Windows XP to be phased out by year's end despite customer demand

raindog:

Good One Microsoft, ignore the wishes and needs of the marketplace entirely, perhaps Vista should be renamed as Windows Edsel, the product they thought we should have.

Dell has acted on customer demand and the cowboys from Microsoft go all out to close down those same options of consumer choice. Couldn't be a better time for the rumoured Dell + Open Source OS to gain momentum.

Bradavon:

The marketplace very much wanted 98 still when XP came out but no one would want it now.

dealwithit:

Except, genius, that XP was FASTER than 98 and demonstrated IMPROVEMENTS. Vista is SLOWER, clunkier, and offer the user NO practical benefit. NONE. But, it DOES look nice. THAT'S certainly a reason to downgrade, huh?

Space:

Not true m8.
WindowsXP was never faster than Windows 89. In fact it used a lot more CPU power in idle leaving less for power hungry apps like 3D rendering and photo processing.

Two things were faster: search was faster ( who cares, power users do know where they store data, so they to not need search ) and system swap worked faster ( again redundant feature, every1 knows that RAM is 10-50 times faster than fastest hard drive or hard drive system, so smart user would use more ram to get jobe done in less time ) Note Windows 98 was limited to 384MB of RAM, the rest it did show as installed but Windows 98 did not use anything over 384MB. I say SABOTAGE.

Windows XP uses makeup on GUI and lacks agillity on simple GUI operations like window and menu operations. Makeup feature can be turned off to speed up GUI but does not free CPU.

Windows XP did improve multimedia, but did abandone several superior hardware relate d features that were unique to the win32 platform at the time.

Windows XP security was a bitch, windows 98 was lot more tweakable.

If any1 thinks that windows XP is faster I am ready to demonstrate 5 minute installation of windows 98 and 15 more minutes for complete drivers, multimedia and interet connection on simple 1GHz Athlon with 256MB of ram and simple 20GB hard drive.

Now let's talk about windows Vista...

How many minutes ( or hours ) you need to complete installation with multimedia, security and softwere that YOU USE ?

Does the Vista allows YOU to do more in less time like windows XP did when You upgraded from Windows 98 ?

Did You try to upgrade Windows XP machine to Vista and use seirous expensive software thet runs on specific audio and video proccesing hardware ?

Qban:

Windows 98 had NO security. Anyone who implies that it did has no clue what they are talking about. The transition from Windows 98 was to Millenium or Windows 2000, not XP. Vista reminds me a lot of Millenium. It is a rush to market of a product that is obviously not ready. That is absolutely clear at this point. The only beneifits that Vista has claimed to have that anyone should really be concerned with is security and the new TCP/IP stack. The new security is a joke when any user can elevate their priveledges to Administrator without a password and the stack is buggy. I don't know one IT professional who has gone to Vista that has not been utterly frustrated. I manage 100+ PC's at my business. We have 3 Vista boxes. They perform terribly. There is absolutely no way I will install that under-achieving bloatware on any more machines until at least SP1 and that is only if Microsoft can fix the countless issues we see on a day to day basis with these current machines. If you want to know the truth, ask someone who is responsible for keeping a company running smoothly. Anyone who thinks that going Vista right now makes any business sense is quite frankly not very inteligent or has obviously just bought in to the Microsoft advertising hype without doing their homework.

Alicia C Simpson:

If you want to do something good for your company put Linux on every box. Xandros is a good choice right out of the box, it includes Crossover so you can continue to run Microsoft Office, Adobe Pagemaker, Adobe Photoshop and hundreds of other Windows applications natively under Linux.

You can even go with Ubuntu and only buy Crossover from Codeweavers for those who really NEED to run Windows applications.

Any Linux distro will work very well on a computer designed to run Windows 2000!

Anonymous123:

dream on, why would anyone replace a buggy OS with bad driver support with a hard to support OS with terrible driver support.
Nope as bad as MS is they rule the business market for a reason.

Dipstick:

In the real world, driver support at the moment for linux is better than vista (i.e. Nvidia, Creative and other "big" brands), and certainly, when new drivers need to be created, it happens far quicker than on Windows.

Once I heard about the DRM and licencing requirements (since when do you buy something and not own it?), I slowly switched my home computers/laptops over to ubuntu, after trying out a few distros.

My computer illiterate wife's Compaq laptop works brilliantly (and she hasn't ground it down to a halt with spyware), I have a computer made from various brands all absolutely wonderful, and finally the cobbled-together 1.3ghz celeron that I put together from the leftovers of the last few years works brilliantly. I couldn't ask for more.

halfFAST:

"Once I heard about the DRM and licencing requirements (since when do you buy something and not own it?), I slowly switched my home computers/laptops over to ubuntu, after trying out a few distros."

Umm... typically with all software you are simply buying a license to use someone else's product. You don't hardly ever own anything more than the right to use the program according to the terms given to you by the creator. Ever taken the time to consider what exactly the LICENSE AGREEMENT, that most of us just habitually accept, on just about every single piece of software we install actually is?

Even with open source software, you don't "own" the software. It is typically released with a much, much less restrictive license, but technically you still only have a right to use it to the extent granted to you in the EULA.

And the primary reason why Microsoft continues to do so well is because of its widespread familiarity with how to operate it(Vista may very well kill this benefit with how it rearranged everything though). In other words, you can call just about any support center and expect to be able to have someone help you through most any day-to-day task on a Windows XP machine. Linux is still a long way away from this and requires either a more technical user, or a more specialized support resource. And yes, as of now anyways, that is a clear advantage to using Windows XP over any other OS.

G_man:

you sir are an idiot millenium was nothing more than a tweaked 98 se and you must not be very good at managing systems sounds to me like you have just jumped on the microsoft bashing band wagon i'll bet you said exactly the same about xp. I manage 200 systems with vista ultimate installed and everyone runs like a dream. I hate microsoft and their BS but vista actually works and works VERY WELL ! if you use it properly

rita:

I have a brand new dell machine with Vista on it connected to a linksys router with a machine with xp on it. on the vista machine i am having trouble connecting and staying connected to the internet. i have worked with dell unresolved and microsoft support for vista windows no resolve. do you have any suggestions they haven't come up with?

big Joe:

Um, everything works flawlessly huh? Try using ANY bluetooth device with Vista and perform a suspend or hibernate. I guarantee you NONE of the bluetooth devices will function when you restore from the suspend/hibernate state.

FG:

der der der der you sir are a absolute retard and a serious liar , 200 vista machines , you must have the taste of BS in your mouth , your so full of shit your hair is prolly brown . keep your mouth on billies willie and out of post .

jonno112 (New user):

Well i run Xp over 900 and there is no problem with it, can you tell me an advantage of swapping over to vista. Cause there was a good reason for jumping of 98 and that was the implementation of a single point for security.

jonno112 (New user):

Well i run Xp over 900 and there is no problem with it, can you tell me an advantage of swapping over to vista. Cause there was a good reason for jumping of 98 and that was the implementation of a single point for security.

jonno112 (New user):

Well i run Xp over 900 and there is no problem with it, can you tell me an advantage of swapping over to vista. Cause there was a good reason for jumping of 98 and that was the implementation of a single point for security.

McMek:

You cannot compare the XP with Vista, becouse when XP came around there were no shortage of drivers, becouse the drivers were the same with Win2000 and NT-s before that. The time when XP appeared, win200 drivers worked perfectly, antivirus softwares worked also, there wasn't anything to worry about. Back then, it was possible to buy hardware and make any program and game run faster in XP then in 98. Now, even if you manage to have 4GB of RAM and mainstrean graphic even then XP is faster. So, I say Vista is too heave for this hardware, maybe in a year or so but not now. And please when you make comparisons 98, XP and XP, Vista, have in mind that 98 wasn't so stable in every machine. I can say that for 60% of hardware you'd have to reinstall 98 in every three month. XP is different. you cannot say that Vista more stable than XP

DanMan32:

I think you forget the issues that existed when XP came out. Many peripherals were not yet compatible with XP due to driver issues. XP was a cross between 98 (based on the GUI) and W2K (based on the kernel). Not all W2K drivers worked on XP, and not all 98 drivers worked on XP. Sometimes one or the other would work for a temporary solution, but not always.

I suspect Vista will go through the same growing pains XP did. It will take a year for the mess to clear up. Even after 3 months of Vista being released to retail, many apps and drivers don't work on it. Which if you ask me, is the fault of the 3rd party developers.

Heck, even some webpages won't work on Vista, since they don't work properly on IE7.

oldrigger:

Windows XP I don't believe was any fater than 98. What I did notice is I haven't seen anywhere near as many illegal function errors as I saw with 98.

Anonymous64:

"WindowsXP was never faster than Windows 89. In fact it used a lot more CPU power in idle leaving less for power hungry apps like 3D rendering and photo processing."

You don't understand what an idle process is, do you?

It is a faux-process that represents the processor being idle: it isn't using anything.

smalltalk:

Can you provide a reference to the claims that XP was faster than 98?

Didn't think so. If you were around when XP launched you will remember that a big complaint was that XP was slower on the same systems as 98 in nearly every benchmark. The reason was that XP used the NT kernel which did more hardware abstraction (remember HAL?) and the extra abstraction required more resources.

XP Appears faster than 98 because XP tended to be installed on newer faster systems than 98 had been. But when measured on the same hardware XP was almost always slower.

In a year Vista will appear to be faster than XP because the new systems it is installed on will all be faster than the old XP systems people ran XP on.

Marty:

I suppose Vista will be faster after you upgrade to a server for the average home user. So what is the cost to the average user? Oh my, I have to be a corporation to justify the cost of a computer to do my taxes with Vista!!!

PJ:

Any hardcore desktop geek loved 98se. Yes IT needed to be updated to keep up with media and graphics...etc. BUT ONLY UPGRADED, not replaced by some "heavy on the-let your PC do it for you crap"! I can't stand my computer telling me what to do! I have spent so much time uninstalling and turning off things that I am NOT HAPPY!
And this $%&*%$ security thing. Geez, they make your computers so that they protect you from you now! So those of us that READ, have to put up with security to protect us from going or doing something on our computer that might be concidered unsafe by those who have one finger stuck in their ear saying duh!!!! Come on now! All you need to do is PREVENT bad guys from messing up your computer. So, install a preboot scanner/fixer. Use a self controlled Firewall, and a pop up blocker. Now control yourself from clicking links you know you shouldn't...lol Don't open email from unsolisited senders. And stay away from porn and other breeding grounds for malware! (No pun intended, but still kinda funny). BUT NOOOOO ! I had to leave behind my 98se...waaaaa, to get this Vista crap. I have to have a bigger hard drive just to hold all this stuff I don't want or need. The thought of what the heck are "no nothings" going to do with this overwhelming behemoth gives me the idea to go into business helping them. I think I'll get rich! ROFLMAO

I so miss my web desktop. It was something I looked forward to everytime I booted up. I would play for hours, getting it just so, using wallpapers and ani gifs and wavs. I miss having absolute control over my PC. If it weren't for forums and tech news sites helping to figure out some of this mess, this new PC would be out the window...lol
And why the heck, did they change the wording and designation of things. I had a real bad headache after trying to find everything on here. Well, my vote on Vista is both thumbs down!

G-Man:

Just enable the built in admin account thats hidden in vista and you will have as much contorol as u did in 98 se and i promise u it will run twice as fast and U !!! not vista will be in CONTROL !!!

Curtai:

just wondering how you do what your talking about enabling the admin account in vista...

Alexander Fuchs:

There are many memory/cpu intensive apps that run faster on NT/2000/XP than under 98.

Anonymous64:

Windows XP was 15% faster on the same hardware than 98. This was published on the MSDN website.

Vista on the same hardware as XP with all animations on runs at about the same speed as XP with all animations off (my subjective experience upgrading with a clean install of Vista on what was once my XP machine). I am, franky, pleasantly surprised by this unexpected outcome (and yes, I have aero).

I am seeing no problems at all, despite having a wide range of software, except that Creative are a bit slow to get their drivers uptodate for Audigy2ZS cards.

In the latter case, the built-in driver with Vista works fine, the Creative drivers have a lot of core features disabled, and there is no THX console yet, which is bad if you want surround sound (it adjusts the phase timing and levels of the individual speakers). This is very sad considering Vista has been 6 years coming with several years in beta, and XP is about to be phased out in 2 months or so.

geeky_1:

I installed windows XP the day it came out. I never had the problems going from 98 to xp that I'm having going from xp to vista. I notice that when I was beta testing vista I kept blaming things on the fact that it was the beta version. Well guess what Its out of beta and it still sucks. xp like 2000 will run on about anything you throw at it where as vista wont even work with some of microsofts hardware I have been fighting with. I know when I buy / build a new system I will be on ebay trying to find a copy of xp pro.

dekess:

Your forgot to mention the abysmal 2000 and millennium editions that failed miserably before they hit on XP. Microsoft has a history of cramming inferior products down the publics throat

Potoroo:

RE: dekess

"Your forgot to mention the abysmal 2000 and millennium editions that failed miserably before they hit on XP. Microsoft has a history of cramming inferior products down the publics throat"

Whilst WinMe deservedly bears the title of the worst Windows ever, Win2000 (aka NT5) was a distinct improvement over NT4. Far from being inferior, it was the version where MS largely solved the instability problems that had plagued the NT line until then. Many businesses are happily running Win2k to this day.

kiwiclay:

Microsoft has an operating history of inferior products right to their founding days,
TRS-DOS had to be the buggiest program I ever used, I lost count of the number of fellow students floppy disks that I had to patch to save critical data, and the original PC-DOS had many of the same flaws.
The problem has been is no company seems prepared to attempt to produce a better PC operating system with the same level of commercial support, Tho I will agree LINUX is getting closer to this point.

Wes:

Also the change from 98 to XP did not the hardware demands that we have with the change from XP to Vista.

TomCat:

I agree, raindog. Could 2008 be "The Year of the Penguin"?

cmeeks:

The flightless bird has landed so to speak. As Microsoft's idea of what a OS should be moves further from that of the public especially small business Linux gains market share.

Anonymouse:

could this be just the ticket ?
http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html

Absinthyium:

Definitely, I'm waiting on ReactOS as well. However if you take in consideration just how long the project has been running now, the fact that they've been stuck in the final stretch of auditing the os' code for a few months at least, and that they still seem to be nowhere near a beta version... well, we've got quite a wait. I'll just stick to XP and reading the latest Linux manual til then. ('cause when it's ready, xp is history on any system I have!)

afterdarkxxx:

"Please bear in mind that ReactOS 0.3.1 is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature complete and is not recommended for everyday use."

Go developer, stay away power user

Zexy:

re:
could this be just the ticket ?
http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html

ReactOS is still in Alpha....doubtful it will be ready for mass market anytime soon. I do applaude their efforts though. I'll be stopping by their site from time to time to see how the progress goes. For now though I will just move to Ubuntu. Outside of a few big aps/games, I can get whatever else I need or something comparable to what I was using on Winbloze.
.

FooCumber:

No, it will not be the "Year of the Penguin". Even if microsoft blows everything, the transition will be slow. Not only so people will move to OS X before they move to linux. Wishes are nice, too bad they rarely happen.

Balboos:

This was my first (mental) comment when I saw the title of the article. MS is every more eager to live up to that old saw:

"We're Micrsoft. We don't give a damn. We don't have to."

Having played with Ubuntu in the run-from-CD mode, I can conclude that most business/office users could get buy on it rather well (if not substantially better than) they do with Windows of any vintage.

technet oldschool:

I am a Window user, and have been so for a long time, However, after using Vista now for about a month, the penguin is looing very tempting. What a slow POJ.

FrostBird:

Several years ago, Linux would have been a bad bussiness advice, usually after considering the cost of training the users.
But with sofware like OpenOffice.org and the gui for distros like Ubuntu, the things that usually hold Linux are the work for/inexperience of sysadmins (mostly small companies) or cost for reworking own software (large companies).
I wonder for how many bosses these last two will no longer be an issue after learning the cost for training/rewriting neccesary for this radically new system.
Ofcourse, it's only to be decided after the write-off of the current systems. In a couple of years perhaps. And then we will have to see the battle between SP1 and the new child of Ubuntu.

adam:

Go Linux!

starcrusade:

If you read the whole article it says that Dell will continue to provide models with Windows XP into this summer. Funny how you laude Dell when they are stopping sales months before Microsoft is telling them they won't be providing XP anymore.

Also Vista OEM licenses are downgradeable which means that if you get a pc with Vista Business (or ultimate) on it you can go ahead and re-install it with XP Pro and it is fully legal. I might add that these rights go all the way down to Windows NT 3.5.1.

Last I checked I can't go out and buy a 1993 Ford F-150 straight from the factory, this is no different, Microsoft is just keeping their factory lines as clean as possible, it saves them money this way.

