2,000 Windows 7 bugs squashed, says Microsoft

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

"Nvidia has launched a new set of beta drivers in 32- and 64-bit flavours for Windows 7."

Bravo ! This is certainly a promising start !
Hope you are listening AMD, Logitech and Creative !

CBR1100XX (Advanced member):

"take heart in the news from Steve Sinofsky"

One of the best ideas MS ever came up with was to give Sinofsky a large hand in this development. He certainly did MS proud with the Office Suite.

@APC
It's been rarely mentioned, if at all, that Win 7 will run the rendered desktop GUI without any hardware acceleration from a GPU if the CPU is a grunty one.

Check out last month's PC Powerplay.

Maybe you can do a CPU performance test with and without a GPU on a new i7 Core CPU Rig ?

gankul (Cornerstone member):

to be honest, i would prefer they test it on curent core 2 duo chips rather then i7, as i7 wont be mainstream until the end of the year, cost being the main factor.

and windows 7 would be best tested on lower end computerse since thats where the complaints came from that vista was bloated.

Your Average Joe (Cornerstone member):

Quoting gankul:
and windows 7 would be best tested on lower end computerse since thats where the complaints came from that vista was bloated.

I'll never ubderstand this incessant request to run new tech on old hardware !
You wouldn't put a 4870 or GTX280 in a P3 so why would anyone want to run Win 7 on a P3 or even P4 (I'm thinking at least dual core) ?
Luddites who want to keep old hardware can simply run Win98/Win2K/Xp or heaven forbid, even Linux !
Win 7 was never designed for old hardware so lets all give up this notion that it should have been !

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
so lets all give up this notion that it should have been !

LOL ! Should have seen how many people bought Vista to run on their celeron laptops with 512 MB RAM ! ..... Good upgrade income for retailers though ;-)

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
Good upgrade income for retailers though

What better argument for open source! I hope the short term gains are good, because a business model based on take their money and just keep laughing may be one where it's worth looking for another income before too long.

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
keep laughing may be one where it's worth looking for another income before too long.

We'll leave the likes of you to save the planet with your moral crusades and we'll just keep earning money to pay the bills :)

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
We'll leave the likes of you to save the planet with your moral crusades

Save the planet? Nah that's not my gig, and undies on the outside is not a good look.

Quoting Me In Oz:
and we'll just keep earning money to pay the bills

yeah I guess prostitutes have families that need feeding too. :>
But seriously. Even though some people are too stupid to accept good advice, wont they blame you the retailer when things go pair shaped? Hardly fair, but then reality seldom is.

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
and undies on the outside is not a good look.

Will you please leave Bill Gates alone !!!

Quoting Raindog:
wont they blame you the retailer when things go pair shaped?

They do ! and quite vehemently. But that's why there are warranty conditions and refund policies, which in our case are clearly written on the receipt and are clearly explained before purchase.

Tin (Regular user):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
I'll never ubderstand this incessant request to run new tech on old hardware


Vista barely runs on current hardware. 2 years after release.
I'll never understand this incessant apologising for crapty software from people who's only relation to the vendor is "customer".

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting CBR1100XX:
Maybe you can do a CPU performance test with and without a GPU on a new i7 Core CPU Rig ?

Along with some benchmarks testing the i7 Chipsets which now have no FSB !

agami (User):

I hate to be the only conspiracy theorist in the forum but a) Isn't a beta program designed to find bugs and correct them? and b) Couldn't Microsoft have release the early beta with an excessive amount of bugs so that when they actually fix them it apears noteworthy.

Given that Windows 7 is actually Vista reworked by a different team couldn't one also read this as "Microsft realeased Early Windows 7 beta with way too many bugs". And given that a bug equals a "piece of string" 90% of the 2000 could be as little as "use of periods instead of comas in european decimals".

