Bring out your dead
Bring out yer dead... (PowerPC-based Macs)

Why OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard should leave PowerPC in the cold

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Seamus Byrne03 July 2008, 1:53 PM

If Snow Leopard is all about a bedrock for the future of computing, why do so many people still call for their legacy hardware to be supported?


Snow Leopard is on its way, and before even the first feature was announced it seemed like the loudest voices were those demanding ongoing support for their PowerPC computers. But why should their wish come true?

The focus of Snow Leopard is on core upgrades, not shiny new features. A bedrock focused update that delivers a streamlined, enhanced OS X. Stability. Efficiency. A “new generation of core technologies.”

All this is about raising the floor on the entire system. Multi-core optimisation, support for 16TB RAM (yes, Terabytes), and a language to allow developers to tap the power of the graphics processor are just a few of the key upgrades. But you can’t lift the floor and let people walk around where the floor used to be all at the same time. Not without leaving holes for a potential rising damp problem further down the track.

So why do we hear the same ‘what about us’ grumblings from the cheap seats? There’s never been any doubt the day would come when this hardware was officially yesterday’s news. While some may wish for the good old times of 5+ years of software upgrade support for their Macs, three years plus ongoing updates (just as Tiger has received updates post-Leopard) is still a good deal when considered in the context of such a major change in hardware.

The shift to Intel coincided with the greatest leap in processing power this decade, as Core Duo chips left the competition far behind. Back in 2006, video editing tests at Creative Mac showed a Core Duo MacBook (entry level, not a MacBook Pro) was directly comparable to Dual G5 desktops of the day.

Accept it, folks. You're on old hardware, the clock is ticking... and Apple isn't Microsoft with its eternal legacy support at the expense of OS advancement. If you must run the latest OS, you can pick up a very cheap Intel Mac second hand that will make those G5s feel molasses slow.

Laggards, you have two options: suck it up and join the future, or leave the rest of us to enjoy the spoils of progress. Cutting legacy support should be applauded and embraced, lest we watch the latest hardware be hamstrung just to push some old square pegs into the newest of round holes.

(And let the record show, I speak as one who still keeps one of the best Mac notebooks Apple ever made, a 1GHz PowerBook G4 (12-inch), in regular operation. It’s still running Tiger, the last OS X it will ever run — and it is very happy that way.)


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CBR1100XX (Regular user):

Come on Linux Fanboys !

I'm waiting for the deluge of ... "Give Ubuntu a try !" ;)

03 July 2008, 2:02 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Hemma (User):

Well, if your God doesn't love you anymore, what are you going to do?

04 July 2008, 2:30 PM (12 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tin (Regular user):

Yep. And also keep an eye out for Ubuntu based distros that look and feel like MacOSX :p

On a more serious note, if you really want to continue using aging hardware, then moving to a slimmer OS is a requirement. That usually means a Linux or BSD distro with a simple light GUI (or moving the box into a role that doesn't need a GUI, like a file server)

05 July 2008, 9:38 AM (12 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

agami (User):

The writing was on the wall (the projection screen behind Jobs) when they announced the move to intel. I wasn't happy about it then and as I type this on my 15" PowerBook G4 1.6GHz running Leopard I'm not happy about it now. I also have a PowerMac G3 (decommissioned) , I'm running Tiger Server on a G4 Cube, and I also have a PowerMac G5. It was fun while it lasted and it does feel like a waist of perfectly capable hardware.

I maintain that the choice to move to intel was a poor one but it's of no consequence. I downloaded OpenSuSE 11 PPC last week as the Cube isn't up to the Leopard Server spec. Might get another year or two out of it.

03 July 2008, 2:46 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Atopcat (New user):

What does the WAIST of perfectly capable hardware feel like??? Soft? Firm? Flabby? The appropriate word is WASTE. Do not always rely on spell check.

07 July 2008, 3:42 AM (12 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

agami (User):

Oops.

07 July 2008, 11:49 AM (12 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Danny Gorog (APC staff):

Spot on.

03 July 2008, 4:46 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

McBanjo (User):

Leopard has been proven to run well on hardware 7 years old. Can't say the same for Windows Vista (or XP).

Seriously, if your on a PowerPC processor, you obviously have no desire for the upgrades in Snow Leopard. So consider it as if Apple never announced a new OS, and you'll only be missing out on the next revision.

Moving to Intel has been a massive success for Apple. It's switched Windows users, boosting sales enormously and lifted Apple out of the hell hole that was the 90s. Intel is a much larger microprocessor manufacturer, with better products, it's a win-win. I disagree in any way that suggests it was a poor choice to move.