Ed T:

While you are correct that you can downgrade to xp, you MUST format the drive, then use a reinstallation cd, and you also may need to make a bios change on SATA drives. Then also, you will need to get the XP drivers for your pc or laptop, which are NOT on the drivers cd's anymore that come with your system, they only give you Vista drivers now, doesn't that suck!!

Chrisk:

Always use reference drivers if possible. Vendors in general make few or no changes, never update and add complexity to their drivers. I never bother with vendor drivers unless the chipset for the device is actually manufactured by the vender (a lot of sony products).

XP'ated:

With much trepidation, I followed the instructions for the Toshiba Vista-to-XP "downgrade" for my Satellite Pro Laptop. Disks were supplied with the laptop (thankfully). It worked! The laptop works, fantastically well. It had so much extra performance just to try to make Vista look good. Now with XP it flies. Gone are the slow boots and shut downs. Back is clean simple XP. All functionality is maintained. The only thing missing from the XP version was a completely crazy software duplication of the the function buttons that cluttered the upper display (Toshiba, why on earth?) in VISTA.

I am a keen application sofware user but not what you would call a geek. I think that an operating system should be like an engine management system in a car. Invisible. Unconditionally reliable. VISTA took over the foreground and drove me nuts. I just wanted to use my programs to do some work.

raindog:

I don't remember seeing the [northern] reference to summer when I first read this article, (I could be wrong) however the later sentences suggest XP availability this calendar year which would be well into APC summertime.

Funny you compare Microsoft with Ford US who are somehow having trouble turning a buck after totally ignoring the wants and needs of their market-place. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

USA wants rear drive sedans and yet Ford wont sell a decent 4 Door RWD, go figure! Toyota here in Aus have tried to crack the large sedan market for a decade but keep thrusting up FWDs that no one wants, go figure! Looks like Microsoft is hell bent on emulating the US auto makers.

Ford Aus is no stranger to having rude Americans thrust their will onto the local marketplace and every-time they have done this, sales have dropped. Every time consumer choice returns sales improve.

To put your Microsoft/Ford model into a more Vista like analogy, imagine if you went to buy your 07 F-150 and were told it has been replaced by the overblown F-650 complete with a F-650 price tag, fuel economy, truck performance etc. Are you going to remain brand loyal or are the competitors suddenly looking a lot more attractive. In those terms a run-out model 06 F-150 would be looking pretty darn attractive. XP is that 06 model!

Consumers dont give two shakes about clean factory lines, they want value for money!!

fyrfytrhodge:

"Rude Amnericans?" typical quip from a jealous Aussie. I noticed you metioned three companies (Microsoft, Ford, Toyota)all of which you apparently rely on "down under" for goods and services, but none of which is Australian. Get a real economy that actually produces something, then you can bitch and moan. Until then, "beggars can't be choosers."

guvna:

Dude, typical dumb, uninformed American attitude.

Jealous? you are joking right?

Hey, is Russia a state of the USA? Your president is an imbecile, he doesnt even know left from right. And you brainiacs actually voted for him!!

Mate that brain cell of yours must be real lonely up there without any others to keep it company.

Next time you want to display your idiocy to the world do it on a Seppo site.

By the way we call you guys Seppos as you are like septic tanks. Full of sh...

USAguy:

You are correct in your comparison using Ford and Microsft.
Microsoft is shoving Vista down our throat. Bad idea for Microsoft, people like options! Vista has major compatability issues, Microsoft has to address these issues. Also Vista is a ploy to force consumers to upgrade hardware to run Vista. Microsoft and computer manufactures are in bed with each other. If all other OS's are phased out we have to upgrade hardware too. It's about money!! Greed!!!
You are correct about Bushy, he is an embecile. See if you can spell it correctly next time, genius Aussie!! Don't forget, with the help of the idiots that voted for him in this country, Bushy also cheated to get elected both times!!!
Don't ever slam American know-how or ingenuity. I've been around a long time and have yet to see much of anything that says Made in Australia!!! What brand of vehicle, computer, ets is designed and manufactured in Australia?? None!!! If Bushy sanctioned Australia that country would all but cease to exist as you know it today. No more products from America, oh no, what will us Aussies do now?? Now who's the Seppo, you are!!

HC:

Typical stupid americans, "You are correct about Bushy, he is an embecile. See if you can spell it correctly next time, genius Aussie!!"

How exactly do you spell Imbecile??

Ooooh th irony, but you yanks wont get that!!!

Some guy from the US:

What the hell man? Just because a few people rip on you (or like the example you cited, can't spell) doesn't mean that every American is stupid or likes Bush (most Americans don't vote actually, and we aren't required to). Relax.

Nay:

SEE WHAT VISTA IS DOING! ITS PITTING US ALL AGAINST EACH OTHER! IT WANTS US TO FIGHT! I said my goodbyes to windows a few months ago and i know not everyone is ready for linux or other alternatives, but just because microsoft isnt giving consumers choice anymore (soon) doesnt mean you have to choose microsoft. Either way i hate vista that much any program that doesnt run in wine i use in a xp vm.

An Aussie:

You yanks would still be in the stone age if it
wasn't for Aussie Inventions and Firsts like:

Aircraft Wing Theory (William Hargrave - 1894)
Refrigeration (James Harrison - 1850)
The antibiotic use of Penicillin (Howard Florey - 1939)
The car's differential (David Shearer - 1897)
Variable ratio rack and pinion steering (Arthur Bishop - 1970)
Black-box flight recorder (Dr David Warren - 1958)
Aircraft Escape Slide & Raft (Jack Grant -1965)
Heart Pacemaker - (Sydney's Crown Street Women's Hospital - 1926)
Cochlear implant (Professor Graeme Clark - 1978)- bionic ear
Atomic Absorption Spectrometer (Alan Walsh - 1952)
Gene Shears (Wayne Gerlach - 1986)
X-ray crystallography (William and Lawrence Bragg - 1916)
CR39 - first plastic spectacle lenses (SOLA - 1960)
Combine Harvester (Hugh Victor McKay - 1882)
Thust Bearing (George Michell - 1905) low-friction bearing for thrust shafts
Flotation Process for seperating minerals from rocks (Charles Potter -1901)
Electric Drill (Arthur James - 1889)
Process for permanently creasing fabric (Arthur Farnworth -1957)
Telephane (Henry Sutton - 1885) Television Precurser
First feature length film (The Story of the Kelly Gang - 1906)
Pilotless jet aeroplane - Jindivik (1952)
Solar Water Heater (CSIRO - 1952)
Paper Notepad (J Birchall - 1902)
Disposable Latex Gloves (Ansell - 1945)
Orthodontics (Percy Begg -1940)
World's first IVF pregnancy (Monash University - 1973)
World’s first 'frozen embryo' baby born (1984)
Synroc for storing radioactive waste (Ted Ringwood - 1978)
Earth leakage circuit breaker (Gerard Industries - 1981)
Parkes Radio telescope relays television images of first moon landing across the globe (1969)
Physiotherapy (Sister ElizabethKenny - 1930)
Aspirin in tablet form (George Nicholas - 1915)
Lithium use as antidepressant (Dr John Cade - 1948)
Relenza - worlds first ant-flu drug (1996)
Spray-on-skin for burns victims (Dr Fiona Wood - 2002)
Helicobacter pylori identified as the cause of duodenal ulcers (Barry Marshal - 1983)
Wine Cask (Thomas Angove - 1965) flexible bag inside a box for wine
Super Sopper for drying the surface of wet sports fields (Gordon Withnall - 1974)
Secret Ballot System for casting votes (Henry Chapman - 1855)
Instant Boiling Water Heater (Zip - 1975)
Teleprinter (Donald Murray - 1903) for recording telegraph messages on paper tape
Petrol Engined Lawn Mower - Victa - 1930
Record Changer (Eric Waterworth - 1925)
Castors (George Shepherd - 1946)
Flying doctor service (1928)
Winged keel (Ben Lexcen - 1983)
Dual Flush Toilet (Bruce Thompson - 1980)
and finally
Vegemite - Dr Cyril Callister - 1923

Tony Brown:

Wow:)What an answer "An Aussie" I knew Australians
were responsible for a lot of good stuff but I didn't
realise it was so much :):):):):)
Good onya mate for sticking up for us.

Guroove:

Not to steer too far from the point, manufacturing cars and selling software are drastically different. There is no special tooling needed to pump out copies of XP that aren't needed in producing copies of Vista. The software already exists, and the media it goes on is exactly the same as the media Vista goes on. Manufacturing of motor vehicles requires special machinery for making individual parts, and whole assembly lines need to be dismantled and reconfigured for producing different vehicles. Given that there still is a demand for XP, Microsoft could stand to lose a few potential customers with this move.

GetEducatedNOW:

The media it goes on is not the same; XP is a CD and Vista is on a DVD... Not to be overly critical of your comment or anything. Probably a stupid point that I should have passed on mentioning.
It's still bs that MS is stuffing this down our throats - especially with the DRM mess tied into this OS. http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista We're getting snowballed here, people. Take a stand before you get stood on!! The time is NOW.

Ben Gordon:

There are plenty of small to medium PC vendors who will happily sell you a PC with NO operating system installed!

Hint: Linux is free and free of DRM and spyware!

wysiwyg1988:

I am not a huge MS fan, but they are the 800 lb gorilla that we all have to deal with.

Here is an idea. Buy licenses for XP now. Later on, order systems with no OS.

The downside is that once MS stops producing XP, shortly thereafter, there will be no patches, no service packs, no drivers.....you get the picture.

I like XP, but eventually, MS will force us to change. It is the MS way. They know what we need....even if we don't.

raindog:

Good luck getting that 800lb gorilla to provide XP product activation after it has declared the product obsolete, same apples for those users attempting to back-grade to XP from a Vista License.

The Genuine Advantage they told you was to your advantage is about to bite. There will soon be no legal way to get XP fired up on new boxes.

georgiaman:

Yes you can! Just turn off the WGA Tool

Paul:

How do I activate my new copy of XP please? MS says its already activated.

paul66766:

activation... HA, I laught at your
activation, don't you know there are
ways around that, and that also applies to Vista...

raindog:

One little word you missed there kiddies - "legally".

you can feel as proud as you wish, after all downloading is such a skill!

In the world of reality away from kids computers in dank bedrooms, illegal hacking of software, or any non compliance with its T&C is not a clever idea.

load your patches and cracks on 50 business machines in a commercial environment then report back how your getting along, will you.

Nothing new to be seen here!

JR_DK:

Somehow, the governments ought to change the rules, so that products is "free" when a company like MS, ends selling it.
In other words: It should be illegal for companies to push anything down anybodys throat!

That_guy:

The thing is, MS will only discontinue OEM licenses. If you buy your copies from the store, there's no problem activating it, even in 20 years!

FROGZLEG:

MS CANNOT FORCE PEOPLE TO BUY JUNK THEY SELL,
THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS. HOPE THIS IS THE END OF
MICROSOFT!

Brandon:

I agree with you, this is the definatly the end of microsoft, unless if they some how in the future create a xp-2 or something better
OTHER WISE IF THAT people aint gonna buy that piece of shit vista, their sales will drop and they WILL BE forced out of business due to lack of sales

patrick:

I am switching from win98se to vista and I do not have a clue how to use it.I tried for hours tying to figure it out and I came to the conclusion that I am going to have to go to school to learn how to use my computer.I went looking for XP BUT NO ONE HAS IT ANY MORE.Does microsoft not no that I represent a huge consumer base.I am sending my computer back for a refund only because I do not no how to use Vista.I hope Apple has an easier os...Patrick Donnelly,Ontario,Canada.

Benjamin Kreuter:

"Last I checked I can't go out and buy a 1993 Ford F-150 straight from the factory, this is no different, Microsoft is just keeping their factory lines as clean as possible, it saves them money this way."

I wasn't aware that somebody had to assemble each individual copy of Windows that is sold. What factory line?

Microsoft just doesn't want XP around anymore. Some corporate decision, probably computed that it would save them a bunch of money. Too bad if consumers get screwed by it, and forced to buy something they clearly don't want to buy.

FG:

Microsoft will learn you cannot force people to buy what they do not want . if microsoft wants to test the publics waters they will see macs and linux walk all over them like never before .Doesnt matter if they dont want xp around anymore the public does and thats all that matters , sell what people want to buy or close up shop their choice . isnt very many companies or people going to shell out for new pc's and upgrades just to spend this over bloated ammount for a resource hungry OS that nobody needs or wants . all the big pc retailors will move to linux from this , everybody will watch and see this happen .

barberb:

keep their factory lines as clean as possible? i think your forgetting that with PC retailers microsoft has no factory lines! they simply license copies of the OS and the manufacturers typically create their install cd's including drivers and third party apps.

this is also a misnomer because discs arent terribly expensive to produce either. most of the cost of their OS comes from the software devolopment.

ultimatly, theyre not trying to save money on costs, but rather use their monopoly power to extract more income from the market. being that vista's pricepoint is considerably higher than XP ever was.

oldapache:

In all its flavors, Vista has become just another example of corporate driven vision instead of market driven common sense. My clients will continue to ask for XP Pro for SOHO because they cannot use their value-added software apps on the newest Microsoft toaster!

The vision of being all-for-everyone has taken Microsoft down the slippery slope of idiocy. Instead of guiding the market with products that continue to improve existing computing needs, we get the Gates version of computopia. Clients really don't care how the OS does its job as long as their apps don't crap out on a new machine.

As for me and my clients, I see an Apple shaped piece of fruit in our future.

Richard:

IBM, with Micro Channel Architecture? It only took them several years before they realised their mistake. And by that time, life and the rest of the PC business had passed them by.

Every company that consistantly refues to work inside the customer interest bubble will eventually fail. We as consumers must hold their feet to the fire so to speak, and demand better from the behemoths who take our money gleefully, then chastize us for wanting the products we buy to function as we were told they would perform.

Chuck Whealton:

I'd have to agree with you that Microsoft is ignoring the wishes of the marketplace on this one.

I think there's a lot of legitimate resistance to Vista.

I'll continue using my Macintosh with OS/X, and I'll use whatever XP systems I have until I can't use them any longer. Later this year, I'll be building a MythTV system versus purchasing a Microsoft Media Center equivelant.

I will not run out and purchase Vista for no good reason.

Microsoft has a lot of good products with some really good features. Unfortunately, this smacks of strong arming consumers into using something that (apparently) a good number of us don't really want.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

Gary:

I just wanted to say that I have XP Pro on a PC and may use it occasionally till it is not supproted any longer. When that happens I will move to the Mac exclusivly. I have been using a Macbook Pro for a year and am very pleased, actually more than pleased, and will not miss Windows at all. The cost of the Mac OS is cheaper, more secure, and has more of a program bundle at no additional cost, not like Microsoft (4 versions of vista and al of the false advertising to promote it when the basic is lucky to turn on the machine!), where every thing costs a small fortune. I worked in the cmputer field 25 years and am more tha pleased to dump Microsoft, and use a real Operating system that hasn't been stolen from another company which I now intend to use exclusivly.

Thanks for your time
Gary

Jim B:

Folks the first post in this list says it all nicely....You and I, the consumer, end user, IT guy, etc are being forced into change by Microsoft.

I for one think Vista is no great improvements over XP Pro, in fact it is worse.

These are a FEW of MY REASONS (Note that I said MY....not YOURS although you may have the same reasons). You may be one of those who love Vista and that is ok too...I don't and that is ok as well.

Here we go:

4 levels of Vista that are outrageously over priced.

If I wanted to run Vista, I'd need to add 512MB ram on my system to get to a gig so it will run half way decent.( no it does not run well on 512MB, I've tried it)

I'd need to change from my 128MB AGP to a PCI-E card.....Oh wait I'll need to change the mother board too...Yeah these are the "Moderate Hardware Requirements" they mentioned in the story...Hm...

I'll have to ditch my SB Audigy Gamer sound card, or run "The Patch" to have sound from some games again..


I'll also need to make sure that the drivers are made for Vista

The list goes on...

For the SIMPLE THINGS....

Start does not say start, it is a cuite little ball. I have clients that are 70+ who are just now getting into computers and it is "click on that little ball thingy"....Ah..Yeah that makes sense..

When you go to turn the machine off, there is no "Turn Off"....NO no not that power button looking icon...you are supposed to know that there is a little arrow on the lower left of the menu, that if you mouse over you'll get a menu....Very intuitive for those who have not played around with a computer much

Once you make a dial-up connection, how do you change it's name....Hm....

Bottom Line, We are being forced to adopt yet another OS. I can not speak for you but I really don't want or need Vista. It does not do anything that I can not do now but requires more to do what I do now....Huh?? How does that work ??