CBR1100XX (Advanced member):

Quoting agami:
I hate to be the only conspiracy theorist

Or you can say that Sinofsky's team is hard at work rectifying and releasing a product that should redeem MS in the eyes of its loyal fan base. I'd rather hear about the 2000 bugs at beta than at RTM.
I would like to think MS are on the right track and are doing their best. But hey ! That's the sort of 'glass half full' guy I am :)

agami (User):

Quoting CBR1100XX:
I'd rather hear about the 2000 bugs at beta than at RTM.

Me too.
My question is, what have we got to compare it to. How many bugs were fixed between beta 1 and beta 2 in Longhorn, Whistler, NT5, and Memphis?

And also, how big is a bug?

It's clear that MS wants 7 to be the redemption OS. They're trying to build up goodwill and restore product confidence and that takes a long time. This is why I suspect that this piece of news has more to do with that than actual bug fixing.

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting CBR1100XX:
I would like to think MS are on the right track and are doing their best.

............ I would too, but I'm sure it will be at a monetary cost :)

Quoting CBR1100XX:
That's the sort of 'glass half full' guy I am

Yes ! Well stop that ! You are way too jovial ;-)

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
I'll never understand this incessant request to run new tech on old hardware !

you never will if you only consider things from a consumer enthusiast point of view. There are other uses for PC and operating systems than shooting small icons from a screen.


Quoting Your Average Joe:
so why would anyone want to run Win 7 on a P3 or even P4 (I'm thinking at least dual core) ?

With P3 you are just being silly, but any good operating system should support several years of legacy hardware. There are lots of those celerons and low spec processors out there in boxes that are not exactly ready for the recyclers (land-fill).


Quoting Your Average Joe:
Luddites who want to keep old hardware can simply run Win98/Win2K/Xp or heaven forbid, even Linux !

Can they? Not legally they cannot. With the exception of Linux none of the OS's you mentioned are available for retail sale. And part of the Vista thrust is to remove support and deliberately cripple operation of older software.

The marketplace looked at Vista weighed up the cost and said a resounding NO! And tooling round re-arranging the desktop isn't going to fix that.

MS have to revert to a more wider ranging support strategy if they wish to regain what they have lost. That isn't a suggestion of loading Win 7 on ancient boxes, but a reality that most organisations cannot afford anything other than a programmed migration and gradual replacement of their IT investment.
Until MS addresses this reality it will continue a cycle of over promise and under delivery and will continue to open the door to alternatives.

Would you prefer job security or a quad core PC in every cubicle of your workplace? Look at your confusion regarding older hardware in that light and you may begin to understand.

Tin (Regular user):

Quoting Raindog:
Not legally they cannot. With the exception of Linux none of the OS's you mentioned are available for retail sale.


And pretty much all updates (including security) have stopped for anything older than XP from MS, so if you stick with Windows, it's insecure or illegal...
Strange considering MS really don't want us moving people over to competitors platforms.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Tin:
Strange considering MS really don't want us moving people over to competitors platforms.

Maybe they do! there isn't too much chance of those customer coming back though.
MS is busy undermining office itself, with freeware almost equivalent.
Exchange server is falling from favour. The reasons for staying are fast eroding.

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
Quoting Tin:
Strange considering MS really don't want us moving people over to competitors platforms.

They don't ! They want them to move to their latest releases that are capable of getting the most out of the new hardware.

Quoting Raindog:
MS is busy undermining office itself

That is one POV. A lot of us 'end-users' think '07 is a great product :)

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
That is one POV?

Were you expecting more. :>


Quoting Me In Oz:
A lot of us 'end-users' think '07 is a great product

I was not making comment on Office 07 or even its reintroduction of compatibility issues. My comment were more on MS intentions to dabble with hire of net based office equivalents. Such a move can only undermine one of their key product lines, while opening consumer consideration for other vendors products.

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
My comment were more on MS intentions to dabble with hire of net based office equivalents

Understood ! These forums are quite difficult to follow sometimes !
And in this case I'm with you on this. (eeek !) ;-)

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
with freeware almost equivalent

'almost' is also a relative POV.