It's not as if your computer will cease to function as it was, but as with all things, it just won't have new fancy stuff. Leopard will still be supported. I suppose you now want to complain about how your Commodores don't play movies. "But it's such a waste of perfectly capable hardware."


03 July 2008, 6:03 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

agami (User):

The Commodore analogy is going a bit far.

Here's a scenario; In the middle of 2010 Apple decides to release Safari 4.5 with some cool new support for SproutCore 3 and they release it as an intel only binary. Even if we left out the G4s there are many G5 iMacs and PowerMacs that would have no issue running several instances of a web browser, though the perfectly capable hardware is left out because it makes business sense to have a single code stream.

It doesn't bother me when some very demanding piece of software i.e. Motion, Final Cut Studio is no longer supported on older hardware as it's not up to the task. What does get my goat is when software 'can' run fine but somebody somewhere decided that I should upgrade unnecessarily, as was the case with iMovie '08, which is running fine on my PowerBook G4 by the way.

03 July 2008, 7:52 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

William151515 (User):

Quoting McBanjo:
Leopard has been proven to run well on hardware 7 years old. Can't say the same for Windows Vista (or XP).

(xp can run decently on a 300mhz cpu 19mb of ram)

thats so funny, my Apple ibook G3 clamshell se is not even supported for leopard, and its 7 years old cant even run tiger decently, have to run panther, so that is false, even my dads old powerbook can't run leopard decently, and thats like 3-4 years old,
you need a modern intel mac to run leopard decently,

i am a windows user (vista), and a happy one at that, you can't expect current software to run well on old hardware, its the way of the tech world,
but that doesn't mean that your old hardware is useless, you can still use it, you just have to keep to the old technology if that bothers you. buy a new computer and move on


even you mac users need to upgrade eventually,
but i do not hate mac users (just the fanboys) or linux operating systems



04 July 2008, 7:50 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

shrike (User):

Well said. This is something that sets Apple apart from Microsoft, and it will help to cement Apple as the future of computing

03 July 2008, 6:57 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Ahmed (New user):

I think you're missing the point. The whole reason for 10.6, as you mentioned yourself, is stability and efficiency. The new features behind the scenes do look good but if Stability and Efficiency are the core of this release then surely it's perfect for old hardware.

It'll also be a perfect time to say:

Now that we've given the PPC crowd a fast efficient version of OS X, something they'll be able to run for a long time to come, we're dropping support for PPC in the next release...

03 July 2008, 8:08 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Ahmed (New user):

McBanjo, XP was release 7 years ago and runs fine on 7 year old hardware - that's why it runs fine on ULCPCs :-)

Oh those were the days, running XP, Sql Server, Visual Studio and all the other resource hungry apps we use for development - on 450MHz AMD CPU with a whole 512MB of RAM.

If MS wanted backward compatibility they should have developed Vista on that! :-)

03 July 2008, 8:32 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Me In Oz (Regular user):

Quoting Ahmed:
on 450MHz AMD CPU with a whole 512MB of RAM.

That'll be an Uber PC to run Ubuntu 10.x ;-)



04 July 2008, 12:20 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

blairp (New user):

I have owned a Power Mac Dual G5 1.8 since 2005. Upgraded to Leopard, realized right away this was not really optimized for my G5 and, after a few days, downgraded back to Tiger. I’ll get another year of use with this box with 10.4 and then upgrade to an Intel PowerMac. I see Tiger as the last rock solid OS for the PPC. I feel that PPC support in Leopard 10.5 is not as solid as Tiger 10.4. Day after day, this box gives no problems and runs like the day it was first powered up.

03 July 2008, 10:06 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Jeff (User):

I think they need to upgrade the UI - the UI is the biggest thing about Macs stopping people using them. The other big problem is the price of the hardware...

Or they could just improve compatibility with linux so you can easily pop in one of linux desktop environments - the people would have the flexibility to chose what they want to use (what they find easier to use, which is what macs are meant to be about - ease of use)

03 July 2008, 10:35 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Scooter (New user):

Vista compatibility has nothing to do with Hardware. It is all about enterprise software compatibility. Proprietary internal software developed for big businesses would cost too much to be redesigned and redeveloped every time MS pinches off a new OS. Those same businesses purchase so much from MS, they have the power to demand that MS maintain compatibility for their software. Thus the new OS's have to maintain backward compatibility for applications developed years ago. Apple is actually somewhat courageous for thumbing their nose at the enterprise market by ceasing support for older models of computer and software. The truth is both Apple and MS couldn't care less about Joe Nobody's desire to get Snow Leopard running on their Lisa, or Vista cranking on a 286. Just face the fact that if you want to hold onto the legacy, it better be as a hobby. Unless you are buying 5000 units per year and demanding that your sales tracking system developed for DOS still be able to run on the new machine, nobody cares.

