XP still killing Vista in sales volume: HP

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

"Vista is dead" .......................... According to HP !
Won't have choice by Christmas for Win OS ! (here's where all the Linux fanboys jump in)

Jeff (User):

Quoting Me In Oz:
"Vista is dead" .......................... According to HP !


And you see it being alive? It is being killed by its predecessor XP and though that is being cutoff the new Windows is due out at the start of next year, which can't be worse than Vista, or people will really start running off to Mac OSX and Linux (and inside sources tell me that even in its early stages its better than Vista ;) )

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
(here's where all the Linux fanboys jump in)

That's odd? I certainly looked like where the PFY made another ill considered prediction.

XP will be about for business sale up and well after the release of Vista's successor. Any other decision would be commercial suicide.

Purchase paths are only mapped for those who are willing to be led.

CBR1100XX (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
Purchase paths are only mapped for those who are willing to be led.

You love your metaphors, Raindog !
We are all led by the megacorporations as consumers (of everything), unless of course, we live in a log cabin in the woods like you Raindog !

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting CBR1100XX:
We are all led by the megacorporations as consumer

Says the lad who chooses to nick name himself after a non descript japanese motorcyle, well I guess in your case it may hold true, but I don't think I am alone in having a enough clues not to have things dictated to me. Maybe you were a sheep in another life?


Quoting CBR1100XX:
unless of course, we live in a log cabin in the woods

Well rural retreats do have their advantages, it would be nice to spend more time there,but I'm very much in demand in the city, to solve the problems of stupid people and jumping fools. :>

CBR1100XX (Cornerstone member):

So you're now an experienced motorcyclist too ?
And as for your avatar/nickname ? ...... People who live in glasshouses .... :P

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting CBR1100XX:
People who live in glasshouses ..


moment before while you were muttering about metaphores you were certain I resided in a log cabin, not too sure of yourself are you CB?? Vista may well be for you.

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

Quoting Raindog:
moment before while you were muttering about metaphores

Seems to be the only form of communication !

CBR1100XX (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
moment before while you were muttering about metaphores

I used a metaphor so you would feel more comfortable, but obviously I have overestimated your wit !

adredz (New user):

Quoting Me In Oz:
(here's where all the Linux fanboys jump in)


so where are the Linux fanboys now? all i see is a bunch of bluffing MS monkeys!:)

CBR1100XX (Cornerstone member):

Quoting adredz:
so where are the Linux fanboys now?

At home trying to get Windows Apps to run under WINE ?

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting CBR1100XX:
At home trying to get Windows Apps to run under WINE


For someone so satiated by Vista you sure are spooked by Apple, XP and Linux. Could be your noisy stance far exceed your comfort level with this OS that you just like, but don't know why. :>

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

Quoting Raindog:
but don't know why.

Oh ! We know why !
We would rather dimwitted people find out for themselves, It's to their advantage in the long run :)

Halcon (Cornerstone member):

Microsoft knows that Vista is a failed product, they are wagging a lost battle for the operating system dominance.
Mac OS X and Linux are gaining more users, thought Linux is not at the same level of user friendliness as Windows XP, the Open Source people are working hard to break this barrier, I hope they will sooner or later.
Microsoft must know they can't slave their users with their arrogant conditions in the software license, today many people have more than one computer in home, if this is the case you the "end User" are blackmailed to buy the required amount of the same software for the amount of computers you have in home.
This does not come so cheap, that is why Open source gives you the freedom of choice to use and install in as many computers as you like without paying a cent, now try to get at least that in five PCs to use the Windows OS, the license is for 1 computer you have to buy 4 more copies of the same product off shelf and spend a fortune.
It's time to stop this kind of abuse, tell Microsoft enough is enough!

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Halcon:
It's time to stop this kind of abuse, tell Microsoft enough is enough!

Doesn't seem like the message is getting through with the MS share of the OS market at staggering levels of domination. This is not even taking into account their share of the Apps, Hardware and Console sectors :)

techdribble (User):

wait and upgrade to mojave
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-9998336-56.html

CBR1100XX (Cornerstone member):

Quoting techdribble:
wait and upgrade to mojave
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-9998336-56.html

Hey Raindog !
Tell us the truth ...... you were one of the surveyed, weren't you ? LOL

CBR1100XX (Cornerstone member):

Go on Raindog ..... Admit you were one of the ones surveyed LOL

BTW ! Great post techdribble !

Tin (Cornerstone member):

The best advertisement for Linux/MacOSX/WinXP has been Vista. Nothing else has had such an extreme effect.

Aubrey (Advanced member):

(here's where all the Linux fanboys jump in)

Sorry, I was just out recompiling my kernel. Um, yeah, linux rocks! go linux! um, yeah.