Quoting Raindog:
The reasons for staying are fast eroding.

Eroding for who ? You and the other half dozen or so on here who don't like their products ?
You are all welcomed to think that while MS will keep raking in the money.
Their development strategy may be suspect sometimes but their marketing and vision are second to none.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
Eroding for who ?

Consumers perhaps?


Quoting Me In Oz:
You and the other half dozen or so on here who don't like their products ?

Well the seven of us must buy a hell of a lot of copies of software then. Given the sales performance Vista has shown.

Quoting Me In Oz:
You are all welcomed to think that while MS will keep raking in the money.

The rush to Win 7 confirms my suggestions that sales expectation have not been met.


Quoting Me In Oz:
Their development strategy may be suspect sometimes

The word "stalled" comes to mind. Perpetual rearrangement of the same old desktop can hardly claim the tag development.


Quoting Me In Oz:
but their marketing and vision are second to none.

Marketing so good it selling a promise that isn't being kept, or should that be sold.

I wont question the vision, but then if current offerings are anything to go by, MS has lost all clues of how it will achieve its future visions.

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
The rush to Win 7 confirms my suggestions that sales expectation have not been met.

Huh ? Win 7 has not been released to market in yet ..... Isn't it still in beta ?

As for the beta it is being downloaded and trialed by the truckload with generally glowing reports (in the enthusiasts and single desktop arena anyway).

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
Huh ? Win 7 has not been released to market in yet ..... Isn't it still in beta ?

That's what all the articles say. If I rephrased to "the rush to develop and deliver to market Win 7" would that make things easier?



Quoting Me In Oz:
As for the beta it is being downloaded and trialed by the truckload ............... (in the enthusiasts and single desktop arena anyway).

People with lots of spare time, for the great many of them what are they hoping to achieve with a beta?
Do they understand the concept and purpose of a beta release?
the whole concept is a legion away from that end user profit you were speaking of a few posts back.

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
you only consider things from a consumer enthusiast point of view.

Well we'll leave you and the rest of the IT developer 'gurus' on here to give us all the 'developer' perspective and and us 'small' band of retailers and wholesalers and end-users will give the view from a profit making point of view.

Quoting Raindog:
that are not exactly ready for the recyclers

Good ! And if you choose to 'muck' around with these dinosaurs then go ahead and dig out your old copies of Win98/XP/Win2K or Linux.

Illegal ? It's not ilegal if you have old copies sitting in your cupboards or purchase them from swap meets.

Quoting Raindog:
Would you prefer job security or a quad core PC in every cubicle of your workplace?

Why can't we ask for both ? I know in 'my' industry it is imperitive to have and use all the lastest gear.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
and us 'small' band of retailers and wholesalers and end-users will give the view from a profit making point of view.

So profit is the sole domain of PC hardware wholesalers and retailers, how very curious. I'd better tell my accountant and customers of this immediately. :>


Quoting Me In Oz:
And if you choose to 'muck' around with these dinosaurs then go ahead

Muck about? You are talking about business machines, you don't muck about with those, you don't transfer operating systems, or tinker. But you do try to maximise their working life and you do need to justify any expenditure. Where are the productivity increases from these new OS's?
How do you justify a PC replacement that uses more energy, require more resources, and delivers no measurable gains in productivity?

Quoting Me In Oz:
Why can't we ask for both ?

All you need do is put forward a cost justification.


Quoting Me In Oz:
I know in 'my' industry it is imperative to have and use all the latest gear.

One would have taken that as a given in PC retail, but its far from a reality in other homes, offices and workplaces.

The Big Baboo (User):

Sheesh After reading all that rubbish on "Neowin" link I might skip Win7 altogether and maybe go play with Linux or something similar. Of course then I'd have a whole new set of questions for you guys :)

AKS (New user):

Check out this bug, not fixed yet and Windows 7 is relesed yesterday.
https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=489672&wa=wsignin1.0