DJ:

This last weekend I took time to upgrade my mothers computer to a 3.0 p4 w/ 1 gig of ram. While upgrading I mentioned the machine was ready for Vista if she wanted the upgrade from XP Pro. I was met with such resistance and complete disdain for Vista I thought I was speaking to a 30 year old... she is 74, gets here monthly PCMag and actively sells on Ebay. While upgrading her I forgot how fast XP ran with SP1 before we finally patched her to SP2.

Long story short - my personal laptop recently got a shot of spyware that Kaspersky couldn't get rid of (which is my final straw) and I was forced to install a fresh OS. Looking back I figured I would install XP Pro up to SP1 and then firewall, spyware and virus protection. All went well with the install until I got to the ATI video drivers, they wanted net 2.0. No problem I was used to upgrading to it since our company software also requires the 2.0 infustructure. Oh but wait, looks like I need to agree to WGA then get MS downloader 3.0 then get Net 2.0 then install the ATI video drivers. So my idea of running XP Pro SP1 as though nothing has changed with my computer needs was quickly brought to light.

Just like Stephen King's short story/movie the Langoliers where a few seconds into the past things start to decay... anything less than XP Pro SP2 at this point leaves one helpless with semi-new software installations. We may all wish that XP is going to be our saviour for years to come (with blackmarket updates) the reality is that we all must move forward. We are at a very critical juncture with Apple potentially finding a revenue stream in its OS versus solely on its Ipods, Ubuntu taking a legitimate shot at a user friendly OS that covers all basic computer needs and MS losing its strangle hold with a poor OS and no Ace in the hole.

IMO any thing less than XP SP2 renders a computer OS to mundane computer tasks or 'old' software solutions... at this point there is no reason why a user shouldn't take the plunge and move to Apple or better yet Fiesty Fawn (Ubuntu or Kubuntu)and progress versus decay.

Microsoft will not let you get away with using XP longer than it wants you to.

foxman362:

Well,i know custom pc dudes will still have xp still
and no matter what as long programs does required such as games.But i'm not much fan for vista anyway becuase i only understand xp becuase i'm so use to xp ways but they still still need another windows os runs like xp and vista with
same type but i like see another xp out there and alot people don't understand vista very it's very too odd and i know i have telk to my friends and alot them don't like vista becuase it's os the way it is and it's like old xp.I heard from one pc rumor at flea market i go to during summer months but somebody told me they going be another windows os in 2008 i don't know if it's true or not thats what i heard from pc seller dude told me while back during summer months.

webmonkey44:

I know my readings that Vista still has too many compatibility issues still. When I finally upgrade my machine, I's prefer to have XP rather than Vista if possible.

rcbmrb:

the only way to get xp is for public to demand it by refusing to have Vista but public has o ability to stick together

theotheros:

Here's another solution.

http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/

http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=14

Peter Houppermans:

Windows Vista, from the company that brought you edlin.

That's not for the new generation, I think, but you can examine what they foisted upon unsuspecting end users in the 80s because it is STILL part of Windows. Oh yes, get to a Vista command line and there it is..

I know that new Unix users will immediately point at vi, but that is at least useful :-)

Eric:

I'm sorry if you can't figure edlin out. It is actually quite easy to use and beats the hell out of copy con.

Now, on the other hand, Vista is horrid, memmoryhogging crap that can't beat anything, even with a boost.

Michael Hearne:

I thought you must be kidding, so I switched over to a win2k machine, brought up a prompt and typed "edlin test.txt".

You are incredibly correct! That goes back to what, DOS 2?

I switched to Linux years ago, but I keep a Windows machine alive to run old hardware that just won't work with Linux.

Linux also has a line editor (ed) but I don't know anyone who would use it, rather than vim.

Thanks for that heads up, this generation really wouldn't get it. There was a time, before graphics, that every single thing had to be done by hand.

//mh

Rhonald:

Well, I know all these things are common with MS, it's long time i'm in Open Source... I don't have such problems.

Have nice time with Vista craps.

Adios.

OpenSource is for Experts:

I think that the whole open source vs. consumers debate has been beaten to death by reviews by different websites. Take [H]ard|OCP's recent 30 day trial of Ubuntu for an example of a real world attempt.

I have installed it, and I actually like it, but its not "easy" 100%. Troubleshooting it is much more complicated for a novice user (80%+ of consumers), and I am no novice. Slowly am I getting used to it, but things like games which are a big part of consumers are not well supported.

If open source OS's like Linux are to be adopted there needs to be a simple and easy way to have them use everything they need with little or no hassle.

As for XP vs. Vista. Well I am sure that everyone knows that the issue with most XP and Vista installs are NOT related to the OS, but to the browsing habits and application that each consumer installs on their OS. Yes Vista isn't smooth IMHO. XP isn't without its quirks tho, lets not kid ourselves.

Cheers,

Slam Dunk:

I tried vista and I didn't like it for 3 reasons:

1. I tried connecting to my wireless network and it says that the network does not meet the requirements of the system. Try sticking with the TCIP drivers that were still using guys.

2. I could not install my Radion 9200 video catalyst drivers. No way would it let me put them in (most latest ones for it) resulting that i could not play some of my games when i know it runs it. i get MS crappy compatible drivers remaining in there after I run the installer and it says that it was successfully installed.

3. The bloody thing would not let me access my floppy drive. the device manager says it was working properly but it would not put it in the drives listing with the local HD's.

Think they should go back to the drawing board on this one

Fixing!:

1. What are your network requirements? I installed vista with a wireless adapter and a Linksys 54G router.

2. Install Catalyst 7.3 drivers, but you need to Uninstall the old ones and software completely before you install the new ones.

3. Test the floppy drive with a bootable disk and see if it works out side of windows. Delete the drive from device manager and reboot and re detect if you can boot from it out side of windows.

Just another IT guy:

I guess its all a matter of perspective. Im running a mid-powered 64-bit rig, and tried Vista ultimate when it launched. It installed clean, updated clean, and i have yet to have a single compatibility issue. Being in IT my only drawback to Vista would have to be it REALLY has high requirements in terms of hardware.

Dr_Code:

I kicked the habit. I no longer game. Linux does what I want it to, and does it well, but It is difficult to game on....even with Cedega.

No, Linux is not for everyone, nor is XP, nor is Vista, nor is the DOS that runs much of the commerce (at store level) that we all know and love.

It is about money. The stores bought their computers, their proprietary software to run it, and it costs a lot to change that software, and convert the data. Vista is new, there are driver issues. Linux is old, there are still driver issues. Sure it's Open Source, so in theory, you can fix them. The reality, is you are left to someone...similar to Microsoft, who is more knowledgeable about code than you to re-code something to make it work.

Companies want your money, we don't want to part with it. Linux, Microsoft, Apple. They are a horse apiece. It doesn't matter what company made it, what OS it is. If it does what you want it to – great. If it doesn't continue the search to something else, and it'll be a cold day when they all seamlessly talk to each other.

Pick your poison, thats computing.

Max:

hahahahaha... Microsoft fails at life again. Its so hard to have other cd's laying around... Windows XP Pro Home anything or even Linux cd's Ubuntu or Mandriva are all great. The only way you will make vista not be big is to not use it if you buy a pc with it on it... Put something else on it... hell if your gonna buy a computer freaking have a friend build it for you instead**

MetKiller Joe:

I don't think that the issues with Vista have evaded the sight of Microsoft. The problems with Vista are not just in the software, but in the system and management that created it.

Vista was created by a dying beast, Microsoft, that sealed its fate by creating Vista.

Reading JUST these comments I can see many issues with Vista:

1) Drivers don't work with OS
2) Slow
3) Inefficient coding of Vista makes it clunky

I have my own complaints about the OS that would easily make more than 10 other major turn downs. It seems like the knowledgeable people have already figured out that this OS is a bad thing, and I'm glad because when I installed the beta for the first time I said to myself, "Ok, first things first, get the eye candy out of the way," and what does one get? An OS that does exactly what it promised: bring everything that is new in the tech world to the consumer. Of course, who cares about whether it runs smoothe or if they meet anybodies expectations?

Microsoft has again stuffed everything the could, and in doing so they have crapped all over the old phrase, "Quality is better than quantity".

Fred Dunn:

Intel like Microsoft "know what their users want whether they want it or not." and was about to force PC & Server users to Itanium (not compatible with x86) until AMD forced their hand with the Athlon64 and Opteron which are 64 bit compatible as well as x86 compatible.
The ONLY thing I see in Vista Business that I like is that the TCP/IP stack is much faster than that in XP, but they could have upgraded XP's stack. Other than that Vista has no performance gains on XP and requires a very hefty system to work on.
MS just screwed the chute on this one. They were running SO far behind in it's development that it left out the major upgrades such as WinFS and Native driver support for legacy devices. So they just put a hard drop dead release date on it and put it out there "half dressed".
I may wind up with a Vista system but only after support for Windows XP is totally exhausted. Even then I am going to consider decent alternatives such as Novell's SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED) ver 10 or higher. SLED look and feels more like XP than does Vista and it doesn't require near the resources but has most of the "eye candy" that Vista has. If I can find an OS abstraction tool that will let me run my more expensive Windows apps on it I'll probably go with it.
Mind you that I am not a "'nix nut" and don't preach the virtues of open source of Linux but Microsoft really screwed up with Vista, in particular the pricing.

null:

Vista is, in my opinion, a horrible excuse for an operating system. I had better luck with Windows ME! I got a free copy of Vista through my university's MSDNAA program. I had a spare hard drive laying around, so I installed it in my machine and installed Vista on it with the sole intention that if I wanted to use Vista, I would set that drive as the default boot device in the BIOS. Little did I know, that Vista, without asking, installs itself as a dual boot OS when it detected my XP install. I tried Vista, I hated it, so I went to use the drive as something else, the only problem is that when I restarted after removing the Vista drive, I got a BSOD. Seems Vista's bootloader sets itself up by default and I have to keep the drive in there just to make my machine boot. The only solution I can find on technet is a format/reinstall. That's just freaking lame. I hope that when they stop supporting XP that they'll do away with the WGA so that I can reinstall when Vista screws my machine up again.

Anonymous Techie:

1. Remove vista hard drive.
2. Insert windows XP cd and go to the recovery console (if your CD doesn't have that, boot into windows and make the boot disks)
3. At the recovery console, type fixmbr

For future reference, this was your fault. If you install ANY OS onto a secondary hard drive, it has to install its bootloader onto the primary hard drive.

hdgbuhaStank:

Sorry but this won't work once you have installed service pack 2. The original disc will advise you that you are using a different version of Windows.

Psycho:

just boot from the original xp install cd

select the repair option(the second one where you are droped to an comand line shell)

type fixmbr
type y


maybe you have to type fixmbr c: (not sure about it though ;) )

congratz you are ready to trash vista

Allen M:

Bought a laptop for a friend with Vista, looked for XP but of course can't buy them anymore. Spent all night with my friend trying just to bring vista up. keep crashing and would just over and over come up with DOS like pages...whats wrong with these people...they have more money than god and they come up with Vista? Interesting to read about the drivers and all the other comments, but for people who are not computer geeks we just want a program that works. If Microsoft wants more money, I would be just for the government to give them billions of tax breaks..just to leave XP alone. God I hate Microsoft!

davidson:

To which my rsponse is...

I went here
http://www.opensuse.org/
and installed v10.2

Interestingly enough, I didn't have to scrap the 1Ghz Athlon, it works quite well with this o/s, which I would have to say is "Vista-like" only it actually works. All hardware was detected and I've been trying to break it without success.

Yes there is a learning curve, but every aspect has had returns, rather than problems or ridiculous hinderances under the guise of "security".

Vista is not an option. What it will do for me is migrate me away from Microsoft completely. (And finally, yes I am aware of the Microsoft - Novell issues).

Jack Tramiel:

You should have held on to you STE. It's network and Internet capable, and the OS rsides in ROM. Pretty much bullet proof...!
Compatibility is a bonus being a Sixteen Thirty two bit Enhanced platform.
AMD and Intel?
Try Motorola and never look back!
Cheers
Jack

FatRakoon:

LOL
Thats what I have done.
My TT is stock, but has 10MB+16MB RAM.
My Falcon has 14MB RAM, and is awaiting the arrival of my CT63 to take it to a 90MHZ 060
and runs with a 512MB and a 4GB CF Cards on a CF-IDE Adapter internal, and 2x4GB + 2xCDRW SCSI externals ( Housed in a PC Case )
And I am running Magic 6.2 and Jinnee 2.5 as my O/S of choice.

I would never do without.

If you really are "THE" Mrs Jack Tramiel, then I would like to say many things to you, but then Im sure that you have probably heard them all.

You are quite simply a dick. You had the chance of turning the computer world completely on its head and making the Atari what PCs of today are, but instead you once again dicked up!

Rip The Jacker:

Until linux starts coming pre-installed on machines, it will lose out to anything microsoft has. Unless you are a cpsc, IT, or IS major, you will grow up on, learn, and therefore, use any POS OS that microsoft says is the newest and safest. It is a shame but it is also the truth. Id bet over 85% of computer savy americans dont even know waht linux is.

Realist Computer Tech:

People are dumb.

I'm using Vista on both my 6-month old laptop and my 3-year old home system - replaced XP Pro on both of them. It runs better than XP on both of them.

All my software runs, and the one (1) that didn't run 100% is quickly gaining Vista compatability from the shareware author.

When Windows 9X came along, people whined about not having the control they had in DOS and 3.1, and cried that Microsoft wasn't going to support 3.1 any more.

When Windows 2000 came along, people freaked out becuase alot of their dumpy Windows 95 apps wouldn't run on it, and cried that MS wasn't supporting 95 any more.

Then XP - people complained that it looked like a kids toy, and that it was slower, etc. Cried it wouldn't run on their now 8 year old computers, and that MS wasn't supporting Win98 anymore.

Now what's happening this time?

No surprises here. And I won't be surprised when in another 5 years (yes XP is FIVE YEARS OLD), when the next Windows comes out, how people cry that XP isn't supported any more, and that the new OS doesn't run on their old computer, and that it's slower, and doesn't have any more usful features, blah blah blah.

If you don't like Windows, DON'T USE IT.

If your computer does what you want, and you don't need anything more, DON'T UPGRADE!

But don't expect the newest software and hardware to run on it 5-8 years after you bought it, and don't expect to be able to easily get replacement parts when it breaks.

Welcome to the world of personal computers.

Space:

1. Vista su**s

Vista is limiting and crippling software and hardware that people use to make monay ... so they will avoid Vista as long as they can. That is bad for M$ and good 4 all uf us.

I do not use bloatware that comes preinstalled with Windows ( XP, VISTA ). I use serious software that have updates once in one or two uears. So compatibility IS the KEY feature for me.

DOS was crap, but worked good and was reliable. Windows 1.x - 3.x was PURE CRAP. ANYTHING was better than it. Windows 95 beta was good, but came with NO DOS SUPPORT except for the buggy dos box and 100% compatibel boot menu :)
1995 year was the best year for M$ to cut support for DOS and take off to the future.
Win95 - Win98se was excelent for the users. Not so good for the IT.
Windows Millenium was CRAP.
Windows 2000 was good at the time as much as crappy NT kernel can be good. Important an expensive hardware and software DID NOT WORK ON IT and chould not be made to work because NT kernel lacked the features needed for certain real time apps.
Windows XP was slow, upto 15% compared to the win2000, but did have sort of emulator for the old win9x-winME apps. And hardware manufactures learned how to EXPLOIT the windwos NT architecture to allow real time hardware to work on crappy NT kernel. Vista is ... awwww

Yes, Windows XP is FIVE YEARS OLD, but it is mature and works just fine. It can be tweaked to work better, not to need expensive firewall and antivirus software and buggy automatic updates that did download 80% of the malware for the last 5 years. I say people will stick to the XP for the years to come. And the software industry will stick to the people.

Related to Vista...

I did saw Aero and it did remind me on OSX and some older computers that did have hardware accelerated GUI back in the mid '90.

Vista brings nothing realy new. It just brings new to Windows ONLY users.

More important is what it takes away.
So, I chose NOT to Vista, and You will chose soon.

Ryan:

I totally agree with realist, I work as a computer technician and I'm constantly faced with whining customers who cant run OLD software or OLD hardware with the LATEST o/s. Duh!!!

Sure, your 5 yr old PC will probably struggle to run Vista well without upgrades, but how often do older products/parts in any industry keep up with the performance of their latest equivalents?? Not often I assure you. But we could talk about this forever....

Honestly, does anyone seriously think that PC's have gotten worse as time has gone on? I've been using PC's for about 15 years, since the age of dos, now im using vista. And yes dos was great for what everyone was doing with PCs back then. But then this thing called progress happened and people wanted more out of their pc's.

They wanted them to be "user friendly", have more functionallity etc. So the age of windows came to us. This wasnt without problems of course, same old thing - old pcs, new s/w.