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Aubrey:
Sorry, I was just out recompiling my kernel. Um, yeah, linux rocks! go linux! um, yeah

Aubrey ! .... That's genuinely funny LOL :)

Halcon (Cornerstone member):

Raindog said "XP will be about for business sale up... any other decision would be commercial suicide".
You are right fella, most business prefer Windows XP Professional, because is more robust and fastest than that flash trash of Vista!
Moreover, Microsoft lost their vision, they need eye drops to see what is happening now, everyone is trying to flee to another OS, business suffer same problem as the end users, this is related to the cost of the software in itself, a real pain in the ass.
Tin said "The best advertisement for Linux/MacOSX/WinXP has been Vista. Nothing else has had such an extreme effect".
Best advertisement??? How about the gross arrogant clauses Microsoft put in their EULA, some people without computing experience would be shocked to be treated like scum if they do not accept such evil conditions.
People that work for Microsoft are faceless criminals with license, trying to impose unrealistic conditions upon its users; the users like it or not have to accept these prerogatives against their will as if these users were meek lambs ready to be sacrificed just for the so called "right to innovation".
Right now, there is a lot of toe suckers worshiping the Microsoft God, thinking these bastards will receive an interesting reward from the juggernaut.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Halcon:
most business prefer Windows XP Professional, because is more robust and fastest than that flash trash of Vista

Well not exactly, most businesses don't exist for the purposes of running and upgrading Microsoft software. Business preference for XP in general is because a lot of investment has been expended in establishing those windows environments. Migration to any different OS has a lot of cost associated and those costs need offer substantial benefits to be worthwhile. At a desktop level what Vista presents is essentially a sideways or back step.
Moreover MS has been hell bent on thrusting Vista upon the marketplace, and demanding the upgrade cost be absorbed. It is this MS arrogance, the forced redundancy, the massive over pricing, the refusal to listen to customers, and the extortive licensing that has end users considering alternatives to Windows OS.

The fanboys can get all exited about ribbon interfaces, some new pop-up annoyance, or just any change at all as motivation to incur huge hardware and software and time expenses of an upgrade cycle but in the real world PCs are tools for communication, for producing documents, running spreadsheet, building databases, and all the guff added to successive windows releases has done little to improve how PC achieve these tasks.

There is no particular love for XP and most have caught on that it offered very little over W2K and a move to XP created considerable pain for whatever upgrade gain it delivered. It is only those that use their PCs as toys and not tools that see another forced migration (Vista) as worthwhile.

MS have held a majority market share with Windows and with DOS before it for two decades, that was due to them offering the best cost/feature/ease of use compromise to the largest volume of users. The competitors have all improved their offerings considerable while Windows upgrades (well MS see them as upgrades) are becoming less for more with each new iteration.

Most users are not fleeing windows for other operating systems they are being pushed that way! A favour for XP represents the inertia, that has in reality delivered most users remaining comfortable with a windows environment despite its many flaws. But ignore or cost affect that comfortable user base, lock them out of updates, or force them into an unwanted upgrade cycle in a direction they do not wish to travel and then other OSs have become very real alternatives for many who would not have contemplated a move.

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

What a load of Anti-MS diatribe.
Time for those Imodium tablets, Raindog ... It's coming out both ends !

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
What a load of Anti-MS diatribe

well there's your random opinion. Where is the rationale, facts, back-up, reasoning etc to prove it's anything more than the stupid unfounded opinion of a fan boy? If you have nothing to add can you do it quietly? :>

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

Quoting Raindog:
Where is the rationale,

Check out your previous posting efforts for a rationale !

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Don't waste the wear and tear on your keyboard on this guy. I get the feeling he may be a stooge on the APC payroll to bolster the news comments section ;)

Tin (Cornerstone member):

Wow. That's insightful. Why didn't you just say "Raindog's mum" and save some typing?

The reality is how Raindog has said it... Businesses (which comprise something like 90% of computer purchasers) simply don't want to stuff around with Vista. And those that are putting effort into looking at switching are also looking at other options which might save them money.

You can name call and try to tell people things all you want, but the REALITY is that Vista is pushing the big buyers away from MS.

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Tin !
Do you honestly believe that MS has released Vista so it would drive away customers ? ......... If you do then shall I sign off with "Tin's mum"

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Tin:
(which comprise something like 90% of computer purchasers)
Where did this figure come from ?
We sell and maintain computers here in the South of Brisbane, Qld and let me tell you that only about 20% of our customers are businesses. A business will purchase pc's and keep them for a relatively long time. We have some still using Win95 for POS etc. Whereas home customers are regularly upgrading systems and hardware !