04 July 2008, 1:50 AM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

majickman1 (New user):

For God's sake, man...Get Real!! Now that Apple is a PowerPC chip manufacturer, do you really think they are going to cut PPC code out of OS X? Suck it up and admit what a poorly conceived article you just wrote, considering that this is the future of the iPhone. Like Simon Cowell likes to say...SORRY!!!!!!

04 July 2008, 12:32 PM (1 year ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

mrgareth (New user):

Drop PPC support? I really hope not, I can barely make the bills never mind buying myself a new Mac. Long live my PowerMac G4.

04 July 2008, 11:12 PM (12 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Min1123 (New user):

Ok, this is a limited scope comment, but Apple developed OS X with an older format of binary specifically so they can have multi-platform binaries. A single OS X binary can contain multiple architectures which are simply sandwiched into the binary and called based on the OS being used. Since Apple is using X-Code and portable code for all of their programs, and GCC for compilation, making PPC versions is as simple for them as having PPC checked in the box. Typically PPC32, PPC64, i386, x86-64 are all supported, and the binaries have all of these compiled in. It is the developers that are porting and have assembly, or Windows things with Cider that aren't actually portable that are x86 only. Unless Apple is worried about compile time, this shouldn't be an issue.

05 July 2008, 3:29 AM (12 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

K (User):

If there was ever a good example of how extended legacy support can mess things up - look at Windows XP and Vista. Yes, OS X was a pain in the bum when it came out, but the fresh start has now given us an excellent system to work in.

I hope Microsoft do a 'clean slate' approach with the next version of Windows. There's always the option of virtualization if you need backwards compatibility anyway.

05 July 2008, 10:55 AM (12 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

thirdalbum (New user):

Apple needs to keep its users on the upgrade rollercoaster. Think about it: Apple makes money through its hardware, so it needs you to buy a new computer from time to time. It does this through artificially obsoleting your computer.

There was no reason why OS X couldn't run on a beige 604 Macintosh; see XPostFacto. There was no reason why Tiger absolutely required a Firewire port in order to boot and install. Snow Leopard won't run on PowerPC, but the whole operating system will probably still be Fat binaries.

And you can bet your glutes that new Apple software will refuse to run on anything earlier than Snow Leopard. They need people to buy new computers, man.

But this will be a good thing. People will be left behind; and when people are left behind at least some of them will start looking at an inclusive operating system like Linux.

06 July 2008, 5:33 PM (12 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Zedd (New user):

..

07 July 2008, 3:41 PM (12 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Zedd (New user):

3 years is pathetic. That MacBook piece of vampire graphics junk may be as powerful in the CPU as a dual G5 but the G5 walks all over it in every other category, especially graphics. How about the many many QUAD G5s still hanging around? Those Quads still outperform many of Apple's current computers.

07 July 2008, 3:43 PM (12 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

accorn (New user):

You can keep patting yourself on the back for "enjoying the spoils of progress" while really it is Apple that is enjoying parting you with your hard earned money for a few glittery new features that don't amount to much for the average computer user. Just keep putting yourself in debt for those 3k macs, and i'll buy them years later from you for $100. And I could really care less if Apple supports my powermac - just means less money for them.



17 August 2008, 10:27 PM (10 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

accorn (New user):

You can keep patting yourself on the back for "enjoying the spoils of progress" while really it is Apple that is enjoying parting you with your hard earned money for a few glittery new features that don't amount to much for the average computer user. Just keep putting yourself in debt for those 3k macs, and i'll buy them years later from you for $100. And I could really care less if Apple supports my powermac - just means less money for them.


17 August 2008, 10:31 PM (10 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

James Bond (New user):

This s**t is WEAK.

The 'cheap seats'? "Cheap" is a relative term. Why should we not request that new operating systems work for our current computers (G3, etc.)? Why not make an OS that works well on both? Who says you can't? The naysayers? You assume legacy support cripples OS advancement (that's quite a blanket statement). You assume these "laggers" have 20 year old macs, but these upgrades leave even relatively recent macs behind. If I'm spending $2000 on a computer what's so unreasonable about wanting it to last a while? 3 years is nothing.