Sure, ive had issues with some of my OLDER equipment, VGA card, oc utils etc, but eventually they worked, because the companies who made them finally got around to supporting the latest o/s.

I didnt expect this as a matter of course, as argued earlier, i am using equipment which is bout 2-3yrs old and i had problems, which was not to my suprise.
Now Vista actually runs about 25% faster than XP, so go figure that!

People complain that it takes more power to run, uses more cpu time etc. So what? Obviously its going to be a heavier product if it includes more functionality - Thats why they make better and faster products for us to use, so even if the cpu usage in idle is up, you shouldnt need it as much, as the power you should have should out-weigh that, resulting in no loss in performance - and quite possibly, even better performance!!!

And if you dont want to use the latest stuff or the more functionality... DON'T !! - You cant tell me that you can do everything in dos or 98 that you can do in xp/vista!

On the argument of effeciency - Can we effectively get a new product to work its best if it has to support older products as well as newer ones? Sureley this limits how effecient our products will be?

But this is what companies like MS are forced to do, as most people refuse to let go of their ancient equipment because "it has been really good to me" or "i just dont need all that extra zing.." etc, etc. So we get slightly imperfect software because of it. If you are happy with what you have then there should be no issue because you wont be upgrading, right?!

I realise that not everyone has the cash to upgrade everything when they buy a system, im in that same boat, but should that hold back technology? No. I should also point out that pcs and peripherals have become incredibly cheap for what they are these days - its not like you have to spend $5000AU to get a new pc every 3-5 years like we used to.

And this would be partially due to the fact that more people are using them now compared to what they used to, and they are doing more with them too.

This is because the products are now alot more attractive and inviting for people to use - Try selling a dos based system to a senior citizen or first time user, and see how much use they get out of it!!!
Somehow XP and Vista seem to be the better option there :)

The main reason people dont like vista is because of older hardware/software support or lack there of. So get new ones. Problem solved. If you dont want to, persist with your old stuff, you may eventually get it working by the time the next o/s is released!!

To those who think that PC's have gotten worse, perhaps you should stick to the older machines of which you love so much, but dont expect to see any serious gamers or serious corporations there with you !!

I reckon if you arent prepared to keep up, get off the bandwagon and stop whinging!!!!

Fred Nerk:

Telling people that they should stop whinging and get on with it - you are a sheep. I agree that people are being strongarmed into it, and they have the right to whinge because they don't get a choice. They should have a choice. We choose from many different cars, shops, clothes etc - but only one OS? Go figure.

Glad I gave up gaming (except the odd little old DOS game, played in DOSbox), it's all getting old, sad and tired.

Martin:

I really don't know You, but I wonder what kind of technician are you (if any), because waht you stated it's simply unreal.

I'm not talking of "good ol' machine since the nineties", I will talk of my two personal machines:

1) 3.0 GHZ CPU, 2Gigs of RAM, NVidia Geforce 7600 with 512Megs of VRAM on an Intel Motherboard that supports dual channeling.

2) Core 2 Duo E6400, 2Gigs of RAM, NVidia GeForce 8800 with 614Megs of VRAM, Motherboard eVGA and an X-Fi soundboard.

I'm a software developer and a gamer, so I tend to keep up the pace in both hardware and software. I have to. It's my job and my hobbie.

I've been developing software since the days of DOS 3.2, so I have some experience in computing, and yes, I've been technician and systems administrator.

Referencial background layed, so lets get to what really matters:

I Build the second machine with Vista in mind, I have previously installed it on the first, and I didn't liked the performance, so I rolled back to XP.

"Ok, its the CPU" I said, then I installed installed vista in the other one. Surprise: no decent drivers for the SPARKLING NEW HARDWARE (ok, vendor's fault, not microsoft's), after trying to get my hardware working properly (and I almost got it, since some drivers for my peripherics made in 2006 still doesn't exists and the video and audio drivers are so crippled that lets you as if you had half the hardware you purchased) I realized that the new machine ran vista like my old machine ran xp.

Ok, I could live with that (barely), but when it started to say 'NO' to every development tool (yes, microsoft's included) the situacion became just unbearable.

You have a 3.000$ machine, a 400$ OS and you can't do your job with it? and the other things the crappy OS lets you do are done slower than ever?

Man, it's not the outdated software, it's not the outdated hardware. It's that malfunctioning mock of an OS.

Yes, I concur with you on one thing, technology must not held back by the budget of the average user, WHEN IT WORKS, this Vista thing does NOT.

So I'm back with XP (best windows ever) and I can feel the performance of my old pc an the gigantic leap of performance of my new one (making me feel I got the most for my money). Sure, I missed the looks of vista, but there's windows blinds, TopDesk and Vista Transformation Pack if 'the looks' are that important for you.

And yes, Ubuntu and Fedora are starting to catch my attention more seriously.

ChillieBillie:

Martin, you could not be more correct. I don't wish to bash the company who gave us DOS, (even if they borrowed it from somebody)! I have yet to see any good reason to "Adopt a Dinasaur" even if it was the cool thing to do.

Each time I setup a computer with Linux I get a very good robust and secure system that is difficult to break. Ubuntu seems to be close to a Vista killer. The others are right behind and closing the gap.

I won't (quite) say vista sucks, but believe me every time I have to work on setting one up for a network I marvell how they changed the terminology and location for no particular reason.

Oh, did I mention how slow it is? You need x2 CPU speed, x2 memory, x10 hard drive... and then you get .5 performance. I guess it could be worse. Or could it?

Chrome Warrior:

Well another idiot commenting about old systems.

A) Australia has the highest generation of older people on earth.

B) With work choices most familes will never afford a new PC!

C) With Home loans repayements and rent many dont eat every day let alone keep up with software / pc / parts ect!

Every one has a choice just right now working choice , home buying is becoming a nightmare and computers are not for every ones choice either.

D)When all people can afford a home or rent well eat well and be educated well then they can upgrade well with money and the education to come to a sensible conclution with out insulting each other or flame wars.

Well have a nice day all :0
Chrome Warrior

SirBrainChild:

How can you just not upgrade when Microsoft stops releasing security patches for an OS it forces you to upgrade even if you prefer the old OS. The exception of course is if you wish to not connect to the Internet at all, which is why many users by a computer in the first place.

Furthermore, Microsoft carefully uses it various software: media player, Internet Explorer Windows, to leverage each other. (Anti-trust suits pop up for a reason.) For example, lets cite Windows 2000 as earlier mentioned. With security patches ending in 2010, and Microsoft conveniently making its software dependent on Windows XP and later, what choice does one have but to upgrade unless they wish to switch to open source alternatives altogether?

We have apple, and open source may get more user friendly. If switching to Linux isn't good for a particular user for whatever reason and Microsoft continues suppressing open source for the mas market, then he/she has a problem.

Bizquick:

Now I like XP and I cn agree with some of the arguments about how win98 ran faster than XP on a 1 gh machine with 256ram. but when XP was launched getting a computer with 512ram in a box was not that hard and not that expensive. Now MS did a terible job managing the dev's on hardware. I think vista looks great but the file copy thing kind of pissed me off. Taking forever to copy or move a file to a diffrent folder. But this OS just made companys that are trying to cycle 500+ computers on a 4 year cycle. just made them now have to do it in 2 years. cause of hardware and costs of the new hardware. MS just put the money into 2 pockets them for licensing. And it just made china and a bunch of other small countrys that make the parts for the new computers. I decided 2 months before vista launch I was going to move to mac for my next upgrade for the home computer. and everyone one I talk to know for home PC's I have made the same suggestion. maybe in 2009 I'll actualy go vista but I would like to see the computer parts to run it smoothly drop down in price.

Miami IT Guy:

You are so wrong. Probably your a home user. For regular home user that dont need to run business specific software probably Vista is a fit and with a new computer it will not hurt them.
But business users that have a bunch of computer to maintaine, an upgrade is not viable and YES Vista had has a lot of problems with drivers and software compatability, I have seen it myself, almost got a proyect go haywire because the customer adquiere new equipments for Vista and there ERP system was not compatible.
Just the fact that Microsoft is forcing business to get vista instead of XP in short of time is unreasonable. That without counting that most of the software creator (like Adobe and Intuit) the way there dealing of making there software compatible with Vista is by issuing a new version which you have to purchase. So at the end what is the end cost for the customer for upgrading??? Way to high, which for a consulting or implementation company (again business talk) is not competitive.

JLov:

Maybe it's time to try a mac.

Rob Greaves:

Boy, and to think 3 years ago i used to fret and sweat over Windows problems. i saw the light friends - get a Mac. Seriously ! Yes, there are still some patches that are applied to OS.X, but they 'take' every time with no failures, no hassle, no sweat .... and everything keeps on working. Run Office, and if ya want more, get the Intel chipped mac.

I can't believe the resistance Windows users have to mac.

raindog:

Give it a rest Rob, you and the rest of the MAC army. A wholesale single move replacement of windows is not possible for the majority of users.

Vista however has made it realistic to start planning alternative strategies for some that may be MAC.

Anyone that is simple enough to think what worked for them is the sole panacea for all is clueless at best and definitely a purveyor of misinformation and ill considered advice.

Rob Greaves:

Hey raindog. If you think Vista is a realistic alternative - good for you. The pity is that is barely matches the very first version of OS.X in it's functionality, let alone looks - but, the bottom line is that it is still very flawed because of the basic architecture and that there will constantly be problems as there were for Win '98; XP and now Vista.

The one thing I do agree upon is that there is no sole panacea to all 'puter issues, but honestly it does beg the question just how long are you prepared to close your eyes and ears crying loudly, "can't see, I can't hear"?

As someone who bought their first Mac (the Europlus) in 1979, then ported over to PC (DOS 3.1), using Microsoft OS right through to XP (that one at work) does give me some history of usage and experience in O.S's (including Linux, albeit Redhat).

So your comment about purveying misinformation and ill considered advice is at the best simply a reflection of your claim against me.

At one time or another all users do a major upgrade of their hardware - usually by buying the latest PC that they can afford. That is the time to take a dispassionate look at what is going on in PC/Mac development. Cost is no longer a factor. Software is becoming less and less a factor. O.S. current and future development is a factor.

Honestly, I don't give a Error Code 001 whether you see the light or not. There is more than a kernel of truth behind what Mac users say (both longstanding and the enormous number of ex-PC users who have ported over). The bottom line is that Mr Gates' fundamental OS design is flawed, hideously expensive and will continue to give grief. Stick with it if you enjoy the challenge of keeping your machine running.

raindog:

If you had read any of this thread at all you'd realise how foolish you are in stating I am in anyway in favour of Vista! This simply demonstrates the inability of that particular band of MAC faithful to observe any part of what is going on.

Do you guys have a roster system or are the tirade of posts saying nothing more than "get a mac, I did, and I no longer suffer erectile problems" just random. These post say nothing and are less than helpful for any cause real or imagined.

I am not anti MAC by any means, but Apple's policy towards the customer differs very little from that of Microsoft. There is little point in escaping the tyranny of one monopoly to suffer the tyranny of another.

Read the threads first and if after that all you have to blurt is "get a MAC" then best you don't bother.

Rob Greaves:

(Sigh)... no - no roster .... maybe just a large (and growing band) of people trying to promote a logical alternative. I guess no probably no point in your case. You say I wasn't reading the thread!!!!! I WAS responding to your comments in #77. But it seems as though you can't bear a debate .... only if it reflects your thoughts. Well, rest comfy tonight raindog - this finishes here.

raindog:

What's this the skivvy army? You people are like the Red Beret's a bunch of inept social misfits trying to save folks that dont need saving and certainly dont want saving by the chronically clueless.

how is swapping monopolies any kind of logical alternative?

I can bear a debate, question is can you muster a bullet proof argument?

Kevin C. Redden:

"The OEM version of XP Professional goes next January," said Frank Luburic, senior ThinkPad product manager for Lenovo. "At that point, they'll have no choice."

Oh I can see 3 choices already:

a) Go out and buy a new copy of XP Pro, so you can reinstall it anytime you want.

b) Buy a copy of Win2k Pro - That way you can install it on any computer, any number, and keep doing it forever, since it has no activation

c) Go into linux, or get a Mac

See? Plenty of choices. Mine - Win2k, and linux.

I'll never use Vista, and let MS tell me what I use a computer I bought and paid for, especially what I can and can't watch.

- Kevin C. Redden

Matt:

I am a PC guy, and have been contemlating getting a Macbook. I think this move just solidified my decision, as I want nothing to do with Vista. And, considering that if I stay with a PC I'd eventually have to deal with Vista at some point, I'd rather jump ship now to OSX.

PS - I also run Linux at home too, but mainly for sw development. I oculd get a laptop and put Linux on it, but frankly, I'd rather have a laptop that "just works" (yes, yes, Ubuntu...), and leave my PC to Linux hacking, etc.

Anyway, Microsoft is making a mistake, in favor of OSX / Linux.

Cage:

After reading about the lack of drivers support on Vista, I realised that the only way to run Vista problem free is to run it on a Mac - after the release of Leopard. Coz I can bet Apple will provide all the necessary drivers for their hardware.

Feels kinda funny how the computing world has spinned around.

MikeyD:

The people that think Vista offers no improvements on XP likely do not have any programming experience. There have been many improvements done on the code level (even aesthetic, but that is subjective). I think I'll stop here as I'm not defending anyone. But please, get your facts straight before you jump on the bashing bandwagon.

Marty:

Ok...let's talk about that. How many home users do you know have programming experience...but in the home user market Vista OS is the only OS offered??? So what you are saying is those millions of home users should have programming experience while the businesses, who may have programmers, are allowed to use XP????? That's insane!

madSOHO:

I recently bought a Dell Inspiron 6400/1505 that at the time of purchase was only offered with Vista. I asked several times if I could get it with XP and was told no. I explained that Intuit Quickbooks 2006 Pro was not supported in Vista and I did not want to upgrade to QB 2007 as well as having to upgrade other software. After speaking to two different sales reps I finally gave in and ordered it with Vista. Well to my surprise a week later on Dell's site they offer it with XP. I complained and after being told I could buy a retail version of XP and install it (at my expense), I told them I wanted all my money back and asked where to send back to. Funny how quickly they changed their mind and sent me a retail box of XP Pro, but with no support for installing it. I am very disappointed in Microsoft and Dell, what did they expect. I am very happy with the I6400, but not with the hassle I have been put through. I don't have the money to upgrade everything everytime Microsoft or Intuit decide they want to force a new product on me.

eriky4:

whats the big deal, its funny how people forget that microsoft an other big corporations are BUSINESSES which means they are here to makey money. why would they spend millions on vista if they were not going to phase xp out.

raindog:

Ever been in business?
If your business doesn't deliver the product your customers demand at a price comparable with the rest of your marketplace and of a suitable quality and longevity then the only outcome will be your meeting the receivers.

silx:

I've mostly migrated to Ubuntu Linux because the road ahead for MS OS's is bumpy. If anything, wait a year for the first service pack of Vista. I wouldn't go near it until then.

Wes:

Depending on what you do, you can easily use Ubuntu without ever thinking of Windows but once in a while I find I have to use Windows even though most of the time I use Ubuntu.

Alicia C Simpson:

Install Ubuntu and go buy Crossover from Codeweavers. Now you can run most of your favorite Windows software natively on Linux. You can even run Internet Explorer 5 (can't imagine why you would want to though).

Crossover runs Microsoft Office, Adobe Photoshop and Pagemaker and hundreds of other Windows titles!

Of course, you can save a lot of money by switching to OpenOffice, The GIMP, and Scribus!

Okay, Crossover won't play your games, for them you will need VMWare and a Windows install, then you can run your games in a virtual window!

DoodleDog:

It seems to me MS needs to make up its mind: Is Windows a consumer product or is it a business product? The two are diverging. Or is the MS business model beginning to show cracks? Can they reinvent the wheel every three years to keep the revenue rolling in? Or can they just change the face?

raindog:

Diverging? why do home and business versions need to differ? Why is a business version of windows which will generally be run in a less demanding manner sold at a premium. Why does something as simple as logging a PC to a domain require a complete OS replacement.

The whole PRO, home, Ultimate, version thing is a windows specific creation designed to milk more from the consumer.

What does Microsoft think the mindset will be of the hapless legions who who buy one of those "under-rammed name brand Vista home basic notebooks" at the too good to be true price? Will they be loyal Microsoft fan-boys after they find they have to spring for another version of their operating system to perform the basics or to get that eye candy all the fuss was about?

Chrome Warrior:

We have people that can and cannot afford the various versions.

Another way to make you feel stupid because you dont earn enough.

Another reason business shoves those whom have nothing into nothing and only the rich get richer.

Sucking in the people via Microsoft but I believe even free os if they didnt have the server world covered they would be like microsoft.

