arrogance.
Only the most ardent fanboy could equate a bad quarter for Dell as the begginning of the Mac universe.


Quoting Phormic:
Gartner has been Microsoft's paid mouthpiece for the better part of a decade.

All done with vague analogies, and random comparisons, now it's time for conspiracy theories, right?


Quoting Phormic:
During that time they have championed every new piece of technology released by Redmond and trashed their competitors.

And this has what exactly to do with Apples inability to crack the enterprise market?



Quoting Phormic:
We can all remember them confidently predicting how WinMo 5 will take over the world in 2005.

Yeah and we can all remember a knob in black pyjamas heralding Newton as the next big thing. That was a good call too. Right?


Quoting Phormic:
Look how well that prediction turned out.

What is even funnier is Apple are all set to give it another run. :)


24 November 2009, 6:38 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Phormic (New user):

Yeah and we can all remember a knob in black pyjamas heralding Newton as the next big thing. That was a good call too. Right?

Oops. That sound you hear is your credibility crashing down around your ears. History not your strong point?

Anyway, keep knocking those straw men down champ! ;-)

24 November 2009, 7:00 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Phormic:
History not your strong point?

Ok I'm up for a giggle. You tell us of the history of the runaway success in the home and enterprise that newton became. Your time starts now. :)


24 November 2009, 7:05 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Phormic (New user):

Oh dear. Whoosh...

I referring to your "knob in black pyjamas" comment (very droll too).

Jobs wasn't around then dopey. Unless John Sculley also had a penchant for black turtlenecks.

24 November 2009, 7:14 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Phormic:
Jobs wasn't around then

Was I being knob specific? You saw me referring to Jobs, where exactly? All Apple launches are associated with some kind of dubious fashion. I'm told it's policy there.

Encyclopedic knowledge of times and dates of Apple employees is so sad, still I guess there isn't much choice for trainspotters on the northern beaches.




24 November 2009, 7:39 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

gankul (New user):

Hey,

Leave us northern beaches out of it.

Plus, everyone know we have no trains. :p

25 November 2009, 9:38 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Ted Landrey (New user):

Apple is only 36 years old, check back in 30 years and Apple will be the dominant platform in business.

Apple has this all mapped out.

24 November 2009, 7:25 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Ted Landrey:
Apple is only 36 years old

PC is 28yo, you sure you want to head on with this obscure line Ted?



Quoting Ted Landrey:
check back in 30 years

30 years eh, not 29, not 31, not 14, exactly 30 your one of them mystics, right Ted?


Quoting Ted Landrey:
Apple has this all mapped out

All in the crytals huh? :)


24 November 2009, 7:46 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Phormic (New user):

"Jones also suggested that Apple would be highly resistant to the emerging HTML 5 standard, which might make it possible to deliver complicated applications via the iPhone browser without enduring Apple's infamous application approval process. "I bet you they cripple HTML 5 as well," he said. "I do not believe Steve Jobs' piratical view wants apps loaded into the browser outside Steve Jobs' control, and that's what HTML 5 gives you."

This paragraph is just so incredibly wrong, it's unbelievable. The iPhone ALREADY supports HTML 5. Just use any of the Google iPhone apps. Apple ALREADY tried to introduce web applications on the iPhone (outside of the tyrannical, baby eating iron fist of dictator Steve Jobs) before the App Store launch but this was howled down by an army of developers who wanted native apps.

The thing is, this is common knowledge. Gartner probably already know this. Comments like "price-insensitive fashion victims" also show a distinct lack of credibility. This is factless, agenda driven scare mongering by Gartner...again.

24 November 2009, 8:22 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Phormic:
This paragraph is just so incredibly wrong, it's unbelievable. The iPhone ALREADY supports HTML 5.

Completely? With full compliance?


Quoting Phormic:
Apple ALREADY tried to introduce web applications on the iPhone [pointless and ranting nonsense deleted here] before the App Store launch but this was howled down by an army of developers who wanted native apps.

It matters little whether it was Jobs or some other part of the organisation/community. Aversion to accepted international standards is simply a guarantee that a product or range of products remain a joke to business. There are enough problems with compatability now without chasing more.


Quoting Phormic:
The thing is, this is common knowledge.

Oh really?


Quoting Phormic:
Gartner probably already know this.

They do. Your good at second quessing aren't you?


Quoting Phormic:
Comments like "price-insensitive fashion victims" also show a distinct lack of credibility.

