Will the Whirlpool case wash?

Angus Kidman
13 September 2007, 4:49 AM


Prominent lawyers say lawsuits of the type taken by Queensland software company 2Clix's lawsuit against Whirlpool founder Simon Wright are a long shot at best.


Queensland software company 2Clix's decision to sue popular broadband discussion site Whirlpool under the tort of injurious falsehood may sidestep the problem of unfriendly defamation laws, but still presents a formidable challenge in developing a legal case.

With no existing case law in Australia on liability in Internet forums, the stakes are high for publishers, consumers and corporations alike.

Queensland-based accounting software firm 2Clix has sued Simon Wright, founder of Whirlpool, seeking damages of $150,000 (plus costs) and the permanent removal of two threads on the site discussing the company's products.

News of the legal action has prompted widespread coverage of the suit, including prominent discussions on international sites such as Digg and Slashdot, and a whole series of fresh discussion threads on Whirlpool itself.

This is quite possibly not the outcome sought by 2Clix, which argues in its statement of claim that it has suffered "irreparable damage to its trade and business" from the existing two threads.

"Whirlpool believes the action has no merit and will defend the matter vigorously, despite being a community website with little resources," a note on Whirlpool's front page reads.

Numerous Whirlpool participants have pledged to donate money to help fight against the action, although exactly how Wright will respond to the suit is not clear (he must give notice of intent to defend against the action within 28 days).

Internet watchers are already concerned by the development. "This action is an attack on freedom of speech and the ability of consumers to engage in legitimate online criticism. One of the great benefits of the Internet is that it allows consumers to become better informed, by searching for information about products or services," Electronic Frontiers Australia chairperson Dale Clapperton said in a statement.

"If negative comments about poor quality goods or services can't be published for fear of a lawsuit, consumers will be unable to properly inform themselves."

If the action goes to trial, the case is likely to set an important precedent. There are no prominent examples of cases which indicate responsibility for postings made anonymously on Internet forums, according to Leanne Norman, a partner with Freehills specialising in defamation and related matters. (Norman is not involved with the Whirlpool case.)

"It would be clear that if you could identify the person who posted the message, that person would be liable to be sued," Norman told APC. "No question about that. [But] there are real difficulties identifying such people," she noted.

Even with a preliminary discovery application, details such as IP addresses can't always reliably be associated with individuals, and "a lot of these things are sent from anonymous locations," Norman noted.

Defamation laws do make some allowance for site owners and ISPs to be regarded as "innocent disseminators" if they were not aware of particular comments, but 2Clix has not invoked defamation laws in its claim.

The perils of "injurious falsehood"

Indeed, 2Clix's decision to use the relatively rare tort of injurious falsehood appears to be a direct consequence of recent changes to Australian defamation law. "Under the new act, corporations with a few very limited exceptions no longer have a cause of action in defamation," Norman said.

Those changes were designed to ensure that individuals could engage in robust debate and criticism of companies, without the threat of a lawsuit hanging over their head," Clapperton argued in the EFA statement. However, injurious falsehood suits provide a possible corporate alternative.

"There's been a lot more emphasis on injurious falsehood in the last couple of years," Norman said. "It's a tort that's been around forever, but rarely used until now."

A potential disadvantage of injurious falsehood for a plaintiff, however, is that it places a different emphasis on the truth of the matters under dispute.

"In defamation cases, it's more a matter of defence. A plaintiff in the defamation doesn't have to prove that the matter's false," Norman said. "In an injurious falsehood case, it is a necessary element of the defence and the plaintiff bears the responsibility to demonstrate the falsity of those statements."

Such demonstrations aren't always easily possible in matters of opinion. As Justice James explained in Gacic v John Fairfax Publications Pty Limited: "A statement can be the subject of a claim for injurious falsehood, only if it is capable of being true or false."

Some of the comments cited in 2Clix's statement of claim don't appear to be easily subjected to this kind of test. For instance, remark 5(a) -- "I would advise you to avoid this program at all costs" -- appears to be a statement of opinion. (If lawyers objected to individual remarks, 2Clix could file an amended statement of claim, although its action seeks to eliminate the threads in their entirety, not just the allegedly damaging remarks.)

As well as establishing the falsity of the contested remarks, 2Clix must also demonstrate that the defendant published with malice, and provide clear evidence of the economic damage created. "You have to show actual economic loss" such as downturn in business or a contract cancellation, Norman said. "That's a hard thing to prove. It is definitely a higher hurdle than a defamation case. But they've got no alternative as a company."

If the case does go to trial, the spotlight is likely to shine even more strongly on both 2Clix and Whirlpool, given the potential impact on all kinds of site operators. The EFA will be watching developments closely. "If the Whirlpool action goes to trial (which is by no means certain) we will consider making an amicus submission at the appropriate time," Clapperton told APC.

"EFA's position is that the law should treat online actions in the same way as offline actions. This doesn't mean that a forum operator is or should be liable for complaints that people make on their forum."

All major publishers in Australia will be watching the case closely. The legal precedent that would be created by 2Clix winning in court against Whirlpool would cripple the potential for publishers to develop their own online communities. Commercial publishers are increasingly growing their businesses around user-contributed comment and content.