Money is a human curse it kills more than religion or plitics.
Proof is look at the world where you own a pc to where you never will own a pc.

Stewie:

People always compare Vista to when XP was being launched... but I think that is unfair. Vista is more like when Windows ME and Windows 2000 came out. Everyone was very content with 98, it was definitely more reliable, a small few "upgraded" so to speak to ME/2000, but eventually most people realized 98 was still the better OS. When XP came out, it was an actual improvement on the earlier OS's that were released, and made OS crashing a very rare thing. Vista on the other hand, is a resource hog, has very limited driver support, and my biggest beef with it, it tries to dumb down the OS so that you have less control over it. I don't want the OS to control every operation of my computer, I want a say over that, and Microsoft doesn't seem to understand this.

Matthew Castille:

Sorry, it gets better... Now windows users will be forced to use a sub par, Mac wannabe operating system that no body wants!!! TIME TO GET A Mac!!!!

APC guy:

Stories like this make me chuckle, why do so many people put up with the torture of using a MS OS and all the crap that goes with them.Anonymous Stop punishing yourselves, your PC should not need to be booted up several times a day. It should not be slow and sluggish because of the tools that compensate for bad code (virus, spyware and the other protection you NEED!)

I am free from such issues since moving to Linux a number of years ago. I was fully msce'd until I saw the light, I use to be a windows sys-admin.

I have used vista as a few clients have run into trouble with it and in my opinion it is a alpha/almost beta grade OS. Not worth paying the asking price! What better time for people to try the 'free' open source alternative and smash the shackles of Microsoft. MS will not change, it is all about money, you need XP fixing buy Vista, you need Vista fixing, buy our latest OS...and so on



So I ask you now Do You Ubuntu?

Sum Yung Gai:

I've been using GNU/Linux, trying a few different distros, for the last few years (I came up with Microsoft, so I thought I'd be a fair test). I've got to say, these open source folks have really got their act together. I've been using Kubuntu, which is Ubuntu with KDE (looks more like Windows to me), for about the last year and a half. And now I understand what all the fuss is about.

Man, is this great! Things just work and don't get in my way. The OpenOffice suite works perfectly with all my MS Office documents, Firefox and Thunderbird are an absolute *joy* to use, and pretty much any other application I want, I can install at will, any time I want! Things *just work* without any fuss. I can't tell you how much of a positive change that is, coming from Windows XP.

Those open source guys sure have got my vote after all this. I'm sticking with them now.

Linux User:

I have been using PCLinux with a Vista-themed GUI for
over a year now! It is stable, fast, secure and best of all FREE! Why hasn't the world opened its eyes yet? I still have a hard time trying to convince my collegues that it is not necessary to spend hundreds of dollars on software they really don't need. I wonder how Linux would be served with a half-billion dollar marketing campaign?

Anonymous--Ble:

System Builders can ship Windows XP until January 2009. If you switch from OEM direct (phasing out January 2008) to System Builder you lose shipping CD/DVD restore media and either have to restore from partitions or just provide the Windows XP disk (and can no longer do System Lock Preinstall only Windows Product Activation).

Midnitte:

Great time for dell to offer Ubuntu or other linux distros on computers =D

Snuff:

I have read this discussion about how microsoft is discontinuing support for XP next year, and saying that Microsoft is "evil" and the like, and that linux distro's are much better with support.

Well, I have just checked the ubuntu website and found the following:

Ubuntu 6.10 Supported to 2008
Ubuntu 6.06 Supported to 2009

I presume, and im sure I will be corrected, that this version has been around for a year or so, so in reality, you are only getting 2-3 years support!!

XP was released in 2001, and will be supported until 2008, thats 7 years!, double the ubuntu distro!

So stop bagging Microsoft, when your own camp deserts you earlier!!!!

raindog:

If your were any further out of touch you'd need a torch.

The dates quoted are the minimum active support periods for Ubuntu, unlike Microsoft, Ubuntu machines can be upgraded on the same hardware, you wont have to jump through hoops to get them to inter-operate and you wont need to junk much if any existing hardware. You wont be tied in a labyrinth of product activations and DRM issues.

The thing that really gripes is Microsoft adds redundancy by design, each new version of Windows involves ever more upheaval, version changes are not incremental, making the real value of a Windows upgrade dubious at best. Each new Windows version has Microsoft trying to cripple interoperability and deliberately stopping their programs from running on anything but the latest and prior version of Windows. That is just Microsofts profit motive gone mad, and its time to resoundingly let Microsoft know the market is not happy.

Microsoft has gone all out ensure the least possible interaction with other operating systems. (each version adds a new twist to Samba) And since XP Microsoft now feel entitled to cripple pre-existing versions of Windows.

You will have very little problem getting support for previous Ubuntu builds and in most cases the upgrades will be painless, certainly less upheaval than migration from XP to Vista.

Microsoft may be running a business and have a profit motive, but so do I and so do my customers. The cost of Vista has simply become unsustainable. The hardware vendors are screwed to the bone, the end consumer is worked over it's time for a change.

Its not realistic to consider a totally Windows free environment but its now to a point where Small business and Soho users could comfortably run MOST of their computing tasks on Non Windows machines.


Migrating to another OS is not without its costs, but gaining freedom from the Microsoft driven cycles of redundancy make that migration effort a positive bargain. It wont be for everyone but Vista certainly will be a turning point for many.

winds_of_change:

You are right.

Its time for likes of Dell and HP to offer mainstream linux distros like ubuntu, redhat or novel pre-installed on their machines.

I would prefer Ubuntu. So far I have been using XP and Fedora on my PC, but I am impressed by Ubuntu.

Another Network Tech:

Vista = Microsoft Windows: Trojan DRM Edition. Enough said.. i think its crap how they get away with building in all the DRM and anti-piracy crap right into the o/s to watch what you're doing.. anybody remember the class action suit against them a few years back for doing just that? collecting our info and passing it along.. :) The march of penguins is coming man Im tellin ya! For the time being I have my XP box, 2000 box, and ubuntu on my laptop. (The first because lets face it, its a gaming requirement, and the second to serve and protect my files)

Angry pc user:

alright, I don't even own vista and its a head ache a friend of mine does gameing over irc with me a irc causes his system to crash... you cant tell me your latest and greatest system is so super awesome when i simple chat program crashes the entire system for hours. I was thinking about a mac when it's time for a new computer, I've heard about almost virus free operation and it looks like yes, it's time for a mac... sorry pc

Anonymous2:

When will the big vendors get on board linux and provide some choice other than WINBLOZE!

In my opinion, this whole Vista thing is all about lock down and making sure the unwashed masses can't copy any media without hollywood sniffing over your PC shoulder!

Craer:

Ive been using Vista for around 3 months now and everything has worked great for me except for Nvidia's 8800gtx drivers. It took them forever to make a driver that was compatible with Vista, but now that its here, everything is nice and happy.

To the guy that said xp was an improvement over 98 as far as speed goes is wrong. XP was way slower than 98 because it required more hardware to run, just as Vista does.

Also, since now you can run aero and have your video card's gpu start processing the desktop (also, 768 megs of ram on the 8800gtx video card), desktop computing is actually faster. However for games, the overhead in vista you will notice a frame rate drop =( but still, with the right hardware, there is not a game out right now that drops my system below 60fps.

Paul:

We have 3500 computers, and want no part of Vista and DRM - which has now been exploited in favor of DRM protected malware.

We are looking to switch, probably to a mix of Linux and OS X with OpenOffice.

Microsoft should have put out a vastly improved version of Vista, with DRM optional, and lowered the price, before pulling the plug on WinXP.

Paul

Paul:

I've been using PCs since CP/M. I sling code for a living and live in a multi-OS virtual world with several virtual machioens runnign various betas. I know PCs. My new Dell notebook is running Vista, and the more I use it the more I like it. There were a few compatability issues, but nothing major. And everyone of my day-to-day apps and utilites run great on Vista. The only exception is a 3 year old USB audio driver. But the manufacturer says the driver is on the way.

The Vista interface is more productive. Several small features such as the file address bar that can be navigated directly in the directory locations and the smoother multi-tasking than XP make usign this machine a dream. Previously I thought the fastest PC experience was my favorite Compaq 386 portable. Man was it fast.

I liked XP so much that I resisted moving to Vista. XP is stable, mature, and a nice user experience. I had XP tweeked to perfection.

It may not be politically correct,but now that I'm here on Vista, I'm not turning back.

antivista:

When the USA FBI & the US Dept of Transport, just to name two, have decided they do not want anything to do with Vista as they have specialist software that will not run on Vista, something is wrong with the way microsoft have structured vista.

Vista is also full of DRM. Microsoft have indicated that this was necessary to allow blu-ray movies to be played on vista PC's. However by including DRM protocol in Vista it could very well have a side effect of not allowing non vista certified software or hardware from working (correctly). This could be one reason why people have so much trouble trying to install their favourite software.

If you brought a brand new PC with Vista loaded & all new vista compliant software/hardware you should be 99% trouble free. But you should not be forced to upgrade your machine and software in order to run vista.

Although Linux has come a long way, they still have one big hurdle to overcome. If they can build an operating system that exepts all windows based software/drivers, that can be loaded and operated on their OS as easy as can be done on microsoft OS's (and the vendors supply suitable Linux drivers) , and Linux not be burdened by DRM, then they have the game all sown up. When that happens I think I will correct in saying that a very large amount of people will migrate over to Linux saying goodbye to Microsoft. The fact Linux is free also makes it very attractive providing they can over come this last hurdle.

I currently run Windows 2000 professional at home on both my PC’s and I have no intention of upgrading to Vista, even when Microsoft no longer supports the product. When the time comes to upgrade I would very much like to go over to Linux. At least there is no activation key.

ultrarazen:

"If they can build an operating system that exepts all windows based software/drivers, that can be loaded and operated on their OS as easy as can be done on microsoft OS's"

In fairness man - installing a new app on Ubuntu is a hell of a lot easier then on any windows ever. Click Synaptic Package Manager, tick the new software you want from hundreds of options and hit install. Software is downloaded automatically and installed. And every once in a while you click update and upgrade and every piece of software on your computer is updated to the latest version. Windows update eat your heart out :)

Mike in Ludington:

Good one, Microsoft. Drive your customers to Linux... WinVista is the worst release of your OS since ME.

Is it WOW yet?

XPot:

Oh great, MS is just in another issue. People want XP, so give them XP and earn more money. If forced to Vista, dust bunnies will hop around those PCs with vista on it. If only MS didn't delay Vista (ofcourse not releasing a very buggy OS), then a lot of programs are already Vista compatible. It's all compatibility.

droid:

Forcing users to 'upgrade' to clunky slow Vista instead of patching XP, bright move MS. I would invite everyone to take a good look at Linux, either Ubuntu or OpenSuse both offer the 3D (before Vista did) and run well on much less hardware, oh did I mention NO licensing fees and great software! I put my dad on Suse and he loves it, his Windows OS used to drive him crazy now I don't have to re-OS his laptop every 3 months.

Brian Donohue:

This is a funny story to see on the day that Apple announces the delay to Leopard's release. At least Mac users are generally looking forward to seeing Leopard, while it seems MS will have to pry some cold dead hands off of XP!

Mind you, we bash the both of them fairly equally (every Wednesday, in our tech column at dailyrevolution.net). My question to Steve J. today is: are you telling me you don't have enough engineers to handle two projects at once? Can't afford them all? Heh, heh.

Ah, corporate America. Between these two and their shennanigans, I'm getting more excited about Ubuntu's Feisty Fawn, due out next week.

Bruce D:

I can only say :

WHINE-O-MITE!

Agree that right now, Vista on my 2 year old laptop isn't the fastest beast (I need a new laptop).

In the corporate world we have to maintain interoperability with other corporate IT shops. That means Windows on the desktop. You don't like it, but your users will get it and then you will be forced to support it, so you'd be well advised to be on the cusp of that wave rather than under it or behind it. No one really likes change. It makes life difficult. But it WILL occur with or without you. So stop whining! Sit down at the table of Micro$oft and enjoy!

Alicia C Simpson:

What ever makes you think you need Windows on the desktop to maintain interoperability with other corporate IT shops. This is nothing more than a myth that Microsoft pushes to keep people from getting other operating systems.

Any Linux or Unix box, using Samba, is fully interoperable with Windows.

We really need to debunk this foolish myth. Almost all major operating systems today are interoperable! You do NOT need Windows on the desktop!

Elowan:

Since when has MicroCash been taking it's users needs seriously if at all? They have released buggy and hole-y software for years.

Bottom line is money - always has been.

WOW:

When Vista was released everyone has heard the slogan: "the WOW starts now". But what does the WOW stand for?

I reckon WOW actually stands for the "War On Windows XP". So every time you see that slogan again, think of it as "the war on windows xp starts now"

Anyone agrees?

Bob Royce:

This is another example of MS forcing an Operating System on us because of economics. Anyone who has tested Vista extensively will tell you to stick with XP. There is a security hole as large as Niagara Falls that MS refuses to acknowledge. The application compatibility is a joke, oh sure, run your your app in XP compatibility mode, and pray it works. 8 out of 10 apps really don't work. I am predicting that Vista will be as large of a joke as ME was. I have about 2000 systems running XP that are stable (sort of), and I will not upgrade them to Vista. Maybe when Longhorn (big joke) is done, I may think about upgrading. In conclusion, being forewarned is being forelorned.

Don W.:

Every OEM copy of an MS-OS I've used has been a dog
with not teeth! OEM copies are 'hackney-doo'!
I've been a Windows user since Day-1 and each new
version has gotten prettier just like my cell phones,
and just as bad. By bad I mean the manufacturers
forgetting what the basic function of the tool
originally was!
My goal over the next year year is to only buy new
applications available in Unix and Windows versions.
Hardware houses should all band together (ha) and
offer the OS separately like they once-upon-a-time-
did, before MS suckered them in with their 'free
or low priced' crippled versions of Windows.
Honestly, all copies of Windows are crippled,
and OEM versions are the worst. By the end of this
year, every application I buy will need to have a
Unix version or one available within the coming year.
For the interim, what we all really need is a first
class Unix (graphical) shell that will allocate and partition memory to... oops that sounds a lot like
the first version of NT that B.G. promised us
suckers. Will someone provide a URL with a chart
that lists every product that Microsoft manufactures
with an equal or better Unix version?
Please point the way!

James Lovrek:

Does anyone remember "New Coke"???

dateman:

Well I did the Mac thing last week and got a shiny new Macbook Pro...

I have been a Linux user for the last 3 years (suse10) and suffer the windows nightmare at work...

All I can say is wow...Apple really do put the unit together so it can be used out of the box...they really do know how to make it work as a complete package...

Unless MS/Linux vendors start making/controlling the hardware and put together complete packages, they are just playing catchup...regardless of what version of an OS is being chucked at you.

grandma:

I am over 70yrs and have been reading your emails on Vista etc I would like to know more about Linux and how to go about downloading it onto my computer, I must admit I do struggle to understand but am keen to learn I have just realised that OS means Operating System, I was baffled at first but it is easy when you know how isn't it...I have XP Pro...

Anthony Staines:

Hi,

I suggest you get a 'live-CD' to start. Live-CD's let you run Linux from a CD without messing your Windows-XP. These are often given away with computer mags, but can also buy them, download them (in Windows) and copy the file to a blank writable CD.

Ubuntu - a popular Linux distribution using a desktop called Gnome - is available here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD
for the Live-CD.

If you like it then you can get an Ubuntu installer from here
http://www.ubuntu.com/ and put in on your system, either with Windows still available - called dual booting - or on it's own.

Make sure that you back up all your own files, photos, emails, documents, and so on to somewhere else before you install it. !

The Live-Cd won't touch your hard drive, but the full install will. Linux installers are very reliable and safe, but things can go wrong.

You can also get Kubuntu - which uses a more Windows like desktop called KDE - from here http://kubuntu.org/special-cds.php for the Live-CD version and a full install CD from here http://kubuntu.org/

There are lots of other Linux distributions, and a local Linux Users Groups (LUG) can help. They often hold install-fests where they will install Linux for you, and are usually generally helpful. Look here http://www.linux.org/groups/ for a partial list, or email a nearby group for advice.

Enjoy!

raindog:

Try Ubuntu as an easy start.

Ubuntu Website and look for the live CD you can boot into Linux from the Live CD and try to see if you like without installing onto your PC.

If big downloads are a problem you can have a CD Shipped

The best way for a windows use to venture into Linux for the first time. APC has live CD Linux versions on their cover CD's every other month.

Doesn't hurt to try.

Gonzo:

I've been thinking about this for more than a few months, now, and I'll now publicly pose the question: Why does one platform have to dominate both the home and office markets at the same time?