Tin (Cornerstone member):

Is your business Dell, HP, IBM or some other massive vendor? No.
The companies and government departments that order in batches of 100+ wouldn't even look at your shop.

As for where the number comes from, I don't know. It may not be that high, but it's certainly much higher than the home users Vista is aimed at.

And no, I don't really think MS wanted to drive people away. I think they truly considered Vista to be an improvement, but they aren't listening to the people who are pointing out flaws, issues and bad design. And that's not helping anyone.

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Tin:
As for where the number comes from, I don't know.
Jesus ! Don't let Raindog get hold of this ;)

Seriously, we are not a massive dealer. But we don't just sell pc's, we also maintain them and have a good idea of the cross section of users and purchasers out in the real world. We have about 200 businesses on our books and not one runs Mac, about a dozen run Linux (some form or other) and the rest Win, of which Vista is about 10%. We have warned the rest of the Win brigade about XP's imminent departure as we did when 95 and 98 (yet we still maintain them ... go figure) ended.

You are right about the MS PR department though. That is the area in which they should work at !

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
Where did this figure come from ?

What basis do you have to refute this figure?


Quoting Me In Oz:
We sell and maintain computers here in the South of Brisbane, Qld and let me tell you that only about 20% of our customers are businesses.

Well that is conclusive isn't it.


Quoting Me In Oz:
A business will purchase pc's and keep them for a relatively long time.

Some business users may. Many household users still run Win9x, I'm sure there is some out there somewhere still trying to connect his Vic20 to the Internet. What is your point?


Quoting Me In Oz:
Whereas home customers are regularly upgrading systems and hardware !

And you can provide basis for these claims? Using you current method of data gathering it would also be correct to assume that 98% if PC purchasers had acne. :>

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
What basis do you have to refute this figure?

You can refute my facts with your ........ what ?

A small random sampling in a population can be very indicative of the population in general ........ or was Stats101 not one of your strong subjects ?

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
You can refute my facts with your ........ what ?

What facts? Your confusing my pointing out of holes in your assumptions with a dispute of fact.


Quoting Me In Oz:
A small random sampling in a population can be very indicative of the population in general .

Or it can, as is, in this case be absolute bunkum!!

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

Quoting Raindog:
Or it can, as is, in this case be absolute bunkum!!

.... According to Raindog, so it must be true :P
Me in Oz has stated what he does with a valid foundation for his claims.
We have yet to ascertain what is it that makes you such an expert to be able to refute everyone elses claims !
You hide behind you anonimity in cyberspace where you are a legend in your own luch box !
But you know what ? As Homer Simpson says "Let the baby have his bottle" ...... It is obviously the only highlight in your day LOL

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
... According to Raindog, so it must be true

You really are beginning to get with the program.


Quoting Your Average Joe:
with a valid foundation for his claims.

if it looks like random observation and it smells like random observation. then it must be?


Quoting Your Average Joe:
We have yet to ascertain what is it that makes you such an expert to be able to refute everyone else's claims !

you'll catch on. Why are you afraid of any claims being questioned? a little insecure perhaps? A little unsure on the subject?
The first thing they should have taught you in High School science is that nothing is ever totally proven but that anything can possibly be disproved. Why should I compensate for your insecurity of resolve?


Quoting Your Average Joe:
You hide behind you

I hide behind nothing! I say what I think and I don't march to the beat of any particular organisation. I don't need a gang, or a corporation to have my opinions for me. That's what you cannot cope will.
Quoting Your Average Joe:
But you know what ?

No? but you think you are going to enlighten me? Do you?


Quoting Your Average Joe:
As Homer Simpson says

A cartoon role model, is that your best? Education by television, come and see the results of such neglect first hand.

It's not that hard determine who are the fanboys, and as much as it irks you I have no desire to divulge details of my business with spotted and posturing herberts the likes of you.

If you choose to disagree with me that's fine, you are more than entitled to be wrong whenever you wish, but if you wish to denigrate a discussion with fanboy chants and name calling don't complain about being mocked or ignored by me or anyone else with even half a clue. :>
Quoting Your Average Joe:
. It is obviously the only highlight in your day LOL

highlight no, you are way of beam again, but watching people make fools of themselves through ignorance does offer the odd millisecond of perverse enjoyment.

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
and as much as it irks you I have no desire to divulge details of my business

You flatter yourself. I'm sure it will irk no one !
And as for your deluded Superman syndrome ? ..... We would all rather like to think of you as the nerdy Clark Kent ... LOL

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

Repost:
Drawn from the DX11 thread.
For anyone interested in a good laugh, Raindog seems to think he is a one man development team, and I have asked for his business cred (highly doubtful he will submit it) ....
And the web address is ..... so we all can visit the great Raindog at work ? Or as I suspect you're a frustrated coder in the basement of a 2 bit development house earning $35,000 a year ? ...... Please correct me if I'm wrong with some proof, not just more quotations drawn from the book on your desk !