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Interested Observer:

The article states that Simon Wright is being sued for $150,000 per month.

According to the copy of the Statement of Claim posted on Whirlpool http://whirlpool.net.au/img/article/2clix/soc.pdf on p11 it says that the loss is $150,000 per month, but para 15 says they are only claiming damages in the amount of $150,000, i.e. one month's loss. This is repeated in para 18(a) on p 12 of the SoC.



29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Wrath66:

Free speech online 'under threat'


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6090448.stm




29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Mark:

Oh well, I guess the days of open and honest opinion about products and services may be going out the window. I'm curious to see if Tel$ta are hiring more laywers, after all how many negative posts on forum sites are there about them!!

Oops, probably shouldn't have said that. You'd better get a good lawyer APCmag. <>

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymouslol:

The best way you can voice your anger against 2Clix for this lawsuit is to not buy their software and to tell everyone you know (that might be interested in their category of software) about this debacle.

They can sue themselves for lost revenue after all the negative sentiment they have created for themselves grows into lost sales. I have no qualms with their software specifically, but as a company, I abhor them.



29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

bob:

I wonder if they'll sue you for telling people not to buy their product, due to loss of business.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymous1:

no, they will sue apc

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

tin:

Dig your own grave, and save?
Going out with a bang?
Pulling an SCO?

Whatever you want to call it, they don't seem to have thought this through. They certainly got their name out there... But it's gone straight into the little black bad books of so many IT people in Australia.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

KD:

If 2clix wanted to keep their users negative opinions quiet, they seem to have gone about it in the wrong manner. Before a relatively small group of internet users may have read the posts, now virtually the entire connected world knows that they have dissatisfied customers.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymous_LOL:

Could not agree more. Well said. Funny stuff really, you would think as a software company the would have a pretty good understanding of how dynamic internet forums can be.

Perhaps it is a publicity stunt to get their name out there? No idea... they must have known this would happen?

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Dan Warne:

It's not true that 'no publicity is bad publicity'. This is terrible publicity for 2Clix -- given Whirlpool's popularity with just about every computer enthusiast and IT manager in the country, I can't see 2Clix being able to close off too many more sales of their software.

I also think they've totally missed the importance of this lawsuit. Because there is virtually no existing case law in this area, it CANNOT be allowed to succeed because of the disastrous precedent it would create for future cases of this type. My guess is the largest Australian publishers will band together to fund the defence of this case if necessary -- otherwise, online communities in Australia will be screwed forevermore, and that would constitute an enormous financial loss for publishers in the future.

Sure, it is a clever legal strategy since it avoids the safeguards put in place in the recently reformed Australian national uniform defamation laws, but it's also too clever by half -- 2Clix may have thought it was just suing a small community forum that couldn't defend itself, but it's actually suing the entire Australian media. Communities are absolutely essential to the growth of online advertising in Australia, which is already a $4billion per year market. Large publishers will not let that revenue be threatened by a legal precedent created by some pissant lawsuit.



29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Wizard of OZ:

Companies that act like this get lots of negative publicity, and suffer even more as a result, and get everything they deserve. People should be free to make positive or negative remarks based on their experiences with software and their providers.

Whirlpool is just such a website that caters for people wishing to be informed of the good and bad points of software and hardware and services from the people that use them already.

If companies react positively to constructive criticism, they are praised by users, but if they resort to these sort of tactics, people shy away from using their services, and rightly too.

Who wants to deal with companies that behave like this?

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Wizard of OZ:

From two threads that most people hadn't even heard about, to well over 210 PAGES of comments about 2Clix actions on the Whirlpool site and this article in APCmag just about says it all!

Go Whirlpool!!!!!

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

david of katanning:

although ive skimmed the news about this , i havent actually gone to whirlpool to read the offending ? ( well they may be offensive to 2Clix but i doubt to anyone else ) posts .
However from what ive understood , 2clix has some commercial software , which people commented on , to the point they criticized it publicly in a discussion forum specifically set there for people to discuss software .

Now if it had of been me and my software , my response would have been to respond in the forum , offering the usual sales pitch of how the software is good and it does this and that , and offered to have the software tested by a neutral reviewer for comparison , and finally offered to deal with individuals / companies having issue with the software , to try and bring them back on board and give the impression that you are willing to help your customer .

now pointing out that im not in business ( im a stay at home dad ) but that that seems to be the way to try and keep customers happy , instead it appears as if this 2Clix is trying to drive themselves to the wall , No customer is going to consider them if they think that if they have issues and cant get immediate help out of the company , they are going to be unable to ask around to find help or prior to getting the software , find informed opinions about it .