I think that if Apple were to aggressively persue a campaign of "Leave the office at the office, and bring the computer home again." to try to capture the home user, they could indeed be very successful in double-digit market-share growth.

There is always virtualization or Boot Camp for those that NEED to use something of Windows at home, and gaming is getting closer and closer to platform independence.

I can fully understand the need to run stamped-out beige boxes in the workplace... to be perfectly honest, I'll even go so far as to say the Windows is, indeed a better OS for general productivity of the average user. (even more-so for the majority of the 50+ set who can have extreme trouble dealing with things like tool-palettes that aren't connected with the document window, or menu bars that change depending on which window is "in front.

Just my 2 cents.

CogX:

That is already Apple's very own marketing strategy they have promoted with the Mac/PC commercials. "PC" is good at spreadsheets and such, but the Mac does the "creative" stuff you want to do at home. Of course, hard core FPS gamers with unlimited cash to blow on PC gaming rigs argue for a third "type" of computer use.

baka-neko:

Interesting comments from various people. But it just seems like humans do enjoy getting stuck in vicious cycles.

During the pre-Vista era, people are complaning how unsecure XP is. How much trouble XP had given them. So they are given Vista. And of course, the unsecure XP has to go. But then, people are furious when the OS they branded unsecure is to be removed from the shelf. So what does the people want exactly?

For those who care complaining Vista is slower than XP. Either you are a new kid in the block, or.. you are just new in technology.

When XP was released back in 2001, people often complained that XP is a resource hogger, its sluggish because they had installed XP on a win98 era hardware. So years passed, hardwares get a significant improvement. XP was no longer a slow OS.

Now with Vista. Once again, people compare Vista with XP. Where they had installed Vista on a XP era hardware. and they complained Vista is crawling. In a few years time, when hardwares got improved again, people will no longer feel that Vista is slow.

Dont you guys just feel stupid about nagging all day long about this?

For those is insist that you will not be using Vista. Suits you. But do remember, the world won't stop revolving just because of you, or anyone. Technology will keep improving and you will just be left behind.

Bizquick:

I dont agree on how you think these people are all new to IT. I think the people like most people here is that the hardware requirements are way out of spec's. lets compare this. if you bought a computer 6 months ago so for $1000 or so. Now lets load vista on that. it runs kinda slow. now if you the same thing with WinMe and Windows XP. it was fine. maybe getting your system all the way started was slower but while it was up and running the computer was probley little to no differance. Now you have vista. Even the brand new computers they sell for 500.00 dont run vista well at all. one the amount of ram is at the bare requirments. Now you spend a little more and get a computer with more ram but it still runs kinda slow. Why cause no video card. so you then add a new 200.00 video card. it then runs okay but still slow doing some simple things like say coping files from one folder to another. you can see the reports from others on that and MS has a technet on it. I hate vista but I know at some point we will have to change. But XP runs even faster with the new spec'ed computers. Win98 didnt use more than 384 ram so going to XP was a good Idea. Also look how long it took for applications to get moved over to XP. It took a good year or more. Now I'm sure that most of the people know they will be upgrading to vista but alot of them are like me. Why did MS do such a bad job on developer managment in the hardware requirements area. And to ask our OEM vendors to start loading more Linux distro's is not going tohappen thanks to that media law I think is DRM. Anyway you cant even legaly play back a DVD in linux with our North Americal Laws. I'm not saying it cant be done but according to the fine print its not legal. Cause you can find ways to copy dvd media with open source software. And yes you can do that now on XP as well. But the software you use to do that is intended for another country. So seeing more OEM versions of linux and such will most likely not happen. But I maybe late 2008 all the bugs will be worked out and hardware might drop down enough for us all to consider running vista and upgrading our systems to run it smoothly.

Apontimus:

If you've been into computer for awhile... Do you remember Windows 95. Very small, 16 or 18 .cab files that made a system that was attractive and streamlined. Put that same operating system on today's hardware... MONSTER FAST! No overhead, not many freels, but that should be a thing left to 3rd party developers and the like, not included in a new version of the os. I thought os stood for operating system, not Obese <--(thanks Ubuntu dictionary...) System engineering. I'm sure whatever the consumer decides, there will be a patented Microsoft product included in a new os that we all become reliant upon someday... BTW, I had some VBscript around here someplace but it disappeared SOMEPLACE... oh well ...

lmao!

HLof S:

Technology does keep improving! It's called Linux! My son is an engineer at the Aust. synchrotron. They use open source operating systems, with a licence I might add. The reason being that MS crud XP and Vista is just too unreliable. Users don't have much difficulty going from one operating system to the other because Vista features are uncannily like existing Linux systems in many ways.

DoLittle:

We are all idiots!

The PC to the average home user is just another appliance…. right?

When I got married in 1982 I bought a new Stove approx $450 a new frig around $250 and a set of new Maytag’s at a whopping $1000 bucks “that’s in 1982 dollars!” I was lucky I already had a TV, Stereo and a Bed. The stove and refrigerator are still in the kitchen the Maytag’s have raised two kids and are still working just fine. “To be fair, I did once did have to buy a $30 part-upgrade for the washer”

I bought my first PC at Best Buy in 1995 for around $1,100 “Pentium 133 with 16MB ram and a big 1 GB HD”. Since then I have bought or put together numerous machines keeping up with “what is needed”

The first digital camera I bought had to go, no drivers available when I switched from 98 to XP. That’s OK, one megapixel was hardly enough and spending another $300 about 20 months later seemed the thing to do. The expensive sound blaster gold card with the RCA jacks that plugged right into my 1970’s stereo…well it had to go too, since it was ISA buss. It now sits on the shelf next to the US Robotics hardware modem that went into the same obsolete buss. I think the revolution number9 video card is up there too. You get the point? During all this I have sat through “Windows Will Have To Restart Now “ countless times. If I had to turn my TV, Stove or Washer OFF and ON as much I’d still be watching Chevy Chase LIVE on Saturday Night, weigh a lot less and smell like shit.

We are idiots with way too much money to spend.

One last thought…. We have gone through numerous automatic drip coffee machines…are they in anyway connected to Intel or Microsoft?

Flue:

Well all I have to say is that when Xp came I dident leave my windows2k pro for a long time but becurse the most things people says about vista today is the same as when Xp came and I´am a multi user some microsoft , linux and some Mac. So just give it some time and we will see how it goes but still I have to say that that to transwer to Vista is youst a very big step today that cant be recomended, but to totaly rejecting it is not troue at this time. I still love win98se for some old programs even got an old pentium 133 running only dos 6. all Os got it pros and cons and Xp is mostley a Gamers system and MacOS X is for the proffecionals.
DOS=Retro
Win98SE Retro/Gamer
XP=Gamers
OS X= proffecionals
Vista= Future gamers
Linux= Developer

sorry about my band spelling got ADHD and still thinks you can understand or else u got it to :-)

Joe Tech:

Hope Microsoft goes down for making vista

Angorian:

I don't think you can fairly compare the Ford truck to the operating system and say there is no cost difference between manufacturing both XP and Vista and there is for different model years of trucks.

If your old truck breaks down, you buy a part (Ford makes money off this) and you fix it, on the other hand Microsoft has to continue to support two operating systems with patches that you do not pay for as long as they sell both versions both. They will even support XP for a few years after no one has bought it. I believe that supporting both product lines would be very very expensive for Microsoft. If people were willing to pay for update subscriptions, I suspect Microsoft would continue to support XP as long as they could turn a profit supporting XP.

audiomind:

This is the last straw for me.

m$ can go to he11.

I will NEVER purchase anything pre-installed with Vista. It's either XP or on to the mac.

Mike:

Vista is not the boogey monster! This system easily runs side-by-side with current XP and 2003 systems. The home user will only be amazed at the ease of use and efficiency. Built in IE7, Windows Defender, Movie Maker and Photo Gallery are all vast improvements over XP.
Businesses should and will have the most concerns. Down-time to learn a new system is the only negative that I can see (this however has not proven to be too problematic in my experience..I should know as I am in the business of supporting Small/Medium Business IT infrastures)
I understand concerns over Drivers. I am running an x64 version of Vista and have this concern more than most. That being said, I really haven't had too much trouble getting a rock solid system running with supported software and hardware. This will only get even easier as time goes forward.
Hardware requirements of Vista are a bit lofty if you will desire to run the full feature set of Vista with little to no lag. However, if you are just looking for a basic system for Internet and E-mail, then look no further than the Vista Home Basic edition. You will not need an expensive computer at all. Vista Business edition will require a more modern PC than can run XP with stability, though market prices seem fair to me and will only be driven down like all technology products (e.g. - Intel's Core 2 Duo line is already scheduled for a price drop this summer; the Core 2 Duo has proven its ability to run Vista quite well). To sum up the hardware expense issue, only high-end users are shelling out the big bucks for top end hardware. The majority of the market will not need to justify such an expense to run Vista with stability.
Let's see this from Microsoft's position. Firstly, they need to get their new product out there. Vista needs to start showing its value for all the time MS spent developing it (not too mention $$). Of course, why should the consumer care about that so.... XP has a great use as a business product, and in fact, MS has always promoted itself as a business catalyst sytems developer... but what about the needs for today? People want ease of use with photo editing, movie making, printing, etc... Welcome To Vista folks! Think of Vista as a business/creative system. In my eyes, Mac has little over the Vista Ultimate edition and Vista Home Premium or Vista isn't too far behind that. Plus, add in the fact that people have familiarity with MS operating systems and the majority of software and hardware is designed for Windows = a winner!
Vista is a superior product offering from Microsoft. I hate to market for free, but oh well... WOW!

Michael Dugan, MCSE+Sec
MXOtech, Inc.

raindog:

How's that Ferrari notebook going Mike, is it just the ticket for typing up PR spin pieces?

Tim Polmear:

Ummm...
Ease of use with photo editing, movie making, printing, etc...You don't need Vista for that. I'm managing quite well with Win2KPro. Heck I could probably get by with AmigaDOS 2.5 (well, sorta).

I mean it's not like Vista is the first OS to ever run PhotoShop, or print something. Sure, I understand elements of Vista are being pitched at the 20-30 somethings, mortgage belt 2.4 kids-and-a-dog demographic who just want to print that cute pic off a mobile phone, or send an e-mail to Granny, but how, exactly, will Vista make it easier to go FILE > PRINT ?

Home User:

Mike, you obviously put a lot of time into your business. What you might consider is getting out of the office a bit more. Your website reads like a Microsoft help file.

CogX:

Glad you love NT6. Of course, what I find interesting in this entire thread is how people consider an operating system to be the entire point of using a computer. The operating system is necessary, obviously, but it is much like buying a brand new microwave and only ever using it for the clock, the timer, and/or the light that turns on when you open the door.

Computers are meant to execute programs.(In my analogy, the 'food' that goes in the otherwise minimally useful microwave.)

Does AutoCAD/ADT run "better" on NT6 than on NT5.1sp2? What about Photoshop, InDesign, SPSS, AMOS, EQS, ArcGIS, FB Designer or U4ia?

Shoot, we use those apps now, but come January 2008, am I to understand they will cease to function on "old" operating system?

When will Adobe, AutoDesk, and others make software applications that will *require* NT6 to run? 2008, 2009, 2010?

Also, for the nix fans out there, what would be the best way to run all of those apps without Windows?

RTX29:

To many I know, a PC is just an appliance like a TV, VCR, microwave, telephone, DVD player etc. You buy it and use it for its purpose. When was the last time you had to upgrade the software on you microwave oven to make to work better or had to get a new telephone (land line) to talk to someone better? Sure technology changes like HD-DVD or 900mhz to 2.5ghz telephones, but micro$oft tells us that there old OS (winxp) is not secure and old and we better upgrade to be safe! Crazy!!

Fate Master:

How many people actually waste
their money buying a new system
everytime a new OS comes out, most
people who had 98 switched to XP
when it came out because they'd had
enough experience with MS to
realize that 2000 would suck,
because like Vista it was just a lead in to a better functioning OS. The difference is they didn't try to force us to buy it back then.

Anton:

The more we give comments the more Ms get free advice. They already rip off our pocket by its price and still having such free feedback? The world goes crazy...

GaryDaGeek:

The Sheeple will follow M$ anywhere M$ wants to lead them. Even over the cliff.

I recently bought an Emachines t3418 at bestbuy. It came with 512Mb ram, a built in (shared video memory) Nvidea 6800 graphics and tons of useless memory hogging trialware. Every single service running with XP home installed. This has an AMD sempron 3400 processor which runs at 2.1 GHZ. I added 512Mb of ram for a total of 1024 and an ATI x1300 pro graphics card with 256 Mb of ram.

It still runs like a slug with the factory install and installation as delivered.

Turning off the useless unnecessary services and removing the garbage ware gets it to run smoothly and acceptably.

I am a PC tech and I bought this rather low end system specifically for the purpose of testing utilities which I need to use to fix problems on similarly equiped systems which people buy every day from the likes of bestbuy, staples, compusa, dell, gateway etc. It has no floppy drive. It can not boot from a USB device (crippled bios). It says it is Vista capable. It is barely XP capable.

The drive is divided into a recovery partition and an os partition and it does not come with an OS disk, just a system recovery CD. Furthermore it has never been on the internet so it is not infested with any spyware or viruses, although I have run utilities from BartPE just to check it's virginity. Simply put it is as good as it's going to get.

Interestingly my utilities which read the Product Key and Product Identification Number identify the system software as XP Pro. I believe this is because it has remote administration so Gateway can provide gee whiz fix it to grandma. That is not a standard feature of Xp Home so I would guess it is really Pro lite or Home plus whatever you would like to call it. Emachines (Gateway) does not provide any drivers other than those provided for the XP install. I decided to upgrade the hard drive from the original 160 GB to a new Maxtor 320 GB drive. I used the Maqxblast 4.0 cd to copy the system partitions and software from the original primary drive to the new drive which ran for several hours befrore completing. It cloned the original partitions and created a large unformated partition, remainder of the disk space. Booted into the bios and auto detected the new replacement primary drive. System would not boot reporting a non system disk. Had to run partition recovery software whereupon it booted and automatically ran the system recovery system. After the system ran Sysprep reinstalling everything to it's original factory settings it ran xp as before only this time it activated WGA and I had to accept the liscence agreement. I could restore the image files I saved to DVD's using BING back on at this point but I haven't. I will let WGA run it's course and then run the hacks from Bart to fix it. Not because I have to but just to test the hacks. It seems this behavior was somehow programed into the BIOS. Of course nothing is really lost since it is all on the original hard drive anyway and any usefull data could easily be recovered from that. In any event I want to set up a multiboot system to run windows 98SE, 2KPro, XP Home (Original factory), XP Pro, Vista and SUSE 10.2. I have managed to find most of the critical drivers for these OS's through a great deal of effort with 98 SE being the most difficult. Most manufacturers have quietly withdrawn support for this system even though they have developed the drivers. I can't help but believe that a certain 800lb gorilla has been leaning on the hardware developers to do this although of course I have no proof.

In regard to windows 98 SE I would like to point something out. I use a system with that OS for all of my research but it is hardly "out of the box". It has the Unofficial Service Pack installed (98SE2XP), Mozilla Firefox 2.0, Thunderbird, AVG 7.5 (free), Spybot, Addaware, Sygate Personal Firewall 5.5, Total Uninstaller and Roxio Goback 3.0 and CCleaner. I also run Tcpview at startup. I do not use IM. I am not running Microsoft Networks. I also use Mikes Host File. I have been using this system on a daily basis for over 5 years. It uses all of my 512 MB of system ram . This requires a setting in the system.ini file. Use up to 1 GB ram. Edit sys.ini just below the Dynapge entry with this line MaxPhysPage=40000. I have NEVER been infected with a Visus, Spyware, Addware, Popups or any other anomalies. I use Roadrunner Cable. My Network only uses TCP/IP. No other protocols are enabled. I run P2P programs, BitTorrent and any other damn thing I want to. My system does not "Phone Home". Other than my need to run CMD files for BartPe builds I would have no use for XP at all. So why in the he11 would I need Vista? My 98 Se Runs like a scalded dog! It is the last M$ version I have full control of. It belongs to me. I can put it on any machine I damn well please. When I install Vista I don't own it IT OWNS ME!

As for MS support, Who Cares! If I ever do get infected I lose at most a days work! I just roll back to my last image that I create at startup. I really don't need M$ telling me what I can and can not do. I can do anything!

Now I know Grandma isn't going to do this but that does not stop you! You bought your PC and You own it, not Micro$oft!