Quoting Raindog:
cynical an untrusting marketplace?

I don't think it's the marketplace that is cynical and untrustworthy !

You really do sound like an angry man ! Time for a valium and chill because it's not all about you Raindog.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
and I have asked for

Ask all you like



Quoting Your Average Joe:
highly doubtful he will submit it

well there you go, amidst a whole day of stupid you actually got something right...


Quoting Your Average Joe:
so we all can visit the great Raindog at work ?


Not without an order number you wont... paying customers only. Oh and if you wouldn't mind its "The Great" not "the great" when referring to Raindog. OK?

Quoting Your Average Joe:
Or as I suspect you're a

I knew it was too good to be true, there you you've slunk back to guesses and wild predictions already.


Quoting Your Average Joe:
Please correct me if I'm wrong

Oh I'll do that, but it's a lot of hard work given your almost never right.


Quoting Your Average Joe:
You really do sound like an angry man !

Why would I be angry, I know you cannot help it, you just don't have the intellect for rational debate..


Quoting Your Average Joe:
it's not all about you

I'm glad you can see that, I'd rather not be the focus of all your adoration, that is just way creepy. To have you taking the time to read my every post you sure must be in awe. Are you sure you haven't confused a forum with one of you lame RPGs, perhaps you think I'm batman?

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
To have you taking the time to read my every post

We all need the comedic relief ... LOL




Quoting Raindog:
think I'm batman?

No ! The nerdy Clark Kent !

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
We would all rather like to think

That's good I would like you all to take time out to actually think. Give it a go anyway, you may even enjoy doing it. :>

Your Average Joe (Senior member):

Quoting Raindog:
That's good I would like you all to take time out to actually think.

We did ! We all THINK you're are a nerdy anti-MS geek with nothing to add but semantics ......... oh ! and quotes :)

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

This guy is a crack up. I've sent the thread to all the guys here and it really is an early morning pick me up while the coffee is hot ! It would be a light hearted stoush if he didn't seriously think he was right and everyone else was wrong ..... hee hee
Pass it around to your colleagues. I haven't seen anyone this ignorant and inept before !

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Me In Oz:
if he didn't seriously think he was right

I dont think I am right, I know, are you to stupid to get it?


Quoting Me In Oz:
and everyone else was wrong

No not everyone else, just you ignorant (and noisy) fan-boys!

Me In Oz (Cornerstone member):

Craig using Me In Oz login:

Quoting Raindog:
I dont think I am right, I know,
............. OPINION !

metawork (User):

Yep, this is what i was looking into.70-649

CBR1100XX (Cornerstone member):

Quoting Raindog:
What facts? Your confusing my pointing out of holes in your assumptions with a dispute of fact.

I've yet seen anything you have posted as fact ..... all anti-ms BS !

Quoting Raindog:
Or it can, as is, in this case be absolute bunkum!!

You really are the population's lowest common denominator, Raindog !
Would you like me to elaborate ? .... Just in case you failed algebra101 too ... LOL

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Tin:
Businesses (which comprise something like 90% of computer purchasers) simply don't want to stuff around with Vista.

I'd happily migrate systems to Vista if I could see a worthwhile reason to do so. But no matter how I do the sums it doesn't weigh up. There are some good tools at the admin level but that'd be a hard sell to customers and still wouldn't outweigh the hassles introduced.

A major rework of windows code and yet it is still unable to accept connection to more then one domain. There are lots of areas windows code could be refined cheaply to produce genuine improvements but they have not happened after successive upgrade cycles. I've yet to see one compelling reason why a Vista migration warrant the hassle.

Quoting Me In Oz:
I get the feeling he may be a stooge on the APC payroll to bolster the news comments section

No not on the payroll, and I sure some there would be concerned at the suggestion. I am fully independent, however if you wish to contribute cash donations I am sure APC could forward these as appropriate.

Raindog (Senior Forumologist):

Quoting Your Average Joe:
Check out your previous posting efforts for a rationale !

But that was not your rationale. Scroll through your Vista menus and look for one that says "Structured and reasoned argument" click on that.

You are attempting to peddle a pro vista arguement, and yet you and the other happy clickers appear unable to mutter ever a single reason why. HP's data is staring you in the face and you can be sure results at Dell are very similar. MS will be claiming all those box sales as Vista numbers but ther are only kidding themselves. And the "it's good coz I said and it runs on my box, so there set" are being had over by everyone.