Actually Mr. Shay-Must-Burn, there is only 1 option - and that's the latter (about letting morons enjoy the so-called 'spoils of progress'). Apple already made that choice for everyone.

But it's Apple's loss really. I was considering buying a cube until I found out that my ibook, which I bought brand new at full price, was (prematurely, IMHO) made EOL. I won't let that happen to me again, so i'll just stick with my low-end mac and windows XP (which runs just fine on my old computer from 1999 by the way). At some point I may buy a new mac - when I think it's cost effective and there is no imminent danger of it being made obsolete the following business day. But until then, Apple and it’s sheeplike devotees can suck it.


18 October 2008, 9:55 AM (8 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

James Bond (New user):

This s**t is WEAK.

The 'cheap seats'? "Cheap" is a relative term. Why should we not request that new operating systems work for our current computers (G3, etc.)? Why not make an OS that works well on both? Who says you can't? The naysayers? You assume legacy support cripples OS advancement (that's quite a blanket statement). You assume these "laggers" have 20 year old macs, but these upgrades leave even relatively recent macs behind. If I'm spending $2000 on a computer what's so unreasonable about wanting it to last a while? 3 years is nothing.

Actually Mr. Shay-Must-Burn, there is only 1 option - and that's the latter (about letting morons enjoy the so-called 'spoils of progress'). Apple already made that choice for everyone.

But it's Apple's loss really. I was considering buying a cube until I found out that my ibook, which I bought brand new at full price, was (prematurely, IMHO) made EOL. I won't let that happen to me again, so i'll just stick with my low-end mac and windows XP (which runs just fine on my old computer from 1999 by the way). At some point I may buy a new mac - when I think it's cost effective and there is no imminent danger of it being made obsolete the following business day. But until then, Apple and it’s sheeplike devotees can suck it.


18 October 2008, 9:55 AM (8 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

accorn (New user):

One thing that is funny is that my powermac g4 running 10.2 can't run any modern mac software just about (Safari etc) - yet it's running windows xp in virtual pc and CAN run any modern windows software. It has nothing to do with capabilities of the machine and is all about greed. Thanks microsoft for making this old mac more relevant :).


24 November 2008, 3:18 PM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

accorn (New user):

One thing that is funny is that my powermac g4 running 10.2 can't run any modern mac software just about (Safari etc) - yet it's running windows xp in virtual pc and CAN run any modern windows software. It has nothing to do with capabilities of the machine and is all about greed. Thanks microsoft for making this old mac more relevant :).

24 November 2008, 3:20 PM (7 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

JerryDean (New user):

This guy is obnoxious and exhibits the snobbish aloofness one would expect from someone who clearly doesn't anticipate being short on cash sometime in the future. The reason why Apple should extend and continue to support Tiger and the PPC framework is its owes it loyal customer base; besised, I don't know whether this gentlemen has noticed, but not everyone is swimming in cash. Not everyone can upgrade every time something new and supposedly improved - Adobe for instance - upgrades it line. Some of us have more modest means, sick relatives to manage, and children to feed and clothe, and all of this means that while we would love to upgrade as much as our more well heeled brethren, often we are forced to make do with older computer models and software versions that we'd like because family and community comes before our need for the latest gadgets. Haven't you figured out yet that most of humanity is poor? Haven't you figured out yet that not every one can plop down another few grand every 24 months for the latest Mac? I applaud the coming of Snow Leopard as much as anyone and I wish Apple well, however, should I penalized because I need to extend the life of my investment? I don't expect Apple to go on supporting the PPC crowd forever, however, the transition away from PPC to Intel a) only occured a little more than two years ago (Oh, sorry you just spent oodles on your new PPC system, but now its old news), b) when much faster than had been promised in Apple press releases, and c) doesn't or shouldn't mean good faith purchases and investments should be relegated to the dustbin so Apple and tech snobs like you can feel superior as you push ahead and create another digital divide between the haves and have nots. Give me a break.

25 April 2009, 5:01 AM (2 months ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Big Baboo (Advanced member):

"What about me? It isn't fair.I've had enough now.I want my share.Can't you see?You just take more than you give. Ooooooooo What about me?" With sincere apologies to the Aussie band who made that famous back in the 70's :) Just as an aside tho' Does anyone know where I can download/obtain a copy of the original "Partition Magic" before Symantec got it's dirty little hands on it? And "Atopcat" Spellcheck :) what is that ? Never heard of it or used it in my life :)

11 June 2009, 10:25 AM (3 weeks ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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