Not really they are immediately identifiable, just a single mention of black pyjamas and you had a fair approximation of who was being spoken about. Do you see the black skivy as a good look? You prior rant about margins has pretty much confirmed you agree that Apple holds little no price margin. So where was did that phrase lack cred?


Quoting Phormic:
This is factless, agenda driven scare mongering by Gartner.

No the black pyjams line was one of mine not Gartner's. Who is scare mongering? Are the (few) Apple faithful being forced to hide in cupboards or disguise their Macs as Linux boxes? In the wash-up it was simply a statement of the obvious. Macs, at this time, do remain a joke to the business world, show me the credible examples of where this is not the case. If your not sure do a quick count in your own workplace, it'll go part way to helping you understand the obvious.


25 November 2009, 8:57 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Craig Tobias (New user):

I would like to know who at Cisco told you the largest wiki is the MAC support wiki. Cisco has 100,000+ employees if you include contract workers. I’m sure you can find some person somewhere at Cisco to tell you anything. I designed and implemented many of Cisco's Web 2.0 solutions at Cisco before I left in early 2009. The Self-Support Wiki at Cisco is large but not even in the top10 ten when it comes to the largest wikis at Cisco.

Besides let's put this into context. Remember Cisco is designing and developing new network equipment and protocols. Much of the stuff in the self-support wiki is how to connect at MAC using a given protocol or how to connect to some odd type of interface. All things one has to do for the development of network equipment but things few would have to do in a standard enterprise environment.

Many of the engineers at Cisco like using the MAC because they have more control over the OS and having the ability to script in the OS allows them much greater flexibility when it comes to testing and development. I would consider the self-support wiki a success for Web 2.0 platforms and collaboration and not a negative against MAC.

Craig Tobias


25 November 2009, 9:27 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Zig (New user):

Agree 100% Apple is a joke, and not just in the business world.
Take personal productivity & the iPhone:
- No task management functionality whatsoever is included in iPhone's native apps. So you have to buy an app from the iStore only to find that it is almost impossible to sync your tasks with Outlook on your PC without a degree in IT.
This make a mockery of the overhyped supposed user friendliness of the iPhone.
- want to save a couple of SMS messages & delete the rest like you can on any Nokia? - Forget it, Steve Jobs wont let you.

The iPhone is just a toy for kids and morons who dont have anything productive to do.

Steve Jobs has decided we dont need to be efficient in either our business nor personal lives.

27 November 2009, 12:50 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

computAguru (New user):

Mac was never meant for business. It will never work for business. Very strict in what it allows. Mac is more for the mainstream. If it where not for the price, I suspect that it would easily over take windows systems. For the business market, however, mac does not have a chance. Windows is way more moldable than mac. Mac functionality versus pc is a joke. Pc can do more and supports more. But for the majority of people mac should be the choice since they do not know what pc can do and it is easily manipulated (thus the numerous viruses). Windows equals business mac equals pc (when there was very limited internet use aka 1990s to the early 2000s windows was the business and the pc product of choice). Future equals webos, clouds, and universal pcs for the general public but not for the business environment (sorry mac will either go with the trend or will be swallowed up when this occurs). As for the iphone, I suspect it days are numbered. True multitasking (iphone can not do), support for flash (iphone can not do), open source (iphone can not do). My call is android or webos with webos being the better option since android system is built more like the winmo environment. Webos is more a true web os and it reminds me of the eye os. My future call is that the phone transitioned from regular phone to cellular phone to smart phones to smart net phones. The only one that has the potential to be a smart net phone is the webos palm system. It will support flash, it can multitask, it can multitask flash since it is a better program than android, and it is open source. It allows multitouch. It is ergonomically friendly but its build quality could be slightly better.
For HTML 5, I do not suspect that apple will support it 100% on the iphone. First because it is a huge point of attack by hackers since there is not way to block the code since the file is directly injected in the html code whereas the current setup you can deny plugins. HTML 5 sounds good but it is a huge mistake. The only reason that I suspect apple is on the html 5 code is to make adobe scared about its future with flash since you would no longer need flash with html5. Apple will not have full support of html 5 on the iphone because it will allow you to circumvent its app catalog. Yea that is not going to happen. So all said apple immediate future is great but I am unsure what the forward future holds for mac. If you say that I hate mac then you should know that I own a mac mini, mbp and 2 unibody macbooks. I also started with vic 20 and transitioned through c64 and 286 up to the intel/amd currents and atoms. So I am not a newbie.