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Jason246546253768:

You forgot the 34 articles so far the google has in their news section + the comments on those sites!

http://news.google.com.au/?ncl=1120652724&hl=en

I myself, haven't even bothered to read the threads and are just going to boycott this un known company in the future.. if i ever was to come across them in the future in the first place

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Tasper:

2Clix have transformed a low key local discussion by dissatisfied users of their ERP software into an internationally publicised legal event. . I suspect that their marketing department may suddently find that they have a rather challenging job. Every prospective customer of 2Clix's will now know that negative comments about their product have been curtailed by the threat of legal action. Every potential customer will know that as a result, any postive comments about their product will therefore be a highly selective sample of customer opinion

The best tort and defamation QCs in the nation are going to be knocking at Whirlpool's door for a chance to do this case pro bono ( for free ). After all this case will set a precedent that will be cited for years to come. Any barrister who defends Whirlpool will be able to use this case on his CV for decades, regardless of the outcome.


2Clix really have failed to think through the implications and likely effects of this action.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Michael Danubrata:

This is a free country, we should be allowed to voice our opinions. because one company has a problem with some postings shouldn't give them the right to sue - i'd say to that company to pay attention to whats being said and fix the problem! Stop wasting the legal bills and fix the problem !!!


29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

ren (New user):

If everyone things like you, a lot of lawyers will run out of job

11 November 2008, 11:35 AM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

JDog:

Wow, even if they win the case, it will be a great Pyrrhic victory for them! Smart ehh... lose more revenue because you decide to sue a forum... bit like McDonald's in the 1990s with their McLibel Case!


29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

The Elite Geek:

It's rather funny to see idiots like 2Clix attempt to sue in an effort to silence someone.

Funnily enough, in an eBay transaction, I left negative feedback and just today the seller of the item threatened legal action for loss of income as a result of leaving negative feedback.

Claiming that should I remove it he will not take action.

My response? I await your legal documents.

Such companies need to be tought a very expensive lesson, if they are going to sue someone, at least go in with some evidence to state they are responsible for it and a solid case to attach the blame to them.

2Clix will find themselves withdrawing this case, or going broke. It's funny. VERY FUNNY.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymouse:

Definitly should come up in the next editions of dictionaries:

Pyrrhic Victory:
1, SCO vs Novell
(entry edited)2, 2clix vs Whirlpool


even if this company (...and i am being very generous about their chances...) wins this case, the self-shot foot will make the whole thing a moot point. debacle and pyrrhic victory definitely are other words come to my mind regarding this.

I read the US site Ars Technica which has ever since filing followed the SCO case, and it really has, to me, highlighted why making a "business model" of litigation is a seriously bad idea. This one looks similar in some ways and i suspect the end result of chasing off customers will apply as well.

If i owned this company i would be firing whoever under me thought it was a good idea to 'protect' the business with this tactic, tell the remainder of employees to *actually* fix the problem, and then make an apology to Mr. Wright. then, i might just be lucky to get away with a mild haemorrhage of customers...

just by the bye i had never paid attention to 2clix before - i think i have come across them but never paid them any mind. Predictably this is no longer the case....

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Gavin Jackson:

Whatever happened to freedom of speech????????

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymous2:

Freedom of speech is granted in USA via their First Amendment. Show me what legal document provides freedom of speech in Australia. Not that I'm against the concept at all, but don't automatically assume you have this right like Americans do.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

sgc:

Freedom of speech in Australia is not a right which Australians enjoy. Australian MEDIA largely enjoys this freedom, solely because they have large teams of lawyers ready and able to defend any actions taken against them. Individuals themselves can exercise the same speech as the media, but they have to be prepared to appear in court should someone, or some corporation, take offence at their statements.

Given the importance on online journalism these days, Whirlpool can probably consider themselves members of the media, and expect legal support to fend off this one.

29 February 2008, 8:48 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Mr Bagel:

-The comments below are an expression of the authors personal opinion.-
I've been a reader / contributor on Whirlpool for a while and whilst I generally only read, I came across this initial post and it remained a very quiet post for a long time.

It attracted a few expressions of opinion from people who in one way or another 'in my opinion' weren't happy, as well as a few who were.

On the Forum 2Clix seem to have tried to instigate a 'complaints resolution process' with its real purpose being to stifle debate. 2Clix needs to realise it can't control peoples opinions by throwing tantrums worthy of a 2 year old.

Taking on a online forum and trying to stifle peoples opinions has to be the most ill though strategy of all time.

I resent 2Clix for trying to stifle peoples opinions, any company that is so inept to shoot itself in the foot in this manner, is going to raise the question of its competence.

I feel so strongly about this, I'm going to be putting my hand in my pocket for one of them, you can guess which one.

Regards Mr Bagel

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Loosestping:

I want to know why there's a company with the same address and contact details as 2Clix called "Platinum 1" advertising the same sort of software online.

One possibility is that 2Clix may be preparing to decommission the 2Clix brand due to the overwhelming negative feedback this lawsuit has generated.

I wonder if the UK company 2Clix that also sells the software will sue 2Clix here for the adverse reaction -- worldwide -- to the lawsuit?



29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Anonymous34534:

It'll never happen.....
There would be to much of a snow ball effect if they won.

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

M G:

How many people looking to buy this product would of actually of read these threads? Common sense is not all that common!

29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

Kon:

Dont you think that this is actually good for Whirlpool?
I mean, I dont think that any other 'community' web site has had so much publicity ever in Australia.


29 February 2008, 8:32 PM (3 years ago)report abuse Send to a friend reply

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