Sasha:

Happy penguins indeed! My computer is mine again since tossing XP and switching to Slackware Linux a few months back. I don't regret it for a second, and don't lack any functionality or applications either. Performance and efficiency are dramatically improved, and I can tailor every aspect of the way my OS runs to my own specifications.
I *thought* the last thing I did on the XP installation was hit the 'OK' button on System Restore, but as it turned out, I must have accidentally clicked the 'Destroy Hard Disk and Render Machine Unusable' button. That was the last time I would find myself repairing a corrupted Windows installation.
If not necessarily Linux, open source is the way to go if you want to have any semblance of control over what your system is doing behind your back (which in the case of Linux is 'nothing') or if you want to be sure your personal data isn't being farmed out on the side by your operating system.
Microsoft cannot sustain it's 'herd the sheep' mentality forever, atleast not where it concerns users who want to use their computers themselves, rather than having an operating system which can identify all of the capabilities of your machine, and then tactfully (and not so tactfully) disallow you from using them.
Windows is your machine on drugs. Linux is as clean and sleek as you wanna make it.
Read those MS EULA's carefully - they're well crafted documents that basically state that "...by using our software, you become enslaved. What you don't willingly or knowingly give us, will be knowingly or unknowingly taken from you..."
Switch to Linux - and get your machine back!

Take care everyone.
Thanks to whoever provided this space for me to type in.

GaryDaGeek:

Thanks to Sasha and all others for replying. I really wanted to respond to Paul Smith's Blog.  Paul's site is titled Windows Vista DRM Nonsense. Is It really? http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog?blog=3&title=windows_vista_drm_nonsense&page=1&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1&disp=single The typical user is clueless as to what this issue is all about. If the MPAA and RIAA had any brains at all they would want to keep it that way. Instead they have opted to try to cram DRM down everybody's throat, and in the process they will affect legitimate users who, until now, had no interest at all in this issue. What happens when Uncle Joe can't play his HD-DVD or his Blue-Ray disk on his expensive Vista PC and he calls his nephew Tony, who is the family Geek, for help? Tony says "Your $1900.00 monitor doesn't play the DRM protected $49.00 disk you bought because your video input isn't HDCP Vista compliant.". "There are a few things we could Do.". 1. "You could buy a compliant monitor.". 2. "I could load a copy of Linux on a dual boot configuration on your hard drive and we could use a different Media Player that will work. This will also give you a chance to try out Linux. Personally I like it a lot better because than Vista; it's more secure, runs better and allows me a lot more freedom to do what ever I want.". 3. "I can set you up an account that lets you download any movie, software or music you want, up to 20 Gigabytes a month. It's only $4.98 a month, and the first month is free. You could try it, and if you like it, you can keep it. The files don't use any DRM or copy protection schemes. Personally I use it and I can burn the movies to disk and play them on my HDTV or watch them on my PC, share them with my friends and do whatever I want with them, and it works just great. I'd be glad to set you up and show you how.". Assuming that uncle Joe doesn't opt for option 1, Uncle Joe is either going to (2) start using Linux, at least to play his legally owned and purchased movies, in which case Microsoft risks losing Joe, who never even heard of Linux untill Tony told him about it, or (3) Joe will join the Undernet, without ever knowing he's a Pirate, and the MPAA and RIAA will never sell Joe another damn movie or song for the rest of his life. Joe will also tell his Golf buddies about this incredible deal and they'll all want to talk to Tony too. Have you ever heard of the value of "Word of mouth" advertising? Is there really anyone who believes that there isn't a Linux player that can play this crap? Linux is open source, as are the applications. That means the code is available to everyone and anyone. People can build on what already exists. There are tens of millions of people from all over the world who are UNIX/Linux trained contributors. Maybe the application can't be included in the official distros but they surely do exist, and Tony knows where to get them and how to use "apt-get install revolution" to load it. Every DRM scheme that has ever been used has been busted and it always will be. Right now the implications and impact of this are really quite small. Mostly the people who use these systems and services like to keep a low profile, stay under the radar and not attract a lot of attention. They are not usually very evangelical. If Hollywood and M$ want to create he11 on earth against them they are on exactly the right path to make that happen. All that is needed is to Piss Off Joe, Grandma and aunt Edna. Right now they don't have a dog in this hunt. Vista can change that. Once the hardware manufacturers new devices which require Vista compliance are fully implemented the devices can't be compatible with any previous releases of Micro$ofts O.S's., or any open source O.S. It has to require "approval" in order to run and only Vista (with Hollywood's consent) can authorize the approval. So that means no backward compatibility. It means Vista only. That locks out over 90% of the installed user market base to comply with this S*** ! Users should be aware of this draconian M$ scheme to enslave the world and reject it! If a hardware device requires a check key to be approved which only the Vista O.S. can issue for it to function it is automatically non-compliant with every other O.S. in the world! Is it any wonder driver development has slowed to a crawl? You will be assimilated; Comply or die? We are the BORG! WTF! Imagine a single company, who answers to no one but it's stockholders, having complete and total control over the entire worlds internet and multi-media communications. Sounds good for them and bad for everybody else doesn't it? If you have this s*** I strongly recommend you remove it and replace it. At least try a Linux dual boot. If you don't have it I strongly recommend you don't get it. If you think this is just a paranoid rant please educate yourself on the issues before casting judgement. It really is time for ordinary people to give a damn. If this S*** ever becomes fully entrenched freedom will be redefined as Micro$oft Trusted Computing! Vista is not an operating system it is an infection which is being fostered on an unsuspecting public as an improvement. See this article "Vista security spec 'longest suicide note in history'" here http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36570 Spread the Joy Joe! Way to go Micro$oft! Way to go MPAA/RIAA! The WOW starts now! Albert Einstein "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.". LOL Way to go MPAA/RIAA! The WOW starts now! Albert Einstein "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.". LOL

Not happy, Jan:

You are not wrong, GaryDaGeek, and I feel just as outraged. Microsoft's recent conduct in dictating how people use their private property is totally unacceptable (and some aspects are arguably unlawful). As for DRM, no copyright holder has any right to unilaterally "enforce" its purported rights by destroying or interfering with private property. If its rights are infringed, it can apply to a court of law for a remedy, just like any other person who thinks they have a right which has been infringed. The saddest part is that I've seen many posts on other forums which indicate that people have actually swallowed this garbage as legitimate. As for removing and replacing Vista, I am looking at getting a new laptop and it will cost me hundreds of dollars to buy a retail version of XP to replace the Vista which will come with the machine (assuming you can even get it off, it's probably been permanently engraved). And who would benefit if I rejected Vista? Why, Microsoft, of course. Either way, they benefit to my detriment. (And yes, I've downloaded Linux, but I am not a computer geek and it will take me an eternity to get to where I can just use it easily and, if it is like Firefox, there will be some things that will just not work.....)
As for MS' plans to control all of the hardware, I bought a Microsoft keyboard which had a licence "agreement" that the driver could only be used on one machine - what???? You can't move YOUR keyboard between machines? I rang up the shop and made them take it back because I didn't agree with the EULA. I'd suggest that is the way to stomp this out. Actually RETURN the software and don't accept ridiculous conditions. Millions of copies of the software bouncing back should send a message.....
BTW, I am probably the Aunt Edna of your story... I have never stolen anything in my life, but if I discovered an enormous piracy ring which was costing Microsoft millions, I would not open my lips to tell them or the authorities about it.

PECADOR:

Like or not guys we gonna need vista window to run our pc's so u gonna have to buy it like it or not and microsoft knows this,since there is no other company good enough to compete against microsoft we don't have a choice but to upgrade.

Techdivr:

Pecador, you are 100% correct. Due to the dominance of M$ product in the marketplace, M$ can single handedly drive the PC market. Do you remeber the hardware development races of only a few years ago?

Until a REAL competitor can make an OS that runs the existing and highly available Windows applications natively, Microsoft has a virtual Monopoly.

For my customers sake, I can only hope that Vista has the same fate as Windows ME and dies off quickly. Hey, maybe Microsoft will re-package XP and name it PHOENIX !

As for the immediate future, we'll be forced to throw everything up against the wall and see what sticks.

Remember Micrsoft doesn't make an OS for OUR benefit. They make it for PROFIT !!

Techdivr:

Pecador, you are 100% correct. Due to the dominance of M$ product in the marketplace, M$ can single handedly drive the PC market. Do you remeber the hardware development races of only a few years ago?

Until a REAL competitor can make an OS that runs the existing and highly available Windows applications natively, Microsoft has a virtual Monopoly.

For my customers sake, I can only hope that Vista has the same fate as Windows ME and dies off quickly. Hey, maybe Microsoft will re-package XP and name it PHOENIX !

As for the immediate future, we'll be forced to throw everything up against the wall and see what sticks.

Remember Micrsoft doesn't make an OS for OUR benefit. They make it for PROFIT !!

nat:

I have one suggestion.
DO NOT BUY VISTA.

Apart from the money that Microsoft is trying to make you spend there are all the problems related to DRM.
This means that you will not be free to do everything you like with your PC. They will be able to delete files from your PC, disable you from installing software you like and many other issues...
Read here:
http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista

Keep using window XP if you are comfortable with that and start looking at open source (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, OpenSUSE, etc). Linux operating system are becoming better and better, more user friendly, more attractive, more profitable and easier to use and they are FREE, because you can get those with no money but over all because you are free to do whatever you like with them.

So when the moment will come to upgrade to a new operating system (or even now) do not go for Vista, chose open source or an OS that does not support DRM.

Robert:

Looks like I'm in trouble my computer is not compatiable I have to order a cd from the computer company overseas and upgrade it to except Vista

Dell:

Its kinda unfortunate to see computer makers not accepting Windows Vista with open arms as many persons at Microsoft had hoped for.

henk:

Get a $599 Mac Mini. It comes with the most sophisticated OS currently on the market (included). It manages your movies, your pictures, your music and your business if you like. It runs Office, Photoshop and everything you could wish for. It has wifi and bluetooth built-in. You can hook it up to your old keyboard and monitor and you're off. You can install bootcamp, so you can downgrade it to Windows (XP or Vista) at will. Actually, I am typing this on a seven year old G4, running OSX 10.4.9, the latest OS10 version. Just to show you how far Apple hardware goes...

duey:

I up graded to a new dual core 64 hp with vista. So far I have loaded only two programs and both don’t work with Vista. Vista is like a bad dream. The one program is Magix Movie Edit Pro. The program takes two to three minutes to load using Vista. Compare to 7 to 10 seconds with XP. Then once loaded it runs like a slow dog and the worst of it all, the program can’t find the DVD burners. I have two in the machine. XP had no problem. The other program is Activsion’s The Movies. So I right now I have a 800 dollar box that I keep tripping over.

Along with not running XP programs the Vista has all sorts of anti spyware and virus protection that I do not want. Out of the 12 computers I have, only one computer that goes on the internet and it never gets to be part of my home network.

Vista is go to be the worst OS since IBM’s OS 2.

Apontimous:

I own a Computer Retail store. My designs include offering customers a discount on the hardware pricing for NOT buying Microsoft Windows. The salesmen will have Ubuntu Live CDs to show customers the basics of Ubuntu, bundled with an attractive savings of over $150.00 per machine to NOT be a slave to Windows anymore. You wouldn't believe the price difference between the two machines. With new Ram prices, and CPU/MB Bundles, the average "low" end machines can be priced so attractively even granny will "try" Ubuntu... (The down-side is, I'm sure Microsoft will try to pull us into court when alot of people grab up the hardware, and run home and try putting Windows on their "second" machine...)

Not to mention once they see how easy it is to reinstall (Ubuntu), I'm sure the offer will look very attractive... Anyone want a new $300.00 machine that retails in the bigger stores for $450.00 or more?

Of course, if they don't like Ubuntu, since they've already purchased a machine from us, we will offer it at cost, to those few that decide to stay loyal to Microsoft. We make about the same money as we always have on Windows sales, and help promote a nice alternative.

Just one little entrepreneur's way of making things look pretty... :)

Paul:

I'd buy one of your Ubuntu machines and I applaud your efforts. I wish it were more widespread.

I hate Microsoft because they're trying to force me to buy into Vista, and they have the muscle to do it. They can arrogantly produce an OS and demand that the world use it, because there isn't a really great alternative. Linux isn't quite ready, the IMAC is too expensive. I bet M$ has more lawyers than programmers.

But what if Linux is almost ready. M$ has already began inserting it's legal tentacles into this mix. Can they tie up the entire Linux community in costly legal battles to prevent it from becoming a major OS. Will they own Linux, too?

I'm a PC consultant. I was thrilled when I bought my first PC, put in my own memory and parts. I loved the idea that I could just pop down to the corner store and upgrade it, or download thousands of pieces of free software for it. PCs are fun this way.

M$ is scary. They want to check my PC for legality, and my downloads. They can force my clients to, eventually, buy new PCs for Vista as they have to upgrade, and they can cause significant damage to Linux if they want.

I reluctantly bought an Apple Macbook Pro. It's a good thing. It's going to fill my need to help me support Vista, and my growing list of Mac clients (who still need help sometimes), and will also let me play with Linux more, all in one portable computer. But if it hadn't been for Vista I wouldn't have spent this money. I also wish Apple computer were less expensive.

If Linux were ready, or if Steve Jobs reduced prices by 25%, we could bury M$, and I'd pay to help do it.

denhey:

Of all the people replying here, I would like to see in a year's time how many still resisted Vista. It's the same as politics: We know the buggers lie to us but then they sweet talk us before an election and we end up voting for them again. Bill knows this and will offer a sweet deal soon - then most will take the deal. Talk about spineless ...

Cornnose:

I always thought it was a 5000lb pink elephant, not an 800lb gorilla.

Tom Steele:

When I recently purchased my Dell XPS system, I opted for XP as well. I had read plenty of articles in the PC Mags that were trying to convince me (or so it seemed) that Vista was "almost as fast as XP."

Well, I've used XP for sometime now and I don't need the bells and whistles of Vista if they cost me speed.

MS is missing the boat. To be fair, it isn't 100% their fault. I do not believe Moores law has held up with computers recently. My core duo system has a slower (2.4ghs vs 2.8ghz) processor than my previous XPS. I don't fully know why, but I'm assuming that my core 2/duo/whatever can do two things at once and my old system wasn't so good at that.

But even using a performance raid, doubling to 2gb ram and choosing a blazing fast video card, this computer only feels marginally faster than the previous one.

So MS is up against hardware that isn't keeping up with code bloat it seems to me.

raindog:

Looking through the new Vostro range from DELL shows no options for purchase with XP, Linux or "OS not included", sorry DELL no sale on machines in this range.

If Vostro is only available with Vista included and drivers for other OSs likely not available then the product is simply unfit for intended purpose. No Sale!

Steve001:

Can someone tell me where I can purchase an academic upgrade version of winXP service pack 2? (Sydney pref) Officeworks don't sell it anymore, and the software I want to use is tied to my hardware which dosen't work with Vista. Thanks.

databoy:

Try RyanVM's MSFN Files Page
http://www.ryanvm.net/msfn/
You can download all the patches and slipstream them with nlite.
http://www.nliteos.com/

Home User:

Anybody who relies on Microsoft to keep their WinPC of whatever flavour secure and reliable is asking for trouble. Aren't they just saying that they've given up trying to make XP work properly? Like they say - with Windows you work on the computer, with Apple you work. And I don't own a Mac, yet.

Devblade:

This will cause major problems...

They are forcing people to use vista by using several different marketing ploys...

DX10 for example is Vista only, future games will be vista only.. Office programs may well be vista only..

people don't like vista... i like XP.. and if i have to switch to something other than XP...i would choose linux or OSX... and i never liked them when i did try them

Anon:

I've seen Vista being used, and I don't even have use it to say that it obviously looks like an extremely resource hungry bastard. A friend that's used it says it's not much of an improvement besides the GUI. Which seems that's all they worked on.

A completely stupid move for such a large organization. Honestly the GUI is a basic, it's something we've got to interact with more than OSs without a GUI. not a major top important thing that Microsoft think they need to make pretty.

Typically this much graphical detail is put into games... and I don't want my OS to be a game I want it to be an OS!

If Microsoft put all the effort they did into improving the GUI into improving Windows there would have been a real new OS to release. It's obvious that they were thinking of graphics whores, how this'll appeal to people who like to look at stuff which looks pretty. I'm sorry Microsoft but that doesn't work in Operating Systems. It peaked for me with the way windows 95 looked.

Paul Naylor:

There's too many problems with Vista at the moment to drop XP at the years end i feel is a bad move there are compatibilty issues which would mean you going out replacing hardware and software that you have already got on XP is it really worth the grief you have had XP for years you have got your pc how you want it and now Vista i'd give it a wide birth for now

Skullcracker:

As he waves his hand in front of your face.