28 November 2009, 11:52 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

computAguru (New user):

Mac was never meant for business. It will never work for business. Very strict in what it allows. Mac is more for the mainstream. If it where not for the price, I suspect that it would easily over take windows systems. For the business market, however, mac does not have a chance. Windows is way more moldable than mac. Mac functionality versus pc is a joke. Pc can do more and supports more. But for the majority of people mac should be the choice since they do not know what pc can do and it is easily manipulated (thus the numerous viruses). Windows equals business mac equals pc (when there was very limited internet use aka 1990s to the early 2000s windows was the business and the pc product of choice). Future equals webos, clouds, and universal pcs for the general public but not for the business environment (sorry mac will either go with the trend or will be swallowed up when this occurs). As for the iphone, I suspect it days are numbered. True multitasking (iphone can not do), support for flash (iphone can not do), open source (iphone can not do). My call is android or webos with webos being the better option since android system is built more like the winmo environment. Webos is more a true web os and it reminds me of the eye os. My future call is that the phone transitioned from regular phone to cellular phone to smart phones to smart net phones. The only one that has the potential to be a smart net phone is the webos palm system. It will support flash, it can multitask, it can multitask flash since it is a better program than android, and it is open source. It allows multitouch. It is ergonomically friendly but its build quality could be slightly better.
For HTML 5, I do not suspect that apple will support it 100% on the iphone. First because it is a huge point of attack by hackers since there is not way to block the code since the file is directly injected in the html code whereas the current setup you can deny plugins. HTML 5 sounds good but it is a huge mistake. The only reason that I suspect apple is on the html 5 code is to make adobe scared about its future with flash since you would no longer need flash with html5. Apple will not have full support of html 5 on the iphone because it will allow you to circumvent its app catalog. Yea that is not going to happen. So all said apple immediate future is great but I am unsure what the forward future holds for mac. If you say that I hate mac then you should know that I own a mac mini, mbp and 2 unibody macbooks. I also started with vic 20 and transitioned through c64 and 286 up to the intel/amd currents and atoms. So I am not a newbie.

28 November 2009, 11:56 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Watlington (New user):

Hey Raindog, a question, if I may... you complained about Apple not supporting international standards, and yet when Phormic quoted a big long list of the international standards the Mac and iPhone support (in some cases to a greater extent than Microsoft products support them, e.g. Safari versus IE), you completely ignored it. You made no comment about it at all, no "Okay, you got me, I was wrong about Apple's support for international standards". Why was that?

30 November 2009, 10:35 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Watlington:
Hey Raindog, a question, if I may...

you may indeed


Quoting Watlington:
you complained about Apple not supporting international standards,

In a word yes. Too greater reliance on proprietory hardware from a one vendor source, that and a general inflexibility in a distributed and vendor free network. And while an all Apple solution might sound like a solution it wont cut it for price, software support or scalability.


Quoting Watlington:
and yet when Phormic quoted a big long list of the international standards the Mac and iPhone support

like a laundry list wasn't it. sane folks were nodding off and other were losing their will to live. As execiting as a compatability list may be, it still remained a selective list that left out many of the most common stumbling blocks.


Quoting Watlington:
in some cases to a greater extent than Microsoft products

Wouldn't be hard, especially hen you also eliminate all the standards MS mangled to suit themselves.


Quoting Watlington:
you completely ignored it

Yeah I did, didn't I. I tend to do that to brand crusaders. Life is short after all.


Quoting Watlington:
You made no comment about it at all

I have now, though. So that's your question answered.


Quoting Watlington:
"Okay, you got me, I was wrong about Apple's support for international standards". Why was that?

Because they don't play nice in a mixed crowd, simple as. Add the price premium and well you get the idea about suitability in a commercial environment.
As for iPhone for road warriors, nah don't think so.
All those mini apps to work out how much lost productivity in the working day is due to running iPhone apps, may be the cool thing to have, but they dont pay the bills.
I don't dislike Apple stuff, but i think the topic still stands, and while the previously mentioned poster may see real growth in Apple uptake after surveying results from his own cubicle, this is not really a good poll of any global trends.
Your question has been posed in a much more concilliatory manner and as such, it was worth a reply.


30 November 2009, 11:15 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Watlington (New user):

Quoting Raindog:
As execiting as a compatability list may be, it still remained a selective list that left out many of the most common stumbling blocks.