For all Windows users:

Bill Gates didn't get to be where he is now just so you can run and hide when he comes back downstairs with the belt of doom to smack it across your backside some more. You will forever be his slaves, down in the dungeon basement, nowhere to run or hide, naked and in the dark, with the rats and spiders and rusty nails just hoping he brings a plate of food every now and then that you can actually digest. If you get food poisoning or want a burger, steak or something decent, tough sh**. His troopers are paid by line of code, so they don't give two sh**s whether or not the food they cook is good enough for you prisoners. You will eat it and you will like it!, as the Rock used to say.

You see, every now and then, Ol' Billy', as I like to call him, needs to fatten his wallet by stealing some of your hard-earned dough. It's just the way things go. There's no trying to stop it. He's like a pimp, and you are his ho. When it comes time to collect, he will collect, or cut you off, and you go catch a virus and die, thus having to rebuild. You can see where I am coming from.

The Juggernaut known as Microsoft will ensure they suck a couple hundred out of every single one of you, at least every 5 years for a new OS, it's the Monopolistic way. GO to Best Buy, Do not come back home until you have bought a Vista machine, Do not collect more than one liscence which you can do nothing with except use on that machine.

CogX:

First, Gates has gone on to do his world health charity work, so you need to update your evil personification to Ballmer (and perhaps with far more validity than with Gates).

As for the usual Microsoft wants to own your life rhetoric: it's the stockholders. Stockholders. Stockholders. Stockholders.

You have a retirement fund? I do and lo and behold, Microsoft's stocks account for a significant portion of the large cap assets, not by my choice, but that is just the way it is. Microsoft is a significant large cap asset in the US economy, whether tech geeks like it or not.

Suits run Microsoft to maximize profits for the stockholders. The products that come out of Microsoft will always be tainted by the stink of decisions made solely on the basis of marketing share and maximizing profits. I don't think anyone can even imagine what the programming talent at Microsoft could do in a perfect utopia where money was taken out of the equation and they were just able to come out with amazing technology that we could all use for our own pleasure.

As for my Vista thoughts, until SP1, NT6 right now is just in "production beta". In the business world, where it is about the software one uses, not about how flashy the OS GUI is, there is a reason Win2000 held around for as long as it did and that it wasn't until after XP SP2 was released that it was deemed appropriate to migrate to XP en masse.

What I do find interesting, then, is with talk of NT7 being only 3 years out from NT6sp1... will the vast majority of the business world just skip past Vista? Maybe not a vast majority, but I'd be comfortable placing a substantial bet that Ballmer will be a very unhappy camper in 2010 to see how many XPsp3 systems (assuming they don't change their minds and kill of SP3) are still in use at that time.

Maddy:

I have just bought an hp laptop with vista business preinstalled. That thing calling itself an Operating System was just dam slow, so i decided to install linux on it. I downloaded kubuntu feisty fawn and installed it, all drivers worked(except the fingerprint) without any problem, i am connecting to my wifi and bluetooth devices as easily as in windows xp. Then, i came across a video showing beryl on ubuntu. And hell, i was impressed! So, i followed the instructions on the forums on how to get that working and within 30 minutes i got an environment which outruns windows vista and mac osx features! Its so sleek and beautiful, i have even got some windows enthusiasts wanting to install ubuntu on their pc just for the nice effects! ;-) And yeah, i forgot to mention that the added features hasn't slowed down my pc a bit and its not even using more memory, actually right now i have eclipse, firefox, konqueror and many other applications running and the memory usage is still at 534mb! So, just to say that microsoft is only providing crappy software to people and making you believe that hardware upgrade is necessary!

Anonymous 101:

I just want to say that this is getting out of hand on operating system, because I have ton of games for window xp. Now with Vista coming up, those games I have will no longer will be uses and a few did not get the chance to play. This is crazy. No wonder, I don't see anymore pc games for xp on shelf at walmart. Pathetic period.

Unknown_chatter:

Technically microsoft doesn't care about the public long as it rakes in the money.
I knew Windows XP would get phased out when Vista came out.
I know that companies here in where I live that they still run on XP.
They are strapped for cash, indeed. 10,000.00 just to upgrade new pcs alone. That's one company, before adding other costs, it would most defintely bankrupt them in few months times.
Let's be serious the minimum memory requirements for vista machines are 2GB regardless of the processor.
Not to forget a direct X 10 -- 256mb graphics card. Oh yeah, to operate Vista OS you need a beefy machine with beefy power sources, to prevent it from crashing from time to time.
That just for basic computer,
It's not practical if you think about it.
Microsoft should have catered to the users who use their products. And keep Window XP as optional operating system.
Im hoping bill gates is reading this. I know that it would bankrupt some small businesses.

Vikram:

I am ardent Open Source Enthusiast,fulltime Unix Administrator..I have used almost every windows version till date and worked on most of the unix or linux operating systems..Speaking from a layman point of view,the best in business is Windows XP ,Ubuntu,Macitosh and PCLinux 2007.Anything but,Vista!!I had horrendous time with Vista on my new laptop inspite of good hardware specs...It was complete bullshit in terms of usability,performance..All it had was eye candy...XP was lot better than that..So,I scrapped this vista completely from the drive,installed Ubuntu 7.10_Gutsy Gibbon,voila!it was truly out of the box..It detected everything just like that..Wasnt expecting it to be 100% out of the box..But,it did it!!It ook me 20minutes for installation..as u know linux distros come with most of the apps we use..so post tweaking or installation is almost negligible...Saved lot of time..My nvidia graphic card got detected like breeze,wifi was also breeze...no complaints..and ya ,its damn stable..another linux distro u can count on is PCLinux 2007..Its jsut awesome and a treat for a newbie to linux power user..Its damn stable and not at all memory hogging glutton like Vista...

JB:

I'm going to mention the home users perspective now. A lot of users I know are happy with XP, it does what they want. The problem with switching to Mac of Linux, is the lack of support for games. Many people would love to give them a shot, but don't want to give up their games. That is where your alternatives fall down, home users like to play games. Vista however is expensive to upgrade to, its not so much buying the OS, it is the fact that you also have to buy all the new software and hardware needed to get a good experience out of it. I think it will be better after a Service Pack upgrade or 2.

J. R. Sullivan:

Hey all you hackers out there!
Listen up to how much pain old Bill is puting his users through. Having to up grade everything to begin with is a major pain in the ass! Having to upgrade to an unreliable PITA OS is beyond bad. I just down loaded openoffice from Sun the other day and it is simply amazing what you can get for nothing. It was like going back to the old days of computing. People from all over the world working together to produce usable software at free to very resonable prices. I only changed to PC to begin with because all of the games were out on it.
So my suggestion is to hack the XP/XP PRO O.S. discs and disseminate them around the world. If you add 25% different content on it you can patent it flat out anyway! I say set the sails, open the gun ports and prepare to ram!

ML:

Get a Mac and stop bitching about Microsoft! No viruses and built for YOU, not what Microsaoft wants you to want. I got my first Mac a year ago and can't believe the ease of use and the adaptability of this little sucker. I'll never buy another Windows based computer again. I LOVE my MacBook!

foxman362:

Well,i know custom pc dudes will still have xp still
and no matter what as long programs does required such as games.But i'm not much fan for vista anyway becuase i only understand xp becuase i'm so use to xp ways but they still need another windows os runs like xp and vista with
same type but i like see another xp out there and alot people don't understand vista os very well it's very too odd and i know i have telk to my friends and alot them don't like vista becuase it's os the way it is and it's like old xp.I heard from one pc rumor at flea market i go to during summer months but somebody told me they going be another windows os in 2008 i don't know if it's true or not thats what i heard from pc seller dude told me while back during summer months.

DoLittle:

We are all idiots!

The PC to the average home user is just another appliance…. right?

When I got married in 1982 I bought a new Stove approx $450 a new frig around $250 and a set of new Maytag’s at a whopping $1000 bucks “that’s in 1982 dollars!” I was lucky I already had a TV, Stereo and a Bed. The stove and refrigerator are still in the kitchen the Maytag’s have raised two kids and are still working just fine. “To be fair, I did once did have to buy a $30 part-upgrade for the washer”

I bought my first PC at Best Buy in 1995 for around $1,100 “Pentium 133 with 16MB ram and a big 1 GB HD”. Since then I have bought or put together numerous machines keeping up with “what is needed”

The first digital camera I bought had to go, no drivers available when I switched from 98 to XP. That’s OK, one megapixel was hardly enough and spending another $300 about 20 months later seemed the thing to do. The expensive sound blaster gold card with the RCA jacks that plugged right into my 1970’s stereo…well it had to go too, since it was ISA buss. It now sits on the shelf next to the US Robotics hardware modem that went into the same obsolete buss. I think the revolution number9 video card is up there too. You get the point? During all this I have sat through “Windows Will Have To Restart Now “ countless times. If I had to turn my TV, Stove or Washer OFF and ON this much I’d still be watching Chevy Chase LIVE on Saturday Night, weigh a lot less and smell like shit.

We are idiots with way too much money to spend.

One last thought…. We have gone through numerous automatic drip coffee machines…are they in anyway connected to Intel or Microsoft?

Pol:

Problems reinstalling Windows XP when my motherboard needed replacing, ok perhaps not a Microsoft fault, however after paying for new motherboard and extra RAM then find not able to reinstall OEM version of Windows XP, but need purchase Vesta as XP not available...


Decided was time to consider Linux, three pc magazines each a version of Linux to see what it was like.

First version experienced problem connecting to internet, as NOT technical, tried another version, openSUSE worked great...

Can make some things easier (eg default installation with two users one Admin one child), however IT WAS EASY !

Easy it needs be to convert NOT technically minded, like self !

Well am now a happy Linux user, though happy Linux-Learner perhaps more accurate ;-)


Distribution: openSUSE 10.2 (i586) Gnome Release: 2.16.1 2006-11-28 (SUSE)

StusComputers:

I supply computer systems no os on customers request however i have purchased many copies of vista and as i am a builder i am responsible for the os and the support of the software i provide.

I advised someone to have vista home prem they upgraded to vista have a 3yr warrenty and they have the odd question how to and it is easily solved i would advise ayone who is going for Vista to BUY 32bit version the 3rd party doesn't support 64bit however the 32 bit works as perfect as win xp i personally am running vista business on my laptops and vista ultimate 64 on main machine that has hiccup but i will not supply any of my customers with 64bit versions as i have seen bugs however 32 bit versions seem fine may i also advise u windows vista is releasing the SP1 very shortly we OEM's are evaluating the SP1 software at this time.

i have found alot of things good with vista preferably to xp i dont however think much of the user having to press ok every few mins on installing this is due to a security feature easily disabled in vista and i have all my vista machines running and i am doing my best to find ways of crashing vista and it isnt as easy as xp is to crash.

i do remember everyone saying this when win95 come out then win 98 then 98se ME 2000 XP and now vista.

software has to be upgraded as vista supports bigger hard drives than xp and xp bigger than the prior etc etc and i would be the first to put a halt to installing vista hense why i have been trying out all versions to find faults and beable to support any faults i can create or find on my way.

Radiorat:

It's really easy guys.
Give micros$ft the toss completely and load Linux!
Free to download,stable and runs on older hardware easily.
Next to buying a Macintosh its the best option.
I run both Mac's and Linux, Fedora core 7 ,SuSe and Gentoo.
No windows software allowed here!
Micros$ft writes overblown,memory hungry buggy software .

After all, what is the definition of a virus?

Any operating system written by Micros$ft !

hughGray@bigpond.net.au:

Hi guys I saw the comment about dumb yanks and I am an Ozzie of Scot's decent,,
I have found the vast majority or the yanks as you call them to be quite bright.
mind you the president is a not too clever but everyone knows that. he even knows what he dont know he know duh!
And as for Aussie inventing everything timeout,guys forget the wright brothers in usa they were not the first flight check with the Smithsonian,,
Alexander Graham Bell the inventor of the phone flew a few weeks before but he did crash, and the Smithsonian even had the Bell plane on show with a plaque to say first flight for over 50 years. I personally came up with the Name i pod in fact had a company by that name: yes called i-Pod we could not make up our mind to call our internet pods just that or information pods I settled with i_Pod. and that was back in 1994. And even now the type of pod I designed and the marketing model is far in advance, in marketing and money making potential than any thing on the market now, it is almost enough to make me come out of retirement. I know that my concept is still ahead of the existing pods that you see at airports and shopping centers , And still could with an modest investment make tens of millions of dollars but now money is not as important to me anymore.
and as for vista ultimate. I have it or should I say I m in process of downgrading. it is **** XP Pro here I come back to you My friend....:)
Hugh C Gray Logan city Qld Australia..

Anonymou:

A friend of mine works as an IT tech and is in charge of making sure all his company's computers are up and running. He never gets laid. One reason is he's always updating the this and that latest computer OS. I still use OS 9 on my Mac because OSX sucks and the little dock is for whimps. I'm gonna keep on using XP because Vista is dumb. Computer companies are the biggest, most wasteful bunch. Yes..I really could care less about Microsoft's assembly lines. I'll be getting ass when all you geeks are buying new computers and OS's.

mightytech (New user):

Microsoft just plain ol' irks me.

(These are just my personal opinions and not the opinions of the masses.)

I don't like Microsoft and now I like them even less. The next PC I get will probably be an APPLE, and I will install Windows XP Pro on it with Virtual Software, such as VMWare.

I've worked on computers with the Windows Vista O/S, the O/S is slow, you can't control different aspects of the O/S that you can up through XP, such as the disk defragmenter, and it is a big time RAM HOG.

When I first reinstalled Vista O/S Home Premium, there was computer memory left over. After I installed the updates, the Vista O/S doesn't leave any "free" memory as it's younger sibling, Windows XP Home and Pro.

I don't like that the O/S takes up so much of the memory. I figure that with 2 gigs of ram, and no ability to upgrade to more memory in a laptop, as the system core grows increasingly larger with more updates, then the system will process decreasingly slower and slower over time.

Now the Virtual O/S software available for Vista and Windows XP Home and Pro allows one to install multiple O/S(s), such as prior Microsoft O/S and Unix/Linux.

The primary O/S will be Windows Vista (which ever version is installed) and the secondary, third or 4th O/S installed in Virtual PC mode will function "inside" of Windows Vista O/S.

Now how much memory do you think Windows Vista will need in order to install Virtual O/s Operating Systems, when supposedly 2 gigs of ram are the "minimum" Vista needs to function affectively.

Everything in Vista is "automatic," and Vista is difficult to understand with the newish interface Microsoft Developed. This Aero interface is for the "BIRDS," if you ask me.

Too much "STUFF" running on Vista all the time, Vista uses so many background services its impossible to control.

What i don't understand is why Microsoft decided that it had to make "so many different versions" of the same O/S.

(From my understanding) Most of the computers in the stores are only running the 32bit version of the Vista O/S, the computer hardware isn't at peak performance with the 64bit "dual core" processors. (From my understanding) the processors running only 32 bit Vista O/S are actually running 2 X 16bit channels through both processors. Which means that the "dual core 64 bit" processor isn't being used to the full capacity.

The consumer is not getting the "deal" they think they are, unless they spend the "extra" money to get the Vista Ultimate (64bit) version of the O/S, I believe that most consumers are unaware of this "bait and switch," performance of the computer manufacturers and Microsoft.

Now for Apple O/S X, (from my understanding) runs in either 32bit or 64bit mode, automatically, depending on the processor type. You don't have to purchase one of 4 or 5 versions of the Operating System from Apple in order to obtain the full use of the "Core 2Duo" functionality of the computer hardware.

Prior to the "Core 2Duo" "Dual Core 64bit Processors" there were only the "Dual Core Intel Processor iMacs" out on the market. These models are only dual 32bit processors. With the invent of the "Core 2Duo, Dual Core Processors" for Mac, the processors, as I understand it, are using the 64bit version of the Mac O/S X, there for getting full hardware usage at all times.

I think that Apple Computers and their O/S X Versions prove that a software company doesn't have to have multiple Versions of the "same O/S," in order to have it a function correctly on the hardware.

Grant it there are different Versions of O/S X, however they all,(from my personal experience,) seem to function with fewer problems than any of the Microsoft O/S Versions.

This is just my personal opinion, not the opinion of the masses!!

jonno112 (New user):

I'm Starting to look at MAC and Linux If i need to learn something new then why not completely change platforms.

I just setup a system and MYOB (unless you have the latest version) doesn't work with vista. What a struggle trying to find an oem version of XP pro. I had to buy a network card as well to cover the seller.

Vista Thumbs down

timmy (New user):

please dont phase out the xp os there are still plenty of people that does not like the vista os.



thank you timmy corbin

si mi lan jiao (New user):

Keep this up and PC users will have no choice but to switch to a mac. I did...

si mi lan jiao (New user):

Good thing I got myself a windows XP home edition CD... Now this disc is treated like gold. And I'm running XP in a mac, so in your face microsoft!

Don Williamson (New user):

What about senior low income people? Are we going to be forced to upgrade or will they leave us alone about our own XP?