But I think that if you were to be honest, you would admit that you weren't aware of just how many international standards Apple supports. That's what your silence on the subject communicated to me, anyway. I realise you've tried to do a bit of face-saving with your "sane folks were nodding off" schtick, but it really isn't a sign of weakness to admit when you don't know something and to thank someone else for filling a gap in your knowledge - such as you not knowing that Apple already offers full HTML5 compliance.

But anyway, can you list some of the international standards that Apple doesn't support that cause common stumbling blocks? I would be interested to know what they are.

01 December 2009, 12:56 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting Watlington:
But I think that if you were to be honest, you would admit that you weren't aware of just how many international standards Apple supports.

I think you haven't the slightest clue what I think or know. How's that for honest!!!


Quoting Watlington:
That's what your silence on the subject communicated to me, anyway.

You are free to get the wrong end of your pineapple.


Quoting Watlington:
I realise you've tried to do a bit of face-saving with your

And your quite free to confuse your realisation while your having trouble interpreting......

Quoting Watlington:
but it really isn't a sign of weakness to admit when you don't know something

well not know lots more than me your obviously have some expertise in the matter.


Quoting Watlington:
and to thank someone else for filling a gap in your knowledge

If this was to by some faint chance happen in this thread I'd be the first to offer thanks, but back here in reality land there isn't much chance of learning anything from the legion of Apple inspired mind readers and second guessers.


Quoting Watlington:
such as you not knowing that

You really are having trouble taking the clues aren't you?


Quoting Watlington:
But anyway, can you list

Of course I can. The more correct question is will I do it for your benefit. The answer to that one may offend.


Quoting Watlington:
I would be interested to know what they are.

Tell you what, find an nearby IT department and suggest to them that they too are wrong and that they should listen to you and go Apple forth-with. The answers are there waiting for you.

Better still since you've had such a good 2nd guessing my thoughts, why don't you concont some random answers you can claim are mine too. Go on. You know you want to.

Night!

01 December 2009, 1:15 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

sixmemos (New user):

It's too bad some people can't see fit to respond to a simple, civil, and substantive question. But, sadly, forums get overpopulated with people who argue this way. What's too bad is that they lack the social awareness to see how badly this style of "argument" (sneer, insinuate, and insult) makes them look.

So, since it has not been refuted, we are agreed that while Apple plays its development cards quite close to its chest, the actual product that we are arguing about -- the iPhone -- is quite standards-compliant.

Cheerio.

01 December 2009, 1:25 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

[duplicate]

01 December 2009, 9:45 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

johnsmith (New user):

The only brand crusader that I can see on this forum is you. Of course your crusade seems to involve fire and pitchforks for anything vaguely related to Mac. Most of the angry tirades you have been giving seem to be not much more than a bunch of pent up bile littered with ad hominem, red herrings, hyperbolas and other forms of mangled logic. While I am not a Mac supporter myself the only thing worse than a Mac fan boy is an anti-Mac crusader. I don't understand why you even bother to read Mac related posts as it is obvious that you have already made up your mind on the subject and it doesn’t look like it can be much good for your blood pressure.

28 January 2010, 8:05 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting johnsmith:
I don't understand why you even bother to read related posts

Your inability to understand is your concern and not something that others should be burdened with, that said, it's worth the effort to pen replies that months later will infuriate random nobodies who wish to step up to the plate. :)




28 January 2010, 8:15 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

K (User):

There hasn't been any mention in this article on application availability and support - it seems to refer mostly to back office shenanigans like network support and interoperability. When it comes down to small business environments it boils down to apps. Accounting software? EFTPOS terminal integration? Inventory tracking? Database? You can do most of it on Mac but it involves a lot more effort in setting up and maintaining.

I use a Mac for personal computing, but the only way to use it productively in my work environment was either VPN to remote server or use Windows in a virtual machine.

01 December 2009, 12:57 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Raindog (User):

Quoting K:
There hasn't been any mention in this article on application availability and support - it seems to refer mostly to back office shenanigans like network support and interoperability.

All those factors are part of the problem.




Quoting K:
When it comes down to small business environments it boils down to apps. Accounting software? EFTPOS terminal integration? Inventory tracking? Database?

Sure does, and while there are no reasons why many of the common ones cannot be ported to MAC or other platforms the reality is they are not.
You can have use any number of better financial packages than the common ones but if your accountant is a paid up member of the MYOB or Quickbooks traps you have to change accountant or prepare for a world of hassle.


Quoting K:
but the only way to use it productively in my work environment was either VPN to remote server or use Windows in a virtual machine.

I'd suggest that neither of those are productive solutions. It would do the marketplace a big favour if Apple had more to offer in these areas, but the simple reality is that at this time it does not.


01 December 2009, 1:07 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

K (User):

Quoting Raindog:
while there are no reasons why many of the common ones cannot be ported to MAC or other platforms the reality is they are not.

So true, the Mac app library is very limited when it comes to business-focused software beyond the ubiquitous 'office' suites. Not everyone wants to use Filemaker or the two Mac flavours of MYOB!

I should have said "You can do SOME of it on Mac, and what you can do involves a lot more effort in setting up and maintaining."

01 December 2009, 1:23 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Maltzy (New user):

Funny, seeing as how at Apple, they have $28 billion in cash on hand with no debt. They are doing something right.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/company-news/first-droid-then-admob-google-goes-for-apples-jugular-in-mobi/19229763/

last paragraph

31 December 2009, 6:34 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

factopo.com (New user):

Are you kidding? As as a student in business school, just about to graduate, I can tell you that Apple is far from a joke. They're pretty much the pinnacle of business achievements, actually. Every week I hear from one professor or another "OMG Apple has the best model ever! How did they figure out they could have such a hip and cool and trendy image and charge such a premium price? Brilliant! And their retail store model?? There is no better! It's been successful beyond anyone's wildest expectations!"
I'm not being sarcastic. I would agree, anyway. Their products may be silly from an objective standpoint, but they sure as hell made a ton of money. And isn't that the point in business?

15 January 2010, 1:35 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

factopo.com (New user):

Are you kidding? As as a student in business school, just about to graduate, I can tell you that Apple is far from a joke. They're pretty much the pinnacle of business achievements, actually. Every week I hear from one professor or another "OMG Apple has the best model ever! How did they figure out they could have such a hip and cool and trendy image and charge such a premium price? Brilliant! And their retail store model?? There is no better! It's been successful beyond anyone's wildest expectations!"
I'm not being sarcastic. I would agree, anyway. Their products may be silly from an objective standpoint, but they sure as hell made a ton of money. And isn't that the point in business?

15 January 2010, 1:37 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Regular user):

Summary of above comment: Apple fanboi doesn't read articles.

The article is about why Apple products are not chosen for business use, not anything about the Apple business model.

15 January 2010, 6:21 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

ibgarrett (New user):

Wow - talk about missing the mark when it comes to making a valid point. Can anyone tell me how long the battery life is for other smart phones? I bet it's within the same time frame as the iPhones. And his TCO analysis is WAY off. There's a TON of other software that has to be purchased to merely manage a Windows system well. There's many TCO papers out there that cover the differences between Macs and PC's, and it clearly shows the Macs are totally on-par of their Windows counter parts.

My argument for why Apple needs a change in the Enterprise marketplace boils down to support and consistency between what their marketing dept says and what is reality from an Enterprise connection. I've been burned many times because, even though it's sold as a solution to a problem, it either is half-baked, or doesn't work at all. THAT is the reason why Apple is struggling w/ their Enterprise market.

They also don't share any information about product time-lines for planning purposes. It's extremely difficult for someone to write up a proposal on getting a product, when in 6 months, the writer knows that something will change (replaced, discontinued, etc.) but they just don't know what. At least with some of the name-brand PC manufactures I could call up an account manager and get a good idea of future product announcements.

Would I love to see more Macs in the Enterprise? Yup, you bet! But something fundamentally has to change internally at Apple for this to work. Up until now, anytime they make the necessary changes, it's purely on a cosmetic level, and it never sticks.

26 January 2010, 4:58 AM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

JoblessPunk (New user):

This is a retarded article. You are trying to compare Apples to Oranges and at the same time asking an Apple to BE an Orange. It never will be, but sometimes an Apple tastes better than an Orange.

29 April 2010, 9:12 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

JoblessPunk (New user):

double post - sorry.

29 April 2010, 9:13 PM (2 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Chris123124 (New user):

I own a iphone 3g, i wish i rather bought an android phone -.- apple products is only good for browsing webpages without flash and java, everything else is shiiiat!.

01 August 2010, 1